EU Referendum - In/Out?

[Rummy]

I still post on Facebook about the Referendum aftermath and will keep doing so as long as I feel things need be brought to people's attention... and it's always good to discuss matters.

If they don't want to see it they can always unfollow me.

 

Yeah I've always shared stuff that could be called political - but I guess it's because I feel some people don't consider or think about it all enough, and tbh I think this referendum has shown that in some ways. I'm slightly trying to avoid taking any sides now the decisions in or fighting that corner and just going forwards generally - absolutely like you I think the best thing is to discuss things. One of my mates on facebook was vehemently on the opposite side of the vote to me, but it hasn't tinged us at all(if anything, made us closer!) - I am struggling to actually understand how or why people are having to get so caught up and personal about things, like how you can hate someone so vehemently simply for having a different view to you! If we just all got along and agreed then life would be boring! I just wish some people would conduct themselves with decorum - I've seen absolutely despicable and vile behaviour post decision from both sides, and that's one of the things that upsets and maybe even angers me the most. I abhor all this name calling and absolute and utter self-belief that they're not just an opinion, but that they're right! I know I can and have been very passionate on the whole topic, but I've never taken an approach of dismissing someone for a different opinion and I'm amazed seeing the absolute spectrum of people doing so!

[bob]

I made the mistake of reading through more Brexit racism accounts on Facebook and now I'm all depressed at work.

[Daft]

Farage is a disgrace to this country. Everyone knows anyway but after his performance in the European Parliament this morning it is beyond doubt.

 

this morning

 

this morning

 

 

 

[Ashley]

Speaking of David Tennant (kind of...)

 

 

And speaking of random celebrities, Keanu Reeves has turned up to fix things:

 

[tweet]747787175601770496[/tweet]

 

And speaking of deplorable cuntbags, Jeremy Hunt has said we should have a second referendum once we know the terms of exit (would have been nice to have that before the first but hey ho) which sounds nice in its idealism, but EU member states are already saying they won't have informal talks so the best we can offer is "this is how it is now, and this is what we think we can get but can't guarantee until after we trigger article 50".

 

He's also considering running for PM because he wants to ruin more than just the NHS.

[Serebii]

Speaking of David Tennant (kind of...)

 

 

And speaking of random celebrities, Keanu Reeves has turned up to fix things:

 

[tweet]747787175601770496[/tweet]

 

And speaking of deplorable cuntbags, Jeremy Hunt has said we should have a second referendum once we know the terms of exit (would have been nice to have that before the first but hey ho) which sounds nice in its idealism, but EU member states are already saying they won't have informal talks so the best we can offer is "this is how it is now, and this is what we think we can get but can't guarantee until after we trigger article 50".

 

He's also considering running for PM because he wants to ruin more than just the NHS.

It's not like he can ruin it anymore than Brexit already has

[bob]

Hang on, are you calling Keanu Reeves a deplorable cuntbag?

[Serebii]

Hang on, are you calling Keanu Reeves a deplorable cuntbag?

Ashley's just upset that Keanu Reeves hasn't aged in 30 years while Ashley is fast approaching 30 :p

[Ashley]

Hang on, are you calling Keanu Reeves a deplorable cuntbag?

 

I think right now everyone is

 

Ashley's just upset that Keanu Reeves hasn't aged in 30 years while Ashley is fast approaching 30 :p

 

Aren't you older than me?

[Choze]

It's not like he can ruin it anymore than Brexit already has

 

This is just small extra fluff created due to uncertainty thanks to our great politicians(namely English ones). Once we leave the EU the real stuff begins and it will last decades.

 

So yeah all this bad news is just a tiny microcosm of what is to come. Brexit has not even begun. : peace: Anyone saying 'we dont know' are flat out lying.

[pratty]

If it's any consolation to those depressed about the racism we should remember that leaving the EU is not the end of immigration into Britain, the way some people are reacting you'd think all immigration had been outlawed. It hasn't and it won't be.

