The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Wii U / Switch

[Sméagol]

I've been getting hearts and stamina upgrades in a 2:1 ratio, and only spend the orbs when I've saved up 12. I'm liking the stamina upgrades because I do a lot of climbing, and more stamina definitely makes that easier and quicker. You can even do some minimal climbing in the rain with enough stamina.

[Daft]

I sunk a solid amount of time into this over the weekend. Here are a few initial impressions.

 

The Good

 

Combat. It's a lot of fun. I thought I'd hate the weapon durability thing but once you accept it, it kind of just works. I do wish there was an item like a Whetstone that let you either repair your weapon pre-breaking or allowed you to up its durability a bit. While I appreciate weapons breaking forces you to switch up your play...I don't quite buy it; I end up just using anything and everything because the difference between a spear and a two-handed broadsword is...neither vast, nor a cause to change how I really play.

 

The visuals. Forgetting the immersion-killing frame-rate drops, it looks good. The art style does wonders to cover up how sparse the detail often is. But having come off Horizon on a Pro, I feel like its a great looking game in-spite of the hardware, not because of it.

 

The world. The interplay between all the game systems is superb. It's a lot of fun using the lay of the land to your advantage.

 

The exploration. I feel like this could be a double edge-sword, but it's worked for me. When I stumbled across the thing in the spoilers below I was in awe.

 

The food. Cooking is fun. I think it's much better implemented than in FFXV.

 

The Bad

 

The opening. It's a real damp-squib of an opening. Probably the worst opening of any Zelda game in memory, bar Skyward Sword which tutorial-ed me to death.

 

The music. It's just not doing anything for me. The game is too...quiet.

 

The world. As much as it works mechanically, narratively the world is dull. Before even meeting the uninteresting characters or being introduced to the over-arcing story, the world feels...empty. On the way to Kakariko Village, there's a little fire, with some equipment under a bridge. Any other game might have something to read, like a piece of a diary. There might be something scrawled on a wall. The item position might suggest something about that place. But there's just nothing there. Similarly, there are ruins everywhere, but they're never to realise any story, they're just...things that occupy a space. The dudes sitting at the end of each shrine...none of them have anything interesting to say (I think they all literally say the same thing). Why couldn't they impart some kind of lore? So it overwhelmingly feels like I'm playing a game and not role-playing a story.

 

Again, I free this HUGE dragon from some Ganon scourge. And then offer its scale to the spring. But there's no real context to what I just did. So instead of a rich narrative that I've woven myself into, I end up feeling I've just hit three buttons on a flying platform that just happens to look like a dragon.

 

Like I said, I was in awe when this happened. But then with no context to what just happened, no history told, the moment really undermined itself.

 

 

 

 

So yeah, it's enjoyable. A remarkable game. Nintendo have done some great things but at the same time I can't help but wonder, is it good enough? For a lot of people, it seems to be. For me? No, but if I look past that it's very much one of this year's GOTYs.

[Blade]

 

The world. As much as it works mechanically, narratively the world is dull. Before even meeting the uninteresting characters or being introduced to the over-arcing story, the world feels...empty. On the way to Kakariko Village, there's a little fire, with some equipment under a bridge. Any other game might have something to read, like a piece of a diary. There might be something scrawled on a wall. The item position might suggest something about that place. But there's just nothing there. Similarly, there are ruins everywhere, but they're never to realise any story, they're just...things that occupy a space. The dudes sitting at the end of each shrine...none of them have anything interesting to say (I think they all literally say the same thing). Why couldn't they impart some kind of lore? So it overwhelmingly feels like I'm playing a game and not role-playing a story.

 

Again, I free this HUGE dragon from some Ganon scourge. And then offer its scale to the spring. But there's no real context to what I just did. So instead of a rich narrative that I've woven myself into, I end up feeling I've just hit three buttons on a flying platform that just happens to look like a dragon.

 

Like I said, I was in awe when this happened. But then with no context to what just happened, no history told, the moment really undermined itself.

 

 

 

 

So yeah, it's enjoyable. A remarkable game. Nintendo have done some great things but at the same time I can't help but wonder, is it good enough? For a lot of people, it seems to be. For me? No, but if I look past that it's very much one of this year's GOTYs.

 

It doesn't get any better really when it come to an indepth plot/lore.

