Here's a bit of a mad idea of how Nintendo might be able to gain 3rd party support...

[Dcubed]

So I was lamenting the Wii U's dreadful sales performance (especially in light of the hopeless looking numbers for Super Mario 3D World) and I was thinking about how Nintendo has no hope of winning back 3rd party support (even if they pulled off a miracle and revived the console's fortunes - the Wii proves that a large userbase means squat for getting quality support; and 3rd party games from the likes of Ubisoft have hardly set the Wii U charts alight anyway, so the demographics have no doubt scared them off for good). Even if they scrapped the Wii U altogether and brought out a new super duper powerful dickwaving machine, they would probably still have zero chance of getting any meaningful 3rd party support now; there's no way that they would willingly support Nintendo and there's no way that Nintendo could possibly pay for every game to be ported to their platform, not to mention that they couldn't possibly win a moneyhat bidding war against MS and Sony anyway...

 

...then suddenly a mad idea just hit me. What if they took the Wii U hardware (its CPU/GPU and Gamepad Wifi streaming hardware) and put it inside their own custom designed Steam Machine!

 

I'm sure most of you are fully aware of what Valve are planning with their Steam OS platform (if not - go here: http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/). So you'll know that it's a Linux distro that is offered to OEM partners for free, without any associated licensing fees, for them to build x86/64 based PCs in a console box.

 

So what if Nintendo built and sold their own Steam Machine, featuring two sets of CPU/GPU hardware (the first being a set of PC parts that conforms to Valve's required specifications and the second being the Wii U's CPU/GPU - allowing the machine to be capable of playing both Steam OS PC games and Wii/Wii U games!). Nintendo would still design their games for the Wii U hardware, and the games/OS would function exactly as they do on the current machine; this would just be a luxury model of sorts (like the Panasonic Q).

 

In one fell swoop, without having to beg anyone, Nintendo's console would instantly have the support of almost every current 3rd party developer! (Except for EA of course, since they only sell their games on Origin and would never support their competitors). They would also have exclusivity on all of Valve's own games too amongst the big 3 (since Valve are seemingly no longer interested in porting their games to consoles).

 

The console's two sets of hardware would be unable to interact with each other and it would feature two segregated OS' (Steam OS and the Wii U OS - selectable on startup via a custom Bios, running on a seperate ARM chip) - this sandboxing would protect the Wii U side from being hacked for piracy. However, that same ARM chip could also function as an interpreter that would allow the Gamepad to be used to play every Steam OS game Off TV! (And the touch screen would emulate the mouse in every game - with the Analog stick defaulting to WSAD when it's used - giving it a powerful USP against other Steam Machines; on top of the playable Wii U games of course!)

 

Ever since the N64, Nintendo have always suffered from two major, related and utterly crippling issues; the lack of 3rd party support (leading to long software droughts) and the baggage associated with the Nintendo brand (kiddy, underpowered, lol online etc - you all know the gist). By aligning themselves with Steam, they can feature these 3rd party games on their console and not have their branding become a detriment to the success of these games (and having Steam OS running seperately from the Nintendo stuff also would make for a comfortable experience for those who dislike Nintendo's cutesy style).

 

Now, it does come with some significant problems. For starters, Nintendo would not be earning any royalties from the 3rd party Steam OS games that would be playable on their machine (but when you consider that they wouldn't be getting these games at all otherwise - does that really count as a loss?) - instead, the benefit of having these games playable manifests itself by making the hardware more desireable; giving Nintendo a larger userbase to potentially sell their games to.

 

The hardware would also be expensive... very expensive, even in comparison to other Steam Machines since they'd have to also incorporate the Wii U hardware on top of the PC parts; we're talking possibly $500-650 at launch - but that would come down relatively quickly over time as they would be using parts that are (quite literally!) off the shelf. They could still offer the original Wii U as a cheaper alternative of course (since Nintendo would still be designing their games to run only on the Wii U side of the hardware), but the Nintendo Steam Machine would be more expensive than the PS4 and Xbone. On the flip side though, it would be more powerful than either console and thus would also have the best versions of every 3rd party game by default... However...

