Margaret Thatcher has died.

[Daft]

Thatcher: Westminster's last authentic class warrior

 

Pretty much sums up my feelings on an amazingly myopic and vile politician.

[Agent Gibbs]

interesting article a friend of mine posted on facebook

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/russell-brand-margaret-thatcher?CMP=twt_gu

 

Russell Brands take on it, and not as i'd have expected, i think i echo a lot of his feelings and experiences there.

 

 

You can argue the current financial criss is just as much a product of the capitalist greed based system that Regan and Thatcher perpetuated just as much as it was Labours apathy and lack of oversight, everyone and no one is to blame with that, it was a domino effect of lots of little things that allowed banks to gain power, abandon morals and act knowing they were untouchable

[Mr-Paul]

I read that Brand one earlier, a couple of stand-out quotes that sum up Thatcher for me:

 

It always struck me as peculiar, too, when the Spice Girls briefly championed Thatcher as an early example of girl power. I don't see that. She is an anomaly; a product of the freak-onomy of her time. Barack Obama, interestingly, said in his statement that she had "broken the glass ceiling for other women". Only in the sense that all the women beneath her were blinded by falling shards. She is an icon of individualism, not of feminism.

 

It always irks when rightwing folk demonstrate in a familial or exclusive setting the values that they deny in a broader social context. They're happy to share big windfall bonuses with their cronies, they'll stick up for deposed dictator chums when they're down on their luck, they'll find opportunities in business for people they care about. I hope I'm not being reductive but it seems Thatcher's time in power was solely spent diminishing the resources of those who had least for the advancement of those who had most.

[Agent Gibbs]

I grew up during the Thatcher years, i lived through most of the policies but even i wasn't quite aware of all the actions she took,the article @Daft posted revealed to me she is the one responsible for the deregulation of the press, and was a great friend to Rupert Murdoch, who just about everyone has vilified for the whole press scandal. I also wasn't aware that she actively supported the South African Apartheid Government and opposed sanctions to force them to end the apartheid and campaign of violence, despite the rising death toll.

I remember milk, minors, poll tax etc but not those, i suppose when i was young foreign policy and the press weren't things I'd actively pick up on

 

I think the real thing is that nobody can deny, she was completely detached (as a politician) from the people and the affect her polices and actions had

 

this brand quote had me chuckling though

The Iron Lady, it's the scenes of domesticity that appear most absurd. Knocking up a flan for Denis or helping Carol with her algebra or Mark with his gun-running

[Cookyman]

A hero with complete and utter morons perhaps.

 

A murderer to anyone else.

 

Do I detect a sense of humour failure - opinions are like arseholes - everybodies got one.

 

Someone has written "THE WITCH IS DEAD" on some of the cash machines on Oxford Street. On the same street today a homeless man fought an office worker for his umbrella.

 

I'm not sure which sight made me sadder.

 

 

 

Okay, that completes the trilogy of woe for today. Wow.

 

Cheer up mate - at least your not the homeless man.

[Charlie]

Thatcher: Westminster's last authentic class warrior

 

Pretty much sums up my feelings on an amazingly myopic and vile politician.

 

My problem with that article is not the bias, it isn't the fact that the journalist blames Thatcher for the things that didn't go well but he doesn't give her the credit for the things that did instead saying it was her advisers or that she didn't play a role in it.

 

If you're giving the PM the blame, you also have to give the PM the credit when things go well. The two go hand in hand.

[ipaul]

Do I detect a sense of humour failure - opinions are like arseholes - everybodies got one.

 

Depends how you meant it.

 

If you genuinely dislike Thatcher and were using the exaggeration of your opinions for comic effect then there was no sense of humour failure on my part as that just wasn't funny. Judging from the clichéd simile you've just used I'm willing to bet it's this one.

 

If you couldn't actually care either way and were doing an impersonation of a stereotypical thatcher hater with a sense of irony, then fair enough, that went over my head and in retrospect was fairly amusing.

Edited April 10, 2013 by ipaul

[MoogleViper]

Woah, woah, woah there, I'm going to do a Kanye West and jump in here, sunshine. Please, enlighten us as to how Tony Blair and Gordon Brown caused Lehman Brothers to collapse? I'll give you PFI, sure, but the global financial crisis?

 

Was going to post this as well. Even the war issues aren't entirely Blair.

