Xbox Series S | X Console Discussion

[Happenstance]

4 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/more-than-70-guerrilla-developers-worked-on-death-stranding/

They played a very significant role in its development.  It was almost as much their game as it was Kojima Productions'.

Nah, you spelt Guerilla wrong so I'm taking it as a win

[Julius]

1 hour ago, Happenstance said:

Nah, you spelt Guerilla wrong so I'm taking it as a win

Quote

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/more-than-70-guerrilla-developers-worked-on-death-stranding/

Quote

guerrilla

Quote

Anywho...I like to think that Horizon 2 is on the cards in that first year, if not necessarily at launch.

@Dcubed, you mentioned the PC ports being worked on as perhaps being a reason for not seeing it anytime soon, but considering that only ports of Death Stranding and Horizon Zero Dawn are being worked on at this time (that we know of), I get the feeling that the Decima Engine perhaps is just much easier to port over to PC than other engines PlayStation's first parties work on. 

No doubt they worked heavily on Death Stranding to some degree just considering that they had to help Kojima Productions become accustomed to the engine at a bare minimum, but they seem a team both large and driven enough to have potentially turned around a sequel by November, over 3.5 years since Horizon launched. Of course it depends on exactly how cutting edge they're going, and what exactly they're doing differently this time around - the potential for flying atop robotic dinosaurs is potentially a massive undertaking - but that seems a reasonable timeframe to me, if not have it release by the end of the first year of the PS5 (4.5+ years after the original game launched). 

I agree with @Ronnie and have mentioned it myself a few times previously, and maybe it's my optimistic outlook with some things like this, but as I feel everyone has said: PlayStation has not announced a new first party AAA title since towards the end of 2017. I find it extremely hard to believe that they've been quiet this long to have nothing to talk about when they start ramping up the PS5 hype cycle - again, not expecting Spider-Man 2 or God of War II at launch, but I think it's very feasible that they're at least teased as sort of a signal of intent by Sony to players for them to invest: "we have more great games coming and sequels to those you already love, so feel safe buying a PS5" - and I think the last major title they unveiled was Ghost of Tsushima, back at Paris Games Week in October 2017? I don't think it's a coincidence that they're keeping quiet about PS5 and pushing that game and The Last of Us Part II so incredibly hard as a great way for the PS4 to bow out...

...because I do think that the PS4 bows out this winter. Hard. But only really when it comes to AAA first party offerings, and as you mentioned before, the reason why I find the idea of a Demon's Souls Remake particularly weird as a game to launch the PS5 is that it's a remake of a PS3 game which, to my knowledge at least (as someone who has not played the game, but has seen plenty of gameplay videos of From Software games), wouldn't do anything that couldn't run on a PS4. 

Jason Schreier mentioned it a while back on a podcast in passing, but third parties and Xbox seem to be the only ones focusing on cross-gen support (and Xbox being cross-gen and on PC I feel is shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to hardware sales).

PlayStation have, I feel, been very clear with their messaging so far in that they want to still have clear generational gaps between consoles, the idea that the PS5 will do things that the PS4 just can't, and that's why I expect Horizon 2 to push the boundaries in some way with that potential flying mechanic, or how about the moment-to-moment physics calculations which have been mentioned a number of times regarding Spider-Man which would potentially have his momentum be used to more accurately calculate his swinging?

And speaking of Spider-Man 2, considering how completely nuts that game sold, I imagine that PlayStation pushed for a sequel early on with Insomniac (and I mean, why wouldn't Insomniac be doing that anyways?), and had it not been for COVID, I don't think it would have been too crazy to have it released by the end of 2021 (now whether they would do that so early on into the life of the PS5 I suppose is the most questionable part). It will likely take place in New York again, the map will be updated, there will be a new story, a bunch of new mechanics and side activities, and the engine will likely be tweaked for better physics-based calculations...3 years to turn that around doesn't seem too crazy to me. Unless we're going somewhere else, they've got an incredibly solid foundation already. 

Definitely get the feeling that God of War II would take the longest considering that new realms means a lot of new world design, etc., just considering how drastically different the realms were to one another in the first game. I definitely feel like that's the biggest challenge and what will take the longest, though, because I was actually revisiting some of Cory Barlog's interviews and spoiler talks during his press visits after the last game released, and it's very, very clear that even if the game itself will take a while to develop, that pre-production was well underway, considering that he heavily hinted a number of times that Kratos' and Atreus' arcs and big story beats are already planned. 

But anyway, I digress, and this is the Xbox thread after all. Like I said before, I'm just not sure what pocket Xbox can fill, especially until they drop the cross-gen support on first party titles! As @Ronnie mentioned, their consoles are very well crafted and made with power in mind, but I struggle to see myself picking up a Series X for the foreseeable future unless there's an experience there that I can't have anywhere else - and considering that they're adamant about continuing One (X) and PC support, I'm not expecting to pick one up anytime soon, unfortunately. I'm in a weird position where I really want them to give me a strong reason to buy one other than playing the Halo games for the first time, but they haven't quite hit that note yet. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Julius

[Goron_3]

I geuinely think this will be the first console generation where each console maker will be hugely successful. I expect Microsoft to sell the fewest number of consoles overall but even then I think they'll make a lot of money. It's a great time to be a gamer imo.

