Wii General Discussion

[Retro_Link]

I don't think it would change many things if a HD Wii suddenly came onto the market. Leave this for next generation.

The Wii has a chance at getting a larger hardcore audience back because chances are it's lifespan will be alot shorter than that of the PS3/360.

 

So if Nintendo release Wii 2 (HD), in say 2 years, people will rush out and buy it because it's Nintendo's next console (despite perhaps being what the Wii should have been in the first place), and then it will back on a more level playing field.

 

But maybe the Wii 2 will need to push itself further than the capabilities of the current HD consoles, in order to attract people back to it, because otherwise what will the draw be?... I guess perhaps Nintendo will need another innovation.

 

Nintendo's choice to choose innovation over graphics may have hurt it in the long run, because whilst innovation has won it the casual audience and it's sales success, it's lack of graphical power seems to have lost it a good percentage of harcore audience (judging by sales of 3rd party titles)... and without them, 3rd party support is just going to get fewer and far between.

[darksnowman]

It must have helped that Heavy rain has sex in it.

 

I didn't know that. Well they do say that sex sells, don't they.

 

That particular moon doesn't have a demonic face and, to our knowledge, an urge to break free from its orbit and destroy Hyrule.

 

Well like... sure that was all down to Majora's Mask being a tad psycho, it wasn't that the moon had a desire of its own. I thought you knew everything there was to know about MM? Looks like you've forgotten your roots!

[Fierce_LiNk]

The Wii needed to be SD and cheap to begin with. If it tried matching Sony and MS it would have bombed like the gamecube, it needed to be cheap etc. It worked and is stupidly succesful, but "proper" games don't sell very wlel on it; and that's because "proper" gamers want HD. Simple. I know so many people, people on here say the same thing; they want their games to look as good as they can. To be taken seriously.

 

I'm not saying I agree with this; I'm saying as far as I can see, this is simply the case. If a Wii HD came out equal power to the PS3, then hardcore games would sell infinitely better on it.

 

I disagree with the "proper gamers" want HD comment. I think most gamers just want quality experiences, whether or not that comes with HD or not doesn't matter. I think a more robust online system matters to more people than HD does. The visuals do matter, but I don't think it'll neccessarily win back all these gamers like you think it will.

 

 

Nintendo's choice to choose innovation over graphics may have hurt it in the long run, because whilst innovation has won it the casual audience and it's sales success, it's lack of graphical power seems to have lost it a good percentage of harcore audience (judging by sales of 3rd party titles)... and without them, 3rd party support is just going to get fewer and far between.

 

Just going to point out that third parties on this Nintendo system are actually thriving when compared to the Cube, and even more so than the 64. The 64 alienated a lot of developers. The Cube was better, but compared to the PS2 and the Xbox, it was lagging. The Wii is doing well with many third parties. In fact, didn't someone recently say that two thirds of Wii's million sellers were third party games? But, the issue is that these types of games are not the ones we particularly want to see. I personally want to see Dead Space sell more than Mad Horse Trainerz or something.

 

The Wii has a certain image. In fact, so do Nintendo. They're family friendly. Remember all of those Kiddy arguments from last generation and the one before? The counter to that from Nintendo's competitors is that they are providing a different image. The perception of a console is really important. Maybe thats why party games are always seen on Wii shelves whereas other perhaps more deserving games are not. They're not expected to sell. How can a first person shooter sell on a party games console? That sort of thing. Its an image problem, partly.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Fierce_LiNk

[david.dakota]

Heavy Rain is not just a well marketed product - its an exceptional one too, lets not forget that. Incidently, while the hype helps, I dare say that the casual audience* of PS3 (assuming they can get their PS3s working this week) will buy into the game, but be dispointed by it.

 

Now, I'm a huge, self confessed Nintendo fanboy, but you can't escape the fact that developers fail to put ambitious product onto Wii; its been a cashcow for 3 years (and now that cow has come back and bit them in the ass). When publishers do put some quality product on the machine, its dumped on the market and left to rot (Konami, I'm looking your way).

 

Truly, I can't see that there is anything on Wii thats comparable to Heavy Rain; nothing thats telling such a strong story, in such a creative, imaginative way. But arguably, this type of game (from what i've seen) could work brilliantly Wii; skip the HD visuals and it'd work a treat.

 

* By casual, I mean the audience that just follow the hype

[Emasher]

In all honesty, I doubt it would have costed that much more to add HD capabilities to the Wii. Just to render games in 720p wouldn't have been as huge a jump as people think. There were actually games on the original XBOX that rendered in 720p, and even the odd one that did 1080i. I wouldn't be surprised if some of these games that look like the could have run on the PS2 (Not to mention the ones that were actually ported from the PS2) would run fine on the Wii rendered in 720p, had the games been optimized for the console a little better. The Wii is approximately as powerful as the original XBOX actually.

 

As for Heavy Rain, its not quite as niche on the PS3 as you may think. Traditionally more cinematic games tend to do well on the console. Look at MGS 4 as an example. For a lot of people, its perhaps not just about the gameplay, but the overall experience the title offers, and in reality, its not the same as the experience a lot of the more niche Wii games offer. There are very few if any cinematic games on the Wii.

