Posted February 22, 2016 Why are you arguing about Sega on an NX thread on a Nintendo forum? Because someone likened the Wii U's situation to that of the Sega Saturn and claimed both failed because of their software. Without a doubt, that is not the case. If you think discussing things on a discussion forum is 'point scoring' then I'm not sure if you understand why discussion forums exist! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 Don't pretend as though 'points scoring' doesn't take place on here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 Rare were falling apart and it was sold off because the Stamper brothers wanted out. Nintendo bailing on them was the better option. Rare was done before Nintendo sold it off. They passed on the offer for the 51% the Stampers were selling, and then sold the rest since MS bought the majority. Can you actually source those assertions? Ever since the Wii/Iwata era Nintendo have shifted focus from the more realistic/western focused games to more what is in line with what the Japan side produced. Like kav said, why can't we have both? The Japanese side of Nintendo should continue to do produce their colourful and quirky games, while the western side of Nintendo should make more western style games that give more variety to the line up, in terms of both graphics and gameplay. I must admit I've mostly tuned out since this post but I wanted to point out - the two most recent games I've played on an alternative system were Destiny and Dragon Quest Heroes, and that's what makes it brilliant. Two very different games, all round, and especially visually/aesthetically - a bit of the best of both worlds, and I love it. Two games in a very large sea of variety. Nintendo need that sea of variety to succeed IMO, broad appeal to a growing world of 'gamers' who all want different things - you have to grow with it to match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 I was being mildly sarcastic because the discussion went very in depth about Sega, that was all. Lighten up, people! I know what a discussion is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 Don't pretend as though 'points scoring' doesn't take place on here. Well said Retro. +1 point It is true though... I try not to take part in it now, well as much as is possible... sometimes it can be hard not to get caught up in certain "discussions" - we'll call them that for now - because while they can become rather circular, it's frustrating to see most of them not go anywhere and end up in the same place. Such is the nature of a forum sometimes though as we thrive on information, once more solid details start to emerge I think this situation will improve. : peace: For now though... haven't you all got home consoles to go to? I know I for one have plenty of games to play/review without wishing for many more, speaking of which... *gets back to it* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 Just as a point here.. while the Wii U almost certainly is a flop.. I'm not so sure that stands from Nintendo's point of view. If you look at game distribution amongst all three next gen consoles, actually, as a software developer, the Wii U has been pretty good for Nintendo. Sure not compared to the Wii U... but look at it this way: Mario Kart 8 has over 50% of the market. Looking at the competing consoles the best a game has done on either consoles is just shy of 32% market saturation. sure on the PS4 about 20% is equal to 50% in raw sales, but that leads onto my next point. If you look at the PS4/X1, where is the arcade racer in their sales numbers? where is the comparable 2d platformer? where is the mini game compilation, the arcade style left field shooter, even maybe more reasonably the lego game? well below the 20% threshold on the PS4, and well below the 30% threshold on the X1. now ok, they'd only need 10% on the PS4 and 15% on the X1 for equivalent success with MK8 on the Wii U... but it's just not there.... X1 is dominated by shooters, with GTA Fallout.. FIFA, Forza...Mine craft is probably the closest to a Nintendo-esque game. PS4 is similar, although with a slightly different flavour to the X1.. again, Minecraft is the closest they have - that sold around the 5 million mark. I'm not denying that some of their games would still sell ok, but I imagine a fair number of their games would have fallen flat. A lot of people may think that's fine, the "lesser" games aren't much of a loss, but making those games and having them see relative success allows Nintendo's art develop and grow, and I have little doubt that the insignificant games all have influence on the bigger games - maybe things to avoid, maybe things to include, but some influence nevertheless... There's no way of knowing for sure.. but would splatoon have fared as well on the PS4/X1 as it did on the Wii U? Against Cod..Cod.. GTA..Halo.. Assassins Creed...Destiny..Titanfall...Cod...Assassins Creed...Gears of War...Battlefield...Far Cry..Watchdogs et al? Yes it would have offered something different, but I suspect it would have fallen a bit flatter than it has done - I'm certainly not confident with it's tone that it would have hit 4 million. The Wii U may not be doing great, but it's presence on the market creates a space, however small, where Nintendo can market their games with reasonably good confidence that those games will receive a positive reception... In the same way 3rd parties seem to be vindicated in not making their games available on the Wii U, I think Nintendo are vindicated in not making theirs available on the other two platforms. