Cube Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 So did Sonic Lost World, does that mean you won't give the next Sonic game a look. I'd give the next Sonic game a look because Lost World was great. Also, Creative Assembly don't have a great recent track record either. Not in terms of quality, but because Total War: Rome 2 was far from complete when it was released.
Mokong Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 Another multi-platform/generation game that will be missing a Wii U version [tweet]420718994174124033[/tweet] and before anyone says it's not a big loss because of Colonial Marines, this game is by a different team and is an incredible looking survival horror... http://www.n-europe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54064 Well that's a disappointment... especially given Sega seem to have a good relationship with Nintendo lately. Ah well, as long as Gearbox have nothing to do with this I wish it all the best, looks stunning and going down the survival horror route is great. Maybe we'll get lucky and it'll get a late port to Wii U... I'm still wanting to use the Gamepad as a Motion Tracker
Ashley Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 Alien Isolation does look incredible in terms of atmosphere. Looking forward to it. RE: Nintendo and indies. They do seem to be trying, but often its a catch-up job. The ~18 titles they announced a while ago was great, except when you realise 17 of them had existed elsewhere.
Zechs Merquise Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 Alien Isolation does look incredible in terms of atmosphere. Looking forward to it. RE: Nintendo and indies. They do seem to be trying, but often its a catch-up job. The ~18 titles they announced a while ago was great, except when you realise 17 of them had existed elsewhere. Er... I remember another Aliens game looking incredible. That turned out well didn't it? Obviously I'd rather the game was coming to Wii U than not to Wii U, but I am finding it increasingly difficult to get hyped for games based on bullshots and scripted trailers which obviously will make the game look amazing!
Ashley Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 Er... I remember another Aliens game looking incredible. That turned out well didn't it? What happened to innocent until proven guilty? It's by another studio for one thing. It may turn out to be pants, but so far it looks incredible. And the only thing I've seen of it is the IGN breakdown thing that's about 30 minutes long based on a demo they played, so its not really a scripted trailer.
Sheikah Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 My main point is this: 1) Companies don't turn down "money on the table" 2) 5 million users surely constitutes "money on the table". 3) There appear to be plenty of Wii U owners (presumably?) who would like those 3rd party developers to be supporting the Wii U. 4) Nintendo home consoles consistently turn out top sellers. Some points on that: - A lot of the small pool of existing Wii U owners aren't even buying the games (e.g. NSM3DW). And that was a Nintendo game. So really, if you're a third party dev, it's hardly encouraging news. - Many Wii / Wii U owners interested in third party games end up getting a competitor console also, so multiformat games reaching Nintendo consoles isn't such a big deal to them. - A console that people aren't buying because they don't want is not a lucrative 'money on the table' business opportunity. Ca'maan. No way. And it's out-spec'd by the other consoles - future titles will require extra work to produce a separate nerfed Wii U version, as well as potentially extra effort screwing around with gamepad support. Which means even less chance of multiformat games reaching the Wii U.
Clownferret Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 The reason 3rd party software struggles on Nintendo platforms is: 1: They copy Nintendo games because Nintendo games sell so well. The flaw here is why would you buy Rayman when you can buy Mario. 2: They assume everybody who plays Nintendo consoles are 7 and therefore release dumbed down ports. My son is 7 and he knows all to well the differences between COD on 360 and COD on the Wii. It's such a retarded assumption and even if it was true, these 7 year old are clued up. Sadly, this gen this has been rectified, but i fear it's too far ingrained in gaming folklore now. Following on from the recent discussion on here, my boy wants an xbox because his best friend at school has one. After much discussion as to why the Wii U was a much better console for the family we did a little test. Out of the 17 Wii U games we own, half of them are available on Xbox. The other half are only available on Wii U. He has FIFA, COD, Batman, Assassins Creed IV, Need for Speed etc. So whilst we may miss out on a Halo or GTA it pales in comparison to what we would miss out on if it was the other way round. Does anybody know when 90's arcade racer is coming out?
