Agent Gibbs Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 I think the only way is to do a real cut price SKU with no game pad, it would mean some UI redesign and rejigging of boxes to show gamepad required games, but its doable I have honestly grown to think that originally it should have launched with a different name, the Wiimote/Nunchuck and/or the pro pad as its man controller and with second screen gaming provided by an optional gamepad AND the 3DS, the saved money could have been used to reduce the cost or increase horsepower I love my WiiU, i get the ethos...but the masses don't due to many varying problems, but its too underpowered compared to the PS4/Xbone - i think Nintendo really were caught off guard and thought they'd release lower spec consoles, so parity would be closer
Goron_3 Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 It's worth noting that Nintendo can't actually get rid of the gamepad anytime soon; they been producing Wii U for the last year and as sales have been terrible they've likely got 4-5 million Wii U's waiting to be sent to retailers...
Serebii Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 http://techland.time.com/2014/01/23/nintendo-like-apple-needs-to-control-the-experience-from-nuts-to-bolts-to-keep-being-nintendo/ Another positive article. Glad to see not everyone is calling doom
Pestneb Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 I love my WiiU, i get the ethos...but the masses don't due to many varying problems, but its too underpowered compared to the PS4/Xbone - i think Nintendo really were caught off guard and thought they'd release lower spec consoles, so parity would be closer Yeah. Thing is it's a case of diminishing returns now, to make a noticeable jump the specs had to be beefed up too. I think Nintendo would have been smarter not to focus on the small form so much, and forget the energy consumption thing (I like low energy consumption, but it won't sway me when it comes to which console to purchase) A bigger Wii U would have looked more like a beefed up Wii too, rather than a variant Wii like the Wii mini or something like that
S.C.G Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 *sigh* They don't need to get rid of the Gamepad really, it's as if people are saying that it's as useless as Kinect 2.0 with the Xbox One which is simply not the case... :p in the case of XB1 I really don't see any advantages to Kinect 2.0 as even though it might be more accurate, it's still essentially doing the same things that no one really seemed to be that bothered about in the first place. With the gamepad however, only recently I have been enjoying The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker not only in stunning HD for the first time but with the map right in front of me on a separate screen which I can interact with at a moments notice or just look down briefly for reference, maybe swap out an inventory item or two all instantly while I'm still free to use the Pro Controller which I use for most games. Even in that above example the gamepad is still an essential part of the experience to me and I'm sure many others, to other games it is integral to the experience within games such as Zombi U, Nintendoland, Lego City plus The Wonderful 101 for the most-part. The solution is not simply to 'get rid of it' but for Nintendo to embrace it more in other games soon after the release of Mario Kart 8/Super Smash Bros U - as these are games which will 'use' it but not integrally - with more original titles but in the short-term at least reduce the price to a much more reasonable - in the eyes of the general consumer - price of between £179.99 - £199.99 with a new games that people will buy the system for. Now it's over to Nintendo who at least in business terms need to 'stand and deliver' else it could be a choice between losing a bit of money in the short-term or what could be one of their last lives... we all know which they have a more ready, stock-piled supply of. I certainly wouldn't count them out though, not ever... I still want and expect them to be around in another decade when surely another golden age will be upon us, perhaps we'll all look back at this moment wondering what all the fuss was about, perhaps not but Nintendo has to survive somehow as otherwise the games industry won't be worth investing in any more; at least not for me anyway. : peace:
Serebii Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) *sigh* They don't need to get rid of the Gamepad really, it's as if people are saying that it's as useless as Kinect 2.0 with the Xbox One which is simply not the case... :p in the case of XB1 I really don't see any advantages to Kinect 2.0 as even though it might be more accurate, it's still essentially doing the same things that no one really seemed to be that bothered about in the first place. With the gamepad however, only recently I have been enjoying The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker not only in stunning HD for the first time but with the map right in front of me on a separate screen which I can interact with at a moments notice or just look down briefly for reference, maybe swap out an inventory item or two all instantly while I'm still free to use the Pro Controller which I use for most games. Even in that above example the gamepad is still an essential part of the experience to me and I'm sure many others, to other games it is integral to the experience within games such as Zombi U, Nintendoland, Lego City plus The Wonderful 101 for the most-part. The solution is not simply to 'get rid of it' but for Nintendo to embrace it more in other games soon after the release of Mario Kart 8/Super Smash Bros U - as these are games which will 'use' it but not integrally - with more original titles but in the short-term at least reduce the price to a much more reasonable - in the eyes of the general consumer - price of between £179.99 - £199.99 with a new games that people will buy the system for. Now it's over to Nintendo who at least in business terms need to 'stand and deliver' else it could be a choice between losing a bit of money in the short-term or what could be one of their last lives... we all know which they have a more ready, stock-piled