 

I'm approaching 100 hours in and have just finished the 3rd devine beast (in my order). It definitely does not feel like 100 hours thats for sure! I have never played a game recently whereby I have spent so much time and not realised.

 

Like I said many times I am absolutely loving it. However, I completely agree with the above. Its a complete missed opportunity to not properly flesh out the lore. The more I play, the more bare bones the game is. The main story/ plot is fine but is not expanded. There are only limited underlying/background plots and hardly any lore.

 

Example when I came across Ruto Village there is hardly any information about its origins, purpose, what role it has played in Hyrule/great calamity. You get basic details about the Champion but I have no idea why he was chosen, what relationship he had with the other Champions or his role.

 

I would have loved some Witcher 3 style lore and depth to the story. Thats the main criticism of the game from me.

 

Like I said, its a missed opportunity because Nintendo has created a beautiful, expansive, living and interactive world only for the plot/lore/legend to be a bit flat.

 

The Legend of Zelda has so much potential for an indepth story/legend with lore about thw different races/regions/the Royal Family that is dying to be told. OoT did it really well (for its time). I felt it was an indepth plot that was told really well. Unfortunately Nintendo has not brought its story telling to the modern era. I'm quite disappointed really.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Blade

[Rummy]

Still haven't put a lot in to this but hoping to get some more in tonight. Last check I was only *just* turning up to Hateno Village though I found a horse on my way so rode allll the way back to the stables to register him. Actually not that long at all - definitely want to utilise horses more for transport if/when I know where I'm going.

 

Also came across my first motion control shrine - was just a ball in a tilt maze but actually incredibly annoying. Spent ages on it and eventually ended up jump the ball over half the maze for each attempt cos I couldn't be arsed rolling it all the way round with the gaps for it to just bloody fall off. Also went back to that really early shrine with the Wind that I mentioned to I think @Hero\-of\-Time - turned out I just wasn't timing my jump and sail properly to catch the winds. Whilst annoying - it's also kinda cool realising I've realised what I was doing wrong first time.

 

Need to find some more shrines soon though(didn't feel I came across many on my way from Kakariko to Hateno) - I've so far done I think only 8 and spent both my upgrades on stamina as I would rather get around faster than survive one heart more - also feel as if food is generally quite abundant too anyway. I feel a bit of a dick cos I cooked lots of shit early on that simply heals far too much more than the measly 3 hearts I have - but again I guess it's been a learning point for me! Gonna stick to more simple things(got a relative abundance of fish) going forward and maybe start thinking about making non-healing elixirs for boosts too.

[Pestneb]

I'm too tired to play this right now, going to be a weekend thing I guess! The game definitely has flaws, but taking it as it is, I'm happy enough with it. It is rare for me to buy a single player game, I tend to find them dull. But I like the feeling that playing this game is achieving. If I never meet ganon, I'll be happy enough (Although in the back of my head I'll know I've "failed"). I've looked across the sea, seen islands, seen mountains and I get enjoyment just from sightseeing really.

11 hours in, not happy with the price I paid (100% my fault ) but even with that I feel I have ok value for money from this game... and I haven't really scratched the surface... I feel. I'm not too sure what "they" want me to be doing right now at this moment... I think hunting for the places Zelda took photo's of. That doesn't appeal so I'm just trying to climb as many towers as I can!

 

Still haven't put a lot in to this but hoping to get some more in tonight. Last check I was only *just* turning up to Hateno Village though I found a horse on my way so rode allll the way back to the stables to register him. Actually not that long at all - definitely want to utilise horses more for transport if/when I know where I'm going.

 

Also came across my first motion control shrine - was just a ball in a tilt maze but actually incredibly annoying. Spent ages on it and eventually ended up jump the ball over half the maze for each attempt cos I couldn't be arsed rolling it all the way round with the gaps for it to just bloody fall off. Also went back to that really early shrine with the Wind that I mentioned to I think @Hero\-of\-Time - turned out I just wasn't timing my jump and sail properly to catch the winds. Whilst annoying - it's also kinda cool realising I've realised what I was doing wrong first time.

