Virtual Reality

[Dog-amoto]

Resident Evil 4 is amazing in VR. It’s like playing it for the first time again. There are the odd annoyances - the boss battle on the Lake for one, but it’s absolutely superb. 

[V. Amoleo]

I bought myself a Meta Quest 2 for Christmas.  I tell you I am blown away almost as much as the first time I tried VR.  The lack of a tether while still having fairly nice looking games is great.

For a bit of perspective here are the VR headsets that I own:  HTC Vive, PSVR (Ver 1 & 2, Camera Ver 1 & 2, PS4 & PS4 Pro & PS5), Valve Index and now the Meta Quest 2.

When I first got the Vive it was mind blowing but the screen door effect became more and more noticable over time.  The PSVR has never impressed me, I can never get the tracking to work properly, I've tried pretty much every combination of PSVR devices and it's been in two houses now.  I still can not get the tracking to be as spot on as I feel it needs to be.  Visuals are nice but, again I have a Vive so my PC could push better visuals.  I then bought the Index as my new pro VR headset and it is beautiful.  The controllers are awesome too.  But I'm still yet to install the lighthouses in my spare room so it's a faff to use.  Initially I was reluctant to buy a Quest 2 because I expected the tracking to be off like the PSVR and the visuals to be more Google Cardboard than anything else.  But I saw some reviews of Resident Evil 4 VR and I couldn't say brush it off anymore.  Published by Oculus so it's an exclusive, made by some of the guys behind Metroid Prime.  The ease of use is great, headset on and away I go playing.  The tracking is impecable.  Not quite lighthouse tracking but close enough that I really don't care.  I'm still yet to play RE4VR but everything else I've tried is great.

My only negative about the Quest 2 is that it all seems a bit RyanAir.  The better headstrap is another £50.  Another two hours play time is £50.  Rechargable AA batteries for the controllers is another £10 say.  The official Link Cable to use the Quest 2 on PC is £90 and requires a USB-C port.  I don't have any of these (except the AA batteries) and I don't feel like I need them but it's worth mentioning the extras.

[ArtMediocre]

Congrats on the new facebook device, @V. Amoleo (Can't get myself to call them Meta yet)  Glad to hear you're enjoying it. As a user of the HP Reverb G2, I can tell you that inside-out tracking is by far superior to PSVR, and really impressive without needing to install external sensors. Are you going to play it mainly as a standalone device, or with a link cable or with air link?

I'm considering getting one myself one day, if there's nothing new and exciting coming in the next year or so, just to be able to play VR without cables. It should improve the experience and immersion by quite a lot, and the screens should be pretty good. I really want to wait until we get the micro LED display headsets with air link though, as I wouldn't be relying on Facebook, and they would (hopefully) improve both tracking and fullbody tracking in future headsets. But we'll see. 

Enjoy your Quest 2, and if you haven't gotten it yet, I can't recommend Blade And Sorcery (for Steam, B&S: Nomad for quest standalone) enough Great with mods!

[V. Amoleo]

On 30/12/2021 at 12:59 PM, ArtMediocre said:

Congrats on the new facebook device, @V. Amoleo (Can't get myself to call them Meta yet)  

I think I keep trying to kid myself by not calling it Facebook   I do only have a Facebook to use this device though so what information they want to hoover up from me should be failry minimal.

On 30/12/2021 at 12:59 PM, ArtMediocre said:

Glad to hear you're enjoying it. As a user of the HP Reverb G2, I can tell you that inside-out tracking is by far superior to PSVR, and really impressive without needing to install external sensors. Are you going to play it mainly as a standalone device, or with a link cable or with air link?

So the original plan was to just use it as a standalone device and use the Valve Index on the PC.  I have tried it with a Rift Link and AirLink.  Rift Link worked with the USB-C 2.0 cable that came with the device though it was very short, but it ONLY worked in the single USB-C 3.1 port on my PC.  It doesn't make a huge amount of sense when it's a USB 2.0 cable but I couldn't get USB-C to USB-A converters to work in any of the other ports.  Which is a shame because that's on the back of the machine and the included cable is only about a metre.  AirLink was more trouble, even sitting right next to the WiFi access point with the PC wired into it.  It just wasn't good enough at the moment but it's definitely getting there.