 

However as someone who voted leave I don't think it's unreasonable to have legitimate non-racist/xenophobic concerns over mass/free immigration, and to express the desire to see immigration controlled by Britain as we see fit because we are the ones who will have to deal with any negative consequences of it.

 

And I say this as a person with immigrant friends and family from such countries as Chile, Burma, New Zealand and The Phillipines. I have no problem whatsoever with them being here as they went through the proper immigration channels to become residents, (and they have fit in and contributed). For me it's hardly mean or unfair to ask our EU neighbours to do the same and go through the same process, and it certainly isn't an expression of hate against them.

 

Parliament needs to nip this in the bud. Other EU countries have had referendums pertaining to the EU where the slim majority said No but it was overturned. This NEEDS to be the outcome. The economy is crashing. The promises will be unfulfilled due to being unfeasible. Taxes will rise. The pound will continue to drop.

 

Perhaps this would be best economically, but if we permit them to do this, it will say a lot about democracy and how we a governed in general. We will be admitting the government does infact know best for the nation, and will therefore potentially make it more difficult to challenge the governemnt in future, even on the basis that the majority of people disagree with them. You may be glad of the governemnt ignoring the majority of people now over this, but will you accept this over other issues?

 

I can't help feeling if the vote had gone the other way, 52% voting remain, the system of democratic voting would be praised by the remainers, and anything other than the complete obedience by our governemnt of the democratically decided majority will of the people would be condemed as sour grapes, unfair, authoritarian and undemocratic.

Edited June 28, 2016 by pratty

[Eddage]

We will be admitting the government does infact know best for the nation

 

Isn't this what we do any way?

 

We elect a government to make decisions on the nations behalf. We don't all have a say in every single law that gets passed and if we think they are doing a shit job we can elect a new lot every 5 years.

[pratty]

Isn't this what we do any way?

 

We elect a government to make decisions on the nations behalf. We don't all have a say in every single law that gets passed and if we think they are doing a shit job we can elect a new lot every 5 years.

 

Indeed, it's always been this way, now we would be explicitly saying we want it that way. Is that what we want?

 

What if the government disagrees that it's doing a shit job, how can you argue when you've already admitted that their opinion is superior to the voters? It devalues protest.

[Serebii]

Many referendums regarding the EU in EU countries have gone this way. It either causes a second referendum or ignoring when it's such a slim majority.

 

When so many people want the other thing, frankly it's irresponsible and borderline criminally negligent to just follow through with no consideration

[pratty]

Many referendums regarding the EU in EU countries have gone this way. It either causes a second referendum or ignoring when it's such a slim majority.

 

When so many people want the other thing, frankly it's irresponsible and borderline criminally negligent to just follow through with no consideration

 

Would you have accepted the governemnt ignoring an equally close vote to stay?

 

How do we decide what to do? The simple reason the majority usually wins a vote is because setting required percentages is arbitrary.

 

If we say "just leave to the governemnt, we'll effectively decide on the EU when we decide on the governemnt that decides on the EU for us," then we're saying that we do want to decide on the EU afterall. The remain side need to make up there mind here, they defend the EU by saying we (the people) have say and effectively have a vote on the EU through voting for our government and for our MEPs, but then say we're not qualified enough for our opinion to count and the politicians should ignore us and do what they want, so surely while we might have 'a say', we don't necessarily have any influence on the EU.

 

And if an anti policy X party were to beat a pro policy X party, by 52% to 48% in a general election, we don't demand a re-vote because it's unfair on the 48%.

[Ashley]

If it's any consolation to those depressed about the racism we should remember that leaving the EU is not the end of immigration into Britain, the way some people are reacting you'd think all immigration had been outlawed. It hasn't and it won't be.

 

However as someone who voted leave I don't think it's unreasonable to have legitimate non-racist/xenophobic concerns over mass/free immigration, and to express the desire to see immigration controlled by Britain as we see fit because we are the ones who will have to deal with any negative consequences of it.