Zechs Merquise Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) What happened to innocent until proven guilty? It's by another studio for one thing. It may turn out to be pants, but so far it looks incredible. And the only thing I've seen of it is the IGN breakdown thing that's about 30 minutes long based on a demo they played, so its not really a scripted trailer. Innocent until proven guilty is true! However I remember another Aliens game having an awesome 'demo' that everyone creamed their pants over. All I'm saying is be cautious. No wonder there are so many crash and burn disappointments in this industry! EDIT: After watching the trailer, it looked awfully reminiscent of the opening sections of Doom 3. The opening sections of Doom 3 were amazing and highly atmospheric, especially getting all the information from scattered PDAs rather than NPCs or a flashy intro. However as the game progressed it ran out of steam and became a regular (albeit very pretty and atmospheric) shooter. Edited January 8, 2014 by Zechs Merquise
Sheikah Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 The reason 3rd party software struggles on Nintendo platforms is: 1: They copy Nintendo games because Nintendo games sell so well. The flaw here is why would you buy Rayman when you can buy Mario. Because it's a better game? Following on from the recent discussion on here, my boy wants an xbox because his best friend at school has one. After much discussion as to why the Wii U was a much better console for the family we did a little test. Out of the 17 Wii U games we own, half of them are available on Xbox. The other half are only available on Wii U. He has FIFA, COD, Batman, Assassins Creed IV, Need for Speed etc. So whilst we may miss out on a Halo or GTA it pales in comparison to what we would miss out on if it was the other way round. Does anybody know when 90's arcade racer is coming out? Did you also tell him that any future sequels to those games he loves have a cat in hell's chance of coming to the Wii U, and that had he been gaming years ago he could have played most of these games way before they even hit the Wii U? It sounds to me that you live too much in the moment. "The Wii U has all these games that the last gen consoles have! It's better!" - Yeah, ok, but what about the near future? Your test is also incredibly skewed given you only have the Wii U. If you had, say, a Wii U and a PS3, as well as the top 10 rated games on each console, I very much doubt the Wii U would come out on top as having more exclusive games. Also poor kid. Can't play with his friends now. :p
liger05 Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) 1: They copy Nintendo games because Nintendo games sell so well. The flaw here is why would you buy Rayman when you can buy Mario. So any 2D platformer is trying to be Mario? Care to explain what Nintendo game Assassins Creed is trying to copy? How about COD? Need for Speed? Batman? Fifa? Madden? Shall I go on. Please do tell us what Nintendo games these third parties are trying to copy? 2: They assume everybody who plays Nintendo consoles are 7 and therefore release dumbed down ports. My son is 7 and he knows all to well the differences between COD on 360 and COD on the Wii. It's such a retarded assumption and even if it was true, these 7 year old are clued up. Sadly, this gen this has been rectified, but i fear it's too far ingrained in gaming folklore now. Nintendo themselves paint a picture of a console kids. The adverts usually involve kids and again please do list the adult themed games nintendo has published on the wii u? Give us some games which would be targetting an 18 - 34 year old male demographic? How about the games that seem to have tutorial after tutorial after tutorial treating us like we are stupid instead of us using trial and error. How about the Gamecube which they decided to colour purple which simply made it look like Barny the dionsaurs launch box. The whole 'Nintendo is for Kids' isnt fair but its not the fault of third parties. Edited January 8, 2014 by liger05
Josh64 Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 I don't see why we're always so optimistic about third-parties before a console release - This always happens. When Iwata and Reggie were banging on about great third-party support for Wii U I knew it was bullshit. We've heard it before with the GameCube, then the Wii and once again, we're somehow surprised. If Nintendo couldn't get third parties on board with one of the best selling consoles of all time, then they sure as hell aren't going to do it with the Wii U. I think you just have to accept that you buy a Nintendo console for Nintendo games and then get an Xbox/PlayStation for the third parties. It's been this way since the N64 and Nintendo being Nintendo, it isn't going to change. I could change 'Wii U' to 'GameCube' in every post in this thread and it would look exactly like the GameCube general discussion from Cube-Europe (though the GameCube wasn't quite as doomed :P) and I'd wager that I could come back on here in 10 years and everyone will be having the same conversation about third-parties on the Nintendo WiiUO2Lite Or y'know, this will be Game-Europe and we'll be talking about Nintendo being a great third-party developer - I went there :p