My experience with Rift Link now has me thinking that I might use the Quest 2 for sitting experience PC VR games.  Plug a single cable in and away I go.  This might change when I have the spare room setup for the Index, but for now the only real difference I could feel was a slightly more goggle-like view.  No worse than my HTC Vive was though.  Also means I can play Rift exclusives now without ReVive.

On 30/12/2021 at 12:59 PM, ArtMediocre said:

I'm considering getting one myself one day, if there's nothing new and exciting coming in the next year or so, just to be able to play VR without cables. It should improve the experience and immersion by quite a lot, and the screens should be pretty good. I really want to wait until we get the micro LED display headsets with air link though, as I wouldn't be relying on Facebook, and they would (hopefully) improve both tracking and fullbody tracking in future headsets. But we'll see.

With VR being new there's always something exciting on the horizon but, like I mentioned in my original post, the wireless nature of the Quest 2 (combined with the good performance, nice controllers and acceptable visuals) felt as "Wow" as the first time I put on the HTC Vive headset back in 2016.  If your worry about Facebook is the privacy aspect you can always create a new account so that it's only used on the Quest... but they still have your location data, cameras and microphones so that's never fully mitigatable.  But enough that I feel more comfortable about having it in my home.  If your worry is how long they support it for, that's anybody's guess.  The Quest (2019), the Rift (2016), Rift S (2019) and Go (2018) have all been dropped in favour of the Quest 2.  From a business point of view it makes sense because the Quest 2 is basically the combination of all those products but from a consumer point of view not so much.

On 30/12/2021 at 12:59 PM, ArtMediocre said:

Enjoy your Quest 2, and if you haven't gotten it yet, I can't recommend Blade And Sorcery (for Steam, B&S: Nomad for quest standalone) enough Great with mods!

Thanks for the recommendation!  Turns out I don't already have this on Steam, so will have to give a think about which platform I'd want to play it on.

[Julius]

Some PSVR 2 news coming out of CES:

Quote

Happy New Year everyone. 

It is my great pleasure to start off 2022 with news on our next generation virtual reality system for the PS5 console, starting with the official name: PlayStation VR2, and our new VR controller, PlayStation VR2 Sense controller.

PlayStation VR2 takes VR gaming to a whole new level, enabling a greater sense of presence and allowing players to escape into game worlds like never before. With the headset on and controllers in hand, players will feel a heightened range of sensations unlike any other – thanks to the creativity of the game worlds being built by our world class developers, and the latest technology incorporated into the hardware.

Building upon our innovations from PS5, PlayStation VR2 adds a true next-gen experience with high-fidelity visuals, new sensory features, and enhanced tracking – along with a simplified single-cord setup. 

Visual Fidelity: For a high-fidelity visual experience, PS VR2 offers 4K HDR, 110-degree field of view, and foveated rendering. With an OLED display, players can expect a display resolution of 2000×2040 per eye and smooth frame rates of 90/120Hz.
Headset-based Controller Tracking: With inside-out tracking, PS VR2 tracks you and your controller through integrated cameras embedded in the VR headset. Your movements and the direction you look at are reflected in-game without the need for an external camera.
New Sensory Features: PS VR2 Sense Technology combines eye tracking, headset feedback, 3D Audio, and the innovative PS VR2 Sense controller to create an incredibly deep feeling of immersion. Headset feedback is a new sensory feature that amplifies the sensations of in-game actions from the player. It’s created by a single built-in motor with vibrations that add an intelligent tactile element, bringing players closer to the gameplay experience. For example, gamers can feel a character’s elevated pulse during tense moments, the rush of objects passing close to the character’s head, or the thrust of a vehicle as the character speeds forward. Additionally, PS5’s Tempest 3D AudioTech makes sounds in the player’s surroundings come alive, adding to this new level of immersion.
Eye Tracking: With eye tracking, PS VR2 detects the motion of your eyes, so a simple look in a specific direction can create an additional input for the game character. This allows players to interact more intuitively in new and lifelike ways, allowing for a heightened emotional response and enhanced expression that provide a new level of realism in gaming. 
All of these advancements in PlayStation VR2, combined with the haptic feedback and adaptive triggers from the PS VR2 Sense controllers, enable players to feel and interact with games in a much more visceral way. PS VR2 will also have a simple setup process — with a single cable connected directly to PS5, you can immediately jump into the VR experience.

