Miyamoto not happy with LoZ:tp sales says less want long rpg games anymore

[Domstercool]

Not too sure on the whole length of game thing. I mean RPGs sell like hotcakes in Japan and they are quite long games for what I know of.

[Hellfire]

RGPs aren't selling as much as people think. Just the famous ones.

[Mr. Bananagrabber]

Dear lord people it's just an interview, probably mistranslated and misinterpreted, it's not like they're going to stop making big games and make only small ones and cancel Zelda. Don't be idiots.

Exactly.

RGPs aren't selling as much as people think. Just the famous ones.

Surely that's true of everything?

[pedrocasilva]

Not too sure on the whole length of game thing. I mean RPGs sell like hotcakes in Japan and they are quite long games for what I know of.

RPG's are expensive to make, as they're quite big in expectancy, and we're having some next gen games that already have to sell more than a million to turn a profit, RPG's are the prime candidates for this, but seeing a RPG coming out and selling under 500.000 in Japan is not that uncommon, then the localization to release it overseas is way more expensive than other games since most of the times it includes voice overs, not to mention, a load of text.

 

So the money these developers can expect of the game comes mostly from Japan to start with. And it's a elite.

 

As for Blue Dragon and Eternal Sonata on X360 it's the contrary, they're J-RPG's tailored for the US market from the beggining; Eternal Sonata wasn't even released in US and already has images with english language, and it comes from Namco who is usually slow as hell translating.

 

No Japanese developer in his right mind would do a exclusive J-RPG for X360 expecting to sell it on Japan, the game will get hammered for being in X360 anyway; I'd bet the ones coming were requested or funded by Microsoft (we know the mistwalker ones where). trying to sell a J-RPG in US is a big risk too, although I believe they'll sell because the console userbase is bound to have one of these elites, that should be starved for this genre, how much remains to be seen (and they could also kinda flop).

 

Problem is... America is probably the worse place in the world to try and sell a RPG now, but Microsoft has assembled quite the selling machine with demos and trailers on the console so... who knows (didn't save Viva Pinata though). But even if this first wave sells... Too much RPG's and the market will get saturated, US market is really not that great, unless someone manages to expand it (which is hard because of their own mentality and the nature of RPG's themselfes)

 

That's what happened with PS2, the US market was already small, but with so many RPG's to choose from and "fans" getting more than they could play... it lost interest and it shrinked further.

[Hellfire]

Exactly.

 

Surely that's true of everything?

 

Yeah, but I'm just saying you can't just slap an RPG tag on a game and expect it to sell millions.

[Zechs Merquise]

Look how well Brain Training and Wii Sports and Wii Play have sold in Japan, maybe the market is shifting over there. At least Nintendo are starting to face up to things. I love Zelda, I love sprawling quests, but that doesn't mean everyone does. Maybe they should bundle Zelda with the Wii in Japan, maybe that would geta few more copies out there and show them how good it really is.

[pedrocasilva]

Look how well Brain Training and Wii Sports and Wii Play have sold in Japan, maybe the market is shifting over there. At least Nintendo are starting to face up to things. I love Zelda, I love sprawling quests, but that doesn't mean everyone does. Maybe they should bundle Zelda with the Wii in Japan, maybe that would geta few more copies out there and show them how good it really is.

Or make a free downloadable demo for the suckers

[Owen]

Don't whatever you do Shigsy make Zelda into a bunch of mini-games...thats all i'm saying!

 

EDIT: And can people have their own opinion in this thread? The amount of times someone has stated their view on something, and someone (not naming names) has come back disagreeing and totally saying what the person has said is 'wrong' ! It's bloody annoying.

 

If people felt annoyed about what Shigsy stated, let em.

[Domstercool]

And so the popular ones sold, so surely that still means people want them? Zelda is popular and yet it didn't sell as much, maybe because it was quite samey to past Zeldas before it? Who knows eh? But there's no doubt that RPGs still sell.

