Mr-Paul Posted August 17, 2016 Posted August 17, 2016 And they're all from different film studios. Nintendo is one developer. Sure it would be great if they created five different racers, five different brawlers and a dozen different arcade space shooters per generation, but that's just slightly unrealistic. Nintendo themselves create amazing games, in a variety of different genres, with more diversity than any other developer out there by far. The problem is and has always been in recent times, a lack of third party support. But Nintendo isn't just one developer. It's a big corporation made of lots of development teams. Yet this generation on Wii U, Most of those studios haven't been making the "darker" side of their game portfolio. No Metroid. No F-Zero. No Zelda other than re-makes (yet!). No new IPs other than Splatoon. Let's compare them to Disney, a big corporation with a family-orientated image. They've got their main animation studio, which has a particular style, but they also have such a diverse range of other studios to create content that appeals to all. And when they felt they had gaps in their portfolio, they invest in other studios to make their company better. They take opportunities when they can to expand their company. Superhero movies doing well? They buy Marvel. Chance to buy Star Wars comes up? Snap at it. They don't just rely on Mickey Mouse and their main animation portfolio. Nintendo remind me a bit of Arsenal. Will sit on shedloads of cash reserves rather than investing to expand their company.
Ronnie Posted August 17, 2016 Posted August 17, 2016 Comparing Nintendo to Disney is slightly more appropriate than comparing them to the entire film industry I suppose, even though Disney are about 5 times the size. When Nintendo create so many different types of games it's only natural some genres will remain thin on the ground in terms of quantity. They have lots of platformers, lots of RPGs, lots of puzzle games, that's what sells on a Nintendo console. Point me to a (single) developer that's made 5 different brawlers, or 5 different arcade space shooters like @Fierce_LiNk is suggesting. No Metroid, but we got Donkey Kong Country instead. No F-Zero but we got Wonderful 101 instead. No Zelda, except the one that looks incredible and was the biggest talking point at E3 by far.
Mr-Paul Posted August 17, 2016 Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) Comparing Nintendo to Disney is slightly more appropriate than comparing them to the entire film industry I suppose, even though Disney are about 5 times the size. Disney may be bigger. But they're one of the big six film studios. Nintendo are one of the big three video game platform holders. I think it's a fair comparison, of course there are going to be differences across industries, but they're both large, influential conglomerates within their respective fields with a family friendly image. When Nintendo create so many different types of games it's only natural some genres will remain thin on the ground in terms of quantity. They have lots of platformers, lots of RPGs, lots of puzzle games, that's what sells on a Nintendo console. Point me to a (single) developer that's made 5 different brawlers, or 5 different arcade space shooters like @Fierce_LiNk is suggesting. I don't think anyone is saying Nintendo need to make all of these games in different styles! Just that their platform needs a bigger variation in style desperately. You've brought it back to genre, but we're talking mood and style as well. (Plus, do they only sell so well because there's nothing else available? ) There's also a difference between Nintendo as a developer, and Nintendo as a publisher and console maker. Nintendo as a developer can vary the style of their output a lot more than they are currently. As a publisher, they need to be reaching out to other developers, getting them to work with them as co-productions, even buying out more studios. There are examples of this, like the Wonderful 101, like you've mentioned below. No Metroid, but we got Donkey Kong Country instead. No F-Zero but we got Wonderful 101 instead. No Zelda, except the one that looks incredible and was the biggest talking point at E3 by far. No Metroid, but another cartoon platformer. Great if you're a fan of the series, but provides no diversity to your line-up. If you aren't going to buy the console for Mario, you're not going to buy it for Donkey Kong. Wonderful 101 wasn't made by Nintendo, but was published by them. They should definitely be doing stuff like this, but Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta are VERY niche games. But the point is, Wonderful 101 didn't stop Nintendo from making F-Zero. And it's great that Zelda is looking so good. But it's too late. They should be expanding the Zelda team so it doesn't take so bloody long to make one! Edited August 17, 2016 by Mr-Paul
Kav Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 The reason it's fair to call on Nintendo for not making these games is simply because they're a hardware manufacturer and are more or less the only developer supporting their console. If they want their console sales to increase and not decrease then they do need to start providing a wider breadth of games and also a wider breadth of variety within their genres. If they were 3rd Party we'd not bother picking apart their output but the simple fact of the matter is they're not. They're a hardware manufacturer and so it's completely right that people talk about the lack of diversity within their library. ...Imagine telling somebody that you could only watch one Science Fiction film. Or that you could only read one Fantasy novel. Or you could only listen to one Post-Rock band. That's where the lack of variety is. Or, least, partly. There's many different styles of Science Fiction. There's 2001, there's Alien, there's Deep Impact, there's ET, District 9, Independence Day, Solaris, Children of Men, 1984, etc... Fierce_Link is completely right when he says this!!!
