Best Zelda game ever (poll)

[Sheikah]

Just like your post, my post and everyone else's here, many people love MM (Like me) but there were many flaws in the game, it's not picture perfect like everyone says it to be...just like eeeeeevery game out there.

 

No one said it's perfect (your words). Just better than all the other Zelda games (IMO). Twilight Princess offered nothing new or original, so I really don't see how people can think it's the best of the lot.

 

It's true that it's more of a thing to keep people who liked the other Zelda games more happy, N-europe members seem to love MM to death and will defend the game to death if anyone talks anything bad about it.

 

Now that's just not true. When I see a bullshit article I'll argue against it, as it's basically trying to smear what is an amazing game. And I'd do that with any shoddily-written article I saw, too.

Edited December 23, 2009 by Sheikah

[mcj metroid]

I actually don't really agree with any of his points. Everything added a sense of stretegy to it and i'm not being blind here. I usually hate timelimits in games.

 

The save one I might sympatise with but again you have to lay out your time. MM is a difficult game probably one of the hardest zelda titles.

 

Also I don't understand the graphics complaint above. Bar the reused models the graphics were WAY better than in OOT at least with the expansion pack.

 

OOT relyed on 2d backgrounds quite a bit and MM felt full 3d.

[Fused King]

No one said it's perfect (your words). Just better than all the other Zelda games (IMO). Twilight Princess offered nothing new or original, so I really don't see how people can think it's the best of the lot.

 

You sir, need to define 'new' and 'original', otherwise it is an untrue statement.

[Sheikah]

You sir, need to define 'new' and 'original', otherwise it is an untrue statement.

 

I don't need to define it; the statement stands up by itself. In terms of 3D main title Zelda games, TP had nothing important that was new or original. OoT had the 3D perspective and complete overhaul of how the dungeons therefore were designed and how certain equipment could be used. MM had the time system which impacted the entire game. WW focussed greatly on exploration and you could argue that the presentation itself was very different. TP...was an OoT fanboy-appeasing title (read: Adult Link) that, however good the core gameplay was, presented very little in the way of original additions. Sure, it's fun and playable, but then again Zelda games are. It just didn't present anything to surprise long-term Zelda players.

[Grazza]

Regarding the article about Majora's Mask, I just wanted to say that re-using the Ocarina of Time engine and character models was a very sensible thing to do. Here you had probably the most popular game ever, so it was a stroke of genius to get another game that felt the same out the door whilst the N64 was still a viable platform.

 

I don't want to bash Twilight Princess again, but if you look at games whose development spans multiple platforms (eg. Kameo, Too Human and Twilight Princess), the reception tends not to be so good, as they keep getting re-shaped to suit different consoles.

 

The only thing in the Majora's Mask article I slightly agreed about was the time limit. Don't get me wrong, I loved the 3-day aspect, but I didn't think the 4th dungeon fitted into the actual time limit that well.

[darksnowman]

I really liked the way they re-used the character models, tbh. Rather than cheapen the game, for me it just made everything all the more surreal- which was the effect they were aiming for.

[Fused King]

I don't need to define it; the statement stands up by itself. In terms of 3D main title Zelda games, TP had nothing important that was new or original. OoT had the 3D perspective and complete overhaul of how the dungeons therefore were designed and how certain equipment could be used. MM had the time system which impacted the entire game. WW focussed greatly on exploration and you could argue that the presentation itself was very different. TP...was an OoT fanboy-appeasing title (read: Adult Link) that, however good the core gameplay was, presented very little in the way of original additions. Sure, it's fun and playable, but then again Zelda games are. It just didn't present anything to surprise long-term Zelda players.

 

And yet you do define it now and I understand your statement.

 

I could've easily put foreward Midna, the Wolf, the Iceman or the Twilight Realm and certain other characters or places, but since you mean 'no surprises for longterm Zelda players' I see your point.

 

Still, I am a longterm Zelda player and it surprised me quite a lot:laughing:

(Especially Ooccoo, what the fuck is up with that, .....)