 

The RPG market is bigger than ever before. Loads more RPGs are finally getting turned into English, just look at small companies like Nippon Ichi bringing awesome stuff in our language.

[BlueStar]

Agree, played 8 hours into TP after I got it at Christmas, got bored, hasn't been in my Wii since. Although saying that I'm already 35 hours into Pokemon Diamond.

[Teppo Holmqvist]

EDIT: And can people have their own opinion in this thread? The amount of times someone has stated their view on something, and someone (not naming names) has come back disagreeing and totally saying what the person has said is 'wrong' ! It's bloody annoying.

 

Certain people in this thread are fucking overreacting, twisting his words, taking them out of context, and making some rather stupid claims that have nothing to do with reality. That's bloody annoying and nobody should tolerate crap like that.

 

The RPG market is bigger than ever before. Loads more RPGs are finally getting turned into English, just look at small companies like Nippon Ichi bringing awesome stuff in our language.

 

Except that RPG market isn't bigger than before, because sales show exact opposite. Sure there is more titles on the European market, but this is mostly because companies have understood that they need to scrape sales from every possible region. Nippon Ichi / Atlus games rarely sell more than 40 000 copies in Europe.

[Shorty]

Zelda would've sold better if it was an epic, next generation game, a little harder, a little prettier, a little more original, a little larger (I wanted to feel immersed in a world, but the only place that felt like a real existence was hyrule market, the fields, other villages, everything should've been more populated). I'm not denying that it was a brilliant game, but it should've taken a bigger leap.

 

Miyamoto would never admit that TP didn't live up to gamers' expectations, he'd rather say the market is changing. My favourite kinds of games will always be the huge ones, that have so much to do and take so much time to do it. The quick-fire fun games like Wii Sports are good too, but not epic.

[theguyfromspark]

I can see two possible outcomes for the next Zelda based on the lukewarm reception it received in Japan:

 

1. Nintendo decide to tailor the next game more towards the Western Market who bought the last game by bringing in a Western writer to flesh out the plot, this will make the game look and feel more "adult" with more realistic environments and characters.

 

2. Nintendo decide to try and win back the Japanese audience by simplifying and streamlining the control scheme and gameplay.

[Patch]

They* are still making Metroid games, despite bad sales in Japan, and they are satisfyingly long and challenging.

 

*Not Nintendo, I know.

[Domstercool]

Certain people in this thread are fucking overreacting, twisting his words, taking them out of context, and making some rather stupid claims that have nothing to do with reality. That's bloody annoying and nobody should tolerate crap like that.

 

 

 

Except that RPG market isn't bigger than before, because sales show exact opposite. Sure there is more titles on the European market, but this is mostly because companies have understood that they need to scrape sales from every possible region. Nippon Ichi / Atlus games rarely sell more than 40 000 copies in Europe.

 

 

That's funny, because Nippon brought their buisness to America because of how succesful their products were.

 

"NIS America was the result of the company's wish to focus on internal publication of their works in the US, given the increased popularity of their titles"

 

You've got to know that not all games cost millions and have to sell millions to make profits.

 

Apart from Gears, the next highest 360 game is an RPG, Oblivion.

 

Diamond and Pearl are making their way to the top of the DS, which is also an RPG game.

 

WoW, also selling like a stupid amount.

 

 

 

If done right, they sell. I don't see where you are getting the idea from that they are not. It doesn't have to be number 1 every week to sell.

[DCK]

I can see two possible outcomes for the next Zelda based on the lukewarm reception it received in Japan:

 

1. Nintendo decide to tailor the next game more towards the Western Market who bought the last game by bringing in a Western writer to flesh out the plot, this will make the game look and feel more "adult" with more realistic environments and characters.

 

2. Nintendo decide to try and win back the Japanese audience by simplifying and streamlining the control scheme and gameplay.

