Tapedecks Rant: Do Nintendo fans have an appreciation or an arrogance over gaming?

[tapedeck]

I guess it's the age old argument of ignorance is bliss.

When you are educated you seem to see problems and then you seem to inevitably live with noticeable problems! If you have nothing your knowledge is limited and (to the educated) life seems rosier.

__________________________________________________________

 

In regards to gaming I've noticed the similarity between the above and the games we play. Say we only play horrendously difficult games; we would accept games as tough. Then an easy game comes along and it would be slated for being WAY too easy. (Whereas it would only be easy in comparison to previous games). It's "what we know" we love.

It also seems that those who mainly play Nintendo-developed games have developed an almost subconcious awareness of developed difficulty curves, intruiging, explorative elements and enjoyable mechanics. (Again, subconciously related to our humane understandings of gravitational elements, boundaries, response, feedback, reap and reward etc).

 

I therefore think many gamers who have grown up playing Nintendo games have become accustomed to the above elements and regard them as standard. Like the Nintendo 'seal of quality'. But does this mean other games are appreciated as much by Nintendo gamers? I really do think many Nintendo gamers have a poor appreciation of other stuido's games. (And rightly so at times). We are SPOILT! It's hard to make such an assumption *as a gamer myself* yet having spent many years talking with (analysing) gamers I thought this would be sectional. It's not. Many diehard SEGA fans still proclaim the company to be able to turn their hand to anything with god-like status. And many Sony fans still feel Gran Tourismo created true definition of modern gaming and real-world symbiosis. Horses for courses indeed.

 

With Nintendo I feel like I'm in a club. Or I support them like a favourite band. I buy Nintendo consoles because I instantly 'know' they will produce the greatest gaming, no; 'entertainment' in the next 5-6 years. It's a no-brainer. Cash paid. Next 'hit' please.

 

Like a slave, I just know Nintendo will always produce the best entertainment available.

 

Furthermore, I understand (and have become more aware) most gamers need to kick back once in a while (like a film,book,music critic) and just enjoy something for what it is. (It's not easy though, is it!) We are all critics afterall. But take your generic wii game or your Boogie and just appreciate it for what it aims to do. Just to entertain on some level. Maybe because at £30-40 a time I guess we should all be little critics?

 

Do Nintendo fans have an appreciation or an arrogance over gaming?

 

I have both. And I'm damn proud of it.

[jammy2211]

I'm not sure, I do generally enjoy Nintendo games more then other publishers, but I don't think that's so much arrogance or preference, rather then the fact nintendo make kick arse games (or is that my arrogance? :P).

 

Last generation I was very much centered around the PS2, and namely Socom online, and through the course of it's lifespan I saw sony slow slaughter the franchise from being the perfect online experience to something I avoid playing. I think the fact I only played one game for 4 years sort of killed the whole thing for me.

 

Now my needs of gaming have changed and Nintendo seem to suit them, I no long care for online (as nothing will ever match the quality Socom once was) and I don't have the time for alot of things.

 

So er, this post really had no point. I can't ever start the debate, so I'll be back in a few posts :P.

[harribo]

Nintendo fans definitely have an arrogance over gaming.

[mcj metroid]

I believe gamers do complain too much. You can get fun out of just about any game. There are many games I like that got horrible reviews.

 

Having played games for a long time i would be in the exact same position. i do critise a lot in gaming.

 

I am a movie critic a lot also

I have also been playing the piano since i was 5 and am now in a band. It's hard not to criticise.

 

I guess we should lighten up at times though.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

Nintendo fans definitely have an arrogance over gaming.

 

I agree. I don't really see as much anti-<insert company> comments as I do on Nintendo forums. Fine though, if you feel Nintendo games are the best then stick with them but why do some have to cross the line with inflammatory comments when you disagree? Its a severe problem.

[jammy2211]

uh-oh, he just dropped the F-bomb.

[tapedeck]

good shout metroid: I'm like an old man at times with other bands because nothing is as good as what I like and play. My other half is always saying "just appreciate it on a different level". But isn't that a trait of some women sometimes? Music/games/films etc can be just "enjoyed" for what they are. Yet with blokes its oh, so different at times. We can't seem to just switch off and enjoy something. We all seem to think we could have done better or made this/that better. Macho indeed!

