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Playstation 5 Console Discussion (Nov 19 EU)

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3 minutes ago, Aneres11 said:

I have no incentive to upgrade my ps4 yet. All the tatsy games I liked the look of in show case 1 are coming to PS4 (minus Ratchett) so there's very little reason to buy the new console for me yet. Maybe later next year I'll go for it. 

Fair enough :) 

There's no reason to get a new console if the games don't appeal to you. For me, there's quite a lot I'm interested in so an upgrade makes sense.

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1 hour ago, Rummy said:

Does anyone know if they're helping or courting any indies to get a small but decent marketplace of digital titles etc available on launch? I need to look into this ps+ collection gamepass thing or so people were talking about?

No idea on specifics but I know some of the people that do this for Sony, I'd expect there will be a decent amount of smaller titles available at launch in addition to the PS+ Collection.

1 hour ago, Rummy said:

Essentially too are all current ps4 marketplace(or say 90-95%+) downloadable titles also going to be just as playable on ps5? ie if i can buy something on ps4 at ps5 launch can i buy all those same things off the digital marketplace and have them play on ps5?

Anything that launched or was updated on PS4 after July 13th will definitely work as PS5 compatibility became a requirement for approval from then. I'd be pretty confident on anything worth buying will also work, but wouldn't be assured.

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14 minutes ago, Aneres11 said:

I have no incentive to upgrade my ps4 yet. All the tatsy games I liked the look of in show case 1 are coming to PS4 (minus Ratchett) so there's very little reason to buy the new console for me yet. Maybe later next year I'll go for it. 

Yeah I'm in a similar boat, though I did actually pre-order one. Not sure why though, it's just really Spider-Man at launch and even that's not massively appealing ::shrug: It did look pretty though.

I was hoping for a proper revamp of their PS+ service but if it's just PS4 games I've already played then I won't bother with that. Disappointing.

Edited by Ronnie
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15 minutes ago, drahkon said:

Fair enough :) 

There's no reason to get a new console if the games don't appeal to you. For me, there's quite a lot I'm interested in so an upgrade makes sense.

No to be fair there's a lot announced I can't wait for. But most of them are PS4 too so for me it seems silly biting just yet. Personally speaking. 

Once the PS5 only games start rolling out is when I'll be happy to jump on it. 🙏🏻

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2 minutes ago, Aneres11 said:

But most of them are PS4 too so for me it seems silly biting just yet. Personally speaking. 

That's also fair. With some games also coming to PS4, it's nice to have the option :) 

2 minutes ago, Aneres11 said:

Once the PS5 only games start rolling out is when I'll be happy to jump on it. 🙏🏻

:peace: 

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Yeah Sony U-turning their "We believe in generations" statement has made a few people question the need to get a PS5 at launch. Maybe they know hardware numbers will be seriously limited.

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Interesting article at Eurogamer...

Quote

PS5 is a surefire hit, but Sony's broken promises are eroding trust

As the PlayStation 5 showcase ended, with aggressive price points for both the PS5 and its Digital Edition, a staggered release date (we get it a week later than the US, which is a shame but in the current circumstances I understand), and the announcement of Final Fantasy 16, the next God of War and, most exciting of all, a decent look at the wondrous Demon's Souls running on PS5, I was feeling pretty good about the whole thing. Pumped, even.

And then, almost as quickly as the show ended, reality bit. In just a few tweets Geoff Keighley became a better Sony spokesperson than anyone on the company's PR team, announcing that, actually, some of these fancy games we had thought were PS5 exclusives... weren't.

First up, the revelation that Spider-Man: Miles Morales, which looked great running on PS5 during the show, is also coming to PlayStation 4. Huh.

Then the biggest bombshell: Horizon: Forbidden West, Guerrilla's hotly anticipated PS5 showcase, is also coming to PS4. Huh!

 

Quote

Then a kerfuffle about Demon's Souls, which, the PS5 showcase event told us, was not available on "other consoles" for a limited time, and was also available on PC. Did that mean it was set for PS4?

Remarkably, Sony pulled its trailer from the PlayStation YouTube channel, re-uploading it to remove mention of PC. This was "human error", we were told.

Last night, there was a lot of human error flying around at Sony, wasn't there?

What happened to all Sony's guff about believing in generations? It was a load of old rubbish, it seems. Whether you believe in Microsoft's philosophy of launching its games across generations (I have concerns about the Xbox One holding games back, as I know some in the development community do), at least the company was honest about it.

 

Quote

In August, Sony confirmed the PS4 Dualshock won't work with PS5 games. Explaining its decision, Sony said it believed "PS5 games should take advantage of the new capabilities and features we're bringing to the platform, including the features of DualSense wireless controller".

Well, if Spider-Man: Miles Morales is coming out on PS4, why can't you play it on a PS5 with a DualShock?

