Languages

[Ashley]

9 hours ago, bob said:

My wife was making me feel guilty about laying in bed for half an hour while she gets ready for work, so I decided to spend the time learning a language.

Choose Portuguese, since we'll be going on holiday there in August, and have been using DuoLingo every day for the past three weeks. It's pretty fun. I don't know how much I'll continue with Portuguese after the holiday, but I might try a different language after that.

The one annoying thing about Duolingo is that it only offers Brazilian Portuguese. I don't know how different they are, but I'm hoping it won't make too much difference for what I'm using it for.

As far as I know (but there's actual European Portuguese people here so correct me) the pronunciation is somewhat different, namely Brazilians make an effort to pronounce most of the letters and Europeans bat a 12% average (😋) and colloquialisms and that.

I think Memrise offers European Portuguese. 

Or that Netflix Madeline McCann documentary...

[Jonnas]

@bob

Pronunciation-wise, Brazilians pronounce vowels more openly, whereas we tend to close them to the point they're almost mute. On the other hand, we actually pronounce every consonant properly, as opposed to the Brazilians who insist on omitting the R's and L's at the end of words, or adding "tch"s and "dj"s where they don't actually exist. So it's really a matter of whether you prefer clear vowels or adequate consonants

Usage-wise, Brazil is to Portugal like the USA is to the UK. Most people understand the Brazilian accent due to media presence, so speaking that will give you less hassle. And if you have trouble understanding the European accent, we'll speak slowly. On the other hand, if you plan to come to Portugal with some regularity, European is what you ought to learn.

Grammar-wise, the way we structure our sentences and use grammar is different in weird ways (For example, "Eu amo-te" in Portugal is "Eu te amo" in Brazil). Furthermore, you know the difference between "Du" and "Sie" in German? It's a thing in Portugal, but virtually non-existent in Brazil. Overall, I'd say Brazilian is easier to learn, but studying European Portuguese should give you a more extensive use of our grammar (for example, we actually conjugate second-person singular during everyday speech).

And now, a comedy video featuring a couple of Brazilians and a couple of Portuguese (turn on annotations for English subtitles)

 

[bob]

[mention=229]bob[/mention]
Pronunciation-wise, Brazilians pronounce vowels more openly, whereas we tend to close them to the point they're almost mute. On the other hand, we actually pronounce every consonant properly, as opposed to the Brazilians who insist on omitting the R's and L's at the end of words, or adding "tch"s and "dj"s where they don't actually exist. So it's really a matter of whether you prefer clear vowels or adequate consonants
Usage-wise, Brazil is to Portugal like the USA is to the UK. Most people understand the Brazilian accent due to media presence, so speaking that will give you less hassle. And if you have trouble understanding the European accent, we'll speak slowly. On the other hand, if you plan to come to Portugal with some regularity, European is what you ought to learn.
Grammar-wise, the way we structure our sentences and use grammar is different in weird ways (For example, "Eu amo-te" in Portugal is "Eu te amo" in Brazil). Furthermore, you know the difference between "Du" and "Sie" in German? It's a thing in Portugal, but virtually non-existent in Brazil. Overall, I'd say Brazilian is easier to learn, but studying European Portuguese should give you a more extensive use of our grammar (for example, we actually conjugate second-person singular during everyday speech).
And now, a comedy video featuring a couple of Brazilians and a couple of Portuguese (turn on annotations for English subtitles)
 

Portuguese still pronounce 'tch' like in Leite though, right? That's not just a Brazilian thing?

The main problem with DuoLingo is that it doesn't ever explain why you use some words rather than others. I can work out which endings to use based on gender etc, but I don't really know when to use Tu rather than Você. Is it like Du and Sie?

[Ashley]

Granted it's been a few years since I tried Portuguese but I thought tu was a familiar 'you' and você was formal... But I could be wrong. Again.

Or maybe it's singular vs plural. 

[Jonnas]

14 hours ago, bob said:

Portuguese still pronounce 'tch' like in Leite though, right? That's not just a Brazilian thing?

No, we don't. We pronounce it just like the English word "Late". The pronunciation "Lay-tchi" is just a Brazilian thing.

14 hours ago, bob said:

The main problem with DuoLingo is that it doesn't ever explain why you use some words rather than others. I can work out which endings to use based on gender etc, but I don't really know when to use Tu rather than Você. Is it like Du and Sie?

For European Portuguese, it is exactly like Du and Sie.