 

And I say this as a person with immigrant friends and family from such countries as Chile, Burma, New Zealand and The Phillipines. I have no problem whatsoever with them being here as they went through the proper immigration channels to become residents, (and they have fit in and contributed). For me it's hardly mean or unfair to ask our EU neighbours to do the same and go through the same process, and it certainly isn't an expression of hate against them.

 

 

 

Perhaps this would be best economically, but if we permit them to do this, it will say a lot about democracy and how we a governed in general. We will be admitting the government does infact know best for the nation, and will therefore potentially make it more difficult to challenge the governemnt in future, even on the basis that the majority of people disagree with them. You may be glad of the governemnt ignoring the majority of people now over this, but will you accept this over other issues?

 

I can't help feeling if the vote had gone the other way, 52% voting remain, the system of democratic voting would be praised by the remainers, and anything other than the complete obedience by our governemnt of the democratically decided majority will of the people would be condemed as sour grapes, unfair, authoritarian and undemocratic.

 

I'm not worried about racism because I think immigration is going to end (they said all along it wouldn't). I'm worried because my friends are scared to leave the house for fear of attack. That reason. That soul crushing, rage inducing, devastating reason. In 2016 people are afraid to leave their house in Britain for fear of racial attack.

 

And obviously these things happened before sadly, but it's become more widespread and the response from the government so far has been shit.

[Serebii]

Would you have accepted the governemnt ignoring an equally close vote to stay?

 

How do we decide what to do? The simple reason the majority usually wins a vote is because setting required percentages is arbitrary.

 

If we say "just leave to the governemnt, we'll effectively decide on the EU when we decide on the governemnt that decides on the EU for us," then we're saying that we do want to decide on the EU afterall. The remain side need to make up there mind here, they defend the EU by saying we (the people) have say and effectively have a vote on the EU through voting for our government and for our MEPs, but then say we're not qualified enough for our opinion to count and the politicians should ignore us and do what they want, so surely while we might have 'a say', we don't necessarily have any influence on the EU.

 

And if an anti policy X party were to beat a pro policy X party, by 52% to 48% in a general election, we don't demand a re-vote because it's unfair on the 48%.

Ignoring the slim majority to maintain the status quo is a different beast to ignoring the slim majority to enact major change that impacts hundreds of millions of people.

 

If it was just a day before, Remain would have won.

 

I've written to my MP and implored him to do what is right.

[Eenuh]

Ignoring the slim majority to maintain the status quo is a different beast to ignoring the slim majority to enact major change that impacts hundreds of millions of people.

 

If it was just a day before, Remain would have won.

 

I've written to my MP and implored him to do what is right.

 

If that is Conor Burns then I doubt much will happen as he was for Leave as well... Really don't like him, but there is no way to vote him out with the current system. -__-;

[bob]

If it's any consolation to those depressed about the racism we should remember that leaving the EU is not the end of immigration into Britain, the way some people are reacting you'd think all immigration had been outlawed. It hasn't and it won't be.

 

As Ashley said, the control on immigration doesn't bother me (like you said, it's probably not going to change much).

 

What I'm scared about is that racists in this country now seem to believe that 52% of the country agree with them, and all the shame of being a racist in public appears to have disappeared.

 

Whatever happens politically in the future, I'm not sure what we can do to solve that problem. That ship has sailed, letting the cat out of the bag and allowing the horse to bolt as it does so.

[Serebii]

If that is Conor Burns then I doubt much will happen as he was for Leave as well... Really don't like him, but there is no way to vote him out with the current system. -__-;

 

Na, it's Tobias Ellwood. I don't expect much since last time I contacted him, I essentially got this back

 

He's the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs so maybe he sees sense. His website indicates he's for staying in the EU but wants to push for reforms

[gaggle64]

Just saw a woman on BBC News describing how she likes Farage because he's "powerful" and "people can look at him and think "My god he was good!"" and I'm just sat in here in bewilderment trying to pinpoint what precisely has to go wrong in somebody's life for them to look at Farage and see strength.