liger05 Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 I don't see why we're always so optimistic about third-parties before a console release - This always happens. When Iwata and Reggie were banging on about great third-party support for Wii U I knew it was bullshit. We've heard it before with the GameCube, then the Wii and once again, we're somehow surprised. If Nintendo couldn't get third parties on board with one of the best selling consoles of all time, then they sure as hell aren't going to do it with the Wii U. I think you just have to accept that you buy a Nintendo console for Nintendo games and then get an Xbox/PlayStation for the third parties. It's been this way since the N64 and Nintendo being Nintendo, it isn't going to change. I could change 'Wii U' to 'GameCube' in every post in this thread and it would look exactly like the GameCube general discussion from Cube-Europe (though the GameCube wasn't quite as doomed :P) and I'd wager that I could come back on here in 10 years and everyone will be having the same conversation about third-parties on the Nintendo WiiUO2Lite Or y'know, this will be Game-Europe and we'll be talking about Nintendo being a great third-party developer - I went there :p The Gamecube got good third party support in its first year. It got all the multi plats and capcom supported the platform just the console didn't sell so can't really blame third parties bailing. Nintendo made plenty of money on the Wii from third parties simply cos there was plenty of third party games released just so much of it was shovelware trying to capitalise on the expanded casual audience. As for the more core gamer experience what option did third parties have? They were developing games for 360/PS3 and the wii was severely underpowered to those. It's not like they could just port games to the wii. The only people who can change the relationship between third parties and Nintendo is Nintendo. If Nintendo carry on the same path then yes in 10 years it will be the same but I don't think that will happen. Nintendo will see change after what's happened with the wii u.
Serebii Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 The only way Nintendo will ever get third party support is if MS and Sony somehow drop out and nobody replaces them. That's the only way.
Retro_Link Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 EDIT: After watching the trailer,Then watch the IGN gameplay walkthrough, you'll come away impressed. I don't see why we're always so optimistic about third-parties before a console release - This always happens. When Iwata and Reggie were banging on about great third-party support for Wii U I knew it was bullshit. We've heard it before with the GameCube, then the Wii and once again, we're somehow surprised. I could change 'Wii U' to 'GameCube' in every post in this thread and it would look exactly like the GameCube general discussion from Cube-Europe (though the GameCube wasn't quite as doomed :P) and I'd wager that I could come back on here in 10 years and everyone will be having the same conversation about third-parties on the Nintendo WiiUO2Lite I think with the Wii U a lot of people presumed that Nintendo's third party relationship has been so bad for so long that at some point it had to improve?... new console, new hope... well that and the fact Reggie bullshitted us during the Wii U reveal that the Wii U was going to be the all encompassing console. A lot of people are saying atm that the situation is the same between the Gamecube and the Wii U... however, the Gamecube ar least got some incredible third party exclusive to fill in the gaps. Right now it's looking like the Wii U wont even get this.
Clownferret Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 Because it's a better game? Did you also tell him that any future sequels to those games he loves have a cat in hell's chance of coming to the Wii U, and that had he been gaming years ago he could have played most of these games way before they even hit the Wii U? It sounds to me that you live too much in the moment. "The Wii U has all these games that the last gen consoles have! It's better!" - Yeah, ok, but what about the near future? Your test is also incredibly skewed given you only have the Wii U. If you had, say, a Wii U and a PS3, as well as the top 10 rated games on each console, I very much doubt the Wii U would come out on top as having more exclusive games. Also poor kid. Can't play with his friends now. :p exactly the same for PS4 & XB1, FIFA 14, Ghosts, Battlefield etc not on current gen no?