supply of. I certainly wouldn't count them out though, not ever... I still want and expect them to be around in another decade when surely another golden age will be upon us, perhaps we'll all look back at this moment wondering what all the fuss was about, perhaps not but Nintendo has to survive somehow as otherwise the games industry won't be worth investing in any more; at least not for me anyway. : peace: I completely agree that they shouldn't remove it. However, the issue is that the GamePad is something that most people just don't get until they get their hands on it. Anecdotal but many of my friends were sceptical about it, despite previously being Nintendo fans, and had no intention of getting the Wii U because of it. Then they tried it out for an hour and went out & bought a Wii U I myself struggle to play games without it, even for just a map and inventory. However, the first issue is a big issue. People just don't get it, so they don't see the value of it. Off TV play was the original intent of the Wii U, and it's great if you only have one/two TVs and you live with your significant other. Maps/Inventory are great, but as people will say, you can just press a button to load them (and take several seconds). People just don't see the point of it, and that's the issue that is putting a lot of people off, especially as it is such a focal point of the console. As such, separating it from the main SKU and selling separately as a peripheral to IMPROVE the games is the only way Nintendo can attempt to get a bigger market with a lower cost console. If they just lopped $100 off the price now, and it took off, it'd do far more damage than the Wii U selling poor-to-moderate amounts (although still higher than the Vita...you don't see people seriously telling Sony to go third party/mobile) Edited January 23, 2014 by Serebii
Sheikah Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Sidelining it is essentially dropping it as it won't be properly supported. Good riddance though, really.
Ashley Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 I completely agree that they shouldn't remove it. However, the issue is that the GamePad is something that most people just don't get until they get their hands on it. Anecdotal but many of my friends were sceptical about it, despite previously being Nintendo fans, and had no intention of getting the Wii U because of it. Then they tried it out for an hour and went out & bought a Wii U Anecdotal but I've played it for many hours and still feel it's unnecessary. Partially because it's seldom used, partially because it's useless. the Wii U selling poor-to-moderate amounts (although still higher than the Vita...you don't see people seriously telling Sony to go third party/mobile) Different purposes, different expectations, different markets. Plus Sony already makes mobile games. And you realise how fanboy shoehorning this into the conversation is, right?
Serebii Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 Different purposes, different expectations, different markets. Plus Sony already makes mobile games. And you realise how fanboy shoehorning this into the conversation is, right? Was just making an observation There is nothing untrue in that statement.
Sheikah Posted January 23, 2014 Posted January 23, 2014 The world doesn't care that the Vita sells poorly when judging Sony. It's a home console world and if your home console is storming it then that's where the main focus lies. That may sound shallow, but that's just how it is. The home console is the platform to show off your best, highest budget games that are inevitably going to be more technically impressive than anything that you can put out on handhelds. Plus Vita and PSP have always been more of a side project for Sony. They have never led in handhelds and nobody expected them to. Even though the PSP did better, it's hardly what Sony are famous for.
Ashley Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 Was just making an observation There is nothing untrue in that statement. I'm not saying there is, but it had nothing to do with the discussion and just makes it sound like you have an axe to grind.
Serebii Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 I'm not saying there is, but it had nothing to do with the discussion and just makes it sound like you have an axe to grind. I do, yes.
Daft Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) (although still higher than the Vita...you don't see people seriously telling Sony to go third party/mobile) No, but there are plenty of people who think Sony shouldn't bother making a handheld at all. And pulling out of that specific market completely is a perfectly reasonable suggestion. That is the comparative question that should be applied to the Wii U and the home console market, not the generalisation you just made. Edited January 24, 2014 by Daft
Kav Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 ...Vita and PSP have always been more of a side project for Sony. They have never led in handhelds and nobody expected them to... No way are they just a "side project" for Sony. Always at E3 they stress their handhelds are important to them and they show them good support/give them decent stage-time. They're great consoles, they've just underperformed (not so much the PSP). Also, I recall nearly everyone in the industry claiming Nintendo's dominance in the handheld market over when Sony announced the PSP. Everyone expected Sony to dominate. #SonyDefenceForce (this is only a joke everyone, don't fret).
Sheikah Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 Yeah they're important for Sony but no one would claim handhelds are their primary focus. When they first entered the handheld market, no matter what people thought would happen it's not like they themselves said they would knock Nintendo off their spot. They were aiming to offer something different - a high spec portable home console, in effect. It's not like 360 vs PS3 where both are directly competing with very similar products. It's a shame the Vita isn't doing better, but let's not compare that situation to the Wii U. Sony's handheld consoles have always been a bit of a niche. Whereas Nintendo have truly toppled in relation to what they used to be.
