Serebii Posted October 14, 2016 Author Posted October 14, 2016 But since then they've wrestled more into mobile which is actually making them a decent chunk of money. Obviously none of us know their finances (until they release them next May anyway ) but one possibility could be to have the NX be a loss-leader and try and make it up in a combination of software and other revenue sources (including mobile, amiibos and...paid for online service?) Is it though? All evidence points to Miitomo not making much money, and Pokémon GO's money mostly goes to TPC and Niantic
Hero-of-Time Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) But since then they've wrestled more into mobile which is actually making them a decent chunk of money. Obviously none of us know their finances (until they release them next May anyway ) but one possibility could be to have the NX be a loss-leader and try and make it up in a combination of software and other revenue sources (including mobile, amiibos and...paid for online service?) Yeah, I agree. I kinda hinted about that in my reply to Serebii. It's certainly an option for them now, depending on how Mario does, of course. I wonder how sale of amiibo are doing right now? Obviously they aren't a hot product as they used to be and certain things have fell really flat, such as the Animal Crossing line and the dioramas. It will be interesting to see how they continue with them and how much money they can still make off them during the NX era. Is it though? All evidence points to Miitomo not making much money, and Pokémon GO's money mostly goes to TPC and Niantic This is why I think Mario will be the big factor on whether they can be as success in the mobile space with their own established IP. I still think the Animal Crossing mobile game could be a huge hit for them as well, if handled correctly. Edited October 14, 2016 by Hero-of-Time Automerged Doublepost
Ashley Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 (didn't see this page when doing my above reply) Yep. Sony & Microsoft could because they're huge media conglomerates, so they could take the hit on their devices. Hell, that's part of why many Microsoft execs have been pushing to drop the Xbox brand in years past, because all it did was drain finances, it didn't add profit until what, 2009? Even then it hasn't made up for the loss it took. Same with the huge loss of the PS3. It's not a viable business strategy. Nintendo on the other hand are pure games. They are now expanding, but they still cannot take a huge hit if they can't offset it somehow, and with the NX not being a guaranteed success, they wouldn't be able to entirely offset it with third party licensing and they're not likely to charge for online either People criticised Nintendo's first financial loss, but they didn't take into account that the majority of the loss was because the 3DS took off and sold 11 million units in that financial year at a significant loss. That loss was because the 3DS was finally a success, not because it had floundered. Despite Nintendo's bad times the last two years, they've even been able to make a profit, which shows that Nintendo know what they're doing. It's not ideal, but it's probable that the NX may be a little bit "overpriced" so they can actually make a profit, and it just be a moderate success, and that's fine...things don't need to break records. Wait, is this not the same Nintendo that we said could handle the Wii U's poor sales because of their "war chest"? Has that war chest now gone, or are they only able to use it to support poor sales rather than try and encourage sales? Is it though? All evidence points to Miitomo not making much money, and Pokémon GO's money mostly goes to TPC and Niantic None of us know the ROI for Miitomo, but we do know they're pretty much getting a 100% ROI on Go so even if its not much (although 16% of what that game is reported to be making is nothing to be sniffed at), it is there with no effort on Nintendo's part.
