Diversity & Colour in This Generation

[Ronnie]

I see.

 

Thank god Nintendo's highly praised games turned the Wii U's situation around, then.

 

I said we're still waiting for a great PS4 exclusive. Then mentioned the Order wasn't it, that's all.

 

Note from Ashley

 

This thread has been ripped from the Wii U General Thread. It's kind of a messy rip as the conversations kind of merged but essentially this is a conversation about diversity (in terms of game genres) on each console in this generation.

 

Also been a lot of conversation about colours.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Ashley

[somme]

It absolutely is selling because of the name. People bought a PS4 because of the brand,

 

What a lovely sweeping statement. I bought a PS4 in June having not owned a non-Nintendo console since the Mega Drive. I didn't buy it because of the brand - I bought it because it actually had games I wanted to play on it. And I've found it's "pathetic" library far more enjoyable than the Wii U's.

Edited February 24, 2015 by somme

[Sheikah]

Ah, back to 'exclusives'. The same old shit, irrelevant argument.

[Serebii]

Nothing turned the Wii around, the thing flew of the shelves.

 

@Serebii, they'd make the money back through game sales.

 

Like MS have made their money back with the Xbox, 360 and Xbox One? Like the 3DS made its money back? Like the PS3 made its money back?

 

Yeah no. It doesn't work like that.

[drahkon]

I said we're still waiting for a great PS4 exclusive.

 

"We". I - and many others - certainly have played great PS4 exclusives.

 

But anyway. This topic has been discussed at length.

[Kav]

Like MS have made their money back with the Xbox, 360 and Xbox One? Like the 3DS made its money back? Like the PS3 made its money back?

 

Yeah no. It doesn't work like that.

 

When it launched they stated themselves that they needed to sell just one game to make their money back on it.

Drop it by £100 and all they need do is sell between three & four games and they're making their money back. That's even if we pretended it costed as much to produce!

 

Yeah, they'd make their money back and more.

[dazzybee]

I really don't think the ps4 is selling opn the amd of the software. In fact it shows very much how much image and marketing have to play on such things. It's selling on doing things very very well, developing their services and consistency. If they didn't make these changes with the PS3 when it was doing badly it woudnt be in this position. I think coupled with xbox ones issues before during launch gave consumer confidence to ps4.

 

As for hit titles, well... Ps4 being successful for other reasons doesn't mean another company can't be successful with a silver bullet,that's a wired argument, just because one thing is true, doesn't mean the other is false, they can both be true,

 

However, after smash,mario kart etc I really don't think there is any chance of a silver bullet for Nintendo. POSSIBLY a mmo pokemon.but even that plays to a specific market, admittedly a huge market.

 

I think Nintendo need to do what sony did when they were at their low. Develop their services into what the industry and gamers want, make the best games possible and just build consumer confidence - that's improving dramatically their online services, really developing their social services, the games are awesome so that won't be a problem, but keep developing indie and 3rd party relationships as much as possible for now,and ultimately make people feel really positive about Nintendo ready for the next generation.

[Clownferret]

Sell 100 consoles @ £1 profit = +£100

Sell 200 consoles @ 50p loss = -£100

 

Nintendo are not in a position to show any further losses and have to keep selling Wii U at a profit.

[Serebii]

When it launched they stated themselves that they needed to sell just one game to make their money back on it.

Drop it by £100 and all they need do is sell between three & four games and they're making their money back. That's even if we pretended it costed as much to produce!

 

Yeah, they'd make their money back and more.

If it's that simple, then why did Sony haemorrhage money in the PS3 era? Why is the MS Gaming Division still ridiculously in the red despite success last gen?

[lostmario]

Not sure what the PS4's pathetic library of games has to do with anything.

 

 

I'm a Nintendo fanboy too but come on!

 

Nothing can save the Wii U now, its dead to most gamers.

 

[Goron_3]

The PS4 is selling because of the brand, not the games.

 

Obviously Nintendo weren't banking on one piece of software from the very beginning. Of course that would have been a flawed strategy. The Wii U is a great console with great games, all Iwata is saying is that one piece of software can build enough hype for it to (deservedly) start selling.

 

Oh dear, Ronnie. This is low..real low.

 

I love how people conveniently forget that the PS4 has 30% more titles rated at 75% (going by Metacritic) compared to the Wii U, despite coming out 12 months later.

 

The PS4 has a reputation based on software, because it actually GETS software.