 

Gaming is bloody brilliant BUT many games are just difficult to fully enjoy when you have been touched by Nintendo. Wave Race has yet to be bettered. 1080 on the N64 was so realistic that it has ruined my perspective of serious snowboard games ever since. Mario 64 was so perfect that 3D platformers haven't been as good since. Zelda ALTTP was so clever I stopped watching The Crystal Maze. The list continues. Surely I'm not the only one!

[LazyBoy]

Gaming is bloddy brilliant BUT many games are just difficult to fully enjoy when you have been touched by Nintendo.

 

You see I don't think thats true. If anything it makes it better. I mean you play one game like Paper Mario. Slow, calming, charming RPG. Then you play Ninja Gaiden. The difference between the two games alone, the feeling of a new type of game is enjoyable. Trying different types of games is fun, and you need to get away from Nintendo sometimes to do that.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

uh-oh, he just dropped the F-bomb.

 

...See what I mean?

[jammy2211]

...See what I mean?

 

Mate I'm just trying to wind you up now .

 

I love the idea that you're having to make all these posts with a Wii Remote. Sounds painful .

[mcj metroid]

good shout metroid: I'm like an old man at times with other bands because nothing is as good as what I like and play. My other half is always saying "just appreciate it on a different level". But isn't that a trait of some women sometimes? Music/games/films etc can be just "enjoyed" for what they are. Yet with blokes its oh, so different at times. We can't seem to just switch off and enjoy something. We all seem to think we could have done better or made this/that better. Macho indeed!

 

Gaming is bloody brilliant BUT many games are just difficult to fully enjoy when you have been touched by Nintendo. Wave Race has yet to be bettered. 1080 on the N64 was so realistic that it has ruined my perspective of serious snowboard games ever since. Mario 64 was so perfect that 3D platformers haven't been as good since. Zelda ALTTP was so clever I stopped watching The Crystal Maze. The list continues. Surely I'm not the only one!

 

 

Well i think men want to be more elitist with their opinions. Women generally enjoy most games and have a laugh with them. I never thought about this sort of thing before So i don't have a true answer. But the answer usually ends up being that men are more image oriantated than women. The macho kind are almost afraid to be seen as non-serious. it's this way with everything i believe.

 

yep games like super mario 64 spoils us but i can't say i never enjoed another 3d platform since. Ape escape for ps1 was brilliant and honestly not far off the quality but it will always set the bar for every nintendo platformer ever.

 

The best example of this is OOT. Many believe TP was just an improved OOt but not half as good. How can this be possible if it's an improvement? OOT spoiled us all.There have been much better games since oot in all fairness.

[Ginger_Chris]

I think alot of people who play good games have an arrogance over gaming. When someone tells you their favourite game is fifa (insert number) or gta (insert number), I do find myself ignoring their opinion about that subject. Whether or not that's the definition of arrogance I'll leave that for you to decide. I'll do the same for someone who said a game like pikmin was shit because it had kiddy graphics.

 

I definitely don't think its a Nintendo fan thing though. It's the type of snopbbery that happens in any field. I know loads of people that don't like band x because everyone likes them and they've become "generic". I feel the same way about gta and halo. Out of the games I'd rate as the best I've played very few have actually sold well.

 

EDIT: None of my personal top 5 games are made by Nintendo (Grim Fandango, Battlezone (1998 version), Freespace 2, Deus Ex and Homeworld:Cataclysm), so I'm not much of a fanboy.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

good shout metroid: I'm like an old man at times with other bands because nothing is as good as what I like and play. My other half is always saying "just appreciate it on a different level". But isn't that a trait of some women sometimes? Music/games/films etc can be just "enjoyed" for what they are. Yet with blokes its oh, so different at times. We can't seem to just switch off and enjoy something. We all seem to think we could have done better or made this/that better. Macho indeed!

 

Gaming is bloody brilliant BUT many games are just difficult to fully enjoy when you have been touched by Nintendo. Wave Race has yet to be bettered. 1080 on the N64 was so realistic that it has ruined my perspective of serious snowboard games ever since. Mario 64 was so perfect that 3D platformers haven't been as good since. Zelda ALTTP was so clever I stopped watching The Crystal Maze. The list continues. Surely I'm not the only one!

 

Definitely agree with that! I know Nintendo games set the bar on many genres in older generations. But the arrogance in Nintendo fans lie in under-appreciating/evaluating games of other companies (particularly those on non nintendo machines) who quiet frankly are working their butts off these days to give us games to enjoy.