Today we are also pleased to reveal that one of the biggest exclusive franchises on PlayStation will be coming to PS VR2 – Horizon Call of the Mountain from Guerrilla and Firesprite. This original game is being built specifically for PS VR2 and will open the doors for players to go deeper into the world of Horizon.

I hope you’ve enjoyed today’s exciting updates. Just remember, this is only a taste of things to come, and I can’t wait to share more details with you about PS VR2. In the meantime, below is the list of official specifications. 

PlayStation VR2 Specifications

Display method	OLED
Panel resolution	2000 x 2040 per eye
Panel refresh rate	90Hz, 120Hz
Lens separation	Adjustable
Field of View	Approx. 110 degrees
Sensors	Motion Sensor: Six-axis motion sensing system (three-axis gyroscope, three-axis accelerometer) Attachment Sensor: IR Proximity sensor
Cameras	4 cameras for headset and controller trackingIR camera for eye tracking per eye
Feedback	Vibration on headset
Communication with PS5	USB Type-C®
Audio	Input: Built-in microphoneOutput: Stereo headphone jack

PlayStation VR2 Sense Controllers Specifications Buttons

PS button, Options button, Action buttons (Circle / Cross), R1 button, R2 button, Right Stick / R3 button

PS button, Create button, Action buttons (Triangle / Square), L1 button, L2 button, Left Stick / L3 button Sensing/ Tracking Motion Sensor: Six-axis motion sensing system (three-axis gyroscope + three-axis accelerometer) Capacitive Sensor: Finger Touch DetectionIR LED: Position Tracking Feedback Trigger Effect (on R2/L2 button), Haptic Feedback (by single actuator per unit) Port USB Type-C® Port Communication Bluetooth® Ver5.1  Battery Type: Built-in Lithium-ion Rechargeable Battery

And the trailer for Call of the Mountain:

 

[Dcubed]

Nice piece of kit, but no backwards compatibility with the original PS VR?

[Ronnie]

4 hours ago, Dcubed said:

Nice piece of kit, but no backwards compatibility with the original PS VR?

They can't possibly be that stupid to not let you play PSVR1 games on this.

[Goafer]

The PlayStation's adaptive triggers could be an amazing addition to VR. 

I don't think it's enough to draw me away from my Quest 2, but exciting to think about what could happen.

28 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

They can't possibly be that stupid to not let you play PSVR1 games on this.

In assuming it's a joke about the whole backwards compatibility debacle when the PS5 was announced? Or has something been mentioned?

It would indeed be stupid. Too stupid to be believable. Like, as long as the buttons are still there, there shouldn't be any reason for it to not be compatible. Unless they couldn't be upscaled?

In all honesty, I've lost all interest in console or PC based VR now that I've got the Quest. A standalone, wireless unit is just so convenient and it works as well as I'd want one to.

[V. Amoleo]

On 05/01/2022 at 2:34 PM, Goafer said:

In all honesty, I've lost all interest in console or PC based VR now that I've got the Quest. A standalone, wireless unit is just so convenient and it works as well as I'd want one to.

This is why I was expecting the PSVR2 to be an extension of their now-unused portable gaming line.  Could have even had it like the Quest where you could connect it up to a PS5 if you wanted to.

[V. Amoleo]

So I had typed up a massive post about the games I've tried on Quest 2 and what games I'm after next.  Then one of my cats decided I didn't need this page open anymore so closed it.  I'm not typing it out again today!

To summarise:  Really enjoying the Quest 2 in portable mode.  The games I have that are cross buy don't offer enough differences for me to want to play them using Rift Link rather than portable.  Quest 2 in Rift Link mode looks as good, if not better, than my original VIve but a little bit more closed in than the Index. I bought Lone Echo for PCVR, because it was a Rift exclusive that I've wanted for a while, but it crashes randomly every few miniutes for me.  Resident Evil 2 Remake VR mod makes the poop shoot out, very recommended!

Edited January 7, 2022 by V. Amoleo

[bob]

What if I don't want my poop shot out?

