Falcon_BlizZACK Posted August 9, 2016 Posted August 9, 2016 @Hero But you're missing the sports titles of the 3DS (def remember a Fifa and Pro Evo), then theres Resident Evil, Street Fighter 4, Final Fantasy... - in any case for me, that's still an attractive line-up. EDIT: D'oh you're talking first party. Apologies.
Hero-of-Time Posted August 9, 2016 Posted August 9, 2016 King_V said: @Hero But you're missing the sports titles of the 3DS (def remember a Fifa and Pro Evo), then theres Resident Evil, Street Fighter 4, Final Fantasy... - in any case for me, that's still an attractive line-up. EDIT: D'oh you're talking first party. Apologies. Yeah, I was trying to keep it to exclusives because this gives you an idea of what it would look like if the mainstream 3rd party titles and companies don't arrive for the NX.
Pestneb Posted August 9, 2016 Posted August 9, 2016 I wonder if the dock could act as a street pass hot spot, so people passing your house street pass you and people you pass in the street on the handheld also count... could be a good way of boosting hits. Not that my 3ds currently gets any when I am at home... but if the dock had a better range
Kav Posted August 9, 2016 Posted August 9, 2016 The dock has to be the Supplementary Computing Device that they patented... it has to be! That would drive up the hype in NX for sure!
Ashley Posted August 9, 2016 Posted August 9, 2016 King_V said: the girth of first party titles. I'm curious about the idea of the first six months or so mostly being Nintendo and then going all out with third party for next Christmas. Providing they do indeed go balls deep. (what? King_V started it)
Falcon_BlizZACK Posted August 9, 2016 Posted August 9, 2016 (edited) @Ashley Balls deep + no lube = (Referring to Nintendo's strategy of course) Edited August 9, 2016 by King_V
Rummy Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Pestneb said: I wonder if the dock could act as a street pass hot spot, so people passing your house street pass you and people you pass in the street on the handheld also count... could be a good way of boosting hits. Not that my 3ds currently gets any when I am at home... but if the dock had a better range I do like the idea! I'd wonder for that though with obvious concerns over whether you want people figuring out where you/your NX lives though :p?
Clownferret Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 They certainly need to address the complete lack of sports titles that blemished the Wii U and I don't mean Nintendo party sports games.
Ronnie Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 That's an incredible line up of combined first party games, wow. There may be gaps but that's a huge variety of genres and titles.
Serebii Posted August 10, 2016 Author Posted August 10, 2016 It's not fair that people expect Nintendo to cover every single genre though. When you compare first party output, Nintendo's is by far the most varied, yet people act like all they do is Mario and Zelda.
Goron_3 Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Serebii said: It's not fair that people expect Nintendo to cover every single genre though. When you compare first party output, Nintendo's is by far the most varied, yet people act like all they do is Mario and Zelda. They don't need to develop other genres; they need to procure them.
Kav Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Serebii said: It's not fair that people expect Nintendo to cover every single genre though. When you compare first party output, Nintendo's is by far the most varied, yet people act like all they do is Mario and Zelda. Not fair?! This is business, if they want more custom the they have to cater for a wider audience. It's perfectly fair to say so. So what if Sony and Microsoft's first party offerings don't have that breadth either, they don't need it! They have third parties covering it for them. Nintendo are the ones that need it and they've only themselves to blame!
Ronnie Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Serebii said: It's not fair that people expect Nintendo to cover every single genre though. When you compare first party output, Nintendo's is by far the most varied, yet people act like all they do is Mario and Zelda. Of the list Hero-of-Time put up, these are the genres included Kart racer Puzzle "Mini Maze Adventure" 2D Platformer 3D Platformer Adventure JRPG Action RPG Sports Fitness Art Life Sim Action Party Third person shooter Hack and Slash Level creator Retro collection Strategy Fighter Horror Online shooter Brawler Arcade shooter Short of driving sim, and gritty realistic openworld/shooter they deserve credit for touching on so many types of games, even if the quantity may not be there (understandable given this is only first party offerings)
Rummy Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) Ronnie said: Of the list Hero-of-Time put up, these are the genres included Kart racer Puzzle "Mini Maze Adventure" 2D Platformer 3D Platformer Adventure JRPG Action RPG Sports Fitness Art Life Sim Action Party Third person shooter Hack and Slash Level creator Retro collection Strategy Fighter Horror Online shooter Brawler Arcade shooter Short of driving sim, and gritty realistic openworld/shooter they deserve credit for touching on so many types of games, even if the quantity may not be there (understandable given this is only first party offerings) Those genres being concretely defined by....? Any chance you'd want to actually put the games into their categories to open such a weak argument up to some actual scrutiny? 77 games there to 24 genres btw. Even assuming an even distribution, which there most likely isn't, that's a minimum of about 3 games per 'genre'. Take that it's likely some are less than the others, you're possibly looking at some 'genres' being more heavily populated than others - is there then diversity and variety in the lesser represented genres? Edited August 10, 2016 by Rummy
Ronnie Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Rummy said: Those genres being concretely defined by....? Any chance you'd want to actually put the games into their categories to open such a weak argument up to some actual scrutiny? 77 games there to 24 genres btw. Even assuming an even distribution, which there most likely isn't, that's a minimum of about 3 games per 'genre'. Take that it's likely some are less than the others, you're possibly looking at some 'genres' being more heavily populated than others - is there then diversity and variety in the lesser represented genres? What a weak argument. We're talking first/second party games in 4-5 years here. You're not going to get Nintendo putting out a dozen games per genre in that time.