 

... The hardware might run into performance issues down the line as the minimum specs for PC games increase later on. While this one is kinda hard to predict, since we've yet to see the influence of Valve's model of standardised minimum specs for their Steam Machines, it's not hard to imagine that future games might not be optimised for play on the calibur of hardware that Nintendo would release with years after it has done so... (But those issues wouldn't necessarily be Nintendo's problem, as they wouldn't be the ones managing Steam...)

 

And finally, the biggest potential issue is that Nintendo would become reliant on somebody else (we all know what happened the last time Nintendo tried something like this...). However, this scenario is different in that Nintendo and Valve both share a common foe in the form of Microsoft and both stand to gain tremendously from such a relationship (a super console that plays almost every major 3rd party game AND Nintendo games!? Crazy!). If Nintendo still continued to sell the Wii U though, they could always break off on their own once more if things go sour (it's not like they'd be in a worse position than they are now!)

 

The result? A Nintendo console that has the best versions of almost every non-EA made 3rd party game (even GTA!) with Off TV play and the ability to play all Wii/Wii U games - and a powerful catalyst for Valve to get their storefront onto TVs and out of Microsoft's Windows ecosystem.

 

Just a crazy thought of mine, but what do you guys reckon?

Edited November 27, 2013 by Dcubed

[Sheikah]

I think the better alternative for the consumer is for Nintendo to just sack making home consoles and release their software on the other systems. It's a nice idea but ultimately a PS4 with Nintendo games is a better solution than this. People generally like Nintendo's software, just not their system/OS/networking features that they come out with. Which is affecting sales of their software, since people aren't splashing out on the hardware.

 

Of course this idea is seen as radically unpopular about these parts. But that be so.

[Ronnie]

I can't think of anything worse than Nintendo games being released on PS4/Xbone

[Cube]

a set of PC parts that conforms to Valve's required specifications

 

As long as the components are as compatible as an OS, a Steam Machine could be an extremely low powered device that only runs games via streaming. It will be hard to find the right balance of price and power.

 

Also, Linux still has a limited library of games. It's not just EA: developers like Ubisoft, Activision and Capcom also don't have any Linux games (Rockstar have also never ported to Linux, so no GTA). Selling on Steam is irrelevant, as EA could still sell on Steam OS by simply making a Linux version of Origin (unless Valve decide to lock Steam OS and block Linux apps, which seems unlike them).

[Sheikah]

I can't think of anything worse than Nintendo games being released on PS4/Xbone

 

Nintendo games released on a Wii U.

[Andyliini]

I'm sorry, but only a SonyPony would think Nintendo releasing games on PS4 would be a good idea.

 

Also, personally I think Steam is overrated as hell.

[Hero-of-Time]

I can't think of anything worse than Nintendo games being released on PS4/Xbone

 

I'm sorry, but only a SonyPony would think Nintendo releasing games on PS4 would be a good idea.

 

Also, personally I think Steam is overrated as hell.

 

Not that it would ever happen but lets just say that it did and the quality of the Nintendo titles remained as they are now, what would be the issue?

[Andyliini]

Look what happened to Sega, the quality of their games plummeted when they went 3rd-party.

 

I think the same will happen to Nintendo, as they would have to lay off much of their staff and "go small" in the way of Sega. That's the only thing I can think of. I see no way Nintendo keeping their quality on different consoles.

[peterl0]

One of the reasons I think that Nintendo going third party would not work is that a significant part of the game for me is the quality of controls and responsiveness. I think that having an intimate knowledge of the hardware (or access to someone that does ) helps with this. From a personal point of view I got into games largely because of the responsiveness of the controller on the original super mario bros. I have had other consoles since then but gave never really been satisfied with the controllers.

 

I actually quite like the idea of the thread for this reason. However I think the problem it would have with the Nintendo board is that they still would not be able to charge the licence fee for dev work/third party releases on the console. The licence fee on the successful consoles has enabled Nintendo to relieve the pressure on their dev teams and give them more resources and time than they otherwise would have had.

 

Obviously it is possible to have a software company that does take financial risks and delay games for later reward but the temptation would be not to do this. See: Sega.

[Serebii]

Making a Steam Box would open Nintendo games up for being played on PC and other devices which would essentially make them a third party.

 

You also listed several VERY big problems that would destroy Nintendo. First is not getting royalties from third party games and second is the fact it'd cost like $500. People wouldn't pay that. It would put Nintendo in a far worse position.

