Rummy

Obviously that first part is absolutely true - I don't know why this positive/negative thing constantly gets brought up. I think your Pikmin 3 point kinda goes with my points to raise something that I recall came up before - too much franchise fatigue and sequel-itis. You can't have a Pikmin 3 without it immediately being looked at in terms of possibly Pikmin 1 and Pikmin 2 and what they've done, compared to what it's done with itself since. Barring Splatoon and probably Mario Maker for its big flip in approach(plus the unmentioned Nintendoland) - I think the other titles just weren't fresh or revolutionary enough. I know the whole 1st party/2nd party debate comes up time and again - but I really really want them to try and create new experiences for the NX. Whilst delayed, it does look like BotW despite being a Zelda game and running of its name is being designed in a way quite contrary to the series usual approach - and that's exciting! I felt like probably too many of the Wii U's decisions and offerings were 'safe' - built too heavily upon previous games rather than bringing new ideas and designs to the table(one of the biggest selling points of the console, and something I don't feel was truly realised or utilised in the way Nintendoland, a launch title, was). Of course, with the things we've seen so far of rumours and potential approaches - it does seem they're trying to step outside of the comfort zone. I just hope they go far enough, but also remember to get some support with it too - there's a definite arrogance sometimes I feel from Nintendo where they feel they don't need to fully listen to everyone else; I still think Sony used to be the same but they made the PS4 a success by turning that attitude right around and doing their best to be open. If Nintendo are prepared, willing and go through with trying similar - I think they can come out on top again.

Do you know, of all the games to miss off the list they made - I'm surprised they left out Nintendoland(lack of online aside) as I still think it's possibly one of the most revolutionary and Wii U-esque games they made. The experience is still one I'm not quite sure you'd see on a games console, probably more like on mobiles/tablets for the asymmetrical experience. Still relevant too - we had quite a laugh* with it at Zell's the night before the meet. (*Maybe not me. I take Mario chase far too much to heart :p) Tbh with the games on the list I was probably pointing fingers not so much at lack of online - because it's been done and is inherent to the system not the games. Smash lost something I can't fully place. Pikmin was lovely and beautiful but its changing to fruits from quirky objects really killed some part of that for me(props to multi-captain multi-tasking, gamepad was good for that too). Mario 3D World was ok but it didn't hold me - maybe lack of local multiplayer opportunities to me now/at the time; or maybe it was a bit too much feeling like SM3DL(which I played fully through, iirc). I actually was about to praise that game when I saw the list - but then realised I confused World for Land! Splatoon as I said, 'online' faults aside, was really quite refreshing even if not directly/fully taking advantage of the WiiU's gamepad setup, and definitely a game of the generation. MK8 for me, was still must too much more of the same old done thing. Mario Maker's wall was very frustrating though - especially as it wasn't entirely clear how to get all the building bits(even tried a 'cheat' guide but it didn't work for me, must have missed something out and just given up at that point). I was actually thinking whilst I made that post - for the newbs who they felt needed a staggered progression on the making side - implement either the literal time/days option(ie takes a week/7 days of play), a buliding usage/time option(i think was the final implementation), but then also offer some sort of playing option too! Either you play X amount of fan-made levels with Y amount of objects in them, or rather more - give the player some classic, but tricky, levels to play through. If I could have chosen - I'd have gladly preferred maybe attempting to play through World 8(or the whole of, with warps ) SMB1 in order to unlock all the tools. Maybe pick a selection of the hardest levels from all the Mario games whose themes are present - any Mario fan worth their salt should surely have beaten them all already, and able to do so again? Would have been a nice touch for the longer-term fans too. Instead, the game rather annoyingly and arrogantly assumed that because I hadn't created any Mario levels in my life(which, coincidentally, I actually have!) that I shouldn't or wouldn't be allowed to use the later tools until I'd done a ton of creating in this game itself. Almost silly in itself, as the way they designed the designer actually gave rise to a fairly acceptable standard for the few short and basic levels I created, I felt. I took more issue later with the content that was actually available, the organisation systems etc. - lots more could have been done there but I didn't feel it let it down as much as this weird content lock on the maker that really got my goat after I'd picked up the game being rather excited. I mean all of this isn't really NX relevant per se - but I feel they need to be mindful of things like these and what gives the games their edges when they move forwards. I don't mind them trying to build games that are friendly to new players - but also consider making games that are also 'friendly'(or maybe even rather unfriendly) to the older and more seasoned players. For something such as Mario that's been such a part of my life for so long, what they did with Mario Maker really let me down for a number of reasons that I felt were due to losing focus on the audiences - which I think is something that's been felt about Nintendo as a whole over the last generation or two.

