ReZourceman Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 What did you get up to last night @ReZourceman? I protected you from being targeted by members of the mafia.
Cube Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) A bit of a dick move, but after the jimbob thing, drastic measures had to be taken. Also, it's a standard mafia power. On top of bad luck for the mafia, I'm also largely to blame due to a lack of actions. I can't apologise to Jimbob, and Smèagol enough for that. Edited March 4, 2014 by Cube
Sméagol Posted March 4, 2014 Author Posted March 4, 2014 Vote count: Mr-Paul [2]: Jonnas / Rummy Not voting [5]: The Peeps / Yvonne / Mr-Paul / DuD / ReZourceman There are 7 active players. Absolute majority is 4. Majority has not been reached. Deadline is 06-03-2014 00:00 CET (05-03-2014 23:00 UK) 26 hours remaining.
Sheikah Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 Shame on the lack of Paul lynch... I'm absolutely amazed if your ability was ever allowed for even a day, @DuD. Combined with a protection passive that would be pretty much immediately disqualifying Mafia from any kind of success. Can you tell us all your passives and actives since game begin? I got that you did no active on D1 and that your active was this death control the night before...
Sméagol Posted March 4, 2014 Author Posted March 4, 2014 Vote count: Mr-Paul [5]: Jonnas / Rummy / Yvonne Not voting [4]: The Peeps / Mr-Paul / DuD / ReZourceman There are 7 active players. Absolute majority is 4. Majority has been reached. Deadline is advanced to 05-03-2014 00:00 CET (04-03-2014 23:00 UK) 1 hour remaining.
Mr-Paul Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 Sorry, I've really not had a lot of time for posting in this game, I really was excited about it but a lack of time and bad luck really killed it for me. Apologies to all. Now wait for my lynchbomb :P
Sheikah Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 If you're Mafia you can still change your passive if you haven't already to a lynchbomb. Trolol.
Sméagol Posted March 4, 2014 Author Posted March 4, 2014 End of day 4 Final vote count: Mr-Paul [5]: Jonnas / Rummy / Yvonne Not voting [4]: The Peeps / Mr-Paul / DuD / ReZourceman There are 7 active players. Absolute majority is 4. Majority has been reached. Report: Mr-Paul has been lynched. Mr-Paul was mafia. The last member of the mafia has been lynched. Town is victorious! End of game [01] The Peeps - town - endgame [02] Yvonne - town - endgame [03] Rummy - town - endgame [04] Mr-Paul - mafia lynched [05] Jonnas - town - endgame [06] Sheikah - town - killed [07] Jimbob - mafia - killed [08] DuD - town - endgame [09] Cube - mafia - lynched [10] ReZourceman - town - endgame Black denotes active players. Grey denotes dead players. @Mr\-Paul@Jonnas@Sheikah@Jimbob@DuD@Cube@ReZourceman This has been the Riot mafia! Thanks for playing! Comment: I´ll be busy with The walking dead.. I´ll post my thoughts later. In short: it wasn't really a game, it was more a farce, with the abysmal performance of the mafia. Mr-Paul was the only one doing the thinking. That said, town seemed to have fun, and that´s always what I aim for. I´d love to do this again. I´ll also post all the used abilities later.
The Peeps Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 I think it's a shame the mafia were quite easy to deduce. Jonnas got very lucky with Jimbob and after that it was basically whoever had been least vocal. Cube and mr-paul were fairly easy to sniff out as everyone else was being quite proactive in the thread. I thought it was a fantastic game though and very refreshing. I'd like to see a full list of powers used as I'm sure there are some completely new ones in there.
Sheikah Posted March 4, 2014 Posted March 4, 2014 Very fun to play. I'm the only townie who lost, heh. To think, it was nearly town perfection! It's a shame the Mafia didn't protect themselves and come up with more creative roles to increase their chances of success. If I was Mafia I would have set up undetectable passive redirects and protections to stop people screwing with me.
Jonnas Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 I jailkept mr-paul during the last day again, by the way, hence no deaths. Also, yes, I got lucky the first time around. I wanted to take advantage of a vigilante power as soon as I could, though. After that, it simply happened what would happen if everybody has access to, essentially, unlimited resources. Hell, if DuD really got to be able to control the night's deaths...
Yvonne Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 I think as an experiment it was a great success, and I think that elements and ideas from this are going to enrich the designs of future games. As a game there were obviously balance issues, but there were always going to be - it's a bit like saying Calvinball is unfair. Really looking forward to the analysis!