 

I'd say the biggest issue with Blair was sending everyone to University, and introducing tuition fees.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't like Blair. I don't think he did much good. But he certainly didn't cause the recession. And most of the social issue we're experiencing are a result of thatcher's reign.

 

But then again, Th Sun/Mirror/Mail said it's his fault, and morons will believe whatever they read.

[Serebii]

Was going to post this as well. Even the war issues aren't entirely Blair.

 

I'd say the biggest issue with Blair was sending everyone to University, and introducing tuition fees.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't like Blair. I don't think he did much good. But he certainly didn't cause the recession. And most of the social issue we're experiencing are a result of thatcher's reign.

 

But then again, Th Sun/Mirror/Mail said it's his fault, and morons will believe whatever they read.

I in no way said it was all his fault, but he sure didn't help with constant overspending and poor policies on a variety of issues such as immigration, benefits and so forth.

 

I also resent the statement that I am a moron just because I don't agree with your views.

[MoogleViper]

I in no way said it was all his fault, but he sure didn't help with constant overspending and poor policies on a variety of issues such as immigration, benefits and so forth.

 

I also resent the statement that I am a moron just because I don't agree with your views.

 

I never said, or implied that you were a moron. I merely said that people often blame Blair for things that he didn't do, because the papers tell them to. And those people are morons.

 

Also, the benefits issue is another remnant of Thatcher. She wanted to reduce unemployment figures, so she decided to put most of them on disability. Meaning rather than paying them (modern day figures) ~£70 p/w temporarily, we now pay them ~£100 (and much more including the many other benefits that they're entitles to) permanently.

[Serebii]

I never said, or implied that you were a moron. I merely said that people often blame Blair for things that he didn't do, because the papers tell them to. And those people are morons.

 

Also, the benefits issue is another remnant of Thatcher. She wanted to reduce unemployment figures, so she decided to put most of them on disability. Meaning rather than paying them (modern day figures) ~£70 p/w temporarily, we now pay them ~£100 (and much more including the many other benefits that they're entitles to) permanently.

Yeah but the benefits issue escalated with New Labour. When we're at a point where people come to the country and hook up with benefits, or people get more benefits than many people get for working, then there's clearly a problem

[Cookyman]

Depends how you meant it.

 

If you genuinely dislike Thatcher and were using the exaggeration of your opinions for comic effect then there was no sense of humour failure on my part as that just wasn't funny. Judging from the clichéd simile you've just used I'm willing to bet it's this one.

 

If you couldn't actually care either way and were doing an impersonation of a stereotypical thatcher hater with a sense of irony, then fair enough, that went over my head and in retrospect was fairly amusing.

 

I did genuinely dislike Thatcher and I was in the privelidged position of standing 6 foot from her with a loaded sub machine gun. Obviously I had no intention of killing her but that doesn't make you wonder even for a second "what if?"

 

I'm sorry you couldn't see the funny side of that - but perhaps you see Thatcher as more of a nation al treasure than I do and thats fine.

 

Morrissey had some interesting things to say:

 

Morrissey has released a statement attacking the personality and political beliefs of the late Margaret Thatcher.

 

The singer, 53, said that Baroness Thatcher, who died yesterday from a stroke aged 87, was "barbaric", "hated the arts" and "hated the English poor".

 

The statement said:

 

"Thatcher is remembered as The Iron Lady only because she possessed completely negative traits such as persistent stubbornness and a determined refusal to listen to others.

 

"Every move she made was charged by negativity; she destroyed the British manufacturing industry, she hated the miners, she hated the arts, she hated the Irish Freedom Fighters and allowed them to die, she hated the English poor and did nothing at all to help them, she hated Greenpeace and environmental protectionists, she was the only European political leader who opposed a ban on the Ivory Trade, she had no wit and no warmth and even her own Cabinet booted her out."

 

He went on to criticise Lady Thatcher's role in the British invasion of the Falklands in 1982, and claim that she had impeded the progress of women in politics.

 

"She gave the order to blow up the Belgrano even though it was outside of the Malvinas Exclusion Zone – and was sailing away from the islands.

 

"When the young Argentinian boys aboard The Belgrano had suffered a most appalling and unjust death, Thatcher gave the thumbs up sign for the British press. Iron? No. Barbaric? Yes.