 

Need to find some more shrines soon though(didn't feel I came across many on my way from Kakariko to Hateno) - I've so far done I think only 8 and spent both my upgrades on stamina as I would rather get around faster than survive one heart more - also feel as if food is generally quite abundant too anyway. I feel a bit of a dick cos I cooked lots of shit early on that simply heals far too much more than the measly 3 hearts I have - but again I guess it's been a learning point for me! Gonna stick to more simple things(got a relative abundance of fish) going forward and maybe start thinking about making non-healing elixirs for boosts too.

 

I have the game in French.... so I don't recognise all the names... is hateno where that expert on the slate is?

As for getting round faster, I teleport a lot, horses, again, and climbing I've not actually had too many issues with (though I guess with stamina you can jump and climb faster...)

Really both stamina and hearts are easily enough refilled, but hearts need a resource to be consumed while stamina doesn't?

 

Thinking that if I complete this, I 'll play a second time just boosting stamina and see how that goes

[liger05]

I'm trying to get back to my horse but the distance I need to travel is too far due to lightning. WTF am I supposed to do? Even if I get back to it I still won't be able to get anywhere.

[Pestneb]

I'm trying to get back to my horse but the distance I need to travel is too far due to lightning. WTF am I supposed to do? Even if I get back to it I still won't be able to get anywhere.

Is the horse in lightening, or you? If it's just you teleport to an area nearer the horse. If it's the horse... I'd probably give up on it. I tend to leave my horses near teleport points, but I suppose it's safer to leave them in the stable just in case things change...speaking of which, are there reasons not to leave your horse alone in the wild for too long?

[Kav]

I'm trying to get back to my horse but the distance I need to travel is too far due to lightning. WTF am I supposed to do? Even if I get back to it I still won't be able to get anywhere.

 

Why not just unequip your metallic items and run through the area to your horse?

[liger05]

Why not just unequip your metallic items and run through the area to your horse?

 

I only had metallic items so they all meant trouble.

 

I ended up just fast traveling to an Inn and sleeping till morning and the weather cleared up.

[Kav]

I only had metallic items so they all meant trouble.

 

I ended up just fast traveling to an Inn and sleeping till morning and the weather cleared up.

 

You can still unequip them, just run from enemies. As long as they're unequipped you're unlikely to be struck.

[Eddage]

If your horse is out in the world somewhere random then you can just go to any stable and get it "delivered" there. I leave my horses in random places all the time and always just teleport back to a stable (every stable has a shrine very close by) if I need it again.

[Rummy]

@Pestneb it's literally like the next 'objective' after kakariko. The objective itself seems to be some lost memories - but you end up in the Hateno area and may pass the village - so I stopped off there. As I said I'm very behind! Didn't play any last night, but may go to work a little late today...

 

So yeah, it's enjoyable. A remarkable game. Nintendo have done some great things but at the same time I can't help but wonder, is it good enough? For a lot of people, it seems to be. For me? No, but if I look past that it's very much one of this year's GOTYs.

 

As above I still haven't really done all that much but this end-point summary really resonates with my feeling so far. I do very much enjoy the game when I finally sink myself into it - but I do think about whether I can be arsed to start that or not(even tho I want to).

Also very much agree with your point on the weapons - it, like many other things, seems almost like a half-realised idea/system rather than feeling properly considered - as you say you eventually end up just using anything and everything with not a lot of it feeling like it mattered too much. Hoping that'll change with my progression though.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Rummy

[Ronnie]

There's plenty of world building if you speak to NPCs, or read the books in various huts or the stone tablets in the various land(s). Sure other games have more, but they also don't have stuff Zelda does well. It's a balancing act and whist yes a bit more narrative would have been nice, I don't think it affects the game too much, at least for me.

 

as you say you eventually end up just using anything and everything with not a lot of it feeling like it mattered too much.

 

You can use anything if you want, or you can put some thought behind and save the better weapons for the tougher enemies, or save the ranged attacks for things like Lizalfos, or make use of the fire/ice/electic attacks to your advantage. I think the weapon systems in this game are absolutely brilliant, and not half realised in the slightest. Key weapons don't break/can get repaired, the rest fits in well with the survival aspect of the game.

 

Explored a new region last night, my fifth, the bottom right one. Had a ton of fun, and a few wtf moments. I liked how it looked completely different to the areas before it. I've never had so much fun opening my map in a game before.