As for the Xbox - if the Lockhart edition exists then it's going to be a great option for those who purchase a PS5 as there main console.

[Happenstance]

Sorry, Gorilla

[Sheikah]

There's absolutely no real reason to choose PS5 over Series X outside of Sony's exclusive titles. 

So just the main reason for picking one console over the other, then.

That's like saying "there's absolutely no reason to pick PS5 over Series X, unless you want to play video games!" [emoji14]

[Dcubed]

11 hours ago, Sheikah said:

So just the main reason for picking one console over the other, then.

That's like saying "there's absolutely no reason to pick PS5 over Series X, unless you want to play video games!"

 

Maybe in a couple of years or so, when Sony actually start releasing titles for the console  

Until then? Might as well be an expensive brick that you're buying.

[Glen-i]

30 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Until then? Might as well be an expensive brick that you're buying.

And that's my annual contribution to the Other Consoles board done!

Spoiler

Don't worry, only joking... Kinda...

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Glen-i

[Sheikah]

46 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Maybe in a couple of years or so, when Sony actually start releasing titles for the console  

Until then? Might as well be an expensive brick that you're buying.

Well that's just not true, is it? If you're going to buy one anyway at some point during the generation then it makes sense to pick one up sooner rather than later. It will play all PS4 games from the outset and will boost the top 100 most played. And you'll be able to play new titles and any cross gen titles with better performance than the last gen. The use of SSDs in the next gen consoles by all accounts sounds remarkable.

If you think it's a waste of money to buy at launch then bear in mind it took a whole 2 years from release of the PS4 to receive a paltry 50 pound price cut. I think it makes sense to either buy early and get the console benefits the longest, or buy late in the generation when the console and games are much cheaper. Buying a couple of years in doesn't really make sense on paper this time, especially with backwards compatibility being a thing now.

And regardless, even if it took a couple of years for the games to come on PS5, that's not a reason I would consider to pick the Series X. Better to wait 2 years for good exclusive games to come than infinite years.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Sheikah

[Goron_3]

Sony would have to massively drop the ball in order for me not to pick one up at launch, especially given it will play and boost PS4 games. I haven't played games like God of War or Spiderman, and I'm half tempted to wait until the PS5 is out before I touch GoT which comes out soon. 

That said, Microsoft are doing a great job. Quite often a poorly selling console leads to innovation, and we're seeing it again here with Microsoft who are unrecognisable from the team that launched the XBO back in 2013.

[Ronnie]

15 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

It will play all PS4 games from the outset

Is this true? 

Sony's muddled the messaging on PS5 backwards compatibility so much I have no idea anymore.

Xbox destroyed them yesterday with their stance on it.

 

[Sheikah]

1 minute ago, Ronnie said:

Is this true? 

Sony's muddled the messaging on PS5 backwards compatibility so much I have no idea anymore.

Xbox destroyed them yesterday with their stance on it.

 

Yes it is true. Sony did mess that up in the way they phrased the initial announcement (IMO) but they later clarified it. It will play all PS4 games, and boost the top 100 most played at launch.

I wouldn't really say Xbox destroyed them - backwards compatibility with games from systems before Xbox One really isn't really necessary here. What both companies need is a bridge between the current generation and the next generation to entice people to get on board right away. Being able to play really old games is a nice to have feature but ultimately won't even register on most people's radars.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Sheikah

[Ronnie]

1 minute ago, Sheikah said:

but they later clarified it

They clarified that it expects the "overwhelming majority" of games to be compatible. We'll see if that means "all PS4 games from the outset".

A quick Google search shows articles in the last 24 hours:

PS5 Fans Are Panicking Over Backwards Compatibility

PS5 backwards compatibility will let you play "supported PS4 games with system update"

Bad time for this to come out when Xbox laid out it's excellent BC plans so clearly.

[Sheikah]

10 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

They clarified that it expects the "overwhelming majority" of games to be compatible. We'll see if that means "all PS4 games from the outset".

A quick Google search shows articles in the last 24 hours:

PS5 Fans Are Panicking Over Backwards Compatibility

PS5 backwards compatibility will let you play "supported PS4 games with system update"

Bad time for this to come out when Xbox laid out it's excellent BC plans so clearly.

Those sources don't seem to acknowledge the clarification below. Although I do take your point that it shouldn't be up to the consumer to research it, it should be made clear.

(source)

 

That said, PS5 hasn't even been revealed yet, so there is no rush. Their expected conference in June should make all this clear, which is fine.

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Sheikah

[Dcubed]

Just now, Sheikah said:

You didn't research well enough. Although I do take your point that it shouldn't be up to the consumer to research it, it should be made clear.

(source)

 

That said, PS5 hasn't even been revealed yet, so there is no rush. Their expected conference in June should make all this clear, which is fine.

 

With that much spin, you’re gonna make yourself dizzy!  