Sheikah Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 (edited) And they're all from different film studios. Nintendo is one developer. I don't get it - we are telling you why there is a serious lack of diversity on the console and then you're basically saying 'yeah but they're just one developer; isn't that good for one developer'. I don't care if they're one developer - it's simply not my problem that they chose to make their own console with so little support. Our comments on the situation relative to the competition are more than fair. They shouldn't be making a console if they can't muster adequate support. Edited August 18, 2016 by Sheikah
Ronnie Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 This place man, Nintendo just can't do anything right can they. This thread and the Wii U one, it's just constant whinges and complaints about everything. Even positive comments cause uproar, genuinely good news gets shouted down and belittled, whilst vaguely negative comments on the PS4 thread get deleted. The NX reveal can't come soon enough, not that I think it will change much sadly. If they want their console sales to increase and not decrease then they do need to start providing a wider breadth of games and also a wider breadth of variety within their genres. There's a huge breadth of games on their console, that's been proven, made all the more impressive because they come from a single developer. If any console is lacking variety I would say it's the competition, who are rescued by indie games and download titles. Retail releases though all I see on PS4 are shooters, openworld action games, sports and a few RPGs thrown in. They make up the bulk of retail releases. COD, Fallout, Overwatch, GTA, Doom, Destiny, Witcher, The Division, Battlefront, Bloodborne, Horizon, FIFA, Batman, Battleborn, MGS, Battlefield, Assassin's Creed, Far Cry....... thank god for indies.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 (edited) ^ You need to learn to gallantly accept that people might just have a different opinion to yours, no getting in the last snide word or final thoughts, just move on and agree to disagree, rather than a chockablock of circular arguments rounded off with a "this place, man". Edited August 18, 2016 by King_V
Ashley Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 This place man, Nintendo just can't do anything right can they. This thread and the Wii U one, it's just constant whinges and complaints about everything. Even positive comments cause uproar, genuinely good news gets shouted down and belittled, whilst vaguely negative comments on the PS4 thread get deleted. The NX reveal can't come soon enough, not that I think it will change much sadly. There's a huge breadth of games on their console, that's been proven, made all the more impressive because they come from a single developer. If any console is lacking variety I would say it's the competition, who are rescued by indie games and download titles. Retail releases though all I see on PS4 are shooters, openworld action games, sports and a few RPGs thrown in. They make up the bulk of retail releases. COD, Fallout, Overwatch, GTA, Doom, Destiny, Witcher, The Division, Battlefront, Bloodborne, Horizon, FIFA, Batman, Battleborn, MGS, Battlefield, Assassin's Creed, Far Cry....... thank god for indies. There's a lot I want to say about this but I'm heading out but I will say about this part in bold you posted a baiting post which was deleted, because you were baiting. You later posted a slightly more constructive comment, but your original post was designed purely to rile. That's why it was deleted. Not because it was negative (look at dazzy's posts in there about the lack of folders for months!), but because it was purely designed to annoy others.