Serebii Posted October 14, 2016 Author Posted October 14, 2016 Wait, is this not the same Nintendo that we said could handle the Wii U's poor sales because of their "war chest"? Has that war chest now gone, or are they only able to use it to support poor sales rather than try and encourage sales? Diminishing the reserves is not a valid factor. Plus those reserves have been dented by Nintendo's expansion and their necessity in buying back the Yamauchi shares. Nintendo can theoretically take a loss, but doing so would hinder the future. If they said "Oh, we can sell this at a loss because we have the war chest", then the CEO should be fired. This is why I think Mario will be the big factor on whether they can be as success in the mobile space with their own established IP. I still think the Animal Crossing mobile game could be a huge hit for them as well, if handled correctly. Agreed, and with Animal Crossing mobile linking into the Animal Crossing games (according to what they've said), it is a prime example of using Mobile titles to push people into the dedicated platform. I just wonder if it'll link into New Leaf via the new update or through a NX launch game :p
Ashley Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 Diminishing the reserves is not a valid factor. Plus those reserves have been dented by Nintendo's expansion and their necessity in buying back the Yamauchi shares. Nintendo can theoretically take a loss, but doing so would hinder the future. If they said "Oh, we can sell this at a loss because we have the war chest", then the CEO should be fired. You heard of a stimulus package? It's all just theoretical anyway. None of us know the details so we can merely come up with "what ifs". To say "Oh, we can sell this at a loss because we have the war chest" is a gross simplification of my point and I wish you wouldn't. It's not some brazen "we've got stacks on stacks on stacks, let's just blow it". It's making an informed (by Nintendo, not me obviously) decision to lower the price by talking a calculated risk that it will be returned in other means as I explained above. They'd ideally do something similar to what Sony did with the PS4 - make it profitable with the sale of one piece of software. Few people buy a console without software (presumably its just those looking to ebay it) and your early adopters are more likely to have a greater attach rate than that anyway. I'm not saying it should happen, it's just an idea. A possibility. A talking point while we wait for that NX reveal.
Serebii Posted October 14, 2016 Author Posted October 14, 2016 You heard of a stimulus package? It's all just theoretical anyway. None of us know the details so we can merely come up with "what ifs". To say "Oh, we can sell this at a loss because we have the war chest" is a gross simplification of my point and I wish you wouldn't. It's not some brazen "we've got stacks on stacks on stacks, let's just blow it". It's making an informed (by Nintendo, not me obviously) decision to lower the price by talking a calculated risk that it will be returned in other means as I explained above. They'd ideally do something similar to what Sony did with the PS4 - make it profitable with the sale of one piece of software. Few people buy a console without software (presumably its just those looking to ebay it) and your early adopters are more likely to have a greater attach rate than that anyway. I'm not saying it should happen, it's just an idea. A possibility. A talking point while we wait for that NX reveal. http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/11/21/wii-u-becomes-profitable-after-one-games-sale Nintendo has revealed that it starts making money on Wii U sales once consumers buy a single game. Worked well then :p
dazzybee Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 From the rumours i'm seeing this less as a hybrid but more as a very powerful handheld that enables games to be played on the TV much like the GB player did for the GB. But isn't that a hybrid anyway? Would turn it into a hybrid for you?
Ashley Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 http://uk.ign.com/articles/2012/11/21/wii-u-becomes-profitable-after-one-games-sale Worked well then :p Yeah all those people that didn't buy a Wii U did so because they knew it wasn't profitable on its own
Serebii Posted October 14, 2016 Author Posted October 14, 2016 What time is the reveal at today @Serebii? :p 14:00 but it's Pokémon Sun & Moon, not NX *runs*
Ashley Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 14:00 but it's Pokémon Sun & Moon, not NX *runs* What if the NX is Pokémon Sun & Moon? After all Sun in Hungarian is 'Nap' and moon is when there's no (X) sun... To reddit!
Clownferret Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 What time is the reveal at today @Serebii? :p it was yesterday mate and it was f*****g awesome. Shame you missed it and we've all had to sign NDA's with @Serebii so we can't even tell you about it.
Rummy Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 It's not ideal, but it's probable that the NX may be a little bit "overpriced" so they can actually make a profit, and it just be a moderate success, and that's fine...things don't need to break records. Could the same not be(as Ashley's touched on) applied to the Wii U and if yes, then why does it not actually feel as if that was just fine?