 

Nintendo will never have third party support. People like to think it's because of Nintendo's choices in hardware, and on some levels, it certainly didn't help, but the true problem is Nintendo's own games. Various third parties have complained in the past of being unable to compete with Nintendo's own titles. When it's the time of the big game rush in November, Nintendo also has their top games out and others just can't compete, so developers don't bother.

[Kaepora_Gaebora]

Ok, the Wii U has sold very poorly. But it's like we forget Nintendo's last home console sold over 100 million units world wide!

 

No need to panic just yet

[Serebii]

Ok, the Wii U has sold very poorly. But it's like we forget Nintendo's last home console sold over 100 million units world wide!

 

No need to panic just yet

Nintendo just have to weather through the Wii U, making a small but tidy profit through the generation and then BAM...knock it out of the park in 2015/2016 with new hardware

[Andyliini]

Ok, the Wii U has sold very poorly. But it's like we forget Nintendo's last home console sold over 100 million units world wide!

 

No need to panic just yet

 

This, but as much as I have read some boards and forums over Internet people are actually believing so. Then again, they also said the same think during the Wii-period so it seems like people do not have a thing called common sense these days.

[Hero-of-Time]

Nintendo just have to weather through the Wii U, making a small but tidy profit through the generation and then BAM...knock it out of the park in 2015/2016 with new hardware

 

The big question is whether they have the ability to make another super successful console. The Wii was an anomaly in that it bucked the trend of the declining console sales for Nintendo. They need that hook to get the expanded audience otherwise we will continue to see the sales figures we have seen in the past.

 

Look what happened to Sega, the quality of their games plummeted when they went 3rd-party.

 

But let's the quality stayed the same. Would it still rub people the wrong way playing them on a different machine?

[Sheikah]

Look what happened to Sega, the quality of their games plummeted when they went 3rd-party.

 

This always gets mentioned as if this singular event that occurred would happen to any other company that went the same way, EVERY TIME. Depsite Nintendo not being in anywhere near the same situation as what Sega was when they went multiformat.

 

Nintendo releasing their titles on consoles that many more people own is better than releasing their titles on a console that hardly anyone has bought.

[Serebii]

The big question is whether they have the ability to make another super successful console. The Wii was an anomaly in that it bucked the trend of the declining console sales for Nintendo. They need that hook to get the expanded audience otherwise we will continue to see the sales figures we have seen in the past.

 

 

 

But let's the quality stayed the same. Would it still rub people the wrong way playing them on a different machine?

If they were somehow able to moneyhat Call of Duty...

 

This always gets mentioned as if this singular event that occurred would happen to any other company that went the same way, EVERY TIME. Depsite Nintendo not being in anywhere near the same situation as what Sega was when they went multiformat.

 

Nintendo releasing their titles on consoles that many more people own is better than releasing their titles on a console that hardly anyone has bought.

 

People said that about Sega, too.

 

To go third party, they'd need to significantly downsize. They'd be relying solely on their software so rather than 1 2D Mario, 1 3D Mario, 1 Mario Kart etc. per console, they'd have to become annualised to stay afloat, with the occasional Zelda, Pokémon and Smash Bros to fill in the gaps. The necessary downsizing would reduce their staff too making these even harder to do. We'd never see the smaller, more niche titles like Pikmin, Wonderful 101, Starfox, Kid Icarus, Metroid, Chibi Robo, Seaman, Steel Diver etc. ever again. Quality would drop and they would likely be bankrupt within 5 years.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Serebii

[Hero-of-Time]

If they were somehow able to moneyhat Call of Duty...

 

The meltdowns would be glorious. Seeing as the series is on the decline, it may not be a good idea.

[Sheikah]

Nintendo will never have third party support. People like to think it's because of Nintendo's choices in hardware, and on some levels, it certainly didn't help, but the true problem is Nintendo's own games. Various third parties have complained in the past of being unable to compete with Nintendo's own titles. When it's the time of the big game rush in November, Nintendo also has their top games out and others just can't compete, so developers don't bother.