[Ronnie]

I love how people conveniently forget that the PS4 has 30% more titles rated at 75% (going by Metacritic) compared to the Wii U, despite coming out 12 months later.

 

And yet not a single exclusive in the top 10 on metacritic, a top 10 which includes GTA V (last gen), Last of Us (last gen), Rayman Legends, Fez, Minecraft and Guacamelee.

 

The PS4 might get more games, but the Wii U has the better AAA's.

[Fierce_LiNk]

And yet not a single exclusive in the top 10 on metacritic, a top 10 which includes GTA V (last gen), Last of Us (last gen), Rayman Legends, Fez, Minecraft and Guacamelee.

 

The PS4 might get more games, but the Wii U has the better AAA's.

 

What's the deal with you and exclusives?

GTAV, The Last of US and Tomb Raider are absolutely stunning games. I'm utterly grateful that I've had the chance to play them. Why didn't GTAV and Tomb Raider appear on the WiiU, even the old last gen versions, hmm?

 

I'd also greatly disagree with the whole better AAAs argument. We're going to have vastly different interpretations over what triple A actually means, since you have discredited certain genres in the past (FPS). I'm looking at what we've got for the WiiU in our place and I'm comparing it with what I've amassed on the PS4 and I'd argue that the latter has served me better.

[Sheikah]

And yet not a single exclusive in the top 10 on metacritic, a top 10 which includes GTA V (last gen), Last of Us (last gen), Rayman Legends, Fez, Minecraft and Guacamelee.

 

The PS4 might get more games, but the Wii U has the better AAA's.

 

You're so full of it. How you can even dare to argue quality of games when you don't have a PS4, and seemingly never will, is beyond me. You're literally reading out numbers to argue with people who have played the very games you're knocking.

 

Many of the most fun games release on PS4. Whether they also release on PC and Xbone is of no concern to me; when I play a game, I judge it for what it is, not whether I know it's being released anywhere else.

 

The funny thing is, there's so much bullshit on Nintendo's consoles right now, even though a lot of their games score highly. They're the kind of safe plays that are bound to score well because they're basically polished versions of the same game they've released loads of times before. Mario Kart has been distilled into a formula, as has Smash, as has their New Super Mario Land series. Heck, even Pikmin 3 is just a recycling of the same concept. You're no doubt going to accuse other consoles for having similar titles, but that's not really the point. You're making an argument that Nintendo is some reservoir of quality, whereas I'm arguing that so much of what they represent these days, bar a couple of exceptions, feels largely quite stale to me. It does not excite me anywhere near as much as the other consoles.

 

Games that have held my attention, games that feel fresh to me because they present new ideas or ways to play, often score lower. Games like Destiny, for instance, have held the attention of so many people here for so very long. With Destiny came a new level of social gaming and cooperation, like nothing us mostly console gamers had ever experienced before. To me, that was like Demon's Souls last gen - a very new feeling concept. Games like Destiny score lower because they get stuff wrong, but then you really kind of expect that from games doing something new, with several new mechanics (and an economy) in play, as opposed to games that have been perfected long ago and only further improved upon in minor ways (e.g. antigravity in Mario Kart).

 

What's the deal with you and exclusives?

GTAV, The Last of US and Tomb Raider are absolutely stunning games.

 

Because someone with that kind of mindset has to essentially shape an argument out of whatever they can.

 

If he actually looked at the sheer number of great titles that came/are coming to PS4, he wouldn't be able to make a comparison that would cast the Wii U in a favourable light. By narrowing down his criteria to 'just exclusives' he is able to assemble a makeshift argument.

[Kav]

@Sheikah whereas I get where you're coming from saying how MK, Smash and Pikmin feel stale to you, that doesn't mean they feel stale to others.

 

To me they still feel fresh, even when compared to a lot of other games on the market. It's because between the releases of them there aren't many other games on the market that feel similar to them. So by the time they come around they feel fresh again. Pikmin epsecially, it felt like a breath of fresh air to me.

 

Destiny on the other hand didn't feel fresh in the slightest. It feels like Halo, which has had a number of releases between the last two Pikmin games. Yes, the social element made the game much more than it was, but this isn't new. Many of us here had that experience with games like Monster Hunter.

 

So to me, Pikmin felt more fresh than Batman, Assassin's Creed, Infamous, Uncharted, Last of Us, Destiny etc (the list does go on - all still good games, don't get me wrong) because these have all had either multiple iterations or they play similarly to other games on the market.