 

"She hated feminists even though it was largely due to the progression of the women's movement that the British people allowed themselves to accept that a Prime Minister could actually be female. But because of Thatcher, there will never again be another woman in power in British politics, and rather than opening that particular door for other women, she closed it."

 

He concluded: "Thatcher will only be fondly remembered by sentimentalists who did not suffer under her leadership, but the majority of British working people have forgotten her already, and the people of Argentina will be celebrating her death.

 

"As a matter of recorded fact, Thatcher was a terror without an atom of humanity."

[MoogleViper]

When we're at a point where people come to the country and hook up with benefits,

 

Less than 5% of foreign born residents claim benefits. That's less than a third the rate for people from the UK.

 

Let the immigrants in. Rather a decent foreigner than a scumbag Brit.

[Serebii]

Less than 5% of foreign born residents claim benefits. That's less than a third the rate for people from the UK.

 

Let the immigrants in. Rather a decent foreigner than a scumbag Brit.

Agreed. I'm all for people immigrating. My nan did, afterall. I just don't like the ones who scrounge off the system, British or otherwise.

[MoogleViper]

Agreed. I'm all for people immigrating. My nan did, afterall. I just don't like the ones who scrounge off the system, British or otherwise.

 

Which is much more of a product of Thatcher than Blair. Thatcher created this mess, not Blair. Sure, he didn't fix it, but he certainly didn't create it.

[ipaul]

I did genuinely dislike Thatcher and I was in the privelidged position of standing 6 foot from her with a loaded sub machine gun. Obviously I had no intention of killing her but that doesn't make you wonder even for a second "what if?"

 

I'm sorry you couldn't see the funny side of that - but perhaps you see Thatcher as more of a nation al treasure than I do and thats fine.

 

 

Hah no I don't like her either, just fancied being a bit of a hardass there. :p

 

 

I like this.

[Blade]

Woah, woah, woah there, I'm going to do a Kanye West and jump in here, sunshine. Please, enlighten us as to how Tony Blair and Gordon Brown caused Lehman Brothers to collapse? I'll give you PFI, sure, but the global financial crisis?

 

Id like to repeat this. Some blame can be attributed to Labour but not everything they did can be attributed to the "mess" the country is now in. All this blame to Labour for the crisis sounds like ConDem spin to me.

 

Infact they are still using the excuse to say why their own policies arent working.

 

Re Thatcher- its not necessary what she did that has upset people its how she did it.

 

Re Labour. I dont think it is the same as when the tories didnt have the chance of winning the election. Labour quite frankly do. The polls have been much more forgiving than they were to the Conservatives after being punished in the 97 election.

 

Labour wasnt even punished that much in the 10 election. Yes they lost but did not lose to a the opposite party. Infact there wasnt even a single governing party.

[Agent Gibbs]

That Gleda Jackson speech was very thought out and well put to the commons, i did find it amusing how MP's were shouting at her etc, but by the end when she pointed out Thatcher did lots to destroy community spirit something the current governement is doing the exact opposite of and trying to improve communities, they all shut up as they realised she was spouting current policy.

 

She said nothing wrong, the speaker confirmed it, she poke on the womans policies and the way she went about fostering them, and how they were done wrong and we shouldn't forget this just because she's dead.

 

this whole not speaking ill of the dead thing can get out of hand sometimes in this country and others, where you basically have to be Hitler to have the bad remembered, otherwise death absolves all sin and anyone who mentions bad things is being disrespectful, which is exactly what going on now in the media, anyone who mentions the negatives about Thatcher is immediately branded a "leftie" and a loonie

[Beast]

That Gleda Jackson speech was very thought out and well put to the commons, i did find it amusing how MP's were shouting at her etc, but by the end when she pointed out Thatcher did lots to destroy community spirit something the current governement is doing the exact opposite of and trying to improve communities, they all shut up as they realised she was spouting current policy.

 

She said nothing wrong, the speaker confirmed it, she poke on the womans policies and the way she went about fostering them, and how they were done wrong and we shouldn't forget this just because she's dead.