I bet that the next home Zelda will be cel-shaded again. The Wind Waker was rather popular in the Japanese market and performed well in the western market too (we will buy anything); the refreshing design sort of renewed interest in the game. Twilight Princess, although definetely the better game, seemed more boring and generic than The Wind Waker.

 

That's as far as the Japanese sales will have consequences. This game still sold way above average.

[Pit-Jr]

Miyamoto would never admit that TP didn't live up to gamers' expectations, he'd rather say the market is changing.

 

Thats kinda the impression i got from the interview. In fact im sure hes thrilled that Wii Sports and Wii Play handily outsold Zelda, now they can statistically back-up theyre past claims that people''are not interested in grand games with higher-quality graphics and sound and epic stories.'' Mission accomplished!

 

Also, i dont have an 'agenda'. Its a discussion, nothing more , nothing less

[Teppo Holmqvist]

Zelda would've sold better if it was an epic, next generation game, a little harder, a little prettier, a little more original, a little larger (I wanted to feel immersed in a world....

 

Time for reality check. TP has already sold over 4 million copies worldwide. That's extremely well considering that Wii has userbase of 6.7 million, and Gamecube is practically dead system. For comparison, Oblivion has so far sold 1.6 million copies, Final Fantasy XII 5 million units, Wind Waker 4.6, and Ocarina of Time 7.6. When Wii's userbase grows, TP is eventually going pass every of aformentioned titles that it hasn't passed yet.

[Lens of Truth]

Well said Teppo. I hope Nintendo don't become even more paranoid about this sort of thing.. I seem to remember Miyamoto or someone or other saying that TP was designed with western audiences in mind, so this turn of events shouldn't be a major surprise or sticking-point for them.

[Shorty]

Time for reality check. TP has already sold over 4 million copies worldwide. That's extremely well considering that Wii has userbase of 6.7 million, and Gamecube is practically dead system. For comparison, Oblivion has so far sold 1.6 million copies, Final Fantasy XII 5 million units, Wind Waker 4.6, and Ocarina of Time 7.6. When Wii's userbase grows, TP is eventually going pass every of aformentioned titles that it hasn't passed yet.

This thread is about Miyamoto concerned that it didn't sell the way he had hoped. I'm just responding to that. If it wasn't true, this thread and the concern it branches from wouldn't even exist. Also do you have a source on your figure of over 4 million? Or any of your figures? According to this page, Oblivion had sold over 1.7 million by this time last year.

[Zechs Merquise]

Time for reality check. TP has already sold over 4 million copies worldwide. That's extremely well considering that Wii has userbase of 6.7 million, and Gamecube is practically dead system. For comparison, Oblivion has so far sold 1.6 million copies, Final Fantasy XII 5 million units, Wind Waker 4.6, and Ocarina of Time 7.6. When Wii's userbase grows, TP is eventually going pass every of aformentioned titles that it hasn't passed yet.

 

Well said. However, I agree with other points in this thread, I felt the story for TP was a little weaker than usual, as was the lack of people in the game. It was very lonely, and you never really felt like Hyrule was doomed.

[pedrocasilva]

And so the popular ones sold, so surely that still means people want them? Zelda is popular and yet it didn't sell as much, maybe because it was quite samey to past Zeldas before it? Who knows eh? But there's no doubt that RPGs still sell.

Not really as Square could even do ten Final Fantasy's with the same mechanics and it would sell anyway, they could make a Final Fantasy Tetris and it would still sell, they could make a Final Fantasy 7 remake and have Japan go Bananas with it.

 

Zelda by comparison it's not that popular over there, it never was; 450.000 units is not bad, it's more than Xenosaga and other RPG's ever sold, but it's not the "Homerun" it is in other countries while Nintendo doesn't milk Zelda nearly as much. Also by comparison a Ocarina of Time (the highest selling Zelda) remake wouldn't be that hot either, going with the example I gave above (about FF7).

 

The only reason for Zelda not selling near as much is status, Final Fantasy has it over there, and Zelda is overlooked.