 

Mate I'm just trying to wind you up now .

 

I love the idea that you're having to make all these posts with a Wii Remote. Sounds painful .

 

...Been doing it ALLLLL night, sadly.

[Fanelia]

personally i wasn't aware there is such a thing as a "nintendo gamer". i think we are all different people with different ideas and convictions, and yes, we all play nintendo games. but does playing nintendo games make me a "nintendo gamer"? i don't think so. it simply makes me a gamer who plays nintendo. even if i only play nintendo games, i wouldn't concider myself being a "nintendo gamer". i will simply be a gamer who only plays nintendo. it's a choice, i decided to play those games, not the other way around.

making claims, about how a certain group of people perceives games, on the sole base of their console of choice is nonsensical.

 

there is no correlation whatsoever between the maturity of our minds and the controller in our hands.

 

unless by "nintendo gamer" you mean "those who think nintendo is the best". but then stating that "those who think nintendo is the best" are arrogant is almost pleonastic, as the defenition of arrogance reads "revealing an exaggerated sense of ones importance"; the defined nintendo gamers obviously identify with nintendo, and stating that nintendo is the best developer means that they are the best gamers, not in technical terms but in a "chosen people" kind of way. the nintendo importance is thereby the gamers importance as well. this is often proven when nintendo gamers go mental when nintendo earns heaps of cash yet ignore the fact that they are being robbed blindly on things like vc-games or flawed hardware designs (gba, ds).

 

am i still making sense? if not, nighty night.

 

i love nintendo by the way. i'm serious. true genuine love. all warm.

[thirtynine.]

 

The best example of this is OOT. Many believe TP was just an improved OOt but not half as good. How can this be possible if it's an improvement? OOT spoiled us all.There have been much better games since oot in all fairness.

The thing is, people insert there penis into OOT the same way FF7 is analy raped. Personally i think Windwaker is better but you know, saying that on nintendoforums usually gets you raped.

[Hellfire]

Most Nintendo fanboyss by now are currently disapointed at Nintendo because most games they played when they were young seemed more magical and better than they actually were and now they expect too much, so they end up wishing Nintendo isn't Nintendo. The "only Nintendo makes games with quality the rest is for losers" fan seems to have disappeared after the N64 era.

Some things are never forgotten though, the "Zomg so many Nintendo fanboys" legend is still alive and kicking with a crapload of Microsoft and Sony fanboys everywhere, yet people choose to ignore and focus only on the Nintendo ones.

About appretiation I really like to enjoy a game for what it is and not for what it could be, which is what a lot of people seem to be doing, but that doesn't mean I can play crappy games or stop criticizing what I don't like. It's exactly what I do (and always have done) with movies, music and books too. I do think of myself as educated on the gaming scene and I don't crap my pants at the sight of a game with tuned cars, boobs, guns, blood and a punk rock soundtrack and sometimes I can't help but laugh when I go to a game store and see some teenagers drooling over a completly shitty game. However, I do get a simle on my face when I see greatness recognized by the most unlikely person. The other day I saw a small kid playing a PSP, which immediatly lead to think that he was playing some crappy game with guns or something the cool kids play nowadays. He was playing Locco Rocco. It was really nice to see a kid playing a console I don't particularly enjoy, but that actually chose a great game that was also appropriate for his age.

Yeah this rant is kinda all over the place. lol

 

 

EDIT: None of my personal top 5 games are made by Nintendo (Grim Fandango, Battlezone (1998 version), Freespace 2, Deus Ex and Homeworld:Cataclysm), so I'm not much of a fanboy.

 

You got a good list there

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

personally i wasn't aware there is such a thing as a "nintendo gamer". i think we are all different people with different ideas and convictions, and yes, we all play nintendo games. but does playing nintendo games make me a "nintendo gamer"? i don't think so. it simply makes me a gamer who plays nintendo. even if i only play nintendo games, i wouldn't concider myself being a "nintendo gamer". i will simply be a gamer who only plays nintendo. it's a choice, i decided to play those games, not the other way around.

making claims, about how a certain group of people perceives games, on the sole base of their console of choice is nonsensical.

 

there is no correlation whatsoever between the maturity of our minds and the controller in our hands.

