Nintendo Switch - Happy Switchmas Everyone!

[Ronnie]

Problem is that the casual market is far too fickle. You simply can't rely on them to show up and give you the sales you need.

 

While I agree that launching a machine on par with the others mid gen is suicide, relying on the casual/expanded audience isn't that great either.

 

The family market is huge to them as well, a market that's far more likely to spend £100 on an NX than £300. I think their goal is to get as many units out there as possible and let the games sell themselves. I genuinely think a PS4-like NX would sell even worse than the Wii U did at this point in time.

 

I think releasing any console mid-gen will be a huge mistake from Nintendo right now. They need to ride out the WiiU a little longer. They should give it a Party Chat system, that'd give it the legs it needs for me.

 

Did you honestly just suggest adding party chat to Wii U as a solution to Nintendo's current problems?

[Ashley]

Well in two years, the Wii U will have been out for 5 years and that's been the usual length of a generation, barring the overly long one we just left.

 

If anything I think they're becoming the norm. The PS2 had support for ten years and the PS3 about the same. Granted successors came out in that time, but it's indicative of a longer life. I think generations are slowly increasing in length. I can see the PS5/next Xbox coming out in 2020.

 

 

Did you honestly just suggest adding party chat to Wii U as a solution to Nintendo's current problems?

 

He did say "for me".

[Kav]

@Ronnie, I posted a few posts earlier in regards to what I think they should do with the NX. I just think they shouldn't release it too soon and they should ride out the WiiU longer than it seems they're going to.

[Grazza]

Regarding parity with Xbox One/PS4, one man's "copying the others" is another man's "taking part in the wider industry".

 

Nintendo is just one manufacturer/developer (and a fine one too), but the industry is also made up of other manufacturers, publishers and 3rd-party developers, not to mention those who create middleware. Every once in a while, all those people move forward as one, deciding to focus on new technical standards. This is why the term "generation" has greater meaning than just "timing", much as that angers some. The point of Nintendo adapting to these standards would not necessarily be to win over Xbox/PlayStation fans, but simply to get the games.

 

Yes, Nintendo has innovated, but there is a difference between innovating out of necessity and innovating out of desperation. I'd argue the whole "Blue Ocean" strategy is one of desperation, as it's built on fear of the Red Ocean. There have been some genuinely good innovations such as analogue sticks and rumble, but when there is a need for them, the industry will come up with them.

 

There is still a great deal of mystery surrounding NX, and the timing of it is a particularly thorny issue. If it's a home console, it may well be that it's too late for the current generation and too early for the next. But the general idea of keeping in line with the wider industry is a highly valid one.

[Ronnie]

I think they've persisted with it long enough tbh, if NX comes out next year Wii U will have been on the market four years. If they wait much longer no one will buy NX because they'll all be waiting for PS5 etc. They f-ed up with Wii U, let them start from scratch asap. I think the rumoured unified architecture between console and handheld is very exciting and could be a big USP for NX, at a time when gamers would consider picking up a second console.

[Sheikah]

I think they've persisted with it long enough tbh, if NX comes out next year Wii U will have been on the market four years. If they wait much longer no one will buy NX because they'll all be waiting for PS5 etc. They f-ed up with Wii U, let them start from scratch asap. I think the rumoured unified architecture between console and handheld is very exciting and could be a big USP for NX, at a time when gamers would consider picking up a second console.

 

It's not a case of how long the Wii U has been on the market, it's a case of how long the competition has been on the market.

 

The PS4/X1 are fairly new and nobody has the feeling that they need a new system yet. As we saw with the PS4, X360 owners can and did jump ship; we've seen that before with N64 and PS1, Xbox 360 and PS3. Customers will move if they see something better, but usually at the start of the next generation, not halfway through.

 

Nintendo can and should aim for system parity and work with third parties to get their games. Technical parity is a must to be even able to get them games in the long term as well. Releasing consoles roughly around the same time is also important in terms of getting these games throughout the full length of the generation. It's no coincidence that X1 and PS4 released at practically the same time.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Sheikah

[Ronnie]

It's not a case of how long the Wii U has been on the market, it's a case of how long the competition has been on the market.