 

Quote

But the worst thing about all this is Sony's broken promise about PS5 pre-orders. In August, Sony said it wouldn't surprise-reveal PS5 pre-orders. "I think it's safe to say, we'll let you know when pre-orders will happen," PlayStation worldwide marketing head, Eric Lempel said.

"It's not going to happen with a minute's notice. We're going to at some point let you know when you can pre-order a PlayStation 5 so please don't feel like you have to go run and line up anywhere until you receive official notice on how that will work."

Last night, shortly after Sony's PS5 showcase ended, pre-orders opened up at select retailers, and fans scrambled to put their money down. Pre-orders literally went live before Sony made an official announcement that they were going live. That doesn't sound like a minute's notice to me.

More here: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-09-17-ps5-is-a-surefire-hit-but-sonys-broken-promises-are-eroding-trust

Edited by Ronnie
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It's a good article and the points it makes are all true. I get it if Sony decided that for the first year or so, they've changed their mind for some games but they should really explain that U-turn better and explain why they have gone back on what they said. For Spiderman it seems forgiveable since that was always a reworked PS4 title but there isn't much excuse for Horizon.

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1 minute ago, Sheikah said:

It's a good article and the points it makes are all true. I get it if Sony decided that for the first year or so, they've changed their mind for some games but they should really explain that U-turn better and explain why they have gone back on what they said.

What exactly did they say at first? I can only recall something akin to "We believe in a generational leap". This doesn't necessarily mean that they wouldn't support PS4 for a while. 

And before some people throw a fit: I'm not defending Sony, I just want to know what was said.

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Yeah it's a weird one. 

Think news outlets are probably running with it a bit far, just as they did with Xbox (which was a weird one too, but here 'eroding trust' seems a little OTT to me - if anything you've just got people holding back on picking up a PS5), but hey, they've got to make a living, and all the points it raises are true. Just feels like pouring fuel onto a conversation I think most are tired of by this point, but oh well ::shrug:

Secured the Charging Stand from ShopTo, so I am good to go on the hardware side of things! Now just got to wait for the games to drop :D

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What exactly did they say at first? I can only recall something akin to "We believe in a generational leap". This doesn't necessarily mean that they wouldn't support PS4 for a while. 

And before some people throw a fit: I'm not defending Sony, I just want to know what was said.

Nicked from somewhere:

 

PlayStation global marketing head Eric Lempel said: “As we’ve said many times, with PlayStation 5 it’s a brand new generation, and we believe in generations. So we want to evolve every part of the experience.”

 

They can't believe 100% in generations if they are not cutting off the last generation IMO. And also remember that talk from Mark Cerny about how levels traditionally had to be designed in such a way to allow your levels to load the next area in time. Presumably because Horizon needs to support the PS4 version, we won't see this new game design.

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The biggest thing I'm excited for with PS5 is the controller. Think it looks so good. 

I imagine it being very comfortable in the hand which has always been my biggest complaint with the DS4. 

I'm all about improved haptics too. Although hopefully they're better than the haptics in my Sony phone, as they're dreadful for a phone costing £1000 😁. 

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4 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

Nicked from somewhere:

 

PlayStation global marketing head Eric Lempel said: “As we’ve said many times, with PlayStation 5 it’s a brand new generation, and we believe in generations. So we want to evolve every part of the experience.”

 

They can't believe 100% in generations if they are not cutting off the last generation IMO. And also remember that talk from Mark Cerny about how levels traditionally had to be designed in such a way to allow your levels to load the next area in time. Presumably because Horizon needs to support the PS4 version, we won't see this new game design.

The quote doesn't necessarily mean they've always been going 100% for the new generation. Anyways, Sony definitely made life harder for themselves. Gonna be interesting to see how they sell the PS5 versions compared to the PS4 ones.

 

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8 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

Nicked from somewhere:

 

PlayStation global marketing head Eric Lempel said: “As we’ve said many times, with PlayStation 5 it’s a brand new generation, and we believe in generations. So we want to evolve every part of the experience.”

 

They can't believe 100% in generations if they are not cutting off the last generation IMO. And also remember that talk from Mark Cerny about how levels traditionally had to be designed in such a way to allow your levels to load the next area in time. Presumably because Horizon needs to support the PS4 version, we won't see this new game design.

I mean, worth noting that this is a PR/marketing guy, and the very same one who said there'd be plenty of notice about pre-orders going live. That's a load of marketing fluff ::shrug:

I've seen more complaints about that, and rightly so, in my opinion. "pre-orders will go live tomorrow" not being shown at the end of the Showcase, retailers having pre-orders going up only an hour after the Showcase, and people waking up to it being sold out. That and the lack of clarity on what would be there at launch during the Showcase was so weird to me. Biggest missteps for me of their marketing campaign. 

