Shirtstorm

[Zechs Merquise]

I think a quote I found recently that is slightly related puts it a more direct way:

"Most men fear getting laughed at or humiliated by a romantic prospect while most women fear rape and death".

 

I would love to see where that quote comes from. I think the kind of statement that "most" women fear rape and death from a romantic prospect is utter hyperbole and the kind of feminist garbage that leads to kind of storm in a teacup that is 'shirtstorm'.

 

I have a lot of female friends, many of whom are on the dating scene. Their fears are exactly the same as that of my male friends. They joke about the guy looking different to what he does in the pictures they have seen, they worry about whether they are getting too dressed up for a first meet or not dressed up enough and they are generally nervous that it will be awkward meeting a new person for the first time.

 

To suggest that "most" women have "rape and death" as their primary fear when going on a date is ludicrous and perpetuated by people pushing an extreme agenda.

 

It also plays along with the other ludicrous notion of "rape culture", where somehow all men are part of a secret club that despises women and approves of rape. In fact nothing could be further from the truth.

 

From a very young age men are taught that rapists (and paedophiles) are the lowest of the low. Being a rapist doesn't make you some form of male folk hero, but a total scumbag. Even in prisons sex offenders and rapists are attacked and beaten. Rapists are outcasts even amongst the lowest levels of society.

 

Here are some other quotes from the women perpetuating this nonsense:

 

 

They don't seem pretty hate filled and like they're pushing an agenda...

 

Images such as on this man's shirt simply cannot be sexist - they are merely depictions of humans. Female, yes, but as I say, gender shouldn't matter. Nowadays Marvel Comics can't draw Spider-Woman without campaigns against it. Computer game designers can't create female characters without complaints of "sexualisation" (as if that's a bad thing) and "objectification".

 

Make no mistake, feminists are attacking this subject as a whole and it's something we really, seriously shouldn't let them get away with. Do we want a world where you can't draw or wear what you like? If we don't stand up to them, that's where we're going.

 

You make a very good point about the hypocrisy of the feminist movement. The Spider-Woman issue is a perfect example.

 

 

Spider-Man has been drawn in the same pose, but no outrage?

 

The whole issue of comic book females being drawn in an unrealistic manner is ludicrous. They are fantasy characters, and just like their male counterparts they have amazing bodies.

 

Superman, He-Man, Thor - hell even Spider-Man (who is meant to be a nerd) have amazing and unrealistic bodies that would literally mean spending a lifetime in the gym for a male to emulate them (not to mention serious steroid abuse).

 

Comics have always represented the human form in an unrealistic way. Yet now the feminists attack it, which is just a part of their larger agenda and general "outrage" at everything.

 

Personally, I think some of the women who have a problem with it are jealous because they don't look like that. There, I said it.

 

Annnnnd... you hit the nail on the head! See picture above for the kind of bile that jealousy and hatred leads to...

Edited November 21, 2014 by Zechs Merquise

[Ashley]

I would love to see where that quote comes from. I think the kind of statement that "most" women fear rape and death from a romantic prospect is utter hyperbole and the kind of feminist garbage that leads to kind of storm in a teacup that is 'shirtstorm'.

 

It's from Gavin de Becker's book The Gift of Fear and is a furthering of de Becker's work on MOSAIC Threat Assessment that is used by the Supreme Court so I think maybe it has some validity.

[Agent Gibbs]

 

 

 

 

Those can't be real quotes! can they? that is the worst sort of hatred and bigotry on par with KKK, white supremacists etc just on that opposite end of the political spectrum

 

If those views are real they are completely and utterly contrary to equality which is true feminism's aim! if these woman (who i've never heard of) are seen as role models, icons, head of the modern feminist movement then that is very very worrying and really does confirm the fear i mentioned before that some "feminists" (can't really call them that) don't want equality they want to make men subservient and oppressed out of some sort of misguided hatred/revenge spiral...

 

 

thankfully i can't see them being anything mainstream or they'd be on more in the media....right?