Sméagol Posted March 5, 2014 Author Posted March 5, 2014 Like I said, I´ll comment on it more elaborately.. But I have absolutely no clue about the balance. This game provides no data at all. I think it may be in favour of town, but this game proves nothing. Mafia had (relatively) loads of unused abilities left due to inactivity.. I still want to see what happens if a group of people work together. The abilities are still limited to once per turn, that should help, the ratio is exactly the same as it always has been, and a group should have the advantage of co-ordinating and brainstorming. However, Mr-Paul was on his own, and he soon gave up it seems. I imagine being on your own against all of town is intimidating though.
Mr-Paul Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Yeah, I got a bit deflated by it. As soon as the game started I tried to get some targets arranged but unfortunately was limited by Cube being on holiday, Smeagol didn't want team mates submitting powers for each other. By then the kill power had been stolen, and Jimbob died. While I feel that there was a lot more we could have done, I feel in terms of balance, this was a game that heavily favoured town. In my opinion, mafia is a game that is most defined by the fact that people are limited - they have a defined role and the day phases are defined by trust as well as genuine info. In this game, a townie could get info whenever they wanted, creating little challenge for them. Mafia couldn't lie without being caught out, and I was reluctant to use many/any powers during the day as we needed to pull off night kills to win. And because everyone else had lots of info (from creative roles) it was difficult to make stuff up. I strongly believe that it would have been near impossible for us to pull off a lynch of a townie - the only way I can see it happening would be to somehow manipulate lie detector results, because I'm sure anyone who would properly defend themselves against a lynch would request another person to lie detect them. I also feel that the fact you could post after death highly benefitted townies more than mafia, yes, I know there was only one dead townie, but a dead mafioso posting helps nothing. If we had been slightly more successful, we'd still have all of the townies posting and questioning things, just not using powers. I feel like this probably would get rid of some of the paranoia that defines the end stages of a tight game. Anyway, thanks again to Sméagol, I did really like the concept. It was a combination of genuine lack of time and then a bit of demotivation from how badly it went that killed it for me, but I'd definitely like to try something like this again, perhaps it'd turn out very differently!
Rummy Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Thanks @Sméagol for a great game - concept and idea has been brilliant. Sorry I ended up essentially doing the same thing every night! I've been super busy IRL which limited my creativity somewhat. I don't know what the arrangements were for the mafia or their setup - but I think with an active and creative mafia maybe the game could work just as well for them(grass is greener of course); could maybe be some changes in their favour though from what mr-paul has said - maybe no posting after death, or maybe no immediate alignment reveals(maybe a day or two's delay; can be found sooner with powers or later in due course). I think it's a shame the mafia were quite easy to deduce. Jonnas got very lucky with Jimbob and after that it was basically whoever had been least vocal. Cube and mr-paul were fairly easy to sniff out as everyone else was being quite proactive in the thread. I thought it was a fantastic game though and very refreshing. I'd like to see a full list of powers used as I'm sure there are some completely new ones in there. I'd agree with this - I had my suspicions of Cube and Mr-paul very early on - for one a lot of the town powers essentially chained up to half exonerate a few of us; but mostly it was due to my biggest suspicion of inactivity. Whilst it looks unrelated to their being mafia, I wondered if mafia would be extra cautious about posting in a game where essentially anything can happen. Not sure I want to see a power list though - as much as I'm very curious I think I'd like some people's creativity to stay under wraps for future games :p
DuD Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 I jailkept mr-paul during the last day again, by the way, hence no deaths. There was no death because I was last night's target and I commuted out of town.
Mr-Paul Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Yeah, I made myself untargetable but DuD was nowhere to be found.
Jimbob Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 A very good concept for a game, which i congratulate you for. Jonnas got lucky, who knows where the game would have gone to if i hadn't died in the first night.