I dunno, I'd have to ask why if they've been such good games for this generation that the majority of them haven't managed to keep me interested past a few hours. The only one I find truly fresh for this generation was probably Splatoon(>100 hours). Even Smash for me didn't live up to its predecessors for reasons I'm still not sure if I can quite place - something was lost between Brawl and 4 I think. I'd say Mario Maker's the next up for mixing things up more than the others(barring Splatoon) but even then the stupid item/tool wall they put in assuming everyone was a Mario noob made me stop caring for the game.

Strange question - but is anyone really missing much by not getting on this as soon as it occurred? I've seen it for £30 already but was just thinking I've still got a ton of JC3 to play, and whilst I do want(and will probably prefer playing) this I should probably hold out and get an even better price on it - was just wondering how much I'd really miss out on though. I know obviously there was the whole naming planets thing, but other than that if there any pressing reasons to have had it in the launch window over later on in its life?

Don't worry you're still safe brah

I still say there's a technical hitch they're trying/hoping to overcome that's a notable barrier and so they've leaked it/let it be leaked to have the info out there whilst allowing them to officially remain silent for now. Iirc Nintendo have a slightly habit of staying quiet or ignoring the things they don't want to talk about - I remember seeing article(s) about how journalists would get shot down relatively quickly in interviews when they got on to topics of online, voice chat etc.

I paid my £15 for it, and tbh I was very hesitant but I've probably easily got my money's worth so far - and that's not even compared to how much some of you guys have put into it. I've played a fair few rumble matches now, I enjoy it so far. It's different but still feels the same and I don't mind it at all, different powerups doing different things and sometimes I feel like things are a bit jammy/unfair but really that's kinda rocket league all over anyway. Didn't realised first night I played it(had about 3-4 matches) that it Rumbles into even different arenas kinda like the Rocket Labs style, assumed it was just standard 3v3 plain maps so somewhat pleasantly surprised by the map mixups too. Am wondering about trying to play with friends at some point and see what co-ordination might bring in combination with the power-ups.

Damn! You got me!

Or what about a friend who could play the games with you? A sort of robot or something? We could call him...S.A.M(simulated artificial mate).

It is touches like that that make the series great, just want a bit more of the old school character back. I realise it's more the RPG/Superstars but I found Dream Team a bit droll and repetitive after a while so never got round to finishing it - I do wonder who they'll hide at the presumable end of that white block level, and also whether it'll be completable by both means...

Mine sounds a lot like yours, but I recently changed to the Journey theme. Not sure if it'd be different on any other themes. I preferred the black background though.

I'm presuming it's the gap in the white block and the clear black window behind the blocks, @Ashley. Been watching the Rescue Vs - good fun! Think preferred it more at the beginning and then I realised I didn't really/fully know what this game was saying. Watched that trailer with the slightly grinding voiceover - so it looks a lot like Sticker Star but on Wii U? Not sure how I'll feel about it if so. I did enjoy Sticker Star but it certainly felt lacking in places - I almost wish it'd spun into its own 'Sticker Mario' rather than Paper Mario brand; it seems that this game's following a lot of the same sort of gameplay but instead of maybe stickers from before you've got black and white things to paint, according to how much paint you've got in your RGB mixer; presumably affecting what items you can and can't use? It's certainly a nice novel idea on the surface, but I wonder on the bigger difference to gameplay. Things still look like the sort of Deus Ex Machinas they were in Sticker Star, which I found a bit tedious after a while(especially if you missed one). I'm not sure how the contexts match up here either. The Rescue Vs are reassuring as I did want Paper Marios to have a bit more character again, but this looks a bit limited/basic compared to previous titles in the series in that regard. Having said that I've always quite enjoyed the actual Paper Mario gameplay too - so I'll consider putting this on the list for later down the line when it's closer to £30 or so maybe. Then I'll probably buy it and never play it, lol.

Tbh I think given the NX prize for Splatoon, the leak etc that we pretty much know what the console's going to be. I imagine however, for some reason, there's some technical hold-up they're trying to work through(which could be the Tegra 2 chip if it's coming new to market? I dunno) and they can't really put themselves in any position until then. I hope however that when they DO reveal it they acknowledge the frustration of fans' wait, and if it was a technical issue they simply explain and apologise for it. No dressing up with any silly phrases or excuses('we just wanted to bring you the best machine we possibly could, and that takes time!') just a straight up honest reveal that acknowledges the wait and explains it as necessary.

Still not used to constant disappointments by now :p? Current word/speculation is October via dazzybee via Emily Rogers - so I'd say take that as the idea and sit tight til then, even if it just helps get through and pass the time. I'm thinking we won't see it this month at least.