Like I've mentioned before, PlayStation's marketing of these games coming to PS4 (or rather, lack thereof?) is what makes this strike differently, at least to me, when compared with Xbox, even if it is essentially the same thing.

They didn't mention it during the Showcase or before this for that very reason, so perhaps it is disingenuous to an extent, but let's not pretend that first party experiences already available on PS4 and Pro weren't already of the highest calibre, and with consistent hit after hit. This will just be the best way to play them. Remember, Sony has much more riding on PlayStation than Microsoft does Xbox, and those 112.1 million PS4's in the wild not getting support of some kind would be leaving money on the table. 

Guess we have reason to doubt being able to ride mechanical dinos in Horizon now though, as Guerrilla mentioned it wouldn't be possible on PS4, which is my biggest takeaway from this. I was hyped for that possibility!

Edited by Julius

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7 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

Nicked from somewhere:

 

PlayStation global marketing head Eric Lempel said: “As we’ve said many times, with PlayStation 5 it’s a brand new generation, and we believe in generations. So we want to evolve every part of the experience.”

 

They can't believe 100% in generations if they are not cutting off the last generation IMO. And also remember that talk from Mark Cerny about how levels traditionally had to be designed in such a way to allow your levels to load the next area in time. Presumably because Horizon needs to support the PS4 version, we won't see this new game design.

Head of marketing basically coming out with standard marketing bollocks then. I think people read far too much into these statements.

Anyway I've pre-ordered since the price is nice. 

 
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2 hours ago, Rummy said:

Does anyone know if they're helping or courting any indies to get a small but decent marketplace of digital titles etc available on launch? I need to look into this ps+ collection gamepass thing or so people were talking about?

Essentially too are all current ps4 marketplace(or say 90-95%+) downloadable titles also going to be just as playable on ps5? ie if i can buy something on ps4 at ps5 launch can i buy all those same things off the digital marketplace and have them play on ps5?

To add to what @Will said, Shuhei Yoshida is now in charge of that area and last year went on a large trip around smaller indie dev studios, talking to them about what they could do to help with getting them on board and signing up some in exclusivity deals just as Sony have been doing more generally with bigger third party developers (like with Arkane with Deathloop). I can't remember exact names for studios but I distinctly remember seeing a picture of Yoshida with Mike Bithell of Bithell Games (presumably which led to John Wick Hex releasing on PS4) but there was plenty of that last year. So I think we'll see more of that in the coming weeks and in the months to come post launch also. We've seen a tiny slice of that with the June Showcase so there's definitely some stuff in the works beyond Kena, Pathless, that Jett game by the guys behind Superbrothers and the few others in that showcase.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of fhe studios they've talked to indie wise would be Team Cherry. Getting Hollow Knight Silksong on the PS5 as close to the PC and Switch release would be high up on their list because of the critical and commercial success of the original and just how big of a game the sequel is likely to be.

On the subject of PS5 games getting PS4 releases, there's nothing wrong with it and I don't think it really detracts from their message. Miles Morales is being built on the engine of the PS4 game so its a no brainer, especially with how well that original sold. Not putting it on PS4 would be cutting off your nose to spite your face level of idiocy so it's just plain good business sense when there's likely to be a shortage of PS5s around launch and into next year so why not pick up some of those who haven't been able to upgrade their hardware with no games.

Sackboy and Horizon are interesting cases similarly make good business sense to release cross gen. Sackboy, while being a launch title, probably won't sell as well as both Miles Morales nor Demon Souls. From that perspective alone, similarly with Miles Morales, putting it out on PS4 gives those gamers a new experience to play this holiday season but also helps to recoup cost of development that might not otherwise have been achieved by launching exclusively on PS5. Even if it got 9s and 10s in reviews, people's attention will be to the two other games I mentioned, especially with how long Sackboy/LittleBigPlanet has rested this generation after the release of the third game which wasn't as well received.

Horizon Forbidden West will be running on a modified version of the Decima engine so scalability is already (IIRC, Guerrilla Games have already talked up how scalable that engine is). First and foremost it'll be being developed as a PS5 title but everything will be done such that it can be scaled for PS4 play. That doesn't mean it won't take advantage of the hardware of the PS5. On the contrary, I expect it'll make use of the various new technologies to put out a gorgeous game. Its more that they'll making a slightly scaled back version for the PS4 which won't have the benefits of the new hardware. No gimping of the PS5 version or anything like that, just spreading the joy.

Maybe they're expecting slower uptake for rhe hardware beyond the end of the fiscal year (a reasonable assumption for all new hardware this year as early buyers will have been set in stone for a ages for pick up, the wider audience might take a bit longer with the higher price of console and game into the second half of next year) as a result of the pandemic so again, putting it out on existing hardware is a solid business plan as people don't have to upgrade to play it but there will be benefits if you do. I don't expect it to be quite how Microsoft are doing their initially wave of games for their Xbox consoles.