 

Yes it is, the Wii U will be at least 4 years old by the time NX launches, enough time to satisfy its owners

 

The PS4/X1 are fairly new and nobody has the feeling that they need a new system yet. As we saw with the PS4, X360 owners can and did jump ship; we've seen that before with N64 and PS1, Xbox 360 and PS3. Customers will move if they see something better, but usually at the start of the next generation, not halfway through.

 

PS3 and 360 are interchangeable, so it's easy to jump ship. N64 to PS1 just highlighted how gaming tastes changed away from Nintendo.

 

Nintendo can and should aim for system parity and work with third parties to get their games. Technical parity is a must to be even able to get them games in the long term as well. Releasing consoles roughly around the same time is also important in terms of getting these games throughout the full length of the generation. It's no coincidence that X1 and PS4 released at practically the same time.

 

I agree, but not mid-gen. Mid gen they should get a replacement out, instead of being forced to wait another what, 5 years struggling on with the Wii U, just so they can launch at the same time as the next gen? That would be stupid.

[Sheikah]

Yes it is, the Wii U will be at least 4 years old by the time NX launches, enough time to satisfy its owners

 

 

 

PS3 and 360 are interchangeable, so it's easy to jump ship. N64 to PS1 just highlighted how gaming tastes changed away from Nintendo.

 

 

 

I agree, but not mid-gen. Mid gen they should get a replacement out, instead of being forced to wait another what, 5 years struggling on with the Wii U, just so they can launch at the same time as the next gen? That would be stupid.

Many of the owners aren't satisfied with the Wii U but that's nothing to do with how long it has been out. Also factor in that the Wii U took quite a while to gain traction as it was overpriced and didn't get many of its big selling titles for a while. I'd bet you a lot of Wii U owners don't feel like they've had their console long or got much use out of it. I sure havent.

 

Pleasing the people who don't currently own the Wii U is more important in terms of turning it around. Pleasing the hardcore Wii U adopters is not as important as they will buy the next one regardless, and there's not many of them; not saying they're not important by any means, just saying that your thinking along the lines of 'they can release on day X to satisfy the Wii U customers' is a little off. They need to hold off and reposition their console as a contender, ergo the waiting and technical parity. They need to draw in people who buy the other consoles.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Sheikah

[Ashley]

PS3 and 360 are interchangeable

 

No they're not. There's also sorts of differences:

 

The exclusives (both games and in-game content)

The online structure

The online costs

The customer bonuses (Plus vs the Xbox equivalent I forget the name of)

The media capabilities

The SKUs

The cost

 

They're similar, not interchangable.

 

N64 to PS1 just highlighted how gaming tastes changed away from Nintendo.

 

Did tastes move away from Nintendo or did Nintendo move away from tastes?

 

(it's chicken and egg, but still a point worth raising)

[Kav]

@Sheikah and @Ashley, very well put, exactly my thoughts on each point.

[Ronnie]

No they're not. There's also sorts of differences:

 

The exclusives (both games and in-game content)

The online structure

The online costs

The customer bonuses (Plus vs the Xbox equivalent I forget the name of)

The media capabilities

The SKUs

The cost

 

They're similar, not interchangable.

 

My point was, it's relatively easy to move from Sony to Microsoft. It's a much bigger leap to go from a PS4 to a potential £300 Nintendo console. Especially with the stigma that's undoubtedly there with a lot of people.

 

Pleasing the people who don't currently own the Wii U is more important in terms of turning it around.

 

Please them how? What could Nintendo do to make people buy a Wii U? And don't say Galaxy 3.

 

Pleasing the hardcore Wii U adopters is not as important as they will buy the next one regardless

 

I never said it was important. Personally I've loved my three years with my Wii U. Mario, Pikmin, Smash, Mario Kart, Splatoon and loads of other first party games. Nintendo need to walk the line between salvaging this gen by releasing a new console, but not doing it soon enough that they screw Wii U owners. I think an NX out next autumn, would be a good compromise.

[Mr-Paul]

You say 4 years is enough for the Wii U owners Ronnie - what if someone has just bought one now? They won't be happy that a new console is coming out so soon. People don't expect a console to become obsolete that quickly.

 

As I've said before, I really think they just need to ride out the Wii U until rumblings of a new generation come about. Sure, release a year before the others, like the 360 did, but make sure it's to the standards that developers expect. The Wii U has been a commercial disappointment, for sure, but continue to make great games for it, lower the price and maybe it'll have a relatively healthy, but less than stellar life. I don't think releasing a new console in the next year or two is a very good idea unless it's somehow so amazing and original that it'll capture the imagination of the entire general public like the Wii did. That's a very unlikely scenario, and a massive risk to take.