[The Cape]

Yesterday I arrived at Hateno village, and there was a shrine nearby that I really liked:

 

the one on an island which you can see from the beach. Not the close one, but the isolated island, where you are taken all your equipment off. It made me realise how powerful the sheikah slate by itself can be, as I crushed enemies with the iron boxes using the magnet

Also did some thoughtful cooking for the first time, and used the blobs to ambush enemies. Good fun! I started the challenge by flying on the belly of the Hinox, taking everything on the collar and then leaving without waking it up -- this is how I deal with most of these I've had seven upgrades, all on stamina. Doing that shrine with three hearts was great!

 

 

After leaving the shrine there was a flying minigame. Midway in the flight a thunderstorm started, and I got killed by a lightning when I was reaching the end of the course

 

I'm enjoying the game so far, and I was annoyed by the frame rate drops (I play on the TV mainly), but after I left the Plateau they have disappeared almost completely, which is good. I've unlocked 5 areas, done around 30 shrines. I'll be sad when (or if) I don't have to care about weapon durability anymore. I like using whatever I find, and I have some good weapons saved for tougher enemies.

[Daft]

There's plenty of world building if you speak to NPCs, or read the books in various huts or the stone tablets in the various land(s). Sure other games have more, but they also don't have stuff Zelda does well. It's a balancing act and whist yes a bit more narrative would have been nice, I don't think it affects the game too much, at least for me.

 

 

Part of building a compelling open world is realising its history. It absolutely elevates games and personally I find it increasingly key to the experience (maybe because it's become more prevalent in games).

 

Mad Max had these wonderful little staged artefacts that you could find. And the area you'd find it would be dressed in a certain way. There would be a photo – maybe with a bit of writing on the back – a letter or a postcard. And once you read it Max would make remark on it. I found them personable and especially important because it contrasted the harshness of the world I was presented. Far Cry 4 does something similar.

 

The Witcher 3 is steeped in lore an history, both general and personal. And it's often key to finding locations or secrets or an effective way to fight a certain beast. The towns (Oxenfurt, Velen, Novigrad) are all worth reading about and help realise the world. You can get swept up in a love story that turns into a ghost story, and when you go to exorcise the ghost the place is rich with detail; both visual story and written.

 

And Horizon (which it's no secret I've been blown out of the water by) creates an utterly compelling world that feels like it's not just existing at a point frozen in time, but is instead a place that has gone through much and will go through even more once you've 100%-ed it and uninstalled the game from the HDD.

 

Even Destiny, which has nothing going on in explicit story has absolutely wonderful (and stupidly inaccessible) lore about everything from people, to equipment, to world/levels/raids. The Vault of Glass raid isn't brilliant simply because of the mechanics, it's brilliant because the mechanics and the lore are one and the same.

 

I actually think it's a massive cock-tease to create what appears to be a deep, rich world and then have no info about it. Like a supermodel who's got nothing going on between their ears; fun to play with but don't expect any profound conversations.

 

And it might not have an impact on you but it most certainly made that epic bit I talked about in spoilers feel pretty empty.

 

 

You can use anything if you want, or you can put some thought behind and save the better weapons for the tougher enemies, or save the ranged attacks for things like Lizalfos, or make use of the fire/ice/electic attacks to your advantage. I think the weapon systems in this game are absolutely brilliant, and not half realised in the slightest. Key weapons don't break/can get repaired, the rest fits in well with the survival aspect of the game.

 

I don't really understand the 'survival' aspect. I don't remember a Zelda game where you could carry an unlimited number of health items...so there's no tension there. You never come close to using up all your weapons, there's always something lying around (does this change later on?)...so again, surviving isn't really an issue. You also have unlimited bombs that – if you switch between the round and the cubed one – you can use two at a time (and by the time you get the Bomb+ they recharge super quick, too). The fights aren't hard unless I'm getting one-shot by random enemies that I need to get one-shot by to realise that they can one-shot me...Which is incredibly stupid, if you ask me. I feel like I missed a tutorial about how certain enemies are stronger and that I should observe the weapon they're holding before engaging (except the draw distance is so poor that scouting the landscape isn't really possible...especially when the enemy is one of those centaur mother-fuckers who can see you a mile off).

 

I guess the hot and cold environments add a certain level of survival to the game but like health items I can just stock up on lots of heat/cold resistant meals to get me through. So...

 

Also, the lack of a proper dodge/roll button is really lamentable; that adds a certain level of fighting for survival because inevitably anything that limits movement does. Every fight basically turns into a fencing match.