Goron_3 Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 exactly the same for PS4 & XB1, FIFA 14, Ghosts, Battlefield etc not on current gen no? But the PS4 and XB1 are future proof, which is pretty important from what I'm told.
Sheikah Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) exactly the same for PS4 & XB1, FIFA 14, Ghosts, Battlefield etc not on current gen no? Actually not really, I'm sure those two consoles will still be supported for at least a couple of years (unlike the Wii U which has lost almost all of its support already). The PS3 and 360 still shift loads of copies of games - they will NOT lose their new titles any time soon. Plus those consoles are last generation and have a vast library of great games to make up for them being in the last few years of life (as well as the systems and their games being dirt cheap). Wii U is the current generation so there's no real excuse for it. Edited January 8, 2014 by Sheikah
Clownferret Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 So any 2D platformer is trying to be Mario? Care to explain what Nintendo game Assassins Creed is trying to copy? How about COD? Need for Speed? Batman? Fifa? Madden? Shall I go on. Please do tell us what Nintendo games these third parties are trying to copy? Nintendo themselves paint a picture of a console kids. The adverts usually involve kids and again please do list the adult themed games nintendo has published on the wii u? Give us some games which would be targetting an 18 - 34 year old male demographic? How about the games that seem to have tutorial after tutorial after tutorial treating us like we are stupid instead of us using trial and error. How about the Gamecube which they decided to colour purple which simply made it look like Barny the dionsaurs launch box. The whole 'Nintendo is for Kids' isnt fair but its not the fault of third parties. Obviously AC isn't a copy. Did you even read my post? My point 1 was the countless platformer, kart, party etc games. Point 2 refers to multi platform releases that historically have been watered down versions. This gen they are not, but the mindset is set in stone. As for listing adult games, you just listed a load yourself. I'm not blaming the 3rd parties for Nintendo's reputation, I'm saying poor sales are their own fault for releasing child friendly versions of their games. Do you even own a Wii U?
liger05 Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Obviously AC isn't a copy. Did you even read my post? My point 1 was the countless platformer, kart, party etc games.Point 2 refers to multi platform releases that historically have been watered down versions. This gen they are not, but the mindset is set in stone. As for listing adult games, you just listed a load yourself. I'm not blaming the 3rd parties for Nintendo's reputation, I'm saying poor sales are their own fault for releasing child friendly versions of their games. Do you even own a Wii U? I didnt list any Nintendo adult themed games at all. Yes I have a Wii U but I'm not even sure how that's relevant to the discussion. Countless kart and countless platformers? How many we talking about here? Believe it or not the kart racing and platform genre of game are not exclusive to Nintendo and more choice is better. Your point was third parties try and copy Nintendo games and that's why the suffer. I don't see this imitation you talk about. The only way Nintendo will ever get third party support is if MS and Sony somehow drop out and nobody replaces them. That's the only way. See that defeatist attitude from Iwata rubs off on some. Edited January 8, 2014 by liger05
Pestneb Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 Some points on that: - A lot of the small pool of existing Wii U owners aren't even buying the games (e.g. NSM3DW). And that was a Nintendo game. So really, if you're a third party dev, it's hardly encouraging news. - Many Wii / Wii U owners interested in third party games end up getting a competitor console also, so multiformat games reaching Nintendo consoles isn't such a big deal to them. - A console that people aren't buying because they don't want is not a lucrative 'money on the table' business opportunity. Ca'maan. No way. And it's out-spec'd by the other consoles - future titles will require extra work to produce a separate nerfed Wii U version, as well as potentially extra effort screwing around with gamepad support. Which means even less chance of multiformat games reaching the Wii U. 1) Actually, last sales data I saw on 3dw was pretty good, a month after release it sold in the region of 250k (in a week). for a console with about 5 million owners, 5% in a week isn't bad going, best sellers tend to reach 20-30% saturation in their lifetime. currently 3dw has about 28% console saturation. to put that in context, that beats the average saturation for a number one seller on a sony console, and is about the saturation acheived on xbox's and nintendo consoles, based on the last couple of generations. 3dw had a slow first week, but its not slowed down. 2) Yes, exactly. Why bother putting in thousands in development to reach an audience, when that audience can spend thousands reaching you? Just aim for the audience/s that won't migrate to other platforms. I would guess about 1 million Wii U owners would buy these 3rd party titles. Of that segment I would be surprised if more than 100k didn't own a PS4 or xone. 3) the statistical argument - and the one that counts for 3rd parties. How many people want this game? How much will it cost to port this game to platform x. I imagine it would be profitable, but if they can make £0.10 from every hours work, or £1 from creating a new game, I can see what choice they would make if they are led by the bottom line. But this works for Nintendo too. look at the cube and RE4, I don't think that worked out for anyone.