[Sheikah]

And yet you do define it now and I understand your statement.

 

I could've easily put foreward Midna, the Wolf, the Iceman or the Twilight Realm and certain other characters or places, but since you mean 'no surprises for longterm Zelda players' I see your point.

 

Still, I am a longterm Zelda player and it surprised me quite a lot:laughing:

(Especially Ooccoo, what the fuck is up with that, .....)

 

Twilight Zone... have you played LTTP? There's an alternate dimension there, too. Not that it really offers much more to the gameplay, as they're just relatively short sections. Contrast this to the time system in MM, where it governs everything.

 

If you want to look at it a different way, the wolf sections are just Link with a different set of tools at his disposal. It's a bit like Young Link in OoT, but using the wolf's attacks and senses rather than shoddy equipment.

Edited December 23, 2009 by Sheikah

[Lens of Truth]

At the end of the day all the Zelda games (bar the obvious) are of such a high quality that picking between them comes down to which meant to most to you on a personal subjective level, which one had the most ‘magic’. I can quite understand why many feel that Majora’s Mask has that special something because it’s so unique.

 

My own reasons for thinking it’s NOT the best game:

- As I said before, graphics and art are hit and miss, sometimes venturing into hideous ‘no-frills’ territory.

- The music likewise contains some gems, some recycled tracks and some downright stinkers. [Many will disagree with this as I know a lot whinged for the lack of (obvious) Overworld theme in OOT, but the Termina Field music is a dreadfully monotonous setting of the famous tune, and considering Termina itself is an alternate reality/parallel universe kind thing, wouldn’t it have been more appropriate to ignore unimaginative fanboys and write something original, as was done with resounding success in WW? OOT was remarkable for the fact that it featured subtle variations and developments of previous themes - Hyrule Field being the most elaborate - and the music in general coheres beautifully.. It’s not considered Koji Kondo’s magnum opus for nothing!]

- The save system is rather limiting and annoying.

- Constantly having to turn the clock back gets wearisome after a while and (subjectivism alert) took me out of the world/experience/magic. If it had been handled in a less perfunctory way that might not have been a problem. To sum up, I think the game is hamstrung by the very thing that gives it its original structure.

 

The ‘minor quibbles’ defense is invalid as I see it because that’s about all there is separating these masterpieces.

[Jonnas]

Twilight Zone... have you played LTTP? There's an alternate dimension there, too. Not that it really offers much more to the gameplay, as they're just relatively short sections. Contrast this to the time system in MM, where it governs everything.

 

People often compare the Twilight Realm with the Dark World in LttP, but they're not the same thing. The Dark World was a dark version of the normal overworld (that is, a different part of the game world), while the Twilight Realm is just part of the plot. You don't switch between the two or anything, and the Twilight realm doesn't have anything that the normal world lacks.

 

That said, I think that, aside from Wolf Link, Fused King was talking from a world/plot/story perspective.

 

Personally, I think TP had a few nice ideas, but none of them really took full steam, which is a shame.

 

As for the OoT vs. MM debate, I find those minor quibbles unimportant.

Several things make MM unique, and debating wether it's better than OoT or not is pointless. They have to played with different mindsets, as one possesses what the other one lacks. They complement each other.

[Ronnie]

As for the OoT vs. MM debate (...) debating wether it's better than OoT or not is pointless. They have to played with different mindsets, as one possesses what the other one lacks. They complement each other.

 

Well said .

[SPAMBOT4000]

I think what makes Majora's Mask so amazing above all else is the atmosphere. It's literally seeping with it. As I've said before, just getting to know what all the characters are doing and thinking as the world is about to end is insightful and heartbreaking. And that 'end is nigh' atmosphere spreads across the entire map, not just a select few areas. I see people complaining about MM's dungeons and their amount but they're missing the point. The dungeons and such are the side quests in that game, they're not the main attraction at all. As a work of interactive fiction, the game is incredible.