Agent Gibbs Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 Definitely agree. They need to play safe and just take a hit, to get themselves built back up to a point. They had tons in the coffers from the Wii - and they probably blew such a chunk of it on the WiiU - playing wild hoping to repeat the flash in the pan that the Wii was. They got cocky and they paid a price. Hell, they still to date imo haven't even supported their own product the Wii U with enough of the asymmetrical gaming experiences that I felt they really promised for it's approach as a system. I'm not sure marketing to casuals is the thing though. Ongoing 3DS owners, maybe. Casuals, not so much. Many casuals have moved on from Wii/DS to mobile etc; they don't strike me(if they're truly casual) to drop dime on a gaming system and the price that the games come in at for it. Ofc if they captured that market before with the DS they may manage to capture it again if they do it absolutely right, but I just think with the state of everything right now less people than we think might come back. the stuff about casuals was a little too subtly tongue in cheek to previous arguments in this thread - but i do feel they need strong marketing to make this work Kimishima said back in May that Nintendo won't sell the NX at a loss. They can't sustain a business that way. I get that, but they cannot sustain a business with WiiU level hardware and a price in line with arguably better hardware on offer, nobody will buy it. not to mention public perception, look to the Xbone and how it took a hit due to public perception, they need to turn both those issues around. A competitive price is required to make the product desireable, whilst also acknowledge that its key audience dropped around £350 previously on a console thats not had the support or longevity it should have had.
liger05 Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 Nintendo take the hit? That would be crazy. Nintendo shouldnt be looking to lose money right off the bat with the NX. What will be frustrating is if the price is driven up by unnecessary reasons like the wii u was.
Hero-of-Time Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 I get that, but they cannot sustain a business with WiiU level hardware and a price in line with arguably better hardware on offer, nobody will buy it.not to mention public perception, look to the Xbone and how it took a hit due to public perception, they need to turn both those issues around. A competitive price is required to make the product desireable, whilst also acknowledge that its key audience dropped around £350 previously on a console thats not had the support or longevity it should have had. I agree it needs to be a competitive price but not if it causes damage in the long run. Either way, they've certain got an uphill battle with the NX, in terms of both price ( due to how their competitors are placed ) and how people perceive them.
Sheikah Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 Nintendo take the hit? That would be crazy. Nintendo shouldnt be looking to lose money right off the bat with the NX. What will be frustrating is if the price is driven up by unnecessary reasons like the wii u was. Why not? PS4 did, and it made it $100 cheaper than the competition - and the rest is history.
liger05 Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 Why not? PS4 did, and it made it $100 cheaper than the competition - and the rest is history. If nintendo can offer a mandatory online service like PSN to ensure the console is sold at profit then yes go ahead. What they don't need to be doing is taking a unnecessary loss and then hoping they can make it up with software sales.
Kav Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 If nintendo can offer a mandatory online service like PSN to ensure the console is sold at profit then yes go ahead. What they don't need to be doing is taking a unnecessary loss and then hoping they can make it up with software sales. Or a Virtual Console library subscription.
liger05 Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 Or a Virtual Console library subscription. Yes but thats not mandatory. Online is a must for so many people so they pay. It's interesting how people see price. On the one hand people want a powerful Nintendo device with top specs but then they want a cheaply priced product. I jut don't think both is possible.
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 Yes but thats not mandatory. Online is a must for so many people so they pay. It's interesting how people see price. On the one hand people want a powerful Nintendo device with top specs but then they want a cheaply priced product. I jut don't think both is possible. I'd definitely pay a premium price for a powerful Nintendo system without a doubt.
Hero-of-Time Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 It's interesting how people see price. On the one hand people want a powerful Nintendo device with top specs but then they want a cheaply priced product. I jut don't think both is possible. I think it's because most see a Nintendo console as a Nintendo Box. If the console was guaranteed to get the same 3rd party games as the other consoles, as well as Nintendo's own offerings, then I don't think people would complain about the cost. They would have all the bases covered.
nekunando Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 I'm finding it a little difficult to complain about the cost of a console we haven't seen or know anything concrete about with a price that we haven't seen or know anything concrete about.. Unless Nintendo tick every single box this time, which is basically impossible, there's going to be endless complaining online, unfortunately..
Hero-of-Time Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 Unless Nintendo tick every single box this time, which is basically impossible, there's going to be endless complaining online, unfortunately.. I don't think it's impossible, it's just something they don't want to do. Most people just seem to want a Nintendo console that has the same online features and 3rd party support as the other two offer. Both can be easily done but it's not a path Nintendo wishes to take, for whatever reason.
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