Should Nintendo go 3rd party?!

[Hero-of-Time]

Anyone think we're having a direct this month?!

 

Most are expecting one either this week or next before the meeting.

 

Oh I thought that's what others had been referring to about the date/event we'd find out at, no?

 

Nah, that's the investor/sales meeting, whatever the hell it's called.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Hero-of-Time
Automerged Doublepost

[Goron_3]

How much power do the shareholders have in this? If Nintendo continued losing money for long enough could they be forced into developing phone or other console games?

 

They have a board (the composition of which is made up of people put there by Iwata with no representatives from NoA) who ultimately make decisions, based on the financial and reputational state of the company. No one can force Nintendo to develop for phones or other consoles; the only one who can authorise that is Iwata, after discussion with other board members.

 

I have no idea what the terms of reference are for their decision making boards, but normally half the number of voting members or so are needed to authorise a strategic decision like that (so if there are 20 voting members, 10 of them saying 'Let's make mobile games' would be enough for Iwata to authorise it). Will that happen? No, because (if I've read correctly) Nintendo will be reviewing it's strategy going forward, which we will hear more of at the end of this month, although I must stress that creating an organisational strategy can take weeks, if not months.

 

The strategy will dictate how they run for next 5-10 years and what they will change within their organisation to meet their goals. A part of this will undoubtedly be to move some resource to mobile games.

 

Hope that made sense

[Serebii]

They have a board (the composition of which is made up of people put there by Iwata with no representatives from NoA) who ultimately make decisions, based on the financial and reputational state of the company. No one can force Nintendo to develop for phones or other consoles; the only one who can authorise that is Iwata, after discussion with other board members.

 

I have no idea what the terms of reference are for their decision making boards, but normally half the number of voting members or so are needed to authorise a strategic decision like that (so if there are 20 voting members, 10 of them saying 'Let's make mobile games' would be enough for Iwata to authorise it). Will that happen? No, because (if I've read correctly) Nintendo will be reviewing it's strategy going forward, which we will hear more of at the end of this month, although I must stress that creating an organisational strategy can take weeks, if not months.

 

The strategy will dictate how they run for next 5-10 years and what they will change within their organisation to meet their goals. A part of this will undoubtedly be to move some resource to mobile games.

 

Hope that made sense

Any plans that are to be put forth next week will have been planned for months. It's not going to be a "release financials. panic. release a plan cooked up in two weeks" situation. Nintendo has known that this is the situation for quite a while.

 

Iwata also EXPLICITLY said that they are not putting games on mobile on Friday. Based on his statement on Friday, their new business structure is regarding pricing etc. as well as the strategy for the Wii U.

[liger05]

Why do people just assume Nintendo games would sell gangbusters on other platforms?

[dazzybee]

Most are expecting one either this week or next before the meeting.

 

Hope so, last years was great

 

Though this news may make them delay it to prepare a different kind of one!

[Goron_3]

Any plans that are to be put forth next week will have been planned for months. It's not going to be a "release financials. panic. release a plan cooked up in two weeks" situation. Nintendo has known that this is the situation for quite a while.

 

Iwata also EXPLICITLY said that they are not putting games on mobile on Friday. Based on his statement on Friday, their new business structure is regarding pricing etc. as well as the strategy for the Wii U.

 

I know, my point is that strategy can take longer than expected.

 

And yes, but you know what I mean. They WILL have to stop ignoring mobile devices.

[Serebii]

I know, my point is that strategy can take longer than expected.

 

And yes, but you know what I mean. They WILL have to stop ignoring mobile devices.

Not ignoring it does not mean they'll put their games on the devices.

 

They also will be revealing their strategy on Jan 30th. They renamed the investor meeting to show this.

[dazzybee]

I didn't know this was the debate. They have explicitly said they are going to start using mobile to give people a taste of their console games, and also said it doesn't mean putting mario on there. I think this means creating experiences like Rayman Jungle Run, which is a good idea!! Though it could satiate peoples nintendo fixes too

[Serebii]

I didn't know this was the debate. They have explicitly said they are going to start using mobile to give people a taste of their console games, and also said it doesn't mean putting mario on there. I think this means creating experiences like Rayman Jungle Run, which is a good idea!! Though it could satiate peoples nintendo fixes too

They didn't say give a taste. They said to make people aware of them and encourage them to go to the console.

 

There's a bit of a difference in the mean. Making people aware could mean anything, while a taste would mean things like Jungle Run, but that wasn't what was said.

[Retro_Link]

A Donkey Kong Minecart runner/level would be a cool thing to release on mobile to give people a taste.

[dazzybee]

They didn't say give a taste. They said to make people aware of them and encourage them to go to the console.

 

There's a bit of a difference in the mean. Making people aware could mean anything, while a taste would mean things like Jungle Run, but that wasn't what was said.

 

We're going in to serious anal territory here, they could both mean the same things - taster could be a trailer, a nintendo app with news of all the releases, or it could mean a game. Making people aware of their consoles and games could mean an app, a video, or a little game of sorts.... Same thing.