Sméagol Posted March 6, 2014 Author Posted March 6, 2014 First of all, all the abilties. I´ll post my comments later. The abilities are abbreviated for the sake of being practical. If anyone want more detailed info.. You´ll actually have to ask the player performing the ability, as I deleted most of the PM´s out of necessity. I also deleted the abilties for dead people, so I try if I can recall them, otherwise, the players themselves have to fill in the blanks. Also, I can´t recall every request I rejected. If you want to know why I rejected something, you can ask now. There is going to be a sequel at some point (I´m thinking Christmas), so take a good luck (especially future mafia members), to see what you´re up against. Turn 1 The Peeps passive: on targeting send player PM with "We Like Roy!" The Peeps active: alignment investigate Yvonne immediately (report sent) Yvonne passive: if 2 players attempt to use the same ability in a turn, grant double vote next turn. Yvonne active: make The Peeps active and passive ability apear in the write-up Rummy passive: on targeting notify Rummy of who´s targeting him and attempting to perform what action. Rummy active: a copy of the PMs ReZourceman sends. Mr-Paul passive: appear town under investigation Mr-Paul active: protect Cube from all targeting Jonnas passive: n/a Jonnas active: kill Jimbob (night) Sheikah passive: on death roleblock player responsible for death (either killer or hammer) next turn Sheikah active: on target, use the ability on the player instead top priority. Jimbob passive: n/a Jimbob active: make anyone targeting Jonnas appear opposite alignment DuD passive: on death (kill), kill killer as well. Dud active: n/a Cube passive: n/a Cube: active: n/a ReZourceman passive: on targeting with a negative ability (kill, ability interference), player must write in green text next turn. If they break this rule, they won´t be able to send in an ability that turn. ReZourceman active: steal The Peeps PM (Peeps already received a PM, no use) Comment: The Peeps had already gotten his result, so there was nothing left for ReZ to steal. Jonnas got extremely lucky.. There was an exact 30% chance Jimbob would be mafia. If Jonnas didn´t take the shot, Sheikah would´ve killed Rummy. Turn 2 The Peeps passive: on targeting include player´s name in a list in the write-up The Peeps active: reflect abilities back to source Yvonne passive: Receive previous night's target for anyone who uses the @ symbol in a post in current day phase. Yvonne active: delay effects of abilities on Yvonne by one phase. Yvonne status: double vote Rummy passive (change available): on targeting notify Rummy of who´s targeting him and attempting to perform what action. Rummy active: a copy of the PM´s Sheikah sends Mr-Paul passive (change available): appear town under investigation Mr-Paul active: kill Sheikah Jonnas passive: n/a Jonnas active: jailkeep mr-paul Sheikah passive (change available): on death roleblock player responsible for death (either killer or hammer) next turn ##### made a mistake, forgot to update passive ability. Was supposed to be changed Sheikah active: placebo truth serum thing Jimbob passive: n/a Jimbob active: n/a DuD passive: passive and active abilities can stop or alter DuD´s passive or active abilities. DuD active: when somebody kills, DuD will take place of killer, but will have the option to decide whether to go thorugh with it. DuD wants to kill Cube instead of Sheikah Cube passive: on death (kill lynch) kill player as well Cube active: n/a ReZourceman passive (change available): on targeting with a negative ability (kill, ability interference), player must write in green text next turn. If they break this rule, they won´t be able to send in an ability that turn. ReZourceman active: force The Peeps = reZ to post 5 sentences or more each post. Reflected by The Peeps ability Comment: Like I already told him, in hindsight, I shouldn´t have allowed DuD´s ability, and I didn't next turn. At first it looked cool, but after looking at it some more, I felt there was very little to distinguish it from a regular kill. Would have allowed it again without the redirection part. It didn´t do anything this time however, as the killer, mr-Paul, was roleblocked. Or well, jailkept. If he was not, Cube would be dead. DuD´s original request was quite involved. I kept replying that I´d need something very detailed and specific before I even considered it. Eventually, this scared him off, and he requested something else. If I had allowed it the way he wanted, he would be a bona fide terrorist. I forgot to update Sheikah´s passive. I forgot what he wanted. It was my mistake. ReZourceman got reflected with his own ability. He had to post 5 or more sentences each post. He did. He neglected to think of some sort of punishment though, and I couldn't be arsed with one, so I didn´t check for this. I also thought this was actually some sort of roundabout way to alignment investigate someone (perhaps why ReZ didn´t think of a punishment). I only allowed it because that turn, nobody actually bothered with an actual alignment investigation. Turn 3 The Peeps passive(change available): on targeting include player´s name in a list in the write-up The Peeps active: alignment investigate Cube immediately: report sent Yvonne passive: Get an extra vote for every page of discussion this turn Yvonne active: anyone targeting Yvonne dies. Yvonne status: triple vote Rummy passive (change available): on targeting notify Rummy of who´s targeting him and attempting to perform what action. Rummy active: get PM´s from mr-paul Mr-Paul passive: reflect everything back to user Mr-Paul active: kill DuD Jonnas passive: people who are blocked by Jonnas won´t be informed Jonnas active: jailkeep mr-paul Sheikah passive: reflect abilities back to user Sheikah active: n/a DuD passive: find out who is targeted for death DuD active: wants to be untargetable Cube passive: on death (kill lynch) kill player as well Cube active: n/a ReZourceman passive (change available): on targeting with a negative ability (kill, ability interference), player must write in green text next turn. If they break this rule, they won´t be able to send in an ability that turn. ReZourceman active: protect The Peeps from mafia Comment: Yvonne´s ability is quite powerful. In normal circumstances, I´d probably would´ve though longer about it, but from turn 2 it was already apparent (to me) that the mafia team were doomed. Also, it was technically indiscriminate, so I thought it potentially could do the mafia some good. However, Yvonne was basically the first person to put the PM´s to good use, he warned a few players he trusted. Even still, the fact it did nothing in the end confirms to me it does not affect the balance. Sheikah was disappointed his reflect ability didn´t work. I don´t consider passive abilities as abilities being used on him. He triggered it himself. Mr-Paul finally chose a useful passive, which became available after Sheikah died because of the lynchbomb (I had to doublecheck this as I´d almost forgotten). It meant that Rummy got his own PM´s, and Jonnas jailkept himself. The reason why the kill failed was therefore because DuD was untargetable, which h chose because he was well aware he was the intended victim. Turn 4 The only thing that happened was that The Peeps roleblocked himself due to Mr-Paul´s reflect ability. So, those are all the abilities if I´m correct. Again, I´ll post my comments about the game in general later.