Sheikah Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) The thing is though, Nintendo have little else other than Nintendo games on their console and you'd expect this to be the one game that lots of Wii U owners wanted to get hold of when it came out - a must have system seller, somewhat akin the 'GTA' of the console. Except it wasn't, and here at least initially bested in sales by Knack. Yes, it went on to sell reasonably, but it sure doesn't help the dev perception that neither the console nor its games are faring well. Edited January 8, 2014 by Sheikah
Pestneb Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 A lot of people are saying atm that the situation is the same between the Gamecube and the Wii U... however, the Gamecube ar least got some incredible third party exclusive to fill in the gaps. Right now it's looking like the Wii U wont even get this. They have eshop, and to a greater extent, if that support falls, vc.
Josh64 Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 Yeah they do have the VC, it's a shame they are fucking it up so much. Everything is over priced and there's barely anything. We get weird and completely random NES/SNES games that hardly anyone wants or the same crap that we always get. EarthBound was a refreshing break from the usual, so I hope we get more bold moves like that. If they really pushed the VC, that'd be something. Reduce the prices for a start, then get a healthy dose of N64 titles on there (and classic SNES titles like the DKC trilogy) and then for a final blow, GET GAMECUBE GAMES ON THERE! EDIT: But considering I waited 7 years and still didn't get Diddy Kong Racing or DK64 on Wii, I'm not holding my breath. Also, paying to update your Wii purchase to a Wii U VC game? What's up with that?
liger05 Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 Call of Duty: Ghosts - 0.33% on wii u - Roughly 20K sold on Wii U opening month Assassin's Creed 4 - 1% on wii u- Roughly 6K sold on Wii U opening month Batman: Arkham Origins - 1.8% on wii u - Roughly 11K sold on Wii U opening month Now I would hope people at Nintendo HQ look at this and ask themselves 'why does our install base not buy major third party releases? They should really look at this and try communicating with the wii u owners and ask the question.
Serebii Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 Yeah they do have the VC, it's a shame they are fucking it up so much. Everything is over priced and there's barely anything. We get weird and completely random NES/SNES games that hardly anyone wants or the same crap that we always get. EarthBound was a refreshing break from the usual, so I hope we get more bold moves like that. If they really pushed the VC, that'd be something. Reduce the prices for a start, then get a healthy dose of N64 titles on there (and classic SNES titles like the DKC trilogy) and then for a final blow, GET GAMECUBE GAMES ON THERE! EDIT: But considering I waited 7 years and still didn't get Diddy Kong Racing or DK64 on Wii, I'm not holding my breath. Also, paying to update your Wii purchase to a Wii U VC game? What's up with that? Well, I can explain the latter. Each Virtual Console game is run on its own emulator which is fine tuned so the game works perfectly on the hardware. As such, for a game to be on the Wii U, it has to be recoded with the emulator recoded so they have to do some work to do it and I guess they still want to be paid for the work so it's not just a drain in their financials. I agree it shouldn't exist and that Virtual Console games should be cheaper (just by like £1...let's not get ridiculous and turn into the iOS argument "lolz it should be 99p"), but I can see why it does exist.
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