 

unless by "nintendo gamer" you mean "those who think nintendo is the best". but then stating that "those who think nintendo is the best" are arrogant is almost pleonastic, as the defenition of arrogance reads "revealing an exaggerated sense of ones importance"; the defined nintendo gamers obviously identify with nintendo, and stating that nintendo is the best developer means that they are the best gamers, not in technical terms but in a "chosen people" kind of way. the nintendo importance is thereby the gamers importance as well. this is often proven when nintendo gamers go mental when nintendo earns heaps of cash yet ignore the fact that they are being robbed blindly on things like vc-games or flawed hardware designs (gba, ds).

 

am i still making sense? if not, nighty night.

 

i love nintendo by the way. i'm serious. true genuine love. all warm.

 

loud and clear.

[Oditri]

Maybe it's just me, but I've bought nothing but Nintendo consoles since the SNES (my first Nintendo console), but I'm willing to admit that I'm a little disappointed with Nintendo's efforts so far...

*puts on flame-resistant suit*

Now, don't get me wrong, I love Nintendo games, but there just aren't any on the Wii. The only Wii games I've actually enjoyed are Zelda (gamecube game) and Sonic (made by Sega). I'm looking forward to Paper Mario, but not enough to rush out and buy it the minute it's released. I'll admit that there are a lot of games on the Wii I'm looking forward to, but the list consists of only one nintendo game, and that's Brawl. After the horror that was Mario Sunshine, I'm reluctant to consider Galaxy too much, and I never got further than the first bosses on the first 2 metroid games, so that's corruption out of the window.

 

So yeah, I'm a little disappointed with the Wii right now. It's not that there aren't enough games out, it's that the majority of them are shit. Sorry, but they are. Most of them wouldn't last 2 seconds on the gamecube. Why? Because 90% of them are based around the controller. There just isn't the level of content there to keep any decent gamer amused for more than 30mins, which when you're trying to compete with epics like Overlord and Blue Dragon won't help. All I'll say is that I've played Overlord for about the same amount of time I played sonic when I got it. In that time, I reckon I'm about halfway through Overlord (given that I've been to 2 out of the 4 areas on the map). In that same amount of time on sonic and the secret rings, I'd finished the story and gotten golds on about 30% of the missions (including every single mission in Sand Oasis). I've not touched any Wii game since finishing Sonic, and I hadn't touched one for about a month prior to it's launch.

 

Sorry, but right now there aren't the level of games I expect on the Wii right now. In the first 7 months of the gamecube's launch, Europe saw the release of Starfox Adventures, Pikmin and Smash Bros Melee. My play times for those are about 20 hours for starfox, 50 for pikmin, and somewhere in excess of 10,000 for melee. I don't know the exact figure for melee, because it only records 9999:59 of game time, and I got to that stage about a year and a half ago. What did the Wii get in those first 7 months? Zelda (gamecube game, grand total about 30 hours anyway), and Sonic (grand total about 30 hours too). Oh, and let's not forget Red Steel, which I desperately tried to like for about 2 hours before consigning it to the bottom of my shelf, never to be touched again.

 

Wow, actually feels kinda cathartic to get that off my chest. That's one of the longest rants I think I've ever had. Meh, still disappointed with my Wii...

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

Maybe it's just me, but I've bought nothing but Nintendo consoles since the SNES (my first Nintendo console), but I'm willing to admit that I'm a little disappointed with Nintendo's efforts so far...

*puts on flame-resistant suit*

Now, don't get me wrong, I love Nintendo games, but there just aren't any on the Wii. The only Wii games I've actually enjoyed are Zelda (gamecube game) and Sonic (made by Sega). I'm looking forward to Paper Mario, but not enough to rush out and buy it the minute it's released. I'll admit that there are a lot of games on the Wii I'm looking forward to, but the list consists of only one nintendo game, and that's Brawl. After the horror that was Mario Sunshine, I'm reluctant to consider Galaxy too much, and I never got further than the first bosses on the first 2 metroid games, so that's corruption out of the window.