In Brazil, everybody uses Você, regardless of proximity or social status. Tu has been mostly phased out, surviving as street/ghetto slang in certain parts of the country (and even then, it's not conjugated properly).

(On a semi-related note, Vós has been mostly phased out in both countries, surviving only in the Portuguese north)

3 hours ago, Ashley said:

Granted it's been a few years since I tried Portuguese but I thought tu was a familiar 'you' and você was formal... But I could be wrong. Again.

You're correct about that.

[bob]

Ugh. That's annoying. Now I don't know what I'm pronouncing right, and what I'm pronouncing like a goddamn Brazilian.

Debating whether to switch to Memrise, as they at least have a Portuguese version...

[bob]

Memrise isn't free apparently! For £50 a year, I'll speak with a Brazilian accent, fuck it.

[Ashley]

On 29/03/2019 at 9:07 AM, bob said:

Memrise isn't free apparently! For £50 a year, I'll speak with a Brazilian accent, fuck it.

I've not used it for a while but last I did that was purely if you wanted offline lessons, same as Duolingo. Has that changed?

Forvo.com is good to hear pronunciations. 

[bob]

I've not used it for a while but last I did that was purely if you wanted offline lessons, same as Duolingo. Has that changed?
Forvo.com is good to hear pronunciations. 

I don't know. I did the first two lessons and then it said I needed to pay to go any further? I prefer the DuoLingo format anyway. I doubt I'm going to become fluent by August anyway, so it'll just help with getting around and menus etc.

[Jonnas]

On 28/03/2019 at 3:43 PM, bob said:

Ugh. That's annoying. Now I don't know what I'm pronouncing right, and what I'm pronouncing like a goddamn Brazilian.

I mean, if you end up with a Brazilian accent, that's not too bad, either. Like I said, we understand what you're saying. It's only the lack of training in hearing our accent that might become an issue.

[Fierce_LiNk]

On 29/03/2019 at 8:07 AM, bob said:

Memrise isn't free apparently! For £50 a year, I'll speak with a Brazilian accent, fuck it.

I pay for Memrise, but I haven't really got any complaints about paying the fee for it as I feel that I'm getting a lot of value from it. Do you think you're likely at all to stick with Portugese at all or move onto another language, say Spanish? If so, I'd recommend keeping it. There may even be a deal out there, as I ended up paying around the 20 quid mark for it, so watch out for those.

Duolingo also has its place and I have learned so much through that. Would recommend using both.

Good luck.  

[Fierce_LiNk]

I've been having a refresh with Spanish recently and have put quite a few hours in. To just freshen things up a little, I'm going to make more of an effort to read some Dutch and Spanish news sites to at least brushen up on my reading. I use VRT NWS for Dutch (used to be called deredactie) and have had a little look at El Mundo for Spanish. Anyone got any other news sites in these languages that may be worth a look? Quite like VRT and I usually look at that when in Belgium anyway. 

Any good Spanish radio stations? For Dutch/Flemish, I listen to Stu Bru, which is actually my favourite station now. Brilliant station.

[Happenstance]

I really need to get motivated to carry on learning Japanese. I was enjoying working my way through the book I bought and found I was picking some up watching Terrace House on Netflix but I’ve let it fall to the side.

[Pestneb]

3 hours ago, Fierce_LiNk said:

I've been having a refresh with Spanish recently and have put quite a few hours in. To just freshen things up a little, I'm going to make more of an effort to read some Dutch and Spanish news sites to at least brushen up on my reading. I use VRT NWS for Dutch (used to be called deredactie) and have had a little look at El Mundo for Spanish. Anyone got any other news sites in these languages that may be worth a look? Quite like VRT and I usually look at that when in Belgium anyway. 

Any good Spanish radio stations? For Dutch/Flemish, I listen to Stu Bru, which is actually my favourite station now. Brilliant station.

not a news website, but I found this a while back www.nintenderos.com Not stuck to it tbh because I don't have a switch so my interest in Nintendo is pretty much in hibernation, but at least it seems to be native spanish and on a topic you might be interested in. I have found news on there before it came out in English before, and it was accurate (not sure how reliable they are though, as I said, I haven't followed them much)

[Fierce_LiNk]

3 hours ago, Happenstance said:

I really need to get motivated to carry on learning Japanese. I was enjoying working my way through the book I bought and found I was picking some up watching Terrace House on Netflix but I’ve let it fall to the side.

Get baaack on iiiiit. 

I need to do the same, too. Definitely not an easy language to pick up casually. It requires a lot of effort, but I imagine the payoff will be great. Maybe assigning a few minutes a day or a specific day where you can concentrate on it. You may get better results that way. 