Sheikah Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 kav82 said: Not fair?! This is business, if they want more custom the they have to cater for a wider audience. It's perfectly fair to say so. So what if Sony and Microsoft's first party offerings don't have that breadth either, they don't need it! They have third parties covering it for them. Nintendo are the ones that need it and they've only themselves to blame! @Serebii like kav says, it's completely fair to expect something different of Nintendo, as they're in a totally different situation. Ronnie said: Of the list Hero-of-Time put up, these are the genres included Kart racer Puzzle "Mini Maze Adventure" 2D Platformer 3D Platformer Adventure JRPG Action RPG Sports Fitness Art Life Sim Action Party Third person shooter Hack and Slash Level creator Retro collection Strategy Fighter Horror Online shooter Brawler Arcade shooter Short of driving sim, and gritty realistic openworld/shooter they deserve credit for touching on so many types of games, even if the quantity may not be there (understandable given this is only first party offerings) And yet look at other consoles and you will see they have even more genres (many Indie games with entirely new genres of their own), and most importantly, several examples for each genre (not just 1, or maybe 2). They're also made by very different companies with their own styles.
Glen-i Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 @Ronnie, I want to agree with you so bad, but I find it hard to sympathise when you're classifying my favourite game as "Mini Maze Adventure" Mini Maze Adventure!?
Rummy Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Ronnie said: What a weak argument. We're talking first/second party games in 4-5 years here. You're not going to get Nintendo putting out a dozen games per genre in that time. Excellent debating skills as ever - taking my own criticism and throwing it back at me whilst completely ignoring and not addressing my actual points and requests. Good contribution to the discussion.
Ashley Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Guys. Wikipedia has pages which list games per console with genres. Either do some statistical analysis or stop getting so irate over disagreements if nobody is willing to do the bloody leg work.
Rummy Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) Ashley said: Guys. Wikipedia has pages which list games per console with genres. Either do some statistical analysis or stop getting so irate over disagreements if nobody is willing to do the bloody leg work. I'm willing to do the work, I was just asking by what categorisation it was determined for exactly that reason :p Not that I'm saying wikipedia is necessarily as credible - but I'd prefer to take a classification of the genres(not saying it wasn't, I in fact asked for the basis) from an outside source, given the context of the discussion :p I can hardly disagree with any of it, if I know what none of it applies to! Taking a list of 77 games, and listing 24 'genres' for them, without really defining it, is rather weak and disingenuous in a discussion about variety. It's making a point whilst very likely missing the essential point. For example - let's take Minecraft and Terraria - are these games in the same genre? I hear Terraria called a '2D minecraft' does that distinguish it enough from the former? Are there more similarities or differences? Where do the lines get drawn? Throw Starbound in, which is more like Terraria than Minecraft given the 2D nature but still rather distinct in a number of ways, are they still the same genre? There's a lot of variety between the latter two, and between the three, but are they still the same genre? THEN let's take, from H-o-T's example - NSMBU, NSLU, and maybe NSMB2(and be mindful of both NSMB1 and SMBWii, which aren't represented here). Let's take MK7 and MK8. Clearly these fall into 2 genres each - but then how much variety is there between games within those genres? Again, to try to put it all apart as varied 'genres' and argue that is good enough is quite simply not, when the games even within genres are incredibly similar. The argument was about diversity and variety, presumably applied on an individual game level, rather than just on 'genres'. Hating to go back to the previous allegory but would you go to the cinema to see 4-5 different films within the same genre if they all had the same plot, actors, etcetc? Edited August 10, 2016 by Rummy
Pestneb Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 (edited) Rummy said: I do like the idea! I'd wonder for that though with obvious concerns over whether you want people figuring out where you/your NX lives though :p? I thought about that a little and there are a few things they could do to make that harder. Reveal hidden contents firstly, they could have the dock in a passive receive state. the NX transmits a simple short id code, the dock picks it up and informs a server. The server, having registered the hit informs the NX at some future point when the NX is docked. for multiple hits Nintendo could add in delays - say after the second hit, each day you have a 1/2 chance of being informed of the hit, after the third hit you have a 1/3 chance of being informed each day. something along those lines would make it hard to say "ok so I stood outside number 3 on that street and got a hit, must be an NX dock inside" because it could just as easily be number 2.. or a house in a different street. That's a simple solution, but Nintendo could apply a more secure one easily enough. For NX on NX streetpasses it could work the same as with the 3ds - I don't believe that has caused issues? Actually.. if the NX dock works like Nintendo zones currently seem to, there'd be little worry about giving locations away.. I seem to need to stay in a shop for a good hour before I get a hit.. and I think people would get suspicious if they saw someone loitering for an hour in each garden on a street Rummy said: Those genres being concretely defined by....? Any chance you'd want to actually put the games into their categories to open such a weak argument up to some actual scrutiny? 