 

A Donkey Kong Minecart runner/level would be a cool thing to release on mobile to give people a taste.

 

This'd be great fun! And with just the jump button needed, a simple tap on the screen, could be great!!

[Daft]

Redundancies are not common place in Nintendo, especially as they have been expanding in the past year. They are very relevant as they have an effect on staff morale which has an effect on quality of work.

 

We have gone over this countless times and @Dcubed's post is the most succinct in this. Go read it.

 

It's irrelevant anyway as it IS NOT HAPPENING.

 

And making games for a console that's in the pan inspires morale? The biggest killer of morale is going to be a lack of convincing leadership which Nintendo is excelling with at the moment.

 

Stop talking in absolutes. You have no idea about the morale at Nintendo. Especially as a result of a hypothetical. You want a fact? The Wii U has bombed, Nintendo's IP's are stretched too thin and mindshare is falling fast. That isn't good for anyone. Not Nintendo's employees, nor the industry. A massive overhaul is needed because things at the moment CLEARLY are not working, and not just a little but a lot. Slight adjustments won't do.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Daft

[Serebii]

And making games for a console that's in the pan inspires morale? The biggest killer of morale is going to be a lack of convincing leadership which Nintendo is excelling with at the moment.

 

Stop talking in absolutes. You have no idea about the morale at Nintendo. Especially as a result of a hypothetical. You want a fact? The Wii U has bombed, Nintendo's IP's are stretched too thin and mindshare is falling fast. That isn't good for anyone. Not Nintendo's employees, nor the industry. A massive overhaul is needed.

 

It doesn't kill morale as much as decimating the workforce.

[Daft]

Prove it.tenchar

[Pestneb]

Daft, having been in both situations, I would agree with serebii, weak leadership is preferable to job insecurity.

[Daft]

Daft, having been in both situations, I would agree with serebii, weak leadership is preferable to job insecurity.

 

That's not proof, that's an anecdote.

 

I've been in both positions and I quit because of terrible leadership. So...

 

@Serebii where are your facts to back this up?

[Serebii]

That's not proof, that's an anecdote.

 

I've been in both positions and I quit because of terrible leadership. So...

 

@Serebii where are your facts to back this up?

That's not proof, that's anecdotal.

 

Where are your facts?

[Daft]

That's not proof, that's anecdotal.

 

Where are your facts?

 

I'm not the one trying to prove anything, you are. You are certain that redundancies will kill morale, I am saying that I have no idea about the morale within Nintendo.

 

The burden of proof is on you, mr journalist.

 

So, again, prove it.

[Goron_3]

Not ignoring it does not mean they'll put their games on the devices.

 

They also will be revealing their strategy on Jan 30th. They renamed the investor meeting to show this.

 

I know. Seriously, do you have to be this pedantic ALL the time? Just leave the thread alone if you're going to be like that.

 

I never said they would put their games on those devices, I just said that they won't ignore it.

 

They are aware that the large majority of children nowadays do not 'game' with Nintendo anymore and instead use those devices. They will take action to fix that.

[flameboy]

I'm not the one trying to prove anything, you are. You are certain that redundancies will kill morale, I am saying that I have no idea about the morale within Nintendo.

 

The burden of proof is on you, mr journalist.

 

So, again, prove it.

 

THANK YOU for cheering up my day!

 

Anyway my piece of anecdotal evidence is I once had a terrible boss it became all consuming in my life and wrecked a lot of stuff for me. I found I wasn't able to leave my stress and job at the front door when I got home and it was a very dark period in my life. No matter how hard I worked I couldn't get to gel right and my life work balance was all over the place.

 

However I've been in positions where job security was an issue and it was something I couldn't control so I took the attitude of well I'll keep plugging away until it "ends" it never did but and I ended up leaving myself but that represented a much happier time in my life.

 

I know. Seriously, do you have to be this pedantic ALL the time? Just leave the thread alone if you're going to be like that.

 

I never said they would put their games on those devices, I just said that they won't ignore it.

 

They are aware that the large majority of children nowadays do not 'game' with Nintendo anymore and instead use those devices. They will take action to fix that.

 

What better way than to put your franchises on these other devices to lure them in. Like a gateway drug if you will.

[Kav]

I'm not the one trying to prove anything, you are. You are certain that redundancies will kill morale, I am saying that I have no idea about the morale within Nintendo...

 

Yet you said this earlier...

 

...The biggest killer of morale is going to be a lack of convincing leadership which Nintendo is excelling with at the moment...

 

 

Serebii posts this...

 

It doesn't kill morale as much as decimating the workforce.

 

To which you reply...

 

Prove it.tenchar

 

Why don't you prove that it doesn't? Why don't you prove your point here...

 

...The biggest killer of morale is going to be a lack of convincing leadership which Nintendo is excelling with at the moment...

 

 

 

It just appears that you're attacking Serebii just for the sake of attacking him. Calling him "Mr Journalist", it's a bit snarky don't you think?