[dazzybee]

When I say "proper" games, I do not actually mean what I (and clearly you) would call proper gamers. But there are a lot of gamers out there who want the tech powerful experience; and I really believe that Simply releasing a more powerful Wii HD that is backward compatible will really cater for this audience and work. In fact, I'll go as far as to say I think it's possibly the only way Nintendo has to get these gamers back on board.

 

As for Heavy Rain, its not quite as niche on the PS3 as you may think. Traditionally more cinematic games tend to do well on the console. Look at MGS 4 as an example. For a lot of people, its perhaps not just about the gameplay, but the overall experience the title offers, and in reality, its not the same as the experience a lot of the more niche Wii games offer. There are very few if any cinematic games on the Wii.

 

You can not use Metal Gear Solid 4 as an exmaple of cinematic games selling well. That's like saying side scrolling platformers sell really well on the Wii because of NSMB. These games are always going to sell, not because of their genre.

 

Now, I'm a huge, self confessed Nintendo fanboy, but you can't escape the fact that developers fail to put ambitious product onto Wii; its been a cashcow for 3 years (and now that cow has come back and bit them in the ass). When publishers do put some quality product on the machine, its dumped on the market and left to rot (Konami, I'm looking your way).

.

 

Exactly. If the Wii was equal to the power of the others we would have all those games, and gamers would be more accepting of the Wii. Then the other games (Zack and Wicki, HotD, Dead Space etc) would get more sales...

[Fierce_LiNk]

When I say "proper" games, I do not actually mean what I (and clearly you) would call proper gamers. But there are a lot of gamers out there who want the tech powerful experience; and I really believe that Simply releasing a more powerful Wii HD that is backward compatible will really cater for this audience and work. In fact, I'll go as far as to say I think it's possibly the only way Nintendo has to get these gamers back on board.

 

It depends what you mean by proper gamers, then. I thought you meant the serious gamers, and I stand by my comment that many serious gamers who value their experiences would want to see an easier or more robust online system for the Wii. Just one friendcode would have been a start, but we didn't even get that! When I say serious, I mean the ones who are hard to pry away from their Wiis! The ones who put serious gametime into it.

 

It isn't the only way, though. In fact, how many people were salivating over the new Metroid or Galaxy 2? At the end of the day, a system is defined by its software. What would be the point in HD if we didn't have the software to go with it, so instantly the software becomes half of the solution there anyway.

 

HD isn't like a multiplier. It doesn't mean you'll automatically get times 2/x2 sales because it is simply there. Its only a small part of the puzzle.

[dazzybee]

It's not just about software - otherwise Zack and Wicki, Mad World, No More Heroes blah blah blah would have sold better.

 

By proper gamers, I mean the dumb f*cks who think the Wii is for kids...unfortunately, Nintendo needs these!

[Emasher]

You can not use Metal Gear Solid 4 as an exmaple of cinematic games selling well. That's like saying side scrolling platformers sell really well on the Wii because of NSMB. These games are always going to sell, not because of their genre.

 

Not quite what I was trying to say. My point was that this game is very different from the type of game you're comparing it to on the Wii. Its a cinematic game, much like a playable movie. MGS 4 was only really an example, there have been a lot of more cinematic games that have been successful on the console. There's a market for cinematic games on the PS3, but there isn't necessarily a market for them on the Wii (we don't know, as there aren't really any examples of one).

[STOOPIDDITTIES]

I genuinly think it's too late for anything to change the gaming public's view of the Wii now. Sure, three or four third-party quality games could come out of nowhere and become million sellers, but the image that Ninendo have now with Wii is going to stick for the rest of it's lifespan. At least to those not interested.

 

They could fix everything that any gamer could list as a 'fault'. Online, HD, memory, etc. But for now nothing will change. Any gamer who has complaints about the Wii has already moved on. Why would a few upgrades interest them when they already had the same thing a few years ago? They'd have no incentive to buy a machine that has the same cappabilities as their current games console because of the lack of third-party software.

 

All that Nintendo could possibly do now is learn from their mistakes and change accordingly when they release their next console. Which, as we know, has just as much of a chance of happening as much as it doesn't.

[david.dakota]

I dont think the solution is for a HD Wii (although, yeah, it'd be nice).

 

The problem lies solely with third party publishers, not the Wii hardware. They've spent three years dicking about with party games; souring the taste of their products for the Wii audience. Now, take both Call of Duties, they sold pretty well after being scaled back for Wii - I see no reason why Bioshock, Dead Space et al wouldn't do as well on Wii. But they never appeared, Why? Well, it seems to me that publishers themselves have been trying to seperate whats acceptable on Wii and whats acceptable on the HD beasts - maybe to ensure we judge a game on its SD Wii visuals? The simple fact is that few HD games, if any, could not be scaled back.

[Dante]

Lets see 3rd parties make poor made games on the Wii than they did with gamecube and make HD version of games on PSP and Iphone but having WiiHD will somehow make the third party support better?