[bob]

Every side has its arseholes. Those are just the most extreme.

 

Most feminists are perfectly reasonable.

[Agent Gibbs]

Every side has its arseholes. Those are just the most extreme.

 

Most feminists are perfectly reasonable.

 

That is certainly true, out of all these situations it certainly seems like a vocal minority that are string up trouble and getting airtime, i've yet to find anyone in real life with these sorts of views or even close to them

[Grazza]

Dumb moment: Is there a word you can use to say you're all for equality? Like feminist is used for women to have the same rights as men and stuff? I'm one of them.

 

Egalitarian.

 

Feminists say they're in favour of equality, but what they really mean is equality from the viewpoint that women are discriminated against and men aren't.

 

I agree with them on #freethenipple (a true way women are still discriminated against) and attacks on cultural barbarism such as genital mutilation. And of course, against rape and groping. But most of this stuff is not gender specific.

[Jonnas]

I would love to see where that quote comes from. I think the kind of statement that "most" women fear rape and death from a romantic prospect is utter hyperbole and the kind of feminist garbage that leads to kind of storm in a teacup that is 'shirtstorm'.

 

[...]

 

To suggest that "most" women have "rape and death" as their primary fear when going on a date is ludicrous and perpetuated by people pushing an extreme agenda.

 

While "Rape and Death" is hyperbole, it isn't that far from the truth. Many women do have to deal with harassment daily, some of which physical.

 

And mind you, the original quotes aren't referring to when the date is set with someone you've agreed with beforehand (not even online). They're mostly referring to when you first meet someone. I know that when a random burly dude comes up to me on the street and says something, my immediate thoughts are that he might be a robber, or wanting to cause trouble with any skinny dude he meets.

 

Considering women can have larger men approaching them every day, that sort of fear is constant. Even knowing that some dude is glaring at you while you're shopping is creepy.

 

It also plays along with the other ludicrous notion of "rape culture", where somehow all men are part of a secret club that despises women and approves of rape. In fact nothing could be further from the truth.

 

How ironic that you refer to feminists as an incredibly organized movement with homogeneous ideals, while exposing the fallacy at the same time.

 

From a very young age men are taught that rapists (and paedophiles) are the lowest of the low. Being a rapist doesn't make you some form of male folk hero, but a total scumbag. Even in prisons sex offenders and rapists are attacked and beaten. Rapists are outcasts even amongst the lowest levels of society.

 

Here are some other quotes from the women perpetuating this nonsense:

 

[Huge picture]

 

They don't seem pretty hate filled and like they're pushing an agenda...

 

Men don't rape for social reasons. And yet, rapists exist, and can have friends in high places that'll do their best to sweep that under the rug (see: Catholic church and the paedophilia accusations; the recent Steubenville rape case)

 

No, most men don't rape. But it only takes a couple of creeps to scare a girl. You know, like how it only takes 6 self-proclaimed feminists to make misandrist comments, but that's enough to convince plenty of men that they're making a big fuss over nothing (when, in fact, plenty of good points about harassment are still made, like that video of "10 hours in New York", or that French short "

").

 

You make a very good point about the hypocrisy of the feminist movement. The Spider-Woman issue is a perfect example.

 

[spider-Picture]

 

Spider-Man has been drawn in the same pose, but no outrage?

 

The whole issue of comic book females being drawn in an unrealistic manner is ludicrous. They are fantasy characters, and just like their male counterparts they have amazing bodies.

 

Both drawings were made by men, weren't they? Something like He-man was supposed to please boys, not girls. Just saying, I don't think that sort of comparison is 1:1 to begin with.

[Grazza]

Men don't rape for social reasons. And yet, rapists exist, and can have friends in high places that'll do their best to sweep that under the rug (see: Catholic church and the paedophilia accusations; the recent Steubenville rape case)

 

Here, the problem is corruption and paedophilia - those with power abusing it. Many of the victims are male and most men would absolutely despise the perpetrators.