[Daft]

I don't know that it doesn't. I meant to put that as a possible alternative for loss of morale. I didn't phrase it properly. That's my mistake.

 

I'm not attacking him. He calls himself a journalist all the time. I just want those facts of his. I'm 'attacking' his thesis on morale.

 

So Serebii, that proof...we ever going to see any from you?

[Pestneb]

I don't know that it doesn't. I meant to put that as a possible alternative for loss of morale. I didn't phrase it properly. That's my mistake.

 

So Serebii, that proof...we ever going to see any from you?

 

Daft.. seriously, this thread has already been locked and cleaned up once. For the love of the mods :wink:

 

Serebii thinks redundancy is a bigger issue, you believe it is weak leadership.

As a compromise, perhaps we can all agree that neither compulsory redundancy nor poor leadership are desirable in a company and move on

[Jonnas]

@Serebii, don't become part of the problem, now. I think others overreacted in the previous discussion, but right now you're pushing it.

 

Imagine all the resources freed up if Nintendo didn't have to worry about developing and maintaining a hardware platform; how much more focused they could be. Not to mention the money they'd save; it would be cheaper to pay licensing fees to other platform holders, or just pay none at all to release on PC (not to mention financially less risky since they wouldn't have to worry about their sole option failing). And the advantage of being able to react to market trends in a much more nimble manner (instead of having to wait for a console cycle to end).

 

I happen to think hardware R&D doesn't get in the way of software development as much as you think it does. If they did abandon the Wii U, they'd sack most of people involved with R&D, while the game developers would have to change all their focus. It isn't as simple as "cutting the costs".

 

Of course, the point is still moot if we take into account the amount of profit this division has given them over the years (including now, thanks to the 3DS), and that might still give. Better see if the chicken gives another golden egg before making that soup.

 

 

Also, the anecdotal example you just gave... was your boss a weak leader in the sense that he was an asshole to the employees, or was he simply a CEO making less money than he expected? And if it was the latter, was he lazy and/or unmotivated about his decisions, or did he simply make the wrong ones?

And even if it was the former, are the business/marketing decisions of a CEO relevant to game developers, or are the game developers happy to make their games as long as they come out good and they get their money?

 

All these factors into account, I'm with Serebii and pestneb on this. The thought of seeing your job completely retooled (with strong possibility of unemployment) is a worse outcome than simply "Oh, we're making less money than we could".

 

Mind you, I'm talking about developers. The sort of employee that guys like Miyamoto and Iwata hold in higher esteem, and whose morale they value the most.

[flameboy]

Why don't you prove that it doesn't? Why don't you prove your point here...

 

It just appears that you're attacking Serebii just for the sake of attacking him. Calling him "Mr Journalist", it's a bit snarky don't you think?

 

First to the second point. As someone who has also made snarky comments at Serebii it becomes extremely difficult to debate anything with someone who thinks all they present is fact and logic and therefore are always correct yet "not arrogant" about it.

 

To the first point. Let's look;

 

What evidence is there to suggest that Nintendo's workforce is in any danger of being in jeopardy? None at this point. However you can point to many companies both gaming and non-gaming who have made that successful transition back to profitability by downsizing.

 

Now the evidence of poor leadership. As far back as 2011 there were reports of shareholders wanting to move over to mobile in some way shape or form;

 

http://techcrunch.com/2011/08/11/nintendo-shareholders-still-clamoring-for-mario-on-the-iphone/

 

They saw a trend and they wanted Nintendo to move in that direction yet Nintendo resisted and we've seen arguably Nintendo's two poorest years in the form of 2012 and 2013. Despite 2013 being a good year for Nintendo gaming thanks to the likes of Luigi's Mansion, Animal Crossing, Mario 3D World, Zelda. It's plain to see that isn't enough in this day and age.

 

Here's a nice quote from techcrunch surmising how shareholders/investors may feel:

 

So what are shareholders really saying? To use a sports analogy, they’re telling Nintendo to trade their best players because of a down season. Nintendo’s real treasure isn’t the hardware or even the software, per se. It’s the good will, brand awareness, and nostalgia associated with their top games. Nintendo has more console exclusives than any other device manufacturer and they’re going to keep it that way for as long as they can, investors (hopefully) be damned.

 

I think there have been earning/investment calls since this article that have also highlighted this desire from shareholders. So at what point to Nintendo's leadership continue to say this is not the right move? Arguably they've already missed the golden age of mobile gaming now there is too much noise out there and the negative connotations that poorly executed free to play games have unfortunately helped create.

 

Google go out there are tons of market analysts saying this would be a good move for Nintendo both to generate income and sell that brand put it into the hands of the next generation of kids. Make them want the next Nintendo console by giving them a taster.

 

What will it take for Nintendo's leadership to realise that their current business model/plan is not working.

 

DISCLAIMER: I am not a Journalist and this post was written as a result of 5 minutes of research as such there may be discrepancies in my work.

Edited January 20, 2014 by flameboy