Posted January 7, 2006 Ok so i was around my sister's the other day and she has quite a big fish tank with quite a few fish. I was staring at this one fish for ages and he just didnt seem to do much at all. Do you think he was bored ? Then i wondered can fish actaully get bored or is it a true fact that they only have a 3 second memory so technically they cant get bored cos every 3 seconds they forget everything and then something new is going on in their lives down by the rock with the plant. You see some people have one goldfish in one of those tiny bowls with nothing in it except water... Now surely that poor guy gets bored ? but again in 3 seconds time is he like woah where the hell am i ? so my point in this thread ? i dont really have one to be honest im bored myself and just wondered what you lot thought ? So do fish get bored or is it true they only have a 3 second memory ? or is that a myth that only ive heard of ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 they might get lonely, but I dont think fish get bored. Theres just too much to do in a fish tank. I mean, you could swim around, or suck some rocks at the bottom of your tank, or, uuuh, swim around... If there were other fish, you'd be having a great time!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 I'm sure it's better than ending up on my plate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 I don't think they have complex enough brains to even concive a world outside of there immediate vision. Never mind get lonely or bored or whatever. In conclusion- I don't know Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 My sister has a tropical fish tank, I noticed the other day that everytime I put my finger up to the glass they all swarm to me even though they've just been fed. I'm sure the angel fish doesn't get bored, he's too busy chasing the little fish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 Yeah i think that fish who live in a big tank with lots of rocks and plants and other fish to play with wouldnt really get bored....But ones that are all on their own in that small round bowl must be bored. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 Yes but what are their options? "Lets swim over here and swim!" "No wait! Over here is better!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 hmm i dont reckon they get bored, coz they never try to do anything different except swimming. think about it, if you were a fish , and u got bored, you'd try and jump out the water for one, and do backflips (in the water, not while jumping out, a fish cant do that silly) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 Maybe they are just happy to be alive? Scary thought... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 What can a fish do in the wild that it cant do in a tank, apart from get eaten. Are thay missing out on anything in a tank? Oh and tnd the three second memory thing isn't true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 maybe they dont know what their missing so their content on how they live Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 Yeah i think that fish who live in a big tank with lots of rocks and plants and other fish to play with wouldnt really get bored....But ones that are all on their own in that small round bowel must be bored. I agree with that, and would ask, what is the point? I think you need at least two fish, and plenty of room for them to swim about - and I'm not just talking about the fish here, I'd get way too bored way too quickly with one fish on its own in a tiny bowl. bowls = transport, tanks = home. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 Fish dont have 3 second memories...that is old fashioned nonsense dreamt up by christians who think that animals are on this earth just to be eaten. Some fish have memories that span 30 years... Aquarium fish are no different. Goldfish arent even supposed to be kept in huge 6ft long tanks, let alone tiny goldfish bowls... Goldfish grow up to 16inches and are pond/lake fish. A goldfish also has a very good memory.... If you keep a goldifsh in a tank, you are basically torchering it both mentally and physically. Its skeleton will grow while its body stays the same size due to tiny conditions....its skeleton will become bent and it will be feeling torture in those conditions just like a human does. I have a 125 US gallon aquarium, which is roughly 5ft by 2ft by 2ft in size (huge) and have a Red Eared Slider terrapin (a turtle), a rainbow shark and 6 tiger barbs.. My terrapin gets extremely bored when he is on his own and will get depressed if i dont make things fun for him or play with him. He will often just mess up the tank for some fun if he gets bored. My fish have plenty of space in their huge tank..my tiger barbs spend some time fighting eachother in order to see who is boss fish in their shoal and my rainbow sharks spends his time hiding from sight in one of his territories and comes out every now and again to chase the tiger barbs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 I think it is cruel to keep one fish on its own in a tiny little bowl, even if the fish don't know much about it. All fish deserve a decent amount of room, generally the more space the better I suppose! About the 3 second thing, I agree that isn't right because my mum has some fish and everytime she walks up to the tank all of the fish swim to the top waiting for food so they must remember that if someone goes up to the tank they are going to get fed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 yes, the 3 second thing is nonsense....its unbelievable how little certain groups of people think of animals. "dont worry, they dont have feelings". The fact is that fish are very complex animals. Fish do assocciate people with what they do....cleaning and feeding. Fish will trust the person who feeds them (apart from my rainbow shark who only comes out when nobody is looking) and know exactly what times in the day that they are fed. As I said with regards to Tiger Barbs, they are a social group of fish and build up a hierarchy..deciding which fish are higher up in their group in others. They get to know eachother and when new tiger barbs are introduced, they will start fighting again to build up a new hierarchy People who fish for carp will realise that they get smarter the older that they get. The older a carp gets, it learns more and more tricks which the fisherman is doing in order to catch them and will learn to avoid them. Big carp can be very hard to catch because they are so smart and will spot the tricks that the younger fish arent aware of. My tank when it was first set up: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 yes, the 3 second thing is nonsense....its unbelievable how little certain groups