Serebii Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 No Serebii you are not understand... what you're talking about is important to the the handheld Pokémon! This wouldn't be handheld Pokémon! It would be the Mario Galaxy to your New Super Mario Bros... two completely different experiences. One very handheld orientated, the other far more story driven, grander and fleshed out offering a different experience. You would still have the handheld games for what you're talking about. Don't advertise it to the Japanese market as heavily then... in the same way that they're not interested in 3D Mario games. And just like 3D Mario, this Pokémon game wouldn't do the same numbers as the handheld games, but it's important to diversify to stay fresh... offer different people different opportunities to enjoy a franchise and its characters... those who have either grown tired of the current formula, those that hadn't taken an interest before, or those new to it. Yes, but Pokémon as a concept is designed around being on a handheld. That's the thing you're missing. It's different to the Mario games.
Retro_Link Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) Yes, but Pokémon as a concept is designed around being on a handheld. That's the thing you're missing.That's like saying Mario as a concept is built around 2D platforming... or Donkey Kong around an arcade machine?... It's different to the Mario games. So Pokémon is so ultimately shallow that it can't do anything else successfully? Edited August 14, 2013 by Retro_Link
Happenstance Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 So @Retro_Link, a Pokemon RPG on a home console ey? Thats a fun idea that we could all have a nice chat about.
Ashley Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 If Nintendo made a Wii U Pokémon game that connected to the 3DS (so you could still be social) it would solve so many issues and would be the first time Nintendo did connectivity correctly :p
Daft Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 I'm with Serebii. Pokemon shouldn't be used to plug a hole in the Wii U's line-up for the sake of it. That's the kind of crap Sony does (although, the other way around).
Retro_Link Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 Being used to plug a hole is the last way I'd see it. It's not a Wii U specific issue... it just so happens the Wii U Gamepad would be an ideal opportunity. It more about offering a different more appealing Pokémon experience to those tired of the same lather rinse repeat.
Daft Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 Then they should innovate with the handheld game. What exactly would the Wii U gamepad offer that the 3DS can't? This isn't aimed at you, but I'm so tired of these vague 'opportunities' and the 'potential' of the Wii U gamepad. When it comes to it, no one comes even close to an even vaguely good use for it.
Guy Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 I get why people look at Ni no Kuni and wish there was a big 3D console Pokemon game like that, but there kind of already is one. It's called Ni no Kuni. Play that, get your fix, move on. Pokemon on a home console could very easily be like Ni no Kuni. It could also very easily be just like the handheld games with better presentation. It should be neither.
Retro_Link Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) Then they should innovate with the handheld game. What exactly would the Wii U gamepad offer that the 3DS can't? This isn't aimed at you, but I'm so tired of these vague 'opportunities' and the 'potential' of the Wii U gamepad. When it comes to it, no one comes even close to an even vaguely good use for it. For me I see the possibility of a real story driven adventure, beautifully drawn and animated. Really feel a part of a world. Taking off into the sky on your Pokémon, jumping on their back and crossing the Ocean wind waker style. Doing battle along the ways. Also it's an opportunity to offer the series to people who are not into handheld gaming or are looking for something else from the series. In terms of the gamepad itself... using it to hold up to the TV to scan the environment and to scan Pokemon just like the Pokedex acts in the series would be a lot of fun. Give it a proper voice. They could also do some NFC related stuff if they wanted. I get why people look at Ni no Kuni and wish there was a big 3D console Pokemon game like that, but there kind of already is one. It's called Ni no Kuni. Play that, get your fix, move on. Pokemon on a home console could very easily be like Ni no Kuni. It could also very easily be just like the handheld games with better presentation. It should be neither. True. Just feels like so much untapped potential though, given the personality of the Pokémon themselves. I think you could become far more absorbed into the world and have a far more engaging/emotional experience, than you ever could with the handheld games. Edited August 14, 2013 by Retro_Link