The announcement of the PS Plus Collection adds another thread to that possibility of maybe expecting a slightly slower uptake beyond the current fiscal year due to financial constraints on consumers resulting from the pandemic and possibly because they can't meet demand for the hardware. This is a great addition that gives those who maybe haven't spread themselves as wide on the PS4 something new to play that they might not have already played at no extra cost while also acting as a great way to combat backwards compat issues for those purchasing the digital console. Its lineup is also primarily first party and third party AAA games so it has a slight uptick over Gamepass which will likely focus more on smaller/intermediate size titles as publishers push harder for a bigger chunk of change from Microsoft to get their games on the service (I expect we'll see a not unsubstantial increase in the cost of Gamepass in the next 12 months).

Anyway, I've had to shown so much restraint from sticking in a pre-order. I had it sitting there on Amazon for the digital but didn't pull the trigger as although I really, really want to upgrade out of the gate, I can't knowingly do that currently without knowing what my financial status will be like closer to November and whether there'll be any further lockdown effects and such. But God damn it was hard not to put that pre-order in. Trying not to cave when they go live with Argos tomorrow morning.

Edited by Ganepark32
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@Cookyman for your ShopTo pre-order, just a heads-up, just need to go into 'Pre-Orders' on your account and you just need to confirm it. Think you have until 24/09 to do so? Seems like ShopTo has done a good job if that's the case, though they do say it doesn't guarantee stock on Day 1...

Will be sticking with GAME myself I think just to be on the safe side :peace:

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Head of marketing basically coming out with standard marketing bollocks then. I think people read far too much into these statements.
Anyway I've pre-ordered since the price is nice. 
 
It's not just that though, I mean they've only just announced the PS4 version of Horizon so they've been giving the next gen impression up until now. Mark Cerny giving that talk about how PS5 allows all this new game design as well but not following through...not a great look.

Mind you Microsoft have been inconsistent with their messaging here too, so Sony aren't alone.

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Tbh all this PS4 stuff/complaints from folks confuse me a bit - the PS4 install base is huge and the numbers are still growing as the console remains popular(again I still have people interest in adopting who don't usually - like gaming is expanding into less common gamers and Sony seem to be taking their fancy). Doesn't PS4 have some of the best LTD sales records in relation to historical performances? Like already top 5 to date whilst still in active circulation? I don't care what anyone is gonna try and say otherwise money makes the world go round and if you're gonna ignore the potential of 110m+ tapups for even a minimal profit hit - why wouldn't you? Sometimes I think people forget all of this is an industry and a business - and as shitty as you may feel it is whilst I really isn't depriving you it's actually offering more accessibility across the board if they didn't do things like this and leave the money on the table someone else will have it and they will have less to invest and improve your end offerings in future.

 

Don't get me wrong I don't believe Sony always took this outlook - but with the PS4 for me their industrial business turnaround on their model and their level of increased engagement with the West compared to before really made their fortunes  - and all of ours.

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To me it just means that the games that are on both PS4 and PS5 are not truly “next-gen” and so it makes sense for them to be on both machines. I’m sure Sony titles will move away from this pretty much straight away, and third parties will follow suit as soon as it financially makes sense to do so as they always are.

I get it if people are disappointed that the games are not at the standard we were expecting, it does take the shine off the new console a little and suggests it not as essential to upgrade so quickly if one of these games was what you were specifically waiting for. I don’t think there’s any reason to see Sony as the worst company ever and feel like they’ve lied to you and stolen all your money. 

The games are still going to be better on PS5, and you don’t have to upgrade if you don’t want to.

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18 minutes ago, Will said:

To me it just means that the games that are on both PS4 and PS5 are not truly “next-gen” and so it makes sense for them to be on both machines. I’m sure Sony titles will move away from this pretty much straight away, and third parties will follow suit as soon as it financially makes sense to do so as they always are.

Fun - and only mildly related - fact: Just Dance 2020 is the last Just Dance game to be released on the Wii (and only because of disc manufacturing shortages or something), 13 years after the Wii was released. 

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12 minutes ago, Ashley said:

Fun - and only mildly related - fact: Just Dance 2020 is the last Just Dance game to be released on the Wii (and only because of disc manufacturing shortages or something), 13 years after the Wii was released. 

Tbh this was something I was about to mention in response to @Will and yes it throws back to someone else's comment earlier - Nintendo have been doing it for ages so why are people outraged about this now like it's some shock horror? Was nobody on this originally nintendo-based and nintendo-centric forum not paying attention to the industry all this time? It's just obvious business. Love doesn't pay the bills man.

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