of people think of animals. "dont worry, they dont have feelings". The fact is that fish are very complex animals. Fish do assocciate people with what they do....cleaning and feeding. Fish will trust the person who feeds them (apart from my rainbow shark who only comes out when nobody is looking) and know exactly what times in the day that they are fed. As I said with regards to Tiger Barbs, they are a social group of fish and build up a hierarchy..deciding which fish are higher up in their group in others. They get to know eachother and when new tiger barbs are introduced, they will start fighting again to build up a new hierarchy People who fish for carp will realise that they get smarter the older that they get. The older a carp gets, it learns more and more tricks which the fisherman is doing in order to catch them and will learn to avoid them. Big carp can be very hard to catch because they are so smart and will spot the tricks that the younger fish arent aware of. My tank when it was first set up: Very much so me and my friends spend nearly 2 days (one of which raned all day, fishing for carp, we started at 8 in the morning and fished 12 hours each day, finaly on the second day my friend cuaght a huge un' (25 pounds), that was after we had spoken to a regular at the carp lake, and he gave us some advice, the carp get used to bait types we had switch what bait and where we were casting off. The same going for pike they even reconise differnt colour lures. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 I dunno if this was mentioned yet but: Although fish have a 3-6 second short term memory. They do remember things, they know what time you usually feed them, they know how to swim through certain fish tank toys and stuff. They are resonably smart in terms of long term memory. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 They've not known better. Fucking hell. I don't remember writing that post. I do however stand by it!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 Fucking hell. I don't remember writing that post. Due to chemical induced memory loss, or (perhaps more grandly and miraculously) due to the effects of an epileptic fit started at the computer desk and the random keyboard mashings of said fit? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 Well, firstly, I don't think fish conciously realise that they are in a small tank; due to internal reflections it looks infinite and thus like the sea. However, I do realise that being in cramped conditions could be bad for them, but I don't think the fish themselves realise it. I also think that although fish don't have a short memory span, this doesn't mean they have feelings or are "clever" in the human sense. I'd imagine that they would run purely on instincts, as most animals appear to do so. The only animals that don't are ones with brain sizes approaching that of a human (eg. elephant, dolphin). This would mean that they are unable to, as such, have feelings such as boredom. Finally I think it is unlikely that they would feel fear; no animals seem able to do so, due to their inability to anticipate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 I'm sure it's better than ending up on my plate. Or being dipped in fat and wrapped in paper Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 Or being dipped in fat and wrapped in paper That sounds fun actually. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfish RE: That Memory Thing.. Perhaps they have a cery short attention span but clearly they have a long term memory store which lasts longer than 3 seconds. Memory is a complex thing to talk about, and doing so in time units is kind of overlooking the whole point of memory. I think of memory more as a mass teeming bundle of connections. Associations you've made - most often unconsciously. For example, a fish may make a link between "food" and "flakes". You may make a link between "Smell of Smirnoff Ice" and "beach parties aged 13" - Of course I don't believe that memory works in this labelling way either, but that's a complicated step i'm not going to take right now. A fish's memory is going to be limited first of all by capacity for sure - think of the size of your average tanked fish - a few inches? Even though it is generally believed that our human brains have an unlimited capacity for storage, I like to believe that it is limited by other things, mostly in regard to the idea that it takes energy to create a memory (seeing as it's an electrical process.. ok well any process would agree with that statement..) then the amount of memories stored must surely be limited by the amount of energy used, the amount of energy available? Slightly tangentated, let's go back a step - A fish has a small teeny brain, so can't remember all that much. The fish is, therefore, not going to remember whatever it wants, like how many times it's swum around the bowl or what you were wearing yesterday. By no actual mental choice of it's own, it will only remember essential things, like what not to eat. In psychology, that's Classical conditioning. So in summary; who gives a crap. Even if animals have feelings they do not have the ability (or at least, goldfish do not!) to take another perspective - they are unable to think "well that fish over there has a bigger tank, more food and a nicer hat than me. I will feel sad now because this is unfair." It's the theory of mind, an idea that there are certain tick-boxes a species needs to fulfil in order to be considered intelligent. Think of it as empathy, and self-awareness. I don't really think a goldfish is aware enough to say "i could be better off". It's like the idea that good cannot exist without evil. Well it works both ways, surely. Not knowing any better means you don't know the full extent to just how bad things are. And ignorance is bliss! Nice little trail of phrases i've found there. This topic is way more philosophical than it seems, y'know. What is memory? What is the mind? How does an animal learn? how do we[/] learn? Do we have a right to limit another creature? Where does the line end? STUFF LIKE THAT. I will shup now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 7, 2006 Fish dont have 3 second memories...that is old fashioned nonsense dreamt up by christians who think that animals are on this earth just to be eaten Stupid christians its all a conspiracy how dare they try and undermine goldfish! Or are they? Oh wait its tme for my trip up in a plane funded by comrade Stalin to show me that God doesn't exist. Three second memory FTW! However you have a bloody super fish tank just wonderful and I love the tortise/turtle/teripin. I used to have fish in a tank but they kept dying then I got a pond instead much better Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