 

I'll not put Mario in there as there have been many platformers and they do feel similar. Except for the Galaxy games, they are God-level games and actually felt very fresh.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Kav

[Sheikah]

For people like me who remember really well what they did in games, it's hard to feel they're anything but stale.

 

I mean, take the new Smash. You load up the game, probably pick your favourite character, then proceed to use the same moves against your friend who is likely also using the same character. You may try become familiar with a new character, but that's usually where the freshness ends. And let's be honest, we typically fall back to our favourites. For me, there's just not enough reason to be excited by this series anymore. Melee got the formula down, Brawl didn't give you much more reason to play (online particularly was broken), and this certainly didn't refresh the series. For me, this series is done. I'm going through the same motions, trying to recapture what was there maybe 12-13 years ago when melee hit, but it's never going to happen. It's a game that I have played and enjoyed plenty. It's just not doing it anymore.

 

Re: Destiny, No other game on consoles has done the raid experience like Destiny, making it so tightly coordinated, nor have they made the game so damn addictive for so many. The social aspect is also done crazily well because it's always online, so you can hop into people's games quickly and help them with quests (always online is also great to prevent cheating). I don't doubt you when you say you found it boring, because it's not for everyone and can only last so long before getting boring, and admittedly content is a bit thin on the ground at the moment - essentially it has run out of new stuff to do (but to be honest what game doesn't). But what it is is something different to most of the games out there. You won't find an always online console game doing what is doing. It actually feels little like Halo to me - in Halo there is no loot, no supers, no classes, and meanwhile in Destiny there is little story unlike Halo. In Halo it's pretty standard FPS gaming. The crucible is about where the similarities end, as well as the tight/polished combat. But in Halo, for instance, I can't just whip out a golden gun and immediately kill 3-4 people. Or revive myself in a team game, or bring in my own customised loot. I can't do a raid in Halo either. Destiny borders fantasy, since you down people with supers so nonchalantly. It feels very different to me, and to be honest I was really very bored of Halo. If we acknowledge that certain things will always appear again in games (e.g. shooting enemies, jumping on enemies), we look to new and differentiating elements to get freshness. For me, Destiny has those.

 

What I'll say is that no doubt if they condensed what Destiny is doing into a formula, and were still releasing that game in 15 years, I'd no doubt be bored of it. Just right here, right now, I'm glad that they've gone with a different formula rather than it just be a direct sequel to another FPS with the usual old approach.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Sheikah

[Goron_3]

And yet not a single exclusive in the top 10 on metacritic, a top 10 which includes GTA V (last gen), Last of Us (last gen), Rayman Legends, Fez, Minecraft and Guacamelee.

 

The PS4 might get more games, but the Wii U has the better AAA's.

 

Remind me of how the Wii U's first year was? It had no AAA's and pretty much nothing that appealed to 90% of Western gamers.

 

The latter is probably still true for the console now, unfortunately.

[Kav]

@Sheikah I remember very well what I did in games. It's not that I don't.

 

I agree that Destiny does different things to Halo, but the actual gameplay itself is vastly similar. The character movement, control etc. this is what I mean by it feeling like Halo.

It's like The Last of Us, to me it didn't feel new because it felt incredibly similar to Uncharted in this same respect. Sure, there are new characters and a new story, but to control and actually play the game it felt vastly similar.

This is how I mean feeling similar. There isn't a lot on the market that feels similar in this respect to Pikmin and Smash.

 

I guess for me, Smash always feels fresh as I usually select random on the character select screen.

 

In the end, I'm not disputing what you feel, just saying that it differs from person to person.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Kav

[Zechs Merquise]

The PS4 got the two most crucial pieces of the strategy right - marketing and price.

 

The PS4 launched at a great price point and undercut the competition. It made it the most affordable of the options on the market.

 

The PS4 also won the marketing war - by a long way. Nintendo's marketing of the Wii U ranged from poor to non-existant, especially if you remember the huge push the Wii and DS had with ads non-stop and in prime time spots.

 

Further to this the XBO experienced some terrible PR gaffs pre-release - the used games mess, the need for the Kinect, the inflated price point and the ridiculous 'cloud processing' claims. Microsoft shot themselves in the foot time and again before the XBO was released and actually made things far more difficult for themselves. Sony just took advantage of the situation and came out as the people's champion.

 

If the current batch of consoles were judged on their console exclusives and if all gamers cared about was that, Nintendo would be in a far better position. But we all know that isn't the case. If it was the GC would have smashed the competition, but it didn't.