Mr-Paul Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 This place man, Nintendo just can't do anything right can they. This thread and the Wii U one, it's just constant whinges and complaints about everything. Even positive comments cause uproar, genuinely good news gets shouted down and belittled, whilst vaguely negative comments on the PS4 thread get deleted. The NX reveal can't come soon enough, not that I think it will change much sadly. Well no, obviously Nintendo aren't doing it right because their console failed. We're all saying what they need to do to become more successful. We're all Nintendo fans. I love their games. But they need to do better, especially when supporting a console almost single handedly. There's a huge breadth of games on their console, that's been proven, made all the more impressive because they come from a single developer. If any console is lacking variety I would say it's the competition, who are rescued by indie games and download titles. Retail releases though all I see on PS4 are shooters, openworld action games, sports and a few RPGs thrown in. They make up the bulk of retail releases. COD, Fallout, Overwatch, GTA, Doom, Destiny, Witcher, The Division, Battlefront, Bloodborne, Horizon, FIFA, Batman, Battleborn, MGS, Battlefield, Assassin's Creed, Far Cry....... thank god for indies. That actually sounds like a pretty diverse set of games to me...
Rummy Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 (edited) There's a huge breadth of games on their console, that's been proven, made all the more impressive because they come from a single developer. If any console is lacking variety I would say it's the competition, who are rescued by indie games and download titles. Retail releases though all I see on PS4 are shooters, openworld action games, sports and a few RPGs thrown in. They make up the bulk of retail releases. COD, Fallout, Overwatch, GTA, Doom, Destiny, Witcher, The Division, Battlefront, Bloodborne, Horizon, FIFA, Batman, Battleborn, MGS, Battlefield, Assassin's Creed, Far Cry....... thank god for indies. Again - this is the 'NX thread' not the 'Nintendo as a diverse developer thread'. A huge breadth of games on their console? I can finder huger on competing systems. All the more impressive because they come from a single developer? I don't find it particularly impressive if my system isn't going to have enough on it to give it the extra value of the competition(and again, that isn't even just software but features and functionality too). And that's the point. This is the NX thread. It's about the NX system. Clearly a majority of people here feel that this system has a potential to suffer in the software stakes, as has arguably happened to the WiiU. Not sure how you can say the competition lacks variety, when it's simply got a much greater breadth of titles on it. If you want 'huge breadths' in fact - look to the competition. There's quite simply just more out there for it. That actually sounds like a pretty diverse set of games to me... OMG THIS PLACE MAN. (No I actually rather agree, even if most aren't appealing to me or in my collection presently, I do have the choice of getting them and feel most offer something different!) Edited August 18, 2016 by Rummy
Glen-i Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 (edited) You know that moment when you're just reading along and then it suddenly hits you that things are about to get really ugly? Yeaaahhh... Edited August 18, 2016 by Glen-i
Kav Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 (edited) ...There's a huge breadth of games on their console... Not nearly "huge" enough for it to sell. They need it to be bigger, much bigger. ...and if you honestly think that the WiiU's library has greater breadth than the PS4 or XBO then you are showing yourself to be incredibly narrow-sighted. Edited August 18, 2016 by Kav
Ashley Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 You know that moment when you're just reading along and then it suddenly hits you that things are about to get really ugly? Yeaaahhh... Let's turn it around then! If the detachable controller rumour turns out to be true, what games do you think will have their own add-ons and what will they do? (Open question, not just to you)
Londragon Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Nintendo branded fleshlight add on? Damn you beat me to it. With the handheld portion being VR enabled the uses of Nintendlight are endless. Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
Rummy Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Let's turn it around then! If the detachable controller rumour turns out to be true, what games do you think will have their own add-ons and what will they do? (Open question, not just to you) I hope they don't do too much. Keep it simple and don't overcomplicate things again. I do wonder if there might be some sort of touchpad screen middle to allow for touch screen stuff, but obvs that has a risk of pushing costs up. Maybe just a touchpad(ie no screen) as that'd be cheaper and maybe you can just get your visual feedback on screen like. My real concern is the durability of taking apart and putting together this thing repeatedly. Imagine playing at home every day but also taking your NX portable out with you every day too - I just see it being heavy on the wear and tear and would think give a cheap second/dumb home control pad very similar to the portable console to control things with.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Let's turn it around then! If the detachable controller rumour turns out to be true, what games do you think will have their own add-ons and what will they do? (Open question, not just to you) I could imagine something like a horipad for a Street Fighter, but after the Wii, I'm really lethargic with all the detachable chunks of plastic that end up lying about.