 

Never before in a videogame have I felt my actions really mattered as much as they do in this. You can actually witness the destruction of the entire world over and over again and that future will be set in stone if you don't take action. Nearly any other game waits for you to reach its end before the evil baddie's master plan really comes into full force. Okay, you can die throughout but if you just stand there and do nothing? - So what? Presumably the evil master sits down with a cup of tea waiting for your arrival. But in MM, the end of the world happens even if you stand in Termina Field and do nothing. It just makes the danger all the more real and immersive.

 

As a comparison, Twilight Princess was really lacking in atmosphere. Hyrule Town might have been bustling with people but it felt dead and empty as you couldn't talk or listen to the majority of its citizens. There's never any real immediate danger on a wide scale. Death is never knocking on the door, he's wheezing halfway down the street.

 

I find it funny when people say TP is the darkest Zelda yet. It's not. I just assume they haven't spoken to the citizens of Termina just before their entire world comes to an end.

 

Majora's Mask is the darkest Zelda by far.

[MoogleViper]

As a comparison, Twilight Princess was really lacking in atmosphere. Hyrule Town might have been bustling with people but it felt dead and empty as you couldn't talk or listen to the majority of its citizens. There's never any real immediate danger on a wide scale. Death is never knocking on the door, he's wheezing halfway down the street.

 

I wouldn't say it was lacking in atmosphere, just had a different one. By your logic SOTC had little to no atmosphere.

[SPAMBOT4000]

I wouldn't say it was lacking in atmosphere, just had a different one. By your logic SOTC had little to no atmosphere.

 

No. I didn't list every reason why I think Twilight Princess lacks atmosphere. Just a couple. I've never actually played SOTC but from what I gather the isolation and the open, empty landscapes are the whole point of the game and contribute to its atmosphere.

 

In TP, Hyrule Town for example is SUPPOSED to be a bustling city but it doesn't FEEL like one. SOTC is SUPPOSED to feel open and empty. That's how the gameplay and story were designed. There's MEANT to be the feel of an overwhelming threat in TP whereas in SOTC (from what I've read and that's a lot) you're not MEANT to feel like that at all.

 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed TP's gameplay as a whole. I just don't think the storytelling side was up to much (and that's not just the basic plot but how it's handled, the atmosphere of the game etc..) and these days in games, that's half the experience.

Edited December 24, 2009 by SPAMBOT4000

[Sheikah]

People often compare the Twilight Realm with the Dark World in LttP, but they're not the same thing. The Dark World was a dark version of the normal overworld (that is, a different part of the game world), while the Twilight Realm is just part of the plot. You don't switch between the two or anything, and the Twilight realm doesn't have anything that the normal world lacks.

 

Obviously the content and application varies, but the basic thing has been done before. Switching between a light and dark dimension for the purpose of progressing...all I'm saying is that it wasn't original and didn't define the game either.

[Jonnas]

@Spambot: You're correct. In SOTC, you are supposed to feel like you're the only person around (and you do). What you say about Hyrule Castle Town in TP is pretty much what I feel about it, too.

 

Obviously the content and application varies, but the basic thing has been done before. Switching between a light and dark dimension for the purpose of progressing...all I'm saying is that it wasn't original and didn't define the game either.

 

It's still the same thing in name only.

Gameplay-wise, it's not the same thing, as you don't switch in and out at your will and there're no important differences between the two.

Plot-wise, it is also different, as there is not a parallel "Twilight Hyrule". It's a different place altogether.

 

IMO, Metroid Prime 2, Ocarina of Time and the Oracle games are more similar to the concept, gameplay-wise.

[Ronnie]

I think what makes Majora's Mask so amazing above all else is the atmosphere. It's literally seeping with it. As I've said before, just getting to know what all the characters are doing and thinking as the world is about to end is insightful and heartbreaking. And that 'end is nigh' atmosphere spreads across the entire map, not just a select few areas. I see people complaining about MM's dungeons and their amount but they're missing the point. The dungeons and such are the side quests in that game, they're not the main attraction at all. As a work of interactive fiction, the game is incredible.