[Ronnie]

1 minute ago, Sheikah said:

You didn't research well enough.

...

10 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

They clarified that it expects the "overwhelming majority" of games to be compatible.

We'll see if that means "all games from the outset".

[Sheikah]

1 minute ago, Dcubed said:

With that much spin, you’re gonna make yourself dizzy!  

What spin? The guy in charge at Sony has confirmed the overwhelming majority of 4,000 titles will be playable at launch?

[Sheikah]

15 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

...

We'll see if that means "all games from the outset".

If you look back, I only ever pointed out that the PS5 will play "all" PS4 games as a reason to justify a launch PS5 purchase, as Dcubed was suggesting it would be a "brick" at launch, which clearly it wouldn't. He knows that, but he won't admit it.

Whether it plays 4,000 games or 3,790 at launch doesn't really take away from the point I was making. It's going to play the top 100 most played PS4 games at the very least, so I can imagine if there are some difficult to emulate titles that won't run at launch that it's probably not going to affect that many people.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Sheikah

[Ronnie]

Or it could play 200 games at launch with more being added every month until a few years down the line the "overwhelming majority" will be supported. Like Xbox did this gen. It's not very clear from Playstation so I don't think it helps to say that "all PS4 games will be playable at launch" until we know for sure.

[Sheikah]

11 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Or it could play 200 games at launch with more being added every month until a few years down the line the "overwhelming majority" will be supported. Like Xbox did this gen. It's not very clear from Playstation so I don't think it helps to say that "all PS4 games will be playable at launch" until we know for sure.

That's fair enough actually, I hadn't appreciated that the word "launch" was missing from the clarification.

If that's the case, Microsoft's BC offering will no doubt be superior. That said, I just don't see most people caring too much. If Sony can get a large cohort of current and popular games running at launch (including the 100 most played) that will satisfy most people, truth be told. Despite all Microsoft's efforts with BC this gen, we never saw that actually amount to a tipping of the scales.

I would say that Sony's attitude to BC is probably different to Microsoft. Microsoft are clearly establishing themselves as the company delivering exhaustive BC to give them a unique selling point. For Sony, I feel it's probably purely something they're doing to ease the transition of people going from PS4 to PS5.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Sheikah

[Dcubed]

Oh dear...

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-05-29-new-ps4-games-must-be-playstation-5-compatible-from-july-sony-tells-devs

Quote

Sony has told PlayStation 4 game developers that any new titles submitted for certification must also be compatible with PlayStation 5, beginning 13th July.

This means all PS4 games received by Sony for testing after the middle of that month are technically forwards compatible - playable on Sony's next-gen console - though it is up to each game's developer to ensure this is the case.

Sony has told developers it will contact them individually with details on how to test PS5 compatibility, in the order of their various projects' release...

 

...If a game was originally submitted to Sony before 13th July 2020, any new patch or remaster after that date would not require PS5 compatibility, but it would be "strongly recommended".

If a game was originally submitted to Sony after 13th July 2020, any future patch or remaster to that game would need to keep PS5 compatibility. Once a game is PS5 compatible, it must stay so.

Developers need to manually port their games over to PS5; it's not automatic... Good luck spinning that one!

4 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Or it could play 200 games at launch with more being added every month until a few years down the line the "overwhelming majority" will be supported. Like Xbox did this gen. It's not very clear from Playstation so I don't think it helps to say that "all PS4 games will be playable at launch" until we know for sure.

Sounds like Ronnie was right on the money.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Dcubed

[Goron_3]

55 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Oh dear...

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-05-29-new-ps4-games-must-be-playstation-5-compatible-from-july-sony-tells-devs

Developers need to manually port their games over to PS5; it's not automatic... Good luck spinning that one!

Sounds like Ronnie was right on the money.

I don't see what the issue is? They did this with the Pro remember. Essentially, any game that comes out from July must be tested by the developer and not Sony. This is...pretty much what everyone expected?

[Sheikah]

 

Sounds like Ronnie was right on the money.

That's not for definite though, for all we know they might have optimised most the games from before this date come launch, but now they're stipulating it as a requirement for new games being developed. Time will tell whether the "overwhelming majority" being supported will be available at launch or down the line.

 

As I said before though, backwards compatibility beyond a certain point is generally a nice to have but not essential thing. It's a great thing to have for PS4 games that people play a lot right now so that they can transition easily.

[Ronnie]

Seems like Playstation are a generation behind the game. As Xbox have been gloating about, it'll have thousands of backwards compatible games ready for launch, improved and running better on the new hardware.

From what I can gather by their terrible messaging, Sony are doing what Xbox did last gen and picking and choosing what legacy games to update, manually. But again, who knows, that's just a guess at this point, even after two statements we still don't know the full story. Maybe at next week's presentation we'll know more, or the one after more likely.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Ronnie

[Fierce_LiNk]

The Xbox BC stuff sounds interesting. 

No, it doesn't tempt me to get an Xbox. 

[Sheikah]

I'm just going to leave this here as well.

[Source].

Microsoft would do well to invest the time and money into developing exclusives instead of pursuing such comprehensive BC, in my opinion.