[Ronnie]

You say 4 years is enough for the Wii U owners Ronnie - what if someone has just bought one now? They won't be happy that a new console is coming out so soon. People don't expect a console to become obsolete that quickly.

 

Then they'll have four years of fantastic games to play on it. Seems like an ideal time to buy one.

 

"Rumblings of next gen" won't happen for easily another 4-5 years. Way too long for the Wii U to limp along barely selling.

[Kounan]

You say 4 years is enough for the Wii U owners Ronnie - what if someone has just bought one now? They won't be happy that a new console is coming out so soon. People don't expect a console to become obsolete that quickly.

 

If they put all the games on sale, hmm......

 

As I've said before, I really think they just need to ride out the Wii U until rumblings of a new generation come about. Sure, release a year before the others, like the 360 did, but make sure it's to the standards that developers expect. The Wii U has been a commercial disappointment, for sure, but continue to make great games for it, lower the price and maybe it'll have a relatively healthy, but less than stellar life. I don't think releasing a new console in the next year or two is a very good idea unless it's somehow so amazing and original that it'll capture the imagination of the entire general public like the Wii did. That's a very unlikely scenario, and a massive risk to take.

 

This could work, because if I have understood it properly, they don't have to many production costs as they have a lot of consoles ready, so if they would release 3-4 of their famous games (and maybe a sequel to some, which should be cheaper to build) they should be able to be profitable from these games, plus the handheld devices are still doing their job.

[gaggle64]

The more I read and think on it, the more I'm convinced the NX will essentially be a portable device with an HDMI out and/or maybe a dock station that will up-rez it to the TV. If even passing resemblance a tradition under-the-TV unit I'll be genuinely shocked.

 

Also, I think Nintendo should make or license some of it's properties for platforms they might actually find an audience including PC and the Xbox/Playstation brands. Metroid could find audiences there but it never will with an audience that bought more copies of DKC Returns than all the 'Primes combined. No point in not leveraging good IP just because it's likely audience went with a different platform they're not even trying to compete with.

[Ronnie]

Also, I think Nintendo should make or license some of it's properties for platforms they might actually find an audience including PC and the Xbox/Playstation brands. Metroid could find audiences there but it never will with an audience that bought more copies of DKC Returns than all the 'Primes combined. No point in not leveraging good IP just because it's likely audience went with a different platform they're not even trying to compete with.

 

Except that would devalue their own consoles even more.

[gaggle64]

Except that would devalue their own consoles even more.

 

It's the choice between a world with a new Metroid game or a world without one. Right now ours is the latter.

[Kounan]

The more I read and think on it, the more I'm convinced the NX will essentially be a portable device with an HDMI out and/or maybe a dock station that will up-rez it to the TV. If even passing resemblance a tradition under-the-TV unit I'll be genuinely shocked.

 

Also, I think Nintendo should make or license some of it's properties for platforms they might actually find an audience including PC and the Xbox/Playstation brands. Metroid could find audiences there but it never will with an audience that bought more copies of DKC Returns than all the 'Primes combined. No point in not leveraging good IP just because it's likely audience went with a different platform they're not even trying to compete with.

 

Actually, that could be a good idea to do it now, make the game for Wii U and port it, at least to PC, but could do it to PS and XBoX, but make a really good game and advertise it.

 

But when the NX comes out, just keep it exclusive and it could be enough to make people buy it just because of that game (or add 2-3 games just so people can see what kind of games that are).

[Ronnie]

It's the choice between a world with a new Metroid game or a world without one. Right now ours is the latter.

 

I agree, I'm just saying that the value of Nintendo hardware would plummet if they start putting their biggest IP on other platforms. Short term gain with a few sales but long term would be a disaster. Unless of course they went all in and gave up hardware completely but that's a different discussion.

[dazzybee]

The Wii u cannot survive the length of the current generation to release their next. Like people have mentioned, that's a long long way away. The options are, release a low powered bargain machin, a hybrid - handheld which plays on the tele to provide a cheap option and hope casuals come back, or gamers buy it as their second device. OR release a home console (and handheld of course) to match 4 and one knowing there's a good 5 years left anyway.