 

Never before in a videogame have I felt my actions really mattered as much as they do in this. You can actually witness the destruction of the entire world over and over again and that future will be set in stone if you don't take action. Nearly any other game waits for you to reach its end before the evil baddie's master plan really comes into full force. Okay, you can die throughout but if you just stand there and do nothing? - So what? Presumably the evil master sits down with a cup of tea waiting for your arrival. But in MM, the end of the world happens even if you stand in Termina Field and do nothing. It just makes the danger all the more real and immersive.

 

As a comparison, Twilight Princess was really lacking in atmosphere. Hyrule Town might have been bustling with people but it felt dead and empty as you couldn't talk or listen to the majority of its citizens. There's never any real immediate danger on a wide scale. Death is never knocking on the door, he's wheezing halfway down the street.

 

I find it funny when people say TP is the darkest Zelda yet. It's not. I just assume they haven't spoken to the citizens of Termina just before their entire world comes to an end.

 

Majora's Mask is the darkest Zelda by far.

 

Great post, particularly the bit in bold. With OOT, the huge transformation to Hyrule over the 7 year period gave you a good sense of impending destruction, even if it wasn't as literal or obvious as in MM. With WW, Ganondorf's plans were a bit different, so you can excuse the Great Sea from seeming quite detached. His mission wasn't to take over and destroy the world, at least not at first, it was to capture Tetra/Zelda.

 

One of the MAJOR failings of TP was that once the twilight disappeared, you were left wondering just what was Ganon/Zant's plan. You minced around from dungeon to dungeon, no sense of impending doom, no real sense that the citizens cared or knew that anything was wrong. You just had Ganon, who'd never even heard or met Link before the end, sitting in his chair, waiting. Not great.

 

That would be why most people see TP's second half as weak, compared to the first half of the game and the rest of the 3D Zeldas.

[Sheikah]

 

 

It's still the same thing in name only.

 

It isn't though. It's pretty much the same concept; switching between a light and dark world, with there being large differences from normal gameplay in the dark world. Obviously the game mechanics regarding it (can you get there any time you want, how does it relate to the story) will differ, because it's a different game altogether. I'd be utterly shocked if the mechanics behind the two were the same, or if it related to the story in the same way in both, but no one suggested that. However, it doesn't change the fact that it isn't a new concept unlike the time system in MM.

 

Also, take into consideration another striking similarity. When Link enters the Twilight realm, he becomes a wolf. In LTTP, he becomes a rabbit. It's something else that makes you feel 'hey, something like this has been before'.

Edited December 27, 2009 by Sheikah

[Fused King]

So can we draw a conclusion?

[mcj metroid]

Yep Oot is most peoples top pick whereas overall Majora's mask has appeared in the most top 3 lists I think.

[Sheikah]

OoT is the FFVII, AKA the most popular, of the series. With MM being the FFVIII that can ultimately be a richer experience should you choose to take everything it has on board.

[Fused King]

OoT is the FFVII, AKA the most popular, of the series. With MM being the FFVIII that can ultimately be a richer experience should you choose to take everything it has on board.

 

How dare you soil this thread with FF references:laughing:

[EEVILMURRAY]

OoT is the FFVII, AKA the most popular, of the series. With MM being the FFVIII that can ultimately be a richer experience should you choose to take everything it has on board.

Where as Link To The Past is Final Fantasy IV, the best out of them all which everyone has forgotten about

[Deathborn]

OoT is the FFVII, AKA the most popular, of the series. With MM being the FFVIII that can ultimately be a richer experience should you choose to take everything it has on board.

 

FFVIII is more like the Wand of Gamelon of FF to me. (Seriously, don't compare it to MM...)

[Sheikah]

FFVIII is more like the Wand of Gamelon of FF to me. (Seriously, don't compare it to MM...)

I only wouldn't compare it to MM because FFVIII is the best game ever made. :p

Where as Link To The Past is Final Fantasy IV, the best out of them all which everyone has forgotten about

 

That would be a miracle, given it just got re-released in 3D for DS. Maybe it's just not held in such a high regard?