Ronnie Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 (edited) no getting in the last snide word or final thoughts, just move on and agree to disagree You mean like... And that's the end of that convo. Moving on... or snide gifs that people post instead of reasonable conversation? COD, Fallout, Overwatch, GTA, Doom, Destiny, Witcher, The Division, Battlefront, Bloodborne, Horizon, FIFA, Batman, Battleborn, MGS, Battlefield, Assassin's Creed, Far Cry....... thank god for indies. That actually sounds like a pretty diverse set of games to me... Shooter, openworld rpg shooter, shooter, openworld, shooter, shooter, openworld rpg, openworld shooter, shooter, rpg, openworld rpg, sports, openworld action, shooter, openworld action, shooter, openworld action, shooter. And people think Nintendo games lack diversity. *insert snarky gif here* Not nearly "huge" enough for it to sell. They need it to be bigger, much bigger. ...and if you honestly think that the WiiU's library has greater breadth than the PS4 or XBO then you are showing yourself to be incredibly narrow-sighted. I never said there was. I said that Nintendo create the most diverse set of games of any developer out there. It really isn't that controversial a thing to say. I've said from the beginning that what's saving the PS4's library are big third party titles and it's what's clearly missing from Nintendo's. Edited August 18, 2016 by Ronnie Automerged Doublepost
Rummy Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 I still don't think you understand genres, Ronnie.
Rob3008 Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Lock this thread until the whingers get tired and there's some actual news.
Happenstance Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 Lock this thread until the whingers get tired and there's some actual news. It shouldnt have to come to that though. The majority of people on here manage to have interesting discussions despite having differing opinions. Why close a thread and ruin it for everyone else just because one person is constantly causing trouble has has been for way too long.
Kav Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 ...I never said there was. I said that Nintendo create the most diverse set of games of any developer out there. It really isn't that controversial a thing to say. I've said from the beginning that what's saving the PS4's library are big third party titles and it's what's clearly missing from Nintendo's. That they have a greater diversity than other developers means bugger-all when they're a hardware manufacturer and the competition has a much larger breadth of games available on their platforms though. The PS4's library isn't "saved" by Third Parties... that simply IS their library! You can't go on in a way that more or less is saying "if they didn't have Third Parties", for the simple fact of the matter that they DO have those Third Parties on board. It's a completely moot point! The only "saving" Third Parties could do would be to "save" Nintendo!
Goafer Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 You mean like... or snide gifs that people post instead of reasonable conversation? Shooter, openworld rpg shooter, shooter, openworld, shooter, shooter, openworld rpg, openworld shooter, shooter, rpg, openworld rpg, sports, openworld action, shooter, openworld action, shooter, openworld action, shooter. And people think Nintendo games lack diversity. *insert snarky gif here* I never said there was. I said that Nintendo create the most diverse set of games of any developer out there. It really isn't that controversial a thing to say. I've said from the beginning that what's saving the PS4's library are big third party titles and it's what's clearly missing from Nintendo's.
Ronnie Posted August 18, 2016 Posted August 18, 2016 It shouldnt have to come to that though. The majority of people on here manage to have interesting discussions despite having differing opinions. Why close a thread and ruin it for everyone else just because one person is constantly causing trouble has has been for way too long. Charming. The only people trying to cause trouble are the ones trolling with snide gifs instead of reasoned conversation. And mods belittling people and their posts out of the blue. That they have a greater diversity than other developers means bugger-all when they're a hardware manufacturer and the competition has a much larger breadth of games available on their platforms though. I never said it was. This entire conversation started because @Hero\-of\-Time put up a combined list of 3DS and Wii U first and second party titles and I was suggesting that combining them bodes well for Nintendo games on NX. Someone then moaned that Nintendo's games themselves aren't very diverse. I suggested they were, and argued that as a developer Nintendo offer the most varied types of games in the industry. That's all.
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