The RPG market is bigger than ever before. Loads more RPGs are finally getting turned into English, just look at small companies like Nippon Ichi bringing awesome stuff in our language.

No it isn't, but you're free to believe in what you want.

 

Nippon Ichi is not a good example too, since their RPG's are not really high budget, Their games are pushing no hardware boundaries whatsoever, it doesn't have "that big" production values... it just goes with what we said actually, they make a profit in their games because they don't go with mega-productions like FF, because if they did... they'd have flops in their hands.

 

Disgaea 2 sold 150.000 units in Japan, that's not a big success by high budget standards by any means (and I believe it's their highest selling title at least recent). Hell... Xenosaga episode 3 sold more over there.

 

Disgaea is only sucessfull if it is low budget, and like (Teppo) said... when they release overseas they don't expect to sell more than 50.000 units in US (if they ever did), if they do reach that they're lucky. That said a localization of a Disgaea doesn't cost nearly as much as it costs for FF and others.

 

Big market? not really.

That's funny, because Nippon brought their buisness to America because of how succesful their products were.

 

"NIS America was the result of the company's wish to focus on internal publication of their works in the US, given the increased popularity of their titles"

 

You've got to know that not all games cost millions and have to sell millions to make profits.

 

Apart from Gears, the next highest 360 game is an RPG, Oblivion.

 

Diamond and Pearl are making their way to the top of the DS, which is also an RPG game.

 

WoW, also selling like a stupid amount.

 

 

 

If done right, they sell. I don't see where you are getting the idea from that they are not. It doesn't have to be number 1 every week to sell.

As stated before Nippon Ichi goes after other markets because they turn a profit in them, but they still don't sell through the roof with them. Sure makes a profit it's worth going after, but that doesn't warant the market grew when you look at sales numbers.

 

Pokémon public isn't quite the same as the public for Oblivion and WoW... Sure it's a RPG and all, but you get what I mean.

 

 

Oblivion... oblivion is not a J-RPG and that still doesn't warant others to be that sucessful, just remember all the publicity it had, about being the first real next gen games, about the ammount of detail, about how much it pushed the system etc.

 

Also Oblivion gameplay is very friendly for americans as it is expansive, you don't have to follow a storyline and you can make pretty much whatever you want; it's very diferent in that from other "general" RPG's. Feels a lot like a sandbox game at places and that's welcomed by americans, but also makes it "typically american". Oblivion by comparison sells nothing on Japan, be it being to american, I don't think it'll be any different on PS3. unless they're really starved, it's not the kind of RPG Japan wants. (and they'll probably accuse the main quest of being too hard)

 

Besides the console was having a software shortage, Oblivion coming out broke that, you can also call it good timing; but that does warant another RPG will sell like that, 1,7 million is not bound to be the real number of fans of the genre.

 

And WoW is a separate market to this one, and it sells to elites, sure it's a big elite, but if WoW public somehow got "real" alternatives (popular ones) say, 3/4... the audience for WoW would shrink instantly instead of growing that much, that's just how it is, WoW is gigantic because it's kind of alone in it's segment and a person who play's it doesn't play any other game.

[Fierce_LiNk]

 

Miyamoto would never admit that TP didn't live up to gamers' expectations, he'd rather say the market is changing. My favourite kinds of games will always be the huge ones, that have so much to do and take so much time to do it. The quick-fire fun games like Wii Sports are good too, but not epic.

 

But the series has been in decline over there for a while. At least, that's the impression I'm getting. Does anybody remember that sales chart where they showed figures for every Zelda title that got released over there?

[Hero-of-Time]

Pedro Vs Dom...This is gonna be good!

 

*HoT grabs chair and some popcorn*

[ShadowV7]

Pedro Vs Dom...This is gonna be good!

 

*HoT grabs chair and some popcorn*

 

*Shadow grabs a chair and some drinks and candy floss for himself and HoT*

 

What did I miss?

 

*Brings out camera and records everything*