 

That literally makes no sense. People are already buying third party games on systems like the PS3/360. If Nintendo games were so good that people bought them instead of the third party 'competition' (which I don't really understand as nearly all multiformat games are very different/non competing with Nintendo's type of games) then you would see people spending their limited funds on Nintendo games and not COD/GTA on other consoles.

 

It would make no difference if the third party games were released on Wii U or the PS3 at the end of the day. If there was a really cool Nintendo game people wanted, and a cool multiformat game that was on Wii U and PS3, it doesn't make sense for them to opt to buy the Nintendo game on the Wii U, then buy the multiformat game but not on the Wii U.

 

If they were somehow able to moneyhat Call of Duty...

 

 

 

People said that about Sega, too.

 

To go third party, they'd need to significantly downsize. They'd be relying solely on their software so rather than 1 2D Mario, 1 3D Mario, 1 Mario Kart etc. per console, they'd have to become annualised to stay afloat, with the occasional Zelda, Pokémon and Smash Bros to fill in the gaps. The necessary downsizing would reduce their staff too making these even harder to do. We'd never see the smaller, more niche titles like Pikmin, Wonderful 101, Starfox, Kid Icarus, Metroid, Chibi Robo, Seaman, Steel Diver etc. ever again. Quality would drop and they would likely be bankrupt within 5 years.

 

Of course, they'd need to downsize their hardware manufacturing side of things, which is certainly no great loss. They'd need to downsize their team responsible for designing the OS and networking features. Again, no great loss.

 

If anything they could focus more on delivering great games.

[Dcubed]

Making a Steam Box would open Nintendo games up for being played on PC and other devices which would essentially make them a third party.

 

You also listed several VERY big problems that would destroy Nintendo. First is not getting royalties from third party games and second is the fact it'd cost like $500. People wouldn't pay that. It would put Nintendo in a far worse position.

 

Nintendo will never have third party support. People like to think it's because of Nintendo's choices in hardware, and on some levels, it certainly didn't help, but the true problem is Nintendo's own games. Various third parties have complained in the past of being unable to compete with Nintendo's own titles. When it's the time of the big game rush in November, Nintendo also has their top games out and others just can't compete, so developers don't bother.

 

The Wii U hardware would be entirely separate from the PC parts, so the games wouldn't be playable on PC (it would literally be a PC bolted onto Wii U hardware). And the price is something that isn't unprecedented - Xbone currently sells for $500 and had no issue exploding out of the gate. Nintendo would be selling this at a profit and the prices would come down quickly over time as these would be high volume parts (since they're off the shelf PC parts).

 

This is a way they could have a model with full support from most developers and a cheaper model (the current Wii U) that only plays Nintendo games. It's also relatively low risk as it wouldn't require Nintendo to alter their current Wii U game development plans. If it doesn't succeed, dump it and just carry on with the Wii U like nothing happened.

[Serebii]

The meltdowns would be glorious. Seeing as the series is on the decline, it may not be a good idea.

 

It may make me a sadist, but I'd love CoD or GTA to be moneyhatted for that reason alone :p

 

That literally makes no sense. People are already buying third party games on systems like the PS3/360. If Nintendo games were so good that people bought them instead of the third party 'competition' (which I don't really understand as nearly all multiformat games are very different/non competing with Nintendo's type of games) then you would see people spending their limited funds on Nintendo games and not COD/GTA on other consoles.

 

It would make no difference if the third party games were released on Wii U or the PS3 at the end of the day. If there was a really cool Nintendo game people wanted, and a cool multiformat game that was on Wii U and PS3, it doesn't make sense for them to opt to buy the Nintendo game on the Wii U, then buy the multiformat game but not on the Wii U.

 

 

 

Of course, they'd need to downsize their hardware manufacturing side of things, which is certainly no great loss. They'd need to downsize their team responsible for designing the OS and networking features. Again, no great loss.

 

If anything they could focus more on delivering great games.

I'm just going on what I've seen. Third party developers have complained about being unable to compete with Nintendo's own titles on Nintendo hardware. This is a fact. It has happened, they have complained.

 

The Wii U hardware would be entirely separate from the PC parts, so the games wouldn't be playable on PC (it would literally be a PC bolted onto Wii U hardware). And the price is something that isn't unprecedented - Xbone currently sells for $500 and had no issue exploding out of the gate. Nintendo would be selling this at a profit and the prices would come down quickly over time as these would be high volume parts (since they're off the shelf PC parts).