Sheikah Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 Looking at many of those abilities, I feel really sorry for whoever gets made Mafia next. lol.
Sméagol Posted July 16, 2014 Author Posted July 16, 2014 I want to discuss 2 things. Even if you're not interested in Riot 2 (which I don't intend to start soon by the way), at least read my 2nd point. About Riot 2 As I already said, I´d love to do another one, probably around Christmas again, as people aren´t as invested around that time, so it´s perfect to do a non-serious game. Of course the theme of the game is extreme chaos, but I want some balance, so there is still an actual game to be found underneath. Some mafia members were not happy with the balance I believe, although I still believe I need to see a game with a fully active mafia team to see if there´s really something wrong with the balance. So I don´t intend to make big changes to the next game. If in the next game, it appears there is something wrong, I have some things in mind to add, but we´ll see about that that time arrives. For Riot 2, to only thing regarding balance I want to change (so far), is that I give the mafia team a full day´s head start, so they can think up strategies and decide on targets before the actual game starts. I have some other things in mind, but these are additional game mechanics, which I don´t think will affect the balance in a negative way. I want to specifically ask about 2 things: revival and recruitment. I didn´t see a way to make this work in a mafia game, well specifically, this mafia game. I mean, it´s fine as a one-off in a regular mafia game, but not in a game where everyone can choose to do this every turn. Unlike other abilities, I see this as a massive disadvantage for the mafia team, as there are more townies than scumnags. It´s a tug-of-war in favour of town. I originally intended to allow revival, but when recruitment was suggested, I saw some problems with it, and I realised revival was very similar to recruitment in certain regards. I´d love to allow them in the next game, but I don´t see how I can make it work, short of adding a type of "super ability" which can be used only once per game. On the other hand, I´m not sure why I´m making an exception for these 2 abilities, as the whole philosophy of this game is that everything can be undone or circumvented with creative use of the passive ability. The mafia team just need to be smarter about it, and collectively, they hopefully are. So I appreciate any suggestions or general comments regarding the above, or general comments and suggestions in general (although again, I'm unlikely to make big changes regarding balance). #################### A non-mafia Riot variant I had this idea for a non-mafia variant which would circumvent any potential balance issues as you´re playing in 2 equally sized teams. If you people like the idea, I could start this soon. Changes and their implications, and similarities: - 2 equally sized teams. - No use for voting and lynching. - Not much use for discussion but.. - Players start of not knowing the other members of their team. - This would make the alignment investigation still useful. The main discussion thread, which doesn´t have much use, could be used for some mindgames. You could openly declare your alignment, in the hope of finding others (which leads to teamwork and hopefully better strategies), and hope you get properly protected. You can also lie about it for other effects. - Unlike mafia games, it not only becomes a race to find the members of the other team, but the members of your own team. - People didn´t have much use for PM'ing eachother in the Riot mafia, although that probably was simply because you weren´t used to being allowed to. It probably has more use in this game, although there are similar risks. - Regarding abilities it´s the same as the Riot mafia. Same restrictions apply. Although, the first subject of this post also applies here, so it may be useful to provide some input on that if you haven´t already. I am not sure if I have thought this through, but if you like this idea, let me know, and comments are always appreciated.
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