[Shino]

Two things. Fist there isn't a Heavy Rain like game on the 360 either, its just not a common type of game, and I agree with who said that many of the people who aren't fanboys and followed the hype will be disappointed.

 

Second, more graphic power never meant third parties on Nintendo consoles. N64 and the GameCube also had virtually no third party support, at least not comparable to the other consoles of their time. And lets just face it, Nintendo will NEVER do what's necessary to bring them around and that's moneyhats. MS moneyhated they're way through this gen, and even Sony realized they can't compete with MS, so they started a robust first party support.

[FalcoLombardi]

So wait, how did someone notice the possible MM Moon in TP?

[STOOPIDDITTIES]

And lets just face it, Nintendo will NEVER do what's necessary to bring them around and that's moneyhats.

 

It's arguable that they tried this generation though. The Wii was perfect for third-parties. Cheap development costs and a huge userbase. But as has been stated before that chance was thrown away by all major publishers barring perhaps Capcom.

 

Rather than release waves of quality new IPs which would have gained the publishers alot more respect in the long run, they all opted for the quick buck.

 

We all seem to be forgetting Nintendo made the Wii less powerful for two reasons. The first as has been said was for the casual market. So that anyone could afford it. But the latter was so that smaller companies could make games and bigger publishers could take less risks.

 

But the publishers shot themselves in the foot etc...

 

Bottom line is Nintendo gave everyone a huge window of opprtunity. But Sega, Konami, Ubisoft, EA and Activision all took turns in throwing bricks through it.

[Fierce_LiNk]

It's not just about software - otherwise Zack and Wicki, Mad World, No More Heroes blah blah blah would have sold better.

 

By proper gamers, I mean the dumb f*cks who think the Wii is for kids...unfortunately, Nintendo needs these!

 

But look at each of those games. They're aimed at a particular market. They're not aimed at a wider audience like games such as New Super Mario Bros. are. The audience is a lot smaller. I'd definitely say that Zack and Wiki is a game for a niche market. I'd argue the same for the other two.

 

Also, you are right, it isn't just about the software, as my initial point about Heavy Rain looked at why that game is a success. It's a good piece of software that was marketed well and had a buzz/hype surrounding it. Considering the age we live in, I think it's almost like sending out a game to die if you fail to market it, or at least do it properly.

 

As for the moon bit, I have no idea how anyone spotted that. I'm not sold that it is the Moon.

[Dante]

"Nintendo Pamphlet 2010"

 

The plans for NSMBW overworld look awesome and had SMW look.

[dazzybee]

After being much more strict with myself this year (after an insane game buying 2009) I've spent a bit of money lately...

 

Classic Controller Pro - I actually I bought it for Capcom Vs. But then realised that the normal Classic Controller (which I have 2 of) is perfectly okay... Oh well; it's actually very good, and will still be better. Plus for games that use Z1+2 it will be integral (does MH3 use these buttons a lot?)

 

Boy and His Blob (£10) and Indiana Jones SoK (£6) - two bargains from Sainsburys. Not played them yet. Wanted Boy for ages so looking forard to playing that. Not bothered about Indiana but you can't complain about £6, especially when it has fate of Atlantis in it!!

 

DJ Hero (£40) - what a bargain. And what a game. Nails though. My Wiis have been sent away, so annyongly trying not to play it too much (as I'll have to do everything again when my wiis come back). Really good though, and at that price everyone should give it a go!!

 

And what with the insane release schedule over the next few months, I really need to bash through all my games....it's getting silly now...

[LostOverThere]

What I got from all that was this:

I'm dying.

Edited March 7, 2010 by LostOverThere
Automerged Doublepost

[dazzybee]

What I got from all that was this:

 

I am....how did you know?

[david.dakota]

Dazzy, its a shame you don't die so easily in The Conduit.

 

Personally, i've a couple of weeks to play through a few golden oldies - I had a Boy and His Blob for Christmas, i'm playing through that at the moment. I also have Deadly Creatures to get through. I want to get both completed before Fragile Dreams. All good fun.

 

The first half of this year really has scuppered my plans to get a PS3.

[Fused King]

 

Mario Kart 2

Paper Mario 4

 

or something completely different; Kirby, Luigi, Captain Jay Douglas Falcon, Fox McCloud, Donkey Kong ? ? ?

 

Where's that N-Europe Hype Train Redshell? 1st Class tickets for me please: peace:

 

Edit: Source = Nintendo Power

Edited March 7, 2010 by Fused King

[STOOPIDDITTIES]

Doshin the Giant 2.

 

 

I'd rather not actually.

 

What magazine is that?

[Ashley]

Mario Party 237?

 

Fused snook in the source (Nintendo Power) btw.

[david.dakota]

I'd be happy with a new Doshin, actually. The first was interesting, but didn't hit its potential. Doubt its Doshin though.

 

I may be reading too much into Marios hand - we usually see it fisted, never seen him hold up 5 fingers... Could we see a fifth installment of something?