 

No, most men don't rape. But it only takes a couple of creeps to scare a girl. You know, like how it only takes 6 self-proclaimed feminists to make misandrist comments, but that's enough to convince plenty of men that they're making a big fuss over nothing (when, in fact, plenty of good points about harassment are still made, like that video of "10 hours in New York", or that French short "

").

 

Is that something "men" do, though, or just low class people? Young women have shouted sexual things and me many, many times. Rather than thinking they were being sexist, I just thought they wanted to shout something sexual. Bad manners, yes, and I wouldn't shout at anyone else in the street, but I didn't feel offended.

 

Both drawings were made by men, weren't they? Something like He-man was supposed to please boys, not girls. Just saying, I don't think that sort of comparison is 1:1 to begin with.

 

I think this comes back to the Puritanism - being against something because it might give someone a thrill, rather than judging it objectively on what it is. Yes, He-Man, The Hulk etc may well be created by men, and won't give a (sexual) thrill to heterosexual men, but that shouldn't matter.

[Jonnas]

Here, the problem is corruption and paedophilia - those with power abusing it. Many of the victims are male and most men would absolutely despise the perpetrators.

 

You're correct on that. My main point was that it doesn't need to be socially acceptable to happen.

 

Verbal harassment, however, is something very few men pay attention to.

 

Is that something "men" do, though, or just low class people? Young women have shouted sexual things and me many, many times. Rather than thinking they were being sexist, I just thought they wanted to shout something sexual. Bad manners, yes, and I wouldn't shout at anyone else in the street, but I didn't feel offended.

 

On one hand, you may have a point about only crass people being behind such comments (though thinking of them as "low-class" may encourage another type of discrimination, but that's not here nor there)

 

On the other hand, I disagree with people making such comments "just to shout something sexual". And I'm guessing a lot of women on the receiving end aren't going to think of it that lightly. After all, if it was a bigger man shouting something at you out of nowhere, you'd be intimidated, at the very least, right?

 

I think this comes back to the Puritanism - being against something because it might give someone a thrill, rather than judging it objectively on what it is. Yes, He-Man, The Hulk etc may well be created by men, and won't give a (sexual) thrill to heterosexual men, but that shouldn't matter.

 

They weren't designed to give a thrill to heterosexual women, either (and they likely don't), which was my main point.

[MoogleViper]

Is that something "men" do, though, or just low class people?

 

What does class have to do with anything? There's no evidence that one social class commit sexual assault more than any other. In fact one of the most common places for a woman to be sexually assaulted is in college/university.

[Ashley]

Types of harassment may vary by class (street harassment might be committed more by men of lower socioeconomic classes while workplace harassment by higher) but it is by no means limited to just lower class males.

 

I need to respond to many other points on this when I'm not on my tablet...

[pratty]

Just as easily as someone could say his shirt was objectifying women, you could also argue he was celebrating women and the female form.

 

Here's my issue with the idea of 'objectifying', if I look at an image of a women whether it's sexy or not, I can't help but 'objectify' them because it's only an image. Yes I'm sure the model has a personality too and is infact a person, but if all I have is an image of them how am I supposed to admire anything other than their form, and why is it wrong if I do?

 

To say if I enjoy the image of a women that means I subsequently regard all women as mere objects is a huge, unsubstantiated and generalised presumption, ironic coming from feminists.

 

It's refreshing to see so many stick up for the guy here. I think there is a culture of fear surrounding pollitical correctness these days, where the safest option is to condemn somebody or something first, then wait for the prevailing concensus as to whether it really was sexist or whatever, that way even if you're wrong at least people know you don't condone descrimination, even if you're not really sure what it is.

Edited November 23, 2014 by pratty

[MoogleViper]

Always enjoy the Factual Feminist's videos. Always so measured and logical in her approached.

 

[Helmsly]

Always enjoy the Factual Feminist's videos. Always so measured and logical in her approached.

 

 

came here to post this video, her videos are so level headed and i find it reassuring to see a feminist view point that isn't hysterical and out to get someone.