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 If you look at the PS4/X1, where is the arcade racer in their sales numbers? where is the comparable 2d platformer? where is the mini game compilation, the arcade style left field shooter, even maybe more reasonably the lego game? Great point. There's certainly plenty of diversity of genres on Wii U, and the attach rate of said titles is more often than not excellent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 @Pestneb, your whole argument is unfortunately moot because you forget, if those games were on the other consoles then they certainly would have sold more for the simple fact that, without the WiiU, Nintendo fans would've bought the other consoles and got their Nintendo fix there! So they'd have sold to the Nintendo audience still as well as some of the other console's audience too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 @Pestneb, your whole argument is unfortunately moot because you forget, if those games were on the other consoles then they certainly would have sold more for the simple fact that, without the WiiU, Nintendo fans would've bought the other consoles and got their Nintendo fix there! So they'd have sold to the Nintendo audience still as well as some of the other console's audience too. Any time anyone uses that word I instantly go straight to this. Anyway, carry on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) @Pestneb, your whole argument is unfortunately moot because you forget, if those games were on the other consoles then they certainly would have sold more for the simple fact that, without the WiiU, Nintendo fans would've bought the other consoles and got their Nintendo fix there! So they'd have sold to the Nintendo audience still as well as some of the other console's audience too. Is it moot though? Even on Nintendo consoles, the most popular games are the one that gain the most attention which leads to even more sales. Even in other markets... films, music... that prominence from being popular leads to people going with the flow.. Going back to splatoon, it fits in nicely in terms of art style with a lot of Nintendo's games, but clashes with the majority of PS4/X1 games. I think the sales it would get would be a subset of those who bought splatoon... while the majority of gamers would have passed it up for the latest regular shooter... Basically I don't think shifting over to the "mature" consoles would boost Nintendo's presence with "mature" gamers, I think it would reduce their mind share of the audience they already have. Far healthier imo to put out a console that stands it's own (much more akin to the Gamecube than the Wii.. just without silly idea's) and work towards rebuilding a relationship with the audience they have lost to their competitors. Edited February 22, 2016 by Pestneb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 I would suggest that us Wii U only owners have far more Nintendo games in terms of % in our library than those of you who own PS4s/X1s... Certainly not the case for me. I own pretty much all the games Nintendo have shoved out on the Wii U. For me, there's simply not enough games on the console to keep me playing it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 Certainly not the case for me. I own pretty much all the games Nintendo have shoved out on the Wii U. For me, there's simply not enough games on the console to keep me playing it. Unless I am mistaken you consume games at an unearthly rate...your appetite is insatiable. But a regular gamer (apparently, according to statistics I have seen) only consumes about 10-15 games a console. If you look at even your library, X1/PS4/Wii U (not sure how many platforms you own!) what % are Nintendo titles? As it is, for those with a Wii U, how many of us can say we haven't owned at least 3 of the titles in the following list: Mario Kart 8 New Super Mario Bros U Super Smash Bros U Nintendo Land Splatoon Super Mario 3D World Super Mario Maker New Super Luigi U Wii Party U The Legend of Zelda*: The Wind Waker Mario Party 10 Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze Hyrule Warriors Yoshi's Woolly world Captain Toad*: treasure tracker Lego City undercover Pikmin 3 I'm fairly confident that most of us have more than just 4, certainly I realise I own 11. Honestly, do I think I would own 11 if they were 3rd party titles, the Wii U didn't exist and I had a PS4/X1? I doubt it tbh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 Unless I am mistaken you consume games at an unearthly rate...your appetite is insatiable. But a regular gamer (apparently, according to statistics I have seen) only consumes about 10-15 games a console. If you look at even your library, X1/PS4/Wii U (not sure how many platforms you own!) what % are Nintendo titles? I'll have a look when once I get in from work. We talking Wii U/3DS or just Wii U here? What about Virtual Console games and eShop stuff? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 I'll have a look when once I get in from work. We talking Wii U/3DS or just Wii U here? What about Virtual Console games and eShop stuff? Throw it all in. It'd actually be quite interesting to see the breakdowns of peoples libraries. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 I'll have a look when once I get in from work. We talking Wii U/3DS or just Wii U here? What about Virtual Console games and eShop stuff? Wii U.. vc games/eshop up to you, I imagine that represents a fair bit more work. Personally I was only thinking retail games. Just thinking it could be interesting to see across the board.. if everyone responded (which I know they wouldn't ) maybe we'd have something that's not entirely unrepresentative of reality? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 98% of the games I own are on 3DS and WiiU, the other 2% is Football Manager 2016 :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 Unless I am mistaken you consume games at an unearthly rate...your appetite is insatiable. But a regular gamer (apparently, according to statistics I have seen) only consumes about 10-15 games a console. If you look at even your library, X1/PS4/Wii U (not sure how many platforms you own!) what % are Nintendo titles? As it is, for those with a Wii U, how many of us can say we haven't owned at least 3 of the titles in the following list: Mario Kart 8 New Super Mario Bros U Super Smash Bros U Nintendo Land Splatoon Super Mario 3D World Super Mario Maker New Super Luigi U Wii Party U The Legend of Zelda*: The Wind Waker Mario Party 10 Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze Hyrule Warriors Yoshi's Woolly world Captain Toad*: treasure tracker Lego City undercover Pikmin 3 I'm fairly confident that most of us have more than just 4, certainly I realise I own 11. Honestly, do I think I would own 11 if they were 3rd party titles, the Wii U didn't exist and I had a PS4/X1? I doubt it tbh. Well of course the majority of us will own some of the above titles there hasn't been very much 3rd party