 

It's very risky, but Nintendo have fucked up, whatever they do will be risky. The safest bet is NX being a handheld which works with the tele, I've thought it for ages and as time goes in and becomes more and more obvious this is what Nintendo will do.

 

I do worry about their future as a home console maker, other than just riding it out with this cheaper NX for another 5, 6 years (still releasing Wii u games and the NX will be a portable Wii u pretty much)

[Hero-of-Time]

It's crazy the situation they have gotten themselves into. Despite being very successful for them, I think the Wii has caused the company a lot of damage in the long run.

 

It's caused them to be a generation behind in terms of power, meaning 3rd parties want nothing to do with them.

 

While everyone else were finding their footing with HD games last generation, Nintendo we're learning at the start of this one, due to the Wii being SD.

 

They were relying on the expanded market, that the Wii cultivated, to join this next generation, only for them to leave them for other devices.

 

The other two console makers pushed their online services and evolved them even further with this gen. Nintendo's online presence last generation was bare bones and remains only a tad better this generation.

 

Crazy.

[Fused King]

I also find it quite ironic that today's casual gamer most likely is into Fifa, COD, Battlefield, GTA, Assassin's Creed or some big AAA series on either the XboX or Playstation.

It would seem that both Microsoft and Sony have gained more casuals in the long run than Nintendo ever did with the Wii which was their hope.

Whether or not it's a good thing that casuals crave realism in their games with high-end graphics is debatable...

[somme]

If, around, or by the time a PS5 came out Nintendo released a powerful contender with full third party support and the console infrastructure I've already gotten accustomed to with the PS4 I'd be all over it like aids in the 80s.

 

Price wouldn't matter, to me.

 

I don't think winning back customers is as hard as everyone is making out. Nintendo games are great, I may not have enjoyed the most recent offerings (bar MK8) as much as I have previously but there is a lot of love and respect for Nintendo out there.

[Kav]

It's not just realism and high end graphics though. Some of the CoD and Battlfield games are the best multiplayer games I've ever played. Battlefield being my all-time favourite multiplayer.

The gameplay in those games is great too, you can't write that off... unless you're talking about more recent CoDs as they've lost their shine I feel.

[Mr_Master_X2]

I'm not sure I agree with this. This generation has shown more than ever that a lot of people are quite willing to change sides. You could even look back to the last generation as a good example as well.

 

The PS2 dominated during that generation yet in the next one the 360 took a lot of Sony's sales. Fast forward to this generation and the tables have turned again, with Microsoft now lagging behind Sony.

 

Sure, you will get the crazy people who won't touch anything other than Nintendo/PS/Xbox but the majority of gamers have shown that if you market the product towards them, have a good advertising campaign and a fair price point, you will then have them on your side.

 

I have no doubt in my mind that if Nintendo released a console that was the same as the others, got all the same 3rd party support and had the same kind of online setups then they would clean house. The have one thing that the others don't and that's a history of well known IPs at their disposal. Having those, as well as the same 3rd party support as the others, would kill a lot of the need to have another console.

 

 

 

This is all I want and I think it's a very simple request. With a robust online system, Nintendo's own games could REALLY shine through and give many games some legs.

 

No doubt they could take some sales away (those that just buy Sony/Microsoft for the multi-plats but are true Nintendo fans), as I said, but the anti-Nintendo sentiment and fanboys that have had the same console 3-4 gens in a row now to follow their consoles games series is just firmly entrenched now. PS2 was a different world ago.

 

No one wants them to sell it at a big loss. If they release the most powerful console they can for around £250, I'm happy. It's worth remembering that Gamecube and N64 were sold for tiny losses at various times in their respective lifespans..

 

I hope they move away from the Wii U and 3DS model of selling a console at a big loss, it's just not needed. If the 'gimmick' is making the console financially unviable, it's not worth it.

 

Of course we don't, but if they tried matching the specs

of the other two they'd have to incur losses if they wanted to sell at a competitive price. It'd hurt them more, too, because they don't have other departments profit to prop them up like the others. It might "just" be feasible if component prices are down enough, but it still leaves them at the point where most have already made their "multiplat console of choice" this gen, and they chose the ones that aren't Nintendo...because they currently don't offer their multiplat needs.