 

39 minutes ago, Pestneb said:

not a news website, but I found this a while back www.nintenderos.com Not stuck to it tbh because I don't have a switch so my interest in Nintendo is pretty much in hibernation, but at least it seems to be native spanish and on a topic you might be interested in. I have found news on there before it came out in English before, and it was accurate (not sure how reliable they are though, as I said, I haven't followed them much)

Cheers for that. I've had a look at it and it could be quite useful. I may look to see if there's another multiplatform site out there, just to vary it up a bit as my interest is also in hibernation.  

[Ike]

4 hours ago, Happenstance said:

I really need to get motivated to carry on learning Japanese. I was enjoying working my way through the book I bought and found I was picking some up watching Terrace House on Netflix but I’ve let it fall to the side.

Yeah, I wish I was a bit further. I've been using WaniKani more this year, currently have 85 lessons queue'd. 

Kanji having multiple readings sucks.

I need to study the grammar more really but I never seem to have the energy and I keep jumping around which probably isn't good.

I am slowly learning though, been a few times where I've been able to read some (simple) sentences which feels good.

[Ashley]

Finished the second semester of my Italian class last week and I don't think I'll do a third. I'm finding the group setting isn't really helping me learn in a way that suits my learning style. 

And it's kind of mean but most of the class being retirees drags it sometimes. It's great for them but having to wait for them to find the right arms length to read something gets a bit...

So I'm thinking private tutor. Just found one that also teaches cooking. Could be useful!

[Gadwin]

Had a look at that duolingo website tonight after seeing this topic. 

Started doing the japanese course, had a go at learning to read the language with a game on steam last summer called learn to survive japanese hirigana battle.

My profile is called GadwinDight on duolingo.  Working my way through hirigana 2 so far.

[Goafer]

I've also started Japanese on Duolingo. Finding it good so far, but I'm only really doing it so that I have something productive to do when I'm bored. Don't know how seriously I'll take it.

I've also started German, as I did it at school and I'm not too bad at it. I've mainly been focusing on the Japanese though, so German has taken the back seat.

I'm basically studying the bad guys in WW2.

[Ashley]

Reached a 1000 day streak on Duolingo on Tuesday.

I lost it around 995 but if you upgrade you get the streak back so I did a one week free trial.  I'm sure it didn't count my lessons from that day though.  I spotted a day or two afterwards the lesson number going up and then back down again.

Currently trying to build a database of verb conjugations to then potentially build an app (for my own purpose primarily) to display them in a way that suits my learning style better. Problem is I'm trying to apply logic to a language... Also trying to find all the different ways in which a verb can be irregular (tense, type etc) and most online resources say "here's some examples" but I kind of need all.  Think this may take a while.

[bob]

Portuguese start off fairly simple but then ramps up the difficulty like a bitch.

Thought I was coasting until all the 'there, that, this' turned up and realised I can't be arsed. I wish you could just choose to learn some vocab for a bit.

[Ike]

Not sure if I'm missing something obvious, but where does Duolingo actually teach you the word? You start a lesson and it immediately asks you what the translation is or asks you to pick the pairs. I know you can click the word at the top sometimes and it gives you the translation, but I feel like it misses a lot of context. For example, they teach Sayonara for goodbye, but apparently you're only supposed to use it if you aren't going to see the other person for a while.

[Ashley]

3 hours ago, Ike said:

Not sure if I'm missing something obvious, but where does Duolingo actually teach you the word? You start a lesson and it immediately asks you what the translation is or asks you to pick the pairs. I know you can click the word at the top sometimes and it gives you the translation, but I feel like it misses a lot of context. For example, they teach Sayonara for goodbye, but apparently you're only supposed to use it if you aren't going to see the other person for a while.

It essentially doesn't.  I know some lessons have an introduction but to the concept rather than specific vocab.  I also think that's web only but maybe it's hidden somewhere on the app.

23 hours ago, bob said:

Portuguese start off fairly simple but then ramps up the difficulty like a bitch.

Thought I was coasting until all the 'there, that, this' turned up and realised I can't be arsed. I wish you could just choose to learn some vocab for a bit.

You doing European or Brazilian Portuguese?  

[bob]

Brazilian is the only option on DuoLingo unfortunately.

[Ashley]

Aye fair.  I bounced off Portuguese fairly quickly because a) I was getting mixed up with Italian and b) the EU pronunciation is a mindfuck.