77 games there to 24 genres btw. Even assuming an even distribution, which there most likely isn't, that's a minimum of about 3 games per 'genre'. Take that it's likely some are less than the others, you're possibly looking at some 'genres' being more heavily populated than others - is there then diversity and variety in the lesser represented genres? To be fair I'd prefer 2/3 great games in a genre than 20/30 poor games in that genre. I think the quality of the games is good, my main issue with Nintendo is their lack of voice chat (I know that's been done to death :P) which actually isn't a huge thing for me - I love vc but Nintendo games are great even without it, for me at least. VC would just be a very tasty cherry on the cake. The next issue is more to do with the number of people I can play these games with. Having 100 million players on the Wii wouldn't do much to help with that if only 5M were buying the games I was interested in. Edited August 10, 2016 by Pestneb
Sheikah Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 I just don't see how anyone can claim that a console almost entirely supported by a single company can have any true sense of diversity. Imagine if you could only eat chocolate made by Cadbury's - you might have a lot of different chocolate bars, but the base chocolate in every bar tastes awfully familiar. The same characters, themes and gameplay pop up time and time again. Most of the time they aren't really trying to innovate on any real level - NSMBU is a great example of that.
Mr-Paul Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Does it matter just how many genres are covered? The fact is, Nintendo's console is missing a whole ton of games and under-represented in genres that sell bucketloads on other consoles. And as Sheikah above says, the Nintendo style doesn't do it for everyone. By only having Nintendo producing games, despite their efforts to cover many genres, many won't be interested. His chocolate analogy is a good one. It's also like going to a food court and there's only McDonalds, which might have lots of choice there that you like, but there's another food court which has Burger King, Pizza Hut, KFC, Subway, so it has more different options available so is more likely to appeal to more people, therefore that food court will most likely get more business, despite the individual popularity of McDonalds.
Pestneb Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Which makes me think the NX is a great plan for Nintendo. Nintendo are the only handheld manufacturer (Sony have pretty much left that space now, right?) so there is no competition there. get their 40 million or so Handheld customers.. how many of those don't own a Wii U? assuming next to none... that's still 40 million customers they are focusing on. Drum up a bit of 3rd party support and build up from there. If they manage to turn things around, grow the fan base and compete in terms of their user base with Sony and Microsoft, maybe up their console power to approach those two and begin to compete with them. Looking at the Wii U it was perhaps a step towards that - as I understand it the gap between Wii U and X1 is less than the Wii and PS3/X360... NX won't bridge that gap, but if it lessens it a small amount while bringing portability... I am interested in any case. Can't be too many days till we find out more info now!
Ashley Posted August 10, 2016 Posted August 10, 2016 Rummy said: I'm willing to do the work, I was just asking by what categorisation it was determined for exactly that reason :p Not that I'm saying wikipedia is necessarily as credible - but I'd prefer to take a classification of the genres(not saying it wasn't, I in fact asked for the basis) from an outside source, given the context of the discussion :p I can hardly disagree with any of it, if I know what none of it applies to! Oh yeah I wasn't suggesting it was perfect as pages are edited by different people, but at least it's a bit more consistent and a bit more quantifiable than "well I think this game is a 2D hero-based tonally-blue postmodern homage to the platform genre of the late 80s but not the early 00s". Pestneb said: Which makes me think the NX is a great plan for Nintendo. Nintendo are the only handheld manufacturer (Sony have pretty much left that space now, right?) so there is no competition there. get their 40 million or so Handheld customers.. how many of those don't own a Wii U? assuming next to none... that's still 40 million customers they are focusing on. Drum up a bit of 3rd party support and build up from there. If they manage to turn things around, grow the fan base and compete in terms of their user base with Sony and Microsoft, maybe up their console power to approach those two and begin to compete with them.Looking at the Wii U it was perhaps a step towards that - as I understand it the gap between Wii U and X1 is less than the Wii and PS3/X360... NX won't bridge that gap, but if it lessens it a small amount while bringing portability... I am interested in any case. Can't be too many days till we find out more info now! Yeah Sony has quietly dropped the Vita it seems, no mention of it in ages. But even so, there's still support from it so if Nintendo do produce a great product it bodes well. They need to make it easy for smaller developers to release on there and it will really help get a good range of stuff on there, even if its not all in retail.
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