Serebii Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) Thank you for the clarification. It's still the same scene though, right? Just with a cutaway in between? They're really not closely related though. There is no doubt in my mind that this has nothing to do with that. The images were taken out of context. You can do that with anything to get any reaction and tie in with anything. That's how important context is to things. That's why people need to actually look at context of things before reacting. While what happened to her sucks, this has nothing to do with her. Fun guys = a joke on Fungi, and a joke that has frequently been used in the Mario series regarding Toad Five = There's five of them -gate = a suffix that is used whenever there's a scandal This has nothing to do with her or what happened to her, and it's ridiculous to assume otherwise. Edited June 23, 2016 by Serebii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I imagine the last thing she wants is attention to be frank. 85 thousand tweets and her kicking up a fuss over this say otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 85 thousand tweets and her kicking up a fuss over this say otherwise. That's not too uncommon a number. Some people tweet a lot. And if she feels she is being victimised or insulted she has the right to have her say (not "kick up a fuss" which is insultingly demeaning). They're really not closely related though. There is no doubt in my mind that this has nothing to do with that. The images were taken out of context. You can do that with anything to get any reaction and tie in with anything. That's how important context is to things. That's why people need to actually look at context of things before reacting. I am looking at it in a wider context. The context of the games industry. An industry with serious problems towards women. And within the context of Nintendo having been brought into GG. And this woman's ex being part of the team that localises. It's impossible to not look at the context. Would be interesting to see what the original Japanese says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 That's not too uncommon a number. Some people tweet a lot. And if she feels she is being victimised or insulted she has the right to have her say (not "kick up a fuss" which is insultingly demeaning). I am looking at it in a wider context. The context of the games industry. An industry with serious problems towards women. And within the context of Nintendo having been brought into GG. And this woman's ex being part of the team that localises. It's impossible to not look at the context. Would be interesting to see what the original Japanese says. But it's Nintendo. Nintendo has never had a serious problem with women, and they've been pushing equality and everything for decades. Is it not more logical, based on facts etc. to give them the benefit of the doubt for two things which aren't as closely connected as the removed images imply rather than just assume the worst case scenario? The fact that humans constantly jump to the absolute worst assumption is part of what is wrong with society and you can see that with things globally i.e. Trump, Brexit etc. I have absolutely zero doubt that this has anything to do with her. We can't just suddenly assume all references to five males in gaming and any -gate suffix is pertaining to her at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happenstance Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Oh wow, I didnt realise Zoe's ex was part of the team that localises. I was firmly in the camp that didnt think anything of this from Nintendo but that does make you wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 But it's Nintendo. Nintendo has never had a serious problem with women, and they've been pushing equality and everything for decades. Is it not more logical, based on facts etc. to give them the benefit of the doubt for two things which aren't as closely connected as the removed images imply rather than just assume the worst case scenario? The fact that humans constantly jump to the absolute worst assumption is part of what is wrong with society and you can see that with things globally i.e. Trump, Brexit etc. Don't you dare try and lump me in with them. Nintendo is trying to improve things but it's slow progress (as it is across the sector sadly). It's great they're trying, but it should also be expected. I shouldn't have to praise them for trying. I should assume they would be. I tried to find a high-ranking female Nintendo employee for International Woman's Day and it was bloody difficult. Setting aside Japan, which itself has different social contexts when it comes to gender equality, the company is made up of mostly men. Yes they're trying to address, but that means they still have work to do. And this is still the same company that said just last week "but if Zelda was the hero what would Link do?" Even if it isn't connected the fact there's such a desperate call for it to be addressed on one side and a push to discredit it on the other says a lot about how the issue is prevalent and needs discussing and maybe this is an impetus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Don't you dare try and lump me in with them. Nintendo is trying to improve things but it's slow progress (as it is across the sector sadly). It's great they're trying, but it should also be expected. I shouldn't have to praise them for trying. I should assume they would be. I tried to find a high-ranking female Nintendo employee for International Woman's Day and it was bloody difficult. Setting aside Japan, which itself has different social contexts when it comes to gender equality, the company is made up of mostly men. Yes they're trying to address, but that means they still have work to do. And this is still the same company that said just last week "but if Zelda was the hero what would Link do?" Even if it isn't connected the fact there's such a desperate call for it to be addressed on one side and a push to discredit it on the other says a lot about how the issue is prevalent and needs discussing and maybe this is an impetus. So because they don't have many at the top means they aren't progressive? Treehouse is filled with female staff and are typically the ones used to promote games. Nintendo seldom put out a game where you don't play as a female. They've had female protagonists since the 80s. Just because they don't have a high ranking employee who is female doesn't mean they're being slow. It's illogical to just assume that there was intent or malice here when there clearly wasn't any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) I have already said i don't believe Nintendo as a company was acting with malice. And until there's absolute equality then yes, we should continue to strive and question. And females front and centre at a game industry show. Hmm, that must be for equality... Yes I'm sure they do care about their female employees and I'm sure they do want to show how great they are, but the expo issue is a whole different one with a much more problematic past. And yes women should be represented at all levels, particularly decision making levels. Edited June 23, 2016 by Ashley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happenstance Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 *Flashbacks to Nintendo tethering 3DS' to a load of women at E3* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen-i Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 No