 

The Wii U has far better system exclusives than the PS4. With the exception of the Last of Us slightly graphically improved version, games like Driveclub, Knack, Killzone and The Order 1886 have all fallen short of being quality titles that would sell systems.

 

But Sony have made their console the most consumer friendly, visible and at the best price - and it paid off.

[Sheikah]

When you think about it, there's a lot of extra customisation to Destiny that isn't there in Halo to make it feel quite different. I agree there is some trademark Bungie polish that makes the base character move in a weighty sort of way. But then when you look at the classes and perks, it feels quite a bit different.

 

Warlocks for instance, if you double tap X you go flying into the sky, which is something you don't do in Halo. It changes how you can approach the enemy. You can equip a perk that lets you freeze in mid air while shooting, so you can gun people from above. Then there's the ability to melee and get a temporary shield, crouch or melee to go invisible, shoulder charge with a Titan, etc. I can be a bladedancer and mass kill several people at once. I don't deny that it's an FPS, but if you dig just a little deeper there are many things it does different to Halo. It's not reinventing the FPS wheel, but for me it's doing a lot more new than, say, Smash, which feels a lot like the same old to me.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Sheikah

[Goron_3]

The PS4 got the two most crucial pieces of the strategy right - marketing and price.

 

The PS4 launched at a great price point and undercut the competition. It made it the most affordable of the options on the market.

 

The PS4 also won the marketing war - by a long way. Nintendo's marketing of the Wii U ranged from poor to non-existant, especially if you remember the huge push the Wii and DS had with ads non-stop and in prime time spots.

 

Further to this the XBO experienced some terrible PR gaffs pre-release - the used games mess, the need for the Kinect, the inflated price point and the ridiculous 'cloud processing' claims. Microsoft shot themselves in the foot time and again before the XBO was released and actually made things far more difficult for themselves. Sony just took advantage of the situation and came out as the people's champion.

 

If the current batch of consoles were judged on their console exclusives and if all gamers cared about was that, Nintendo would be in a far better position. But we all know that isn't the case. If it was the GC would have smashed the competition, but it didn't.

 

The Wii U has far better system exclusives than the PS4. With the exception of the Last of Us slightly graphically improved version, games like Driveclub, Knack, Killzone and The Order 1886 have all fallen short of being quality titles that would sell systems.

 

But Sony have made their console the most consumer friendly, visible and at the best price - and it paid off.

 

If you compare the PS4 and Wii U at the same point in their lifespans, the Wii U was not much better (I'd say it was worse but that's just me). Comparing Generation 2 games Wii U games to Gen I PS4 games is slightly unfair.

 

The price thing fascinates me. Sony got the price MASSIVELY wrong with the PS3 yet it outsold the 360 every year from its launch, despite weaker than expected sales in the US. That really is a testament to how strong their brand is.

[Kav]

@Sheikah, I know what Destiny is like and I know the differences to it and Halo... I've put hundreds of hours in both. It's still feels similar. I'm not saying they're identical, just very similar. Which is why it feels less fresh to me than the others. Edited February 25, 2015 by Kav

[Sheikah]

If you compare the PS4 and Wii U at the same point in their lifespans, the Wii U was not much better (I'd say it was worse but that's just me). Comparing Generation 2 games Wii U games to Gen I PS4 games is slightly unfair.

 

The price thing fascinates me. Sony got the price MASSIVELY wrong with the PS3 yet it outsold the 360 every year from its launch, despite weaker than expected sales in the US. That really is a testament to how strong their brand is.

 

If you compared at the same point, PS4 would have Bloodborne, Persona 5 and Uncharted 4. Of course, can't compare them as they're not out yet, but nor should we compare them like they are being now either.

 

I also think we should compare games available on each system that aren't available on the other system. Because that's a differentiating factor - if I can buy a game I want on one of those consoles, but not the other, that's a reason to get that console, isn't it?

[Ronnie]

Remind me of how the Wii U's first year was?

 

NintendoLand, Mario U, Lego City, Rayman Legends, Pikmin 3, Wonderful 101, Wind Waker HD and Mario 3D World.

[Goron_3]

NintendoLand, Mario U, Lego City, Rayman Legends, Pikmin 3, Wonderful 101, Wind Waker HD and Mario 3D World.

 

Case closed. You've pretty much proved my point.

 

Also, I hope people realise how great Legends was...Best platformer on Wii U.