Serebii Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 Yeah they're important for Sony but no one would claim handhelds are their primary focus. When they first entered the handheld market, no matter what people thought would happen it's not like they themselves said they would knock Nintendo off their spot. They were aiming to offer something different - a high spec portable home console, in effect. It's not like 360 vs PS3 where both are directly competing with very similar products. It's a shame the Vita isn't doing better, but let's not compare that situation to the Wii U. Sony's handheld consoles have always been a bit of a niche. Whereas Nintendo have truly toppled in relation to what they used to be. A bit niche? The PSP sold the same as the PS3. If the PSP is niche, so is the PS3
Kav Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 I'm not saying they're comparable, as home consoles are the main focus of both companies, although with Nintendo it's more equal on each front. Yet there's no way Sony put out the PSP without thinking "we're aiming to topple Nintendo". Like when they decided to go forward with the Playstation, it's been famously said that they decided to go after Nintendo after the way they were treated by them in regards to the "SNES CD Drive".
dazzybee Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 Although I do agree Sony dropping handheld is the equivalent, the slight difference is that Sony have made two handhelds and had two relative failures. PSP sold a lot, but primarily due to piracy didn't it?! Nintendo has just come off having them oat successful console, always been "up there" and even now has the biggest selling current gen console, so not quite the same situations. But saying all that, I actually do agree, and being more devils advocate than anything. I think they should both keeping making home consoles/handhelds.
Daft Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 @Sheikah No major corporation sets out to make a product like the PSP/Vita without wanting it to be a smash hit. The PSP sold 70 million odd units (for reasons that are beyond me) and the PS Vita has dire sales (I can't say I'm surprised, but I will say I'm disappointed).
Sheikah Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 A bit niche? The PSP sold the same as the PS3. If the PSP is niche, so is the PS3 It sold a lot of units (especially in Japan) because it was a hot piece of technology, but yeah, it was niche. You only needed to walk into any game shop to get that. You're also cross comparing generations anyway - compared to the home consoles at the time, it was most certainly niche. Yet there's no way Sony put out the PSP without thinking "we're aiming to topple Nintendo". Like when they decided to go forward with the Playstation, it's been famously said that they decided to go after Nintendo after the way they were treated by them in regards to the "SNES CD Drive". Why would they think that? To think that, they would have to imagine that people would suddenly no longer enjoy Mario or Zelda titles, which would obviously never happen. Put it this way - you say Sony and Nintendo have a rivalry which means they would want to topple each other. But that doesn't mean they completely believe unrealistic things. Sony probably no more thought their PSP would make Nintendo leave the handheld market than Nintendo thought the Wii U would make Sony leave the home console market. Either expectation is just totally unrealistic. @Sheikah No major corporation sets out to make a product like the PSP/Vita without wanting it to be a smash hit. The PSP sold 70 million odd units (for reasons that are beyond me) and the PS Vita has dire sales (I can't say I'm surprised, but I will say I'm disappointed). I'm not saying they wouldn't want it to do better (they do), but it's hardly a surprise and it doesn't really have the same shock as how the Wii U is doing. Sony have never had a handheld that has led the market.
Daft Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 Sony have never had a handheld that has led the market. By that logic, they shouldn't have bothered to make the first Playstation.
Hero-of-Time Posted January 24, 2014 Author Posted January 24, 2014 @Sheikah No major corporation sets out to make a product like the PSP/Vita without wanting it to be a smash hit. The PSP sold 70 million odd units (for reasons that are beyond me) and the PS Vita has dire sales (I can't say I'm surprised, but I will say I'm disappointed). Dat Monster Hunter sales power.
Kav Posted January 24, 2014 Posted January 24, 2014 ...Why would they think that? To think that, they would have to imagine that people would suddenly no longer enjoy Mario or Zelda titles, which would obviously never happen. Put it this way - you say Sony and Nintendo have a rivalry which means they would want to topple each other. But that doesn't mean they completely believe unrealistic things. Sony probably no more thought their PSP would make Nintendo leave the handheld market than Nintendo thought the Wii U would make Sony leave the home console market. Either expectation is just totally unrealistic... I'm not saying they wanted rid of Nintendo, but they no doubt wanted to aim to be the best and sell the most if they could... what's unrealistic about that?! Also, regarding the bolded bit; I only need point you in the direction of people in this forum, never mind elsewhere. There are a fair few people on here that are "tired" with the "same old Zelda formula" and "Mario again"... I'm not one of them but there are plenty on this forum that have said so, there's no denying that!
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