 

So yeah, I'm a little disappointed with the Wii right now. It's not that there aren't enough games out, it's that the majority of them are shit. Sorry, but they are. Most of them wouldn't last 2 seconds on the gamecube. Why? Because 90% of them are based around the controller. There just isn't the level of content there to keep any decent gamer amused for more than 30mins, which when you're trying to compete with epics like Overlord and Blue Dragon won't help. All I'll say is that I've played Overlord for about the same amount of time I played sonic when I got it. In that time, I reckon I'm about halfway through Overlord (given that I've been to 2 out of the 4 areas on the map). In that same amount of time on sonic and the secret rings, I'd finished the story and gotten golds on about 30% of the missions (including every single mission in Sand Oasis). I've not touched any Wii game since finishing Sonic, and I hadn't touched one for about a month prior to it's launch.

 

Sorry, but right now there aren't the level of games I expect on the Wii right now. In the first 7 months of the gamecube's launch, Europe saw the release of Starfox Adventures, Pikmin and Smash Bros Melee. My play times for those are about 20 hours for starfox, 50 for pikmin, and somewhere in excess of 10,000 for melee. I don't know the exact figure for melee, because it only records 9999:59 of game time, and I got to that stage about a year and a half ago. What did the Wii get in those first 7 months? Zelda (gamecube game, grand total about 30 hours anyway), and Sonic (grand total about 30 hours too). Oh, and let's not forget Red Steel, which I desperately tried to like for about 2 hours before consigning it to the bottom of my shelf, never to be touched again.

 

Wow, actually feels kinda cathartic to get that off my chest. That's one of the longest rants I think I've ever had. Meh, still disappointed with my Wii...

 

That is exactly my feeling. I having been playing Paper Mario on VC for the past three weeks and am really impressed by it, so I thought I would invest a bit more in playing more VC games that i didn't have a chance to play...But then I wondered why i got the Wii if I will only be interested in Snes/N64 games. o_O

 

After completing Paper Mario two days ago I got a real buzz for Super paper Mario, until I realised it would cut out all the things I liked about Paper Mario...Its RPG element. I loved the simple yet complex turn-based fighting of Paper mario, but dislike or have grown out of 2D side scrolling Mario games which really puts me off SPM.

Then just like you, Sunshine really felt unimpressive, so I'm still a bit sceptic about Galaxy respectively. And I never found enjoyment in Metroid prime, so MP3 is probably off my list. I guess the only thing Nintendo this year that has my attention is the advent of playing online Pokemon matches in 3D which outside of its online feature (again) is a pretty poor game, and even the online mode does not have any form of leadership boards or the like. Maybe Mario and Sonic at the Olympics will get my attention...But another sports/party game???

 

The only will get, must get Wii game for me is Smash Bros. Brawl...And thats out "early" 2008, most definitly in spring.

 

I want Nintendo to do well, but I'm actually a bit worried about the sales of games such as Galaxy, MP3 and SPM, because if the "casual"/20 minute gamer is buying Wiis by the truckloads (presumably for the so-called "casual games), would they really want these games? Seems like a gamble, especially when you got the 360 at the same price on the shelves.

[pedrocasilva]

I don't know if this really adds something for the thread, but I'll verbally roam for a while here....

 

On the arrogance topic... I don't consider myself arrogant, yet I'm not new to gaming so... I may lack patience when it comes to n00bs and people that assume we should all be like them, flocking to the same kind of tastes (trust me I feel that a lot in my skin); so... to those I might come out as arrogant; because I tend to defend myself, I consider myself aware but it's just the type of gamer I am, and that's not gonna change.

 

Yet, I think of myself as very open and acceptant to new inclusions/gameplay, etc; a little because of what Nintendo got us used to; other brands fans always go gaga over the new consoles graphics capabilities, no doubt we do that too, but... we also always anticipate a new controller for home consoles; so when sony unveils a boomerang controller their core userbase goes moaning about wanting dual shock back... until they do. I never heard a Nintendo guy asking the GC controller back; and even if they did... Nintendo wouldn't listen to them...

 

*hugs wiimote and screams "thank god"*

 

That might also have something to do that Nintendo always drives their market according with what they think they should (while making great games and being coherent) instead of focusing on fans pleads; so I believe we could be a lot more arrogant if what we said made a difference with what the company does.

 

I actually find other consoles fans to be more arrogant a lot of the time whereas we're mostly defensive; I myself as a gamer only want to be respected not to prove my console is better than <insert name>, it's better for me and that's what matters, hence why I was surprised by Wii sales, I'm not used to people digging my console; and I like it.