content. For the past couple of years you can either buy Nintendo titles or pretty much nothing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 To be fair, Nintendo games probably wouldn't have quite as high sales if there was other stuff to play on the Wii U other than their own stuff. Nintendo gamers are starved of games, so when one comes along, a lot of people buy it. Not saying that it's the sole reason Nintendo games have such ridiculous sales, because lots of the games do deserve their success. But I think it definitely is a factor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 Well of course the majority of us will own some of the above titles there hasn't been very much 3rd party content. For the past couple of years you can either buy Nintendo titles or pretty much nothing. exactly my point though - if the Wii U didn't exist and those games were on the PS4, we would have had more games to choose from, and our choices would (imo) likely been less Nintendo focused... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 Unless I am mistaken you consume games at an unearthly rate...your appetite is insatiable. But a regular gamer (apparently, according to statistics I have seen) only consumes about 10-15 games a console. If you look at even your library, X1/PS4/Wii U (not sure how many platforms you own!) what % are Nintendo titles? As it is, for those with a Wii U, how many of us can say we haven't owned at least 3 of the titles in the following list: Mario Kart 8 New Super Mario Bros U Super Smash Bros U Nintendo Land Splatoon Super Mario 3D World Super Mario Maker New Super Luigi U Wii Party U The Legend of Zelda*: The Wind Waker Mario Party 10 Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze Hyrule Warriors Yoshi's Woolly world Captain Toad*: treasure tracker Lego City undercover Pikmin 3 I'm fairly confident that most of us have more than just 4, certainly I realise I own 11. Honestly, do I think I would own 11 if they were 3rd party titles, the Wii U didn't exist and I had a PS4/X1? I doubt it tbh. I'd have bought all of those that I did buy, the difference is that I'd still be playing them instead of shelving them or trading them in! If you don't think you'd have bought them then the games simply aren't good enough! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 I have not felt the need to buy a Wii U, and yet before that I'd been quick to snap up any Nintendo console... bought the N64, Gamecube, Wii, Gameboy, GBC, DS original, DS, 3DS. For me it's the way Nintendo are using their franchises at the moment. Whilst some are being flat out ignored (and I've stated my disappointment on this numerous times), others I feel are being/beginning to feel cheapened. Over the generations Paper Mario should have evolved into something like Tearaway by now, but it's barely changed. StarFox should now be something more akin to Strike Vector EX, but it's still very much the same game. Mario Tennis, Golf, Party, instead of being refined are becoming gimmicky messes. I appreciate that Mario comes out each generation and tries something new (even if I wasn't a fan of the latest attempt, or chubby art style), and whilst I was one of the few who loved Skyward Sword, it's great to see the next Zelda going all out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 To be fair, Nintendo games probably wouldn't have quite as high sales if there was other stuff to play on the Wii U other than their own stuff. Nintendo gamers are starved of games, so when one comes along, a lot of people buy it. Not saying that it's the sole reason Nintendo games have such ridiculous sales, because lots of the games do deserve their success. But I think it definitely is a factor. In terms of 3rd party titles in the top 25 sellers on Nintendo consoles: Wii U -3 Wii -9 GC -6 N64 -2 Snes -10 Nes -7 So really snes was king for third parties with Nintendo... the N64 killed it, GC made some progress.. the Wii looks to have continued that, but the majority were just dance titles.. Wii U actually has a much more robust support from 3rd parties imo, even if numerically it looks like a big step backwards. I would say N64 did better with 3rd parties than the Wii. But as I said, Nintendo consoles about creating an ecosystem for Nintendo games. And they do that really well.. but to increase marketshare I think they need to invest in 2nd parties who can fill in some gaps.. a few exclusives that round out the library. Metroid did that fantastically on the GC as an example..sadly retro don't seem to have been allowed (or perhaps able) to really go forward and make themselves stand out more in the western market. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 To be fair, Nintendo games probably wouldn't have quite as high sales if there was other stuff to play on the Wii U other than their own stuff. Nintendo gamers are starved of games, so when one comes along, a lot of people buy it. Not saying that it's the sole reason Nintendo games have such ridiculous sales, because lots of the games do deserve their success. But I think it definitely is a factor. I really don't think that's the case. If people only bought Nintendo's games because they're "starved", then Wonderful 101 would have done well. Donkey Kong wouldn't have taken over a year to hit a million. Captain Toad would have hit a million and so forth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 22, 2016 I really don't think that's the case. If people only bought Nintendo's games because they're "starved", then Wonderful 101 would have done well. Donkey Kong wouldn't have taken over a year to hit a million. Captain Toad would have hit a million and so forth. He didn't say every Nintendo game has done well because of it. Audience desires obviously still play a part, which would explain the games you mentioned. Essentially what I think Paul was trying to get at is owners of only Nintendo consoles are more likely to say "hmm it's been a while since I got a game [due to only having access to a 1/3* of games available], this has just come out, let's give it a go" rather than "it's a new game! Must get it because I don't have another console!" *obviously not literally a third of games available, but rather owning a third of consoles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