There's a very big difference here as you well know - much of what was being shown and needed to be shown at the 'Meeting' were indeed things you could only truly get and appreciate by being there over watching at home. There is no live and present audience for a direct. Also @Ronnie you continue to use the term 'big numbers' whilst offering no definition!! Are you saying your prediction of 3-4million is, or is not, a 'big number'? All contradictions it seems. I can't understand how you can use a term like 'big numbers' without having a projected idea of it(even as ratio/proportions etc). I'm looking at it in SKU terms, and sure I agree with the latter - but it will be interesting to see the ratio of the two especially with the price difference. Will it be enough to tip over someone on the edge of going 4K? Will it even be enough to push them over the edge and actually go 4K now rather than later? As Daft's already said - he's one who's gone for both.

Enter my competition! The prize is....a games console! Interested??

I think the issue is how you can say something like 'big numbers' but not quantify it - tbh for a product like this I actually think 3-4million by year end may be pretty good numbers! The PS4's almost 2 years old, with 40 million sales at Mayish - getting 10% of that in a year for the PS4KPro is pretty good imo! Once old stock is done - we're looking at the Slim and the Pro as the two available market models right? I'd like to say the Slim would do better by a ratio of X:Y - but the price difference might make some go for the Pro over the Slim to future-proof the console. Do we think Sony will sell at the current rate, and another 20mil in the next year? If so, I'd probably go with a figure like Ronnie's and say 15-25% of them will be Pro models. Be interesting to see if we ever get a breakdown of the different SKU sales. Why is the meeting still bring branded as a presentation, when it's clearly been aimed to not be?

Never played Minecraft myself either(big Terraria fan tho) but the trailer does make me somewhat tempted for this! Something about that gather/build/forge etc sort of thing. Hopefully gives lots of options for re-playability and different paths(if that makes sense).

Tbh when I first saw your post I was very 'waaaaah?!' seeing Link on the background! I've only played a tiny bit on my PS4(he says, playing from 10 til 3 last night) and it feels a bit funny. Not sure about the Notification colour flip, preferred it the old way - and so far the bits I've seen of the quick menu and share - so many more options! Need to properly explore it a bit more, but so far I've just found it a bit overwhelming compared to the simplicities I was used to! Gonna look at it more this evening though. I was recently messing with themes etc so actually having a custom background might be something I'll take up.

The idea reminds me of a great article I read once that was essentially 'Why play on hard?' with the gist of actually playing on easier instead of punishing one's self unless you really wanted to. It's not often that I actually play games that frustrate me!! I've found as I've gotten older I find the old rote learn and repeat game model really quite very tedious, and I end up not bothering(so like Dark Souls etc just not for me). I can just about stomach it in rhythm games to an extent though - gave Bit.Trip Runner particularly(a few of the other Bit.Trips but not as much) quite a good long go even though I wasn't good, as well as a bit of one of the Guitar Heroes. I think if you're having quite a repetitive and frustrating game the key is to make it definitely solvable/not too random, and more importantly really invoke that 'one more go' feel and make the one more go very easy to accomplish. Bit.Trip.Runner does this by making the return to the start so swift and doesn't actually give you any quit option between failures, GH gives you easy/quick retry options - you need to keep downtime...down! The only other thing that might keep me going at a game I'm bad at would probably be social aspects/playing with friends. I wasn't a particular Halo pro even after clocking days of playtime - but I played a lot because my friends might come on and it was a good social avenue. So yeah...soz can't think of any particular games I was bad at yet kept on at since I was a kid(where I'd play to death simply because I had no other option) but maybe it's just because I can't stomach it!

Can eradicate the ambiguity by providing your definition of 'big numbers' for this in advance....? I'd agree with that - and I think the PS4Pro is going to do better than some people expect. I think a number of us here aren't big 4k techheads etc but there's a good few of them out there, and I think a lot of them are likely to be into Sony products. I think it's just like us attempting to comment on the general public/'non-core' gamers when it's just a demographic we don't get or aren't part of. I think PS4 will definitely have the most sales of this Christmas season across models, possibly seeing quite a jump in the presumably now cheaper older hardware models. I've just come to realise I can actually probably get a PS4 for the same as, if not less, than a WiiU right now. That's mad!! Personally, I don't. Then again - I didn't have a HDTV to use until 2009; can you imagine my years playing the 360 on an old CRT?! Christ it was horrible in comparison - but then I didn't know the better world until I experienced it. I don't think I'll be getting anything 4k until it's just become an absolute industry standard and I can't actually buy a TV without it(and I've for some reason got the need to buy a new TV).

I don't think the point/idea of it would be for Nintendo games. I'm with Glen-I though - it's ridiculous! Just far more money to be had in the current model really. Going down the PS+ model is probably the best balance of the two - but again something like that needs to have a decent amount of storage to back it up.