doubt, it's a really unfortunate coincidence, but it's also worth noting that the Watergate Scandal involved five robbers, who effectively ruined Nixon's career (The "career ruined" bit). @Ashley does bring up a point about what the original Japanese says. I'm kinda interested in what that says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-06-23-nintendo-denies-paper-mario-color-splash-link-to-online-hate-campaign Nintendo have commented Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happenstance Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 See, I'm happy to believe Nintendo that it was nothing to do with Zoe and Gamergate, even with her Ex working there. What seems off is them commenting on the "online hate campaign" now, but not when it was one of their own employees getting the abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 See, I'm happy to believe Nintendo that it was nothing to do with Zoe and Gamergate, even with her Ex working there. What seems off is them commenting on the "online hate campaign" now, but not when it was one of their own employees getting the abuse. Hindsight is 20/20 and they learned from that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happenstance Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Hindsight is 20/20 and they learned from that? Probably yes but unfortunately it shouldnt have been a lesson they had to learn and because they did nothing someone suffered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Well done Nintendo, a big fuss over absolutely nothing. Reading her latest tweets, I'm even more convinced she's an attention seeker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Probably yes but unfortunately it shouldnt have been a lesson they had to learn and because they did nothing someone suffered. To be fair, they didn't do nothing. They supported that employee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 To be fair, they didn't do nothing. They supported that employee How did they support Rapp exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcubed Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 I tried to find a high-ranking female Nintendo employee for International Woman's Day and it was bloody difficult. Setting aside Japan, which itself has different social contexts when it comes to gender equality, the company is made up of mostly men. Yes they're trying to address, but that means they still have work to do. Risa Tabata and Aya Kyogoku spring to mind. Both are senior producers at Nintendo who have worked on the Zelda, Metroid and Animal Crossing series amongst others, you should've consulted me Nintendo have generally been pretty good when it comes to recruiting and promoting female designers. They obviously need to promote them more, but the same could be said of most of their non famous design staff really. Their demographic reach is also pretty evenly split across genders as well. I've always had the impression that they're a good place to work for it you're female in general... See, I'm happy to believe Nintendo that it was nothing to do with Zoe and Gamergate, even with her Ex working there. What seems off is them commenting on the "online hate campaign" now, but not when it was one of their own employees getting the abuse. Because it's a private matter? Because bringing attention to it would probably only incite more online abuse? Because anything involving internal politics shouldn't be aired publically, but rather dealt with behind closed doors (speaking about her position even before she was fired for moonlighting here; she was already doing PR damage to the company she was working for with her use of social media - and that's something that is not unique to her either; see Chris Pranger and Dan Adelman) Plenty of reasons not to bring attention to it publically. There's a good chance that it was being addressed behind closed doors anyway. Well done Nintendo, a big fuss over absolutely nothing. Reading her latest tweets, I'm even more convinced she's an attention seeker. Don't be an idiot. The last thing she wants is more online harassment. It's not hard to see why she'd take things personally, given everything that has happened to her. It was a misunderstanding that she got understandably upset about. Nothing to do with her wanting attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 How did they support Rapp exactly? From what we've heard they were supportive internally. Just because they didn't publically denounce everything as evil doesn't mean they weren't supporting, especially considering the stuff coming up. It was only when it came to light what the nature of her moonlighting was that they had to dismiss her because that sort of work is strongly against Nintendo's policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Because it's a private matter? Because bringing attention to it would probably only incite more online abuse? Because anything involving internal politics shouldn't be aired publically, but rather dealt with behind closed doors (speaking about her position even before she was fired for moonlighting here; she was already doing PR damage to the company she was working for with her use of social media - and that's something that is not unique to her either; see Chris Pranger and Dan Adelman) Plenty of reasons not to bring attention to it publically. There's a good chance that it was being addressed behind closed doors anyway. It wasn't a private matter though. It became a very public matter. It was even picked up by news outlets. The details and their internal processes were private, but publicly acknowledging it would have been something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happenstance Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Because it's a private matter? Because bringing attention to it would probably only incite more online abuse? Because anything involving internal politics shouldn't be aired publically, but rather dealt with behind closed doors (speaking about her position even before she was fired for moonlighting here; she was already doing PR damage to the company she was working for with her use of social media - and that's something that is not unique to her either; see Chris Pranger and Dan Adelman) We'll definitely just have to agree to disagree there I think. Clarification on what someone does and doesnt have influence over if they are getting a hate campaign targetted at them for is the least I would expect a company to do. I'm not talking about the private matters or her own views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero-of-Time Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzybee Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 THat's great, seems to have a nice tone and humor to it. Let's hope the game ends up being better than it looks. Not hard, but nice to have SOMETHING new to play this Christmas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekunando Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 The Rescue V remind me of the Handsome Men in Killer7 I haven't given Colour Splash much thought since it was revealed but it would be a nice surprise if it turns out to be good With all the compaints about the supporting cast in recent Paper Mario games favouring Toads, it's interesting to see that these new 'Fearless Colour Defenders' are yet more variations of Toad instead of introducing a cast of cool new heroes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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