 

This is a way they could have a model with full support from most developers and a cheaper model (the current Wii U) that only plays Nintendo games. It's also relatively low risk as it wouldn't require Nintendo to alter their current Wii U game development plans. If it doesn't succeed, dump it and just carry on with the Wii U like nothing happened.

I just don't see it. The only way Nintendo can get a beachhead in the marketplace is to go for the cheaper route, not the more expensive route.

[Dcubed]

I just don't see it. The only way Nintendo can get a beachhead in the marketplace is to go for the cheaper route, not the more expensive route.

 

Nintendo is currently stuck unable to appeal to either end of the market. The casual audience currently seems uninterested, while the "hardcore" set of the market sees the Nintendo brand as utterly toxic - to the point that they would refuse to buy it, even if it did have GTA.

 

Doing this (and removing the "Nintendo" branding from the box) would give them a place in the market however; while Nintendo fans would finally be given a steady stream of software. Meanwhile, they can continue with their lower priced Wii U system and try to win back that casual audience.

 

It's all branding in the end, but it gives them a position at both ends of the market (staying out of the un-winnable middle).

[Mr_Master_X2]

It's bizarre really. Even if sales picked up, games would have to be put into development and they'd be a while and not worth it. BUT...that's the same situation Xone/PS4 are in. Yet they chose to support them, but not Wii U (other than cheap ports of OLD games, shovelware etc.). Face it, Wii U was deliberately shunned, just like the Wii. Just like Cube was... etc. Third party developers HATE Nintendo. Most (like rabid fans of other consoles) see Nintendo as kiddy, which isn't true. Nintendo's image is just "family-friendly", plenty of violent game end up on Nintendo consoles, it's up to 3rd party developers to just release them WITH THE OTHER CONSOLE VERSIONS OF THE GAME. Not months/years later, with gimped options. 3rd party developers have a self-fulfilling prophecy going on in regards to developing for Nintendo. Why put effort in if it will fail? EQUALS: crappy late ports/shovelware EQUALS: low sales EQUALS: developers don't bother.

 

I don't doubt for one minute if 3rd party developers had announced lots of the kind of stuff they release of sony/microsoft, that hype would have picked up enough for those sort of gamers to buy Wii Us. At the moment the only people supporting Wii U are the core Nintendo fans (not even casuals are supporting like they did with Wii. Do casuals even know Wii U Fit is out...?).

 

Look what happened to Sega, the quality of their games plummeted when they went 3rd-party.

 

I think the same will happen to Nintendo, as they would have to lay off much of their staff and "go small" in the way of Sega. That's the only thing I can think of. I see no way Nintendo keeping their quality on different consoles.

 

It's because, when you're the console maker too, making the game is about "selling your console" thus more time/effort/money. When it's just the software, it's just about making enough profit.

[Clownferret]

People seem to forget just how profitable Nintendo are. If you look at Wii U in isolation it's grim. But if you look at overall hardware sales Nintendo wins hands down against Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo's AAA titles are always amongst the biggest selling games of the generation.

 

I think next time out Nintendo should release a console that is in effect a home console and a portable system in one. The game pad is almost that already. Every time Nintendo release a handheld it's based on the previous home console anyway, so it's logical that the "4DS" will be a Wii U under the bonnet that you can plug in to a tv or just carry around.

[peterl0]

Of course, they'd need to downsize their hardware manufacturing side of things, which is certainly no great loss. They'd need to downsize their team responsible for designing the OS and networking features. Again, no great loss.

 

If anything they could focus more on delivering great games.

 

I think it would be a great loss to lose the hardware side of the business. They may be awful at the operating systems/networking and perhaps there is an element of the hardware that is contributing towards that but I like the fact they produce small/sleek consoles with great controllers.

 

I do think though that the games they make are tied to the systems they make them on and to remove the hardware element would diminish the games as well.

 

Perhaps the best future could be to merge the hand held and main consoles into a single device that can stream to the TV using something similar to Chromecast. Then people can only buy the handheld version of the Nintendo console and still have their PS4/XBONE.

[Sheikah]

I don't think their controllers have been very good since the gamecube days.