I had one from Indian Trophy Hunters and some stupid group about lad bantz wahaay.

I'm also still thoroughly confused by your even, once again, "Nintendo Gamers" quote - I haven't used that phrase. I may also be missing it as it seems something's gone wrong here - but I can't find this place/point where Hogge is talking about people being 'understandably being pissed off'. Other than the MFF point, everything else reads speculative/hypothetically to me. Anyway take an example - if I said that people wanted voice chat, or if I said owners of Nintendo systems wanted voice chat - would you ask who? Or come out with a question like 'all of them??' - it's bizarre to assume a general statement would be so specific to 100%. I don't think you'd do it for anything else, I didn't understand why you were for this. I felt Hogge was, as I said, referring to owners of Nintendo consoles in teh context of people who might be annoyed if suddenly there was a huge increase in mobile output without a similar increase in output on other Nintendo hardware. I assumed your 'WHO exactly do you think will give a shit' was in that context - given it wasn't attached to a particular quote or anything, was future tense and followed straight on from his post on that point. As Hogge said - if they made 10 AAA mobile games AND kept up content on other Nintendo hardware, probably no one would bat an eyelid. However if they didn't continue to support or appear as if they were supporting their other hardware or it was getting sidelined, people might get disgruntled. But again - if you're after specific examples of people for these hypotheticals I don't know how to get them for you without polling every single person on that point. I can however, offer again the least of saying I myself would, most likely in that situation, become annoyed. I don't think it's a situation that's actually going to occur as of how things are right now, but if it did I can see people being annoyed with it. Tbh I think SMR is a good thing for now and most of all as I said I think it's a good way for them to test their markets and in particular different pricing models(they've attempted freemium for example) whereas this will be a flat price game without IAP - something I'm not sure how much they've done before and on what scale(ie this is bigger imo due to it being a brand like Mario).

First off - get shot of that mythical quote of me lumping 'nintendo gamers' into on category. Why are you sticking quote marks around things I haven't even said? Seriously, find me that quote where I've used that term in this context/conversation and I'll allow it - but right now it looks like if anyone's being provocative it's you. dazzy - by your own admission the idea of them being lumped into a category of all is strange - yet you're the one seemingly making the assumptions about it being a group of 'all' - when I haven't seen anyone speak in such specific terms! The only person I see bringing up this mysterious group of all or nothing is you, not me or Hogge! I felt Hogge was clearly talking generally - and I should have thought it clear I was too! For example - having 'reason for people to be displeased' is NOT the same as saying 'people are displeased!!' and certainly NOT saying 'ALL the people are displeased!! No exceptions!!' Hogge's also given at least one hypothetical situation - I'm not sure how anyone on this forum can exactly be annoyed at that(your argument made); or rather who other than a select few would truly be choose to get annoyed at that. Why does this have to be a group of all or nothing for you, is my question? I don't see where Hogge has been that specific, and see zero reason to assume he's talking about a category of all or nothing. However a question such as 'WHO exactly do you think will give a shit?' seemed to imply you had no idea who he was referencing. You clearly recognise the hypothetical nature of his arguments anyway, as you posed said question in the future tense. Now - is the question literal, as in you want specific examples of every single possible person, specific examples or every single possible demographic, or just a general explanation of the group of possible people to whom was being referred, or are you making the argument just for the sake of it and trying to squeeze a false dichotomy in there, or even something else I've missed? I'd say the first two are unrealistic, I'm hoping the last two not the case. Going with the third option of you not understanding to whom he was referencing - I gave you what I thought was the general category of people to whom his points were seemingly applicable. I again see absolutely zero reason to assume anyone has suddenly started talking in 100% all or nothing terms though. You're the one to bring that up. I'm happy to engage in conversation, and was doing so, but I'm not going to do it if it's going to be sidelined into all or nothings when it never seemed to be that anyone else was doing that. They're really not. They may be questioning this ONE controvertial release but no one is thinking that development of mobile games is to blame - to even try to and suggest this one release as a serious problem for Nintendo is, quite simply, ill-thoughtout. As above - to say that 'people are questioning the quality of their releases' isn't exactly the same as saying 'this is a serious problem for Nintendo'. I'm seeing some of the responses to Hogge and it seems like people are strangely putting a lot more words into his mouth than what I'm reading! Right now I'm obviously not fussed, as it's a hypothetical. However if their mobile output did increase a lot more without seeing much output on other Nintendo hardware owned - yeah I'd probably start to wonder and possibly get annoyed at a loss of focus. I've already had some disillusionment with the Wii U due to decisions made and lack of general output on the system as a whole(again, this one isn't Nintendo-developer specific, but Nintendo-as-system-maker specific). I certainly do feel like nothing in particular has appealed to me on either 3DS or Wii U as much recently.