 

 

Reading this and my last post back, it sounds like I'm really beating down on Zelda but I am really enjoying it. It just feels like Nintendo threw everything that prototyped quite well into a box and made sure nothing was especially broken. It's unfocused. But it's more a shame that they could and should have done so much more with the narrative.

 

Majora's Mask narrative run circles around this game. It's been 17 years since Majora's Mask. Why haven't Nintendo made progress?

[drahkon]

Wouldn't BotW's world with its vast and empty expanses a great fit for a 3D Pokémon game? The wasteland setting wouldn't work, obviously, but if you add some towns and caves you have a winner.

 

Have Pokémon running around in those large fields. I'd love that.

 

The climbing mechanic could also be used (maybe without limitations).

[Ronnie]

Majora's Mask narrative run circles around this game. It's been 17 years since Majora's Mask. Why haven't Nintendo made progress?[/color]

 

I agree with a lot of your post but I think the above it just nostalgia talking. There's over half a dozen towns in Breath of the Wild, all full of NPCs and sidequests. Eighteen memories that flesh out the characters and world (no half arsed, money-saving audio logs), in addition to the story cutscenes, and a fair amount of written lore to read if you choose to. Talk to any of the NPCs and they'll give you insights into the various sights of the world and what makes them special. I'm not saying it's Witcher 3 levels of depth in that regard, but it's not as empty as you're suggesting, IMO.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Ronnie

[Daft]

I agree with a lot of your post but I think the above it just nostalgia talking. There's over half a dozen towns in Breath of the Wild, all full of NPCs and sidequests. Eighteen memories that flesh out the characters and world (no half arsed, money-saving audio logs here), in addition to the story cutscenes, and a fair amount of written lore to read if you choose to. Talk to any of the NPCs and they'll give you insights into the varius sights of the world and what makes them special. I'm not saying it's Witcher 3 levels of depth in that regard, but it's not as empty as you're suggesting, IMO.

 

I've not found any of the memories yet. Maybe they'll help change my mind.

 

I'm not sure you can accuse audio-logs of being money saving when talking about a game that has incredibly limited voice-acting as it is. And it's not like any of those games with audio-logs eschew full voice acting and cutscenes. I don't think any of them do.

 

It's not necessarily that BotW is empty, it's partly that there is – for me – a discord between certain activities or setting and narrative.

[Sheikah]

Call me different but I'm glad that Zelda's world isn't more fleshed out than it currently is. Zelda works for me because it's fairly simple and lighthearted. I would expect totally the opposite treatment to its open world environment building to, say, Witcher 3, which had at times cumbersome amounts of lore.

 

Regarding Majora's Mask, I think the very concept of that game (72 hour cycles you constantly relive) is what essentially made you get to know the characters in that game better than you otherwise would have.

 

Incidentally, audio logs are possibly one of the worst and most unimaginative ways to tell a story ever conceived. Oh right so you had something you wanted to say so you recorded it then left the recorder on the floor. Cool.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Sheikah

[Daft]

You're different.

 

 

Edit: Seriously though, for a game series titled The Legend of Zelda, it's severely lacking in legend.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Daft

[Sheikah]

Just as Final Fantasy is lacking in finality?

[Daft]

At least a fantasy (of sorts) is presented. Slavishly realised, usually. So your point doesn't really make much sense.

 

Not to mention that all FF games are limited series. They may be a series of three games but they aren't designed to continue indefinitely.

 

Except for FF Online. I have no idea what's going on there. But that FF11 and FF14 are different also speaks to the finality of each title.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Daft

[Sheikah]

At least a fantasy (of sorts) is presented. Slavishly realised, usually. So your point doesn't really make much sense.

But not final. Hence the name doesn't (and needn't) actually mean anything.

 

The first Zelda had barely any legend to it anyhow.

[Daft]

Sure, whatever. That's a real strawman. It doesn't at all change my criticism that there is a lack of narrative around too many places and activities.

[Sheikah]

Sure, whatever. That's a real strawman. It doesn't at all change my criticism that there is a lack of narrative around too many places and activities.

 

I don't see at what point I ever tried to downplay or change your criticism of the story? You made a comment about the name of the series, and I made a comment about the naming of series. You joke, I joke, ya?