 

Arrogance on Sony's arena might have something to do with psone and ps2 dominance, and even outside of sony this gen, they try to distance themselves with "we're the hardcore's" (and if you wanna be like us you'll have to buy more than a wii) argument, and that's plain arrogant to me as... I'm not them; People forget PSone was pretty casual when compared to Saturn back when it shipped; it sold most hardware units but lesser games in Japan when compared to Saturn, until FF7 came along, hell... every market leader is more casual driven with variety than the runner-ups; I enjoyed some mini games compilations this gen that doesn't make me casual so when a casual game sells and people conclude it was x public who bought it... I find it ridiculous, they're trying to draw a line were it shouldn't be one, and drawing that line to make themselves feel better and superior... that's arrogant in my book, same goes for the people who refuse to play a cartoony game because it's "kiddy"; I mean who cares? and that's true for pretty much every Nintendo fan, we accept it, we're ok with it.

 

But going back to the point about PSone and PS2 having made sony's userbase arrogant... Now we're winning, but I try not to go overly optimistic or bragging about ds and wii sales; so I wonder if Wii dominates (and I hope it does) in five years time if our userbase won't be more arrogant than it is now (might be inevitable), but I know for sure that I wouldn't like to be like that so I'm weary and think think I won't fall onto that cheap attitude.

 

So no, I don't think we're arrogant, I think we're very rational. (but rabbid fanboys from any brand are always bad)

[killthenet]

On the whole it does seem to me that Nintendo fans seem to believe that first party Nintendo are more important and better put together than games from any other developer, but the same can be said for a number of fans of both Sony, Microsoft and Sega.

 

I could say more but am feeling unusually tired and currently unable to be insightful.

[DCK]

Primarily, and I think this is really important, I don't think that you can put all 'Nintendo fans' in a general nominator. Calling them all arrogant about Nintendo is basically calling all Nintendo fans fanboys, and that is way too easy and ignorant.

 

I don't consider myself arrogant; I like Nintendo's games and thats why I own their consoles. I don't underappreciate other games and I would probably have owned a 360 if I had the money.

[Hero-of-Time]

I have been a Nintendo fan every since the NES days and probably will be all of my life. This of course doesnt mean to say that I only have an appreciation for Nintendo themed games.

 

Ever since I got hooked on gaming I have always saved up the cash myself and got just about all the main machines that came out so that I got a taste of what all the big guns had to offer. As a result I have learned to love most types of games and became a pretty good gamer while I was at it.

 

I continue this style of trying to play alot of types of games on various machines to this day and it still holds true today what it taught me back then and that is to get the most out of gaming you have to sample other platforms ESPECIALLY with the direction that the Wii took.

 

In regards to ignorant gamers, I usually dont mind hearing what other people think about gaming but when people come on various message boards and think the Wii is gold while completly dismissing the 360 purely because they only have a Wii it really gets on my nerves as both are quality machines. Sure I know most people can only back one horse but you shouldnt mouth off about a thing that you have never played on.

 

As for the difficulty of games again that doesnt really bother me. To me if a game is easy but I get enjoyment out of it then its a score, take the likes of Luigis Mansion and Pikmin for example.

[Tellyn]

I don't think it's an arrogance with the majority of people, it's a preference. The likelihood is that most Nintendo fans have at some point played other consoles but they realise that they don't like the games. I own a 360, and whilst I really like the console and the few games that I have, it can't compare to my Wii and all the good games and features that I know are coming later this year. For me it's a preference. I don't own Nintendo's consoles because I think to myself 'OMG SONY ARE CRAPXORZ', I just prefer their games. They always seem to have a unique charm that draws me in.

[Cube]

I agree. I don't really see as much anti-<insert company> comments as I do on Nintendo forums. Fine though, if you feel Nintendo games are the best then stick with them but why do some have to cross the line with inflammatory comments when you disagree? Its a severe problem.

 

Yea. I've lost count of the amount of anti-Nintendo comments on these forums. Microsoft is mentioned in good books most of the time, and Sony seems to be hardly mentioned anymore.

 

I love some of Nintendo's franchises. I also hate some (even some of their most popular ones). ]

 

I also love some (now) 3rd party franchises. Sonic, Tomb Raider (first 2 and Legends), Worms, etc. And if Banjo-Kazooie is good, or they make a new (good) Jet Force Gemini....well, I don't think my wallet will like me.