[V. Amoleo]

On 07/01/2022 at 12:03 PM, bob said:

[quote post="1888187" timestamp="1641553921" name="Resident Evil 2 Remake VR mod makes the poop shoot out, very recommended![/quote]


What if I don't want my poop shot out?

Then I do not recommend 😂

[Shorty]

I've just recently moved my PC up into my attic room, so now for the first time since I got VR (years ago), I have a really good dedicated space for VR. Lots of room to move around, and no light fittings above my head to accidentally punch.

I'm going to be using a Quest with PC Link over USB 3, as anything else has just proven too unstable due to the wifi situation in my house (which is good for most things, except wanting to be near the router and have room for VR). The only other wireless option I might try is connecting a 5ghz router directly connected to my PC, but that can wait.

I'm starting up by getting the "Ultimate VR Modlist" for Skyrim using Wabbajack, then I'm going to get a bit further on Half Life Alyx finally.

[ArtMediocre]

Nice! I'm still stuck with my incredibly small playspace "over" the bed (while leaning at one side of it) until we move next summer. Then I'll get a dedicated office where I'll be sure to reserve a square space to play VR games.

@Shorty: I've read a lot of recommendations for VR play spaces, and one of the best ones is to lay out a circular rug in the center of the space. That way you'll stay in the middle, and won't wander off which is somethin even I do on my small space. Could be something to consider now that you've got a dedicated space :). 

And also, yay! Alyx is so much fun! How far did you get in the story? Looking forward to hearing more about it  

[Shorty]

Yeah I've read that idea too. Funnily enough I just bought a circular rug for this room for the office chair to protect the floor so I have that ready to go. I've become more aware on recent uses of the VR that the best thing to do is try and stay centred (while appreciating that you have a good amount of "arm-waving" room)

As far as Alyx... it's been quite a while so I'm not sure I could describe exactly where I was up to. I'd just done a dark bit with lots of explosive barrels and Barnacles but that describes most of Half Life doesn't it...

[ArtMediocre]

7 hours ago, Shorty said:

Yeah I've read that idea too. Funnily enough I just bought a circular rug for this room for the office chair to protect the floor so I have that ready to go. I've become more aware on recent uses of the VR that the best thing to do is try and stay centred (while appreciating that you have a good amount of "arm-waving" room)

As far as Alyx... it's been quite a while so I'm not sure I could describe exactly where I was up to. I'd just done a dark bit with lots of explosive barrels and Barnacles but that describes most of Half Life doesn't it...

So you haven't gotten the flashlight yet? Sounds like this is just before that

[Shorty]

I had done that bit already, apparently I'm on Chapter 3. I've had to give up again for now though. Every time I try and get into VR, I end up being hampered by some degree of setup quality that is bringing me down. I usually try to fix it for a while then give up and stop playing VR again for months.

This time though, it's not just me being fussy. Once I'm connected to Oculus via PC Link or Air Link, all hand movements are jittery. It's so unpleasant to see that it's ruining the whole experience.

I've tried loads of settings tweaks, including signing my soul over to Mark Zuckerberg to make a developer account so I could disable the Guardian, but still getting that judder...

I find it unlikely that it's the cable (although it's not the official obscenely priced one) because the effect is exactly the same on Air Link. And I definitely wasn't having this issue when I first used PC Link.

Edit: ok so… (damn this is still such unstable tech overall) I managed to fix the stutter in pc link hilariously with a fix I found on Reddit that involves opening the debug console on your pc and making sure the window is in focus while you play. Amazingly that worked. And I hugely improved Skyrim by switching from using Steam VR to OpenComposite which made it way better. Not tried Alyx again yet, fixing VR issues is exhausting!

[ArtMediocre]

@Shorty What in the world. How is even that a fix? I agree, there's a lot of issues with VR from a Plug and Play-experience unfortunatly. The Quest has done an amazing work with making it more mainstream and easy to use, but as soon as you try to use it like a PC headset, it's still full of issues. But when it works, oh man does it work wonders

I gotta say though, my HP Reverb G2 has been flawless from start, not really had any issues or bugs with it so far. And a lot of users are claiming it's the headset with the most bugs. The only thing that bugs me is the okay-ish tracking. I wish it was as good as base station tracking, but that'll probably be something we'll get with the next generation of VR headsets. 