 

this whole not speaking ill of the dead thing can get out of hand sometimes in this country and others, where you basically have to be Hitler to have the bad remembered, otherwise death absolves all sin and anyone who mentions bad things is being disrespectful, which is exactly what going on now in the media, anyone who mentions the negatives about Thatcher is immediately branded a "leftie" and a loonie

 

I agree with this. I said that I didn't like the woman and someone told me to not speak ill of the dead and I said "I'm not going to be a hypocrite. I didn't like her when she was alive, why should I like her because she's dead?" and she said "How would you like it?" and I simply said "I don't care. If you loved me, you should love me in death. If you hated me, you should hate me in death. If you agree or disagree with anything I've done or said, you should do the same in death. Your feelings should not change just because I died, I'd say that's even more disrespectful to the dead. It'd be too late to change your mind about me anyway because I'm not going to know, I'm dead!"...she soon shut up then! :p

 

One thing that's just as bad as hypocrisy when someone's dead is when someone says to not speak ill of the dead when they spoke ill when they were alive (well, it's another form of hypocrisy but still...). It's like they spoke ill when they were alive and never let them rest but because they died, we should let them rest? It doesn't make sense, you can't let the dead rest, they're dead! However you can let the living rest but you didn't bother.

 

However, as I said, personally, I'd find it more of a bitchslap to the face if someone was to suddenly like me in death even though they hated me when I was alive. I'd rather them talk smack about me when I'm alive AND dead because that's their true feelings.

[Serebii]

Perhaps, but I've been seeing people spouting such vile statements, even comparing her to Hitler, Stalin and other dictators who slaughtered thousands. It's a bit much

[Iun]

Well, say what you will about her, she had an extremely recognisable hairstyle.

 

Also: first British female Prime Minister.

[Agent Gibbs]

Perhaps, but I've been seeing people spouting such vile statements, even comparing her to Hitler, Stalin and other dictators who slaughtered thousands. It's a bit much

 

you certainly can make the comparison as they all had similar traits: strong leadership and personalities, but thats about it, they are in different leagues

 

Think of it this way she is comparable to them the same way Mewtwo is comparable to Magicarp, they are both pokemon but leagues a part

 

(does that make sense what i'm trying to say? similarities but leagues apart?)

 

i suppose it depends on the context of the comparison people are making, but as a direct comparison....its madness

 

I have a question, do you think Thatcher would want people to ignore her negatives? or would she want people to stick to their guns as they did in her life?

[Charlie]

Which is much more of a product of Thatcher than Blair. Thatcher created this mess, not Blair. Sure, he didn't fix it, but he certainly didn't create it.

 

One could argue that if Blair didn't take us to war in Iraq then that £8bn could have been put to better use.

[Beast]

Perhaps, but I've been seeing people spouting such vile statements, even comparing her to Hitler, Stalin and other dictators who slaughtered thousands. It's a bit much

 

I guess it's how strong the people feel towards her. She did a bit of covering up in her time and also pretty much screwed the working class right over. I think, as far as people will see it, Hitler was evil and so was she. Whilst she did rule and stick to her guns, I don't believe that's a reason to celebrate and I don't think that it's a positive thing either. Hitler stuck up for what he believed in and what he thought was right but I doubt you'd hear people saying that that was a positive trait. I guess it really does all depend on what the right and wrongs are and I realise not everybody is going to agree with whatever policies but needless to say, she's done quite a bit of damage.

 

I have a question, do you think Thatcher would want people to ignore her negatives? or would she want people to stick to their guns as they did in her life?

 

I would say, from what I've seen, heard and read about her and her times as Prime Minister, she would want people to stick to their guns.

 

Honestly, I think a lot of people are just saying R.I.P mainly because they have to and because they don't want to be seen as disrespectful. That and the fact she was the first ever lady Prime Minister. Geri Halliwell tweeted something along the lines of "R.I.P to the first lady of Girl Power", which left me speechless.

 

I've seen people on Twitter say R.I.P to the first lady prime minister but not have an idea about anything else. I even remember reading a tweet with someone who printscreened a tweet with Harry Styles saying "R.I.P Baroness Thatcher" and everybody else doing the same and then asking him who it was. One person even thought it was his mate and was a boy!

[Agent Gibbs]

I've seen people on Twitter say R.I.P to the first lady prime minister but not have an idea about anything else. I even remember reading a tweet with someone who printscreened a tweet with Harry Styles saying "R.I.P Baroness Thatcher" and everybody else doing the same and then asking him who it was. One person even thought it was his mate and was a boy!