 

On a similar note to the Samantha B video Stephen Colbert encasulates what I fear we look like to the rest of the world now. We don't look like a nation taking control of it's destiny, we look like cartoonish dishonorable idiots.

 

[Daft]

We don't look like a nation taking control of it's destiny

 

Because we aren't.

 

Vodafone to consider HQ move after Brexit

 

After a resounding Brexit vote, Sunderland fears for Nissan plant

 

Brexit stalls Tata Steel's UK operations sale plans

 

Telegraph Biz Editor on Twitter: LSE boss @xrolet has said he thinks 100k City jobs could go post-Brexit. That would mean £10bn in lost tax and £32.5bn in lost output.

 

 

 

This is my favourite though, UK in breach of international human rights

 

“The UN’s verdict is clear and indisputable. It considered extensive evidence and gave the Government every opportunity to show why its tax and policy reforms were necessary and fair. In many important respects the Government proved unable to do this. It is clear that since 2010, ministers were fully aware that their policies would hit lower income groups hardest and deepen the suffering of many already facing disadvantage without offering any long term gain for the pain they inflicted."

 

This one doesn't even have anything to do with Brexit. But we're now facing even more cuts because of it.

 

Edit: I forgot this gem.

 

Rupert Murdoch describes Brexit as 'wonderful'

 

I mean...come one... You don't need a Remain campaign to tell you that siding with Murdoch, La Pen, Donald Fucking Trump, Michael Gove, Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson is a fucking stupid idea.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Daft

[bob]

Yes, but we can now stand on our own two feet....

 

...for about 6 months before we topple over and end up in a wheelie bin.

[pratty]

Ignoring the slim majority to maintain the status quo is a different beast to ignoring the slim majority to enact major change that impacts hundreds of millions of people.

 

So 52% taking the other 48% in one direction is wrong because it's too close, but 48% taking the other 52% in the other direction is ok? Despite the same closeless and that the people getting their way are in the minority.

 

If that's how you and others feel then that's fine, I just hope everyone is consistant about this when they want change.

 

That the UK should be prevented from deciding itself what it wants to do, because it effects hundreds of millions of mostly non-British people, is exactly my problem with the EU. As a political union the EU is too big and too dependant on each other that many people will not tolerate the freedom of a nation do as it pleases or even leave.

 

As Ashley said, the control on immigration doesn't bother me (like you said, it's probably not going to change much).

 

What I'm scared about is that racists in this country now seem to believe that 52% of the country agree with them,

 

I understand this, could it be that the racists think the other leavers are with them because so many of the remainers said you were racist to question the EU's immigration policy and want more immigration contro linto the UK? If anyone made this out to be a racist vs non-racist issue it was them.

[Serebii]

So 52% taking the other 48% in one direction is wrong because it's too close, but 48% taking the other 52% in the other direction is ok? Despite the same closeless and that the people getting their way are in the minority.

 

If that's how you and others feel then that's fine, I just hope everyone is consistant about this when they want change.

 

That the UK should be prevented from deciding itself what it wants to do, because it effects hundreds of millions of mostly non-British people, is exactly my problem with the EU. As a political union the EU is too big and too dependant on each other that many people will not tolerate the freedom of a nation do as it pleases or even leave.

 

Absolutely they should when it comes with such fundamental shifts, has already ruined our economy killing off all the growth we've made in the last 20 years and was built on a house of lies

[bob]

 

I understand this, could it be that the racists think the other leavers are with them because so many of the remainers said you were racist to question the EU's immigration policy and want more immigration contro linto the UK? If anyone made this out to be a racist vs non-racist issue it was them.

 

Yep. Defo their fault. 100%.