Speaking of tracking, if anyone is interested in Full Body Tracking I've done some research, and SlimeVR looks to be really, really good! You get wi-fi connected tracking (no base stations needed!) for as low as $169, which is crazy cheap! I've ordered a kit as I play VRchat quite a lot these days. Unfortunately, their production has been hampered by chip shortage, so my estimated delivery date is november 2022 =_=.

Another contender is the HaritoraX which does the same thing, but with a more easy to use system with connected cables and IR trackers and whatnot. 10 hours of playtime, with only 1 USB charge port for the whole thing. If this drops for pre-orders in EU soon, I'll cancel my order of SlimeVR and get this instead. HaritoraX costs $270, and I would say the ease of use and more accessible system is worth the extra money. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by ArtMediocre

[bob]

To be honest, the same criticism could be had of PC gaming in general. Steam helped to reduce the number of bugs and other fucking around, but the hardware differences between multiple PCs means that you will always have issues.

The Quest has the advantage of always having the same hardware running the same games, so it usually 'just works'.

Hopefully, in the future, the standalone headsets will be powerful enough (or will connect to a standard console or external PC), making the experience easier.

[ArtMediocre]

2 hours ago, bob said:

To be honest, the same criticism could be had of PC gaming in general. Steam helped to reduce the number of bugs and other fucking around, but the hardware differences between multiple PCs means that you will always have issues.

The Quest has the advantage of always having the same hardware running the same games, so it usually 'just works'.

Hopefully, in the future, the standalone headsets will be powerful enough (or will connect to a standard console or external PC), making the experience easier.

Good point. The PC is usually the source of the problem, and it's understandable considering all the different components and brands there are. 

I have high hope for a high resolution MicroLED with cloud based gaming. It would let us have a high-end headset with mid-range components (apart from the screens), and it would probably reduce cost, weight and size. It'll be interesting to see what HTC will do with their 5G prototype of their Vive Focus 3. It's a start. 

[ArtMediocre]

Aaaand now I've gone ahead and bought a used Valve Index =_=. I've been considering it for a while actually, and while the HP Reverb G2 is great on a lot of aspects, I've been slowly irritated by the bad tracking of the controllers, as well as how to power on and off the headset, and not to mention Mixed Reality Portal. That software is annoying in itself, and when I have to run it in the background no matter what I do, then it annoys me. 

While the Valve Index can't compete with the colors or the displays in general, it excels in almost every other aspect. Controllers, tracking, software, FOV, HZ. The FOV will be awesome to get back. Also the quality of the device in itself is better than the G2. So, I was thinking that if I got a good deal, I'd go ahead and buy it. And now it somehow happened. Really happy with getting it, even though the price here in Norway is crazy high. £1200 for a used model, and even that's a bargin.

[Shorty]

So how is the Index? Part of me is weighing up the idea of going bigger and better in VR, against maybe just seeing it as a party device and accepting that I should mostly stick with the Quest's own games, crazy golf and Superhot, it makes things simpler!

 

On 17/01/2022 at 4:49 PM, bob said:

To be honest, the same criticism could be had of PC gaming in general. Steam helped to reduce the number of bugs and other fucking around, but the hardware differences between multiple PCs means that you will always have issues.

As someone who grew up battling things like sound driver and graphics card driver selections during installation, and installing and reinstalling PC games (very slowly) a million times and eventually giving up on them, it is funny how remniscent this is of that. But I don't think I ever had to download third party launchers or anything quite as obscure as having a debug window in focus while trying to play a game!

[ArtMediocre]

The buyer actually chose not to sell after weighing the options. Sucks for me, and seeing as we did the deal privately over discord, there wasn't really something I could do to hold him to his part of the deal. But I had a good chat with the guy, and turns out that if I know someone in Sweden I can buy the whole thing for retail price (€1000) and get it brought over without paying taxes. So I have that going on at the moment. 

I'll give an update when I have it, but I know that the surperior tracking is something I miss even from the Oculus CV1 days. Going to be good to come back to full lighthouse tracking after all this time. Also, the FOV is incredible on the device. I've used the Index extensively before, so I know what I'm going to :). 

I think it all depends on your use and how you plan on playing VR.

[Julius]

First look at the PSVR2 headset:

 

[bob]

 

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by bob