Fierce_LiNk Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 I'm with Serebii. Pokemon shouldn't be used to plug a hole in the Wii U's line-up for the sake of it. That's the kind of crap Sony does (although, the other way around). Then they should innovate with the handheld game. What exactly would the Wii U gamepad offer that the 3DS can't? This isn't aimed at you, but I'm so tired of these vague 'opportunities' and the 'potential' of the Wii U gamepad. When it comes to it, no one comes even close to an even vaguely good use for it. It doesn't need to be Wii U specific because people have been asking about this since the Gamecube. Nobody is also saying that we should ditch the handheld versions in favour of the series going home console. But, what we are asking for is some sort of alternative. Some way of bringing the series to the home console but in an interesting and exciting way. What would the Wii U console itself bring to the experience: - For a start, it's a more powerful system than the 3DS, meaning you could have potentially a beautiful world that could be crafted with 3D visuals. You would have the ability to do this in HD. You can't do that on the 3DS. The opportunity to visit different lands and have a much, much bigger and more exciting overworld surely shouldn't be snuffed at. - The sound quality could feature some sort of improvement. What about orchestrated music? What about voice-acting? What about having memorable tunes and songs created in tandem with the encompassing overworld? Part of the reason why Xenoblade gets so much praise is because of the worlds that are created within it. Imagine how great the Pokèmon would look and sound. - The online capabilities. Look at Miiverse. Maybe you could have some way of starting your own gyms online and having the ability to challenge others/invite others through the Miiverse. You could have competitions, you could have "online meetups" where rare items or rare pokemon are traded. - There could potentially be some connectivity with the 3DS. Maybe you could move your pokemon between games, or items. There's loads of potential in that area. As for the Wii U GamePad itself, there are tons of ideas in which it could be useful: - In mid-battle, you could have the animations and the battle taking place on the mainscreen, but the attacks or items on the GP's screen. This would save any unnecessary screen space from being taken up. That's one starting point. - The item inventory would be easy to manage using the touch screen on the GP. What if the home console games were in real-time, not turn based? So, you could tap areas on the GP screen to initiate special attacks. You could have your item menus there, too. What if the attacks were placed on the four face buttons and the touch screen was used for changing pokemon or using items. - The GP would be a pokedex. You could meet Pokemon in the game's story or even online and the information would be displayed on the GP screen whilst the story was continuing. You could do this along with voice acting. - What if the GP's Pokedex was used to look for wild pokemon in hard to see areas? What if you're in a jungle-like area, for example? You could use the GP's screen to scan and search for hidden rare Pokemon that are up high in trees or in the water or in some sort of camouflage. - The Pokedex could be used to find hidden ghost-type pokemon in certain areas that you can't see. - The touchscreen can be used to type messages to players during the game. Maybe you have a friend who has just come online and you're in the main game. Using the touchscreen is easy to type, but you could also carry on with your game simultaneously. Maybe you could have some sort of drop-in/drop-out aspect where you can "call friends" using the GP, inviting them to come into your game if you're stuck at a certain point. - The GP could be used to take snapshots of pokemon that can be uploaded onto Miiverse. Maybe this could be part of the game, where you need to take pictures of certain pokemon at specific times. Pokemon snap. - Maybe some sort of cool function where you could access something online on the GamePad whilst simultaneously still play and view the main game on the tv screen. It could be a lobby, could be some kind of chat system, or something else entirely. These are some of the ideas that I had. I'm sure that there are tons more things that could be done, too. The GamePad could be put to good use quite easily and it would help bring pokemon to the home console in some kind of interesting way. Even if it's not going to happen (because Serebii said so), there's nothing wrong with us being able to dream about making a (some might say stale) franchise more interesting.
Hero-of-Time Posted August 14, 2013 Author Posted August 14, 2013 I wouldn't mind being able to use the GP to capture the Pokemon like you do in the Ranger series. Being more active during the capture process is why I have enjoyed the Ranger series more than than the mainline series for the past few games.
Retro_Link Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 Nailed the experience and potential @Fierce_LiNk People have been crying out for a sequel to Pokémon Snap too... like you say it could be a whole side-quest game of it's own in Pokémon Wii U!
Fierce_LiNk Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 Nailed the experience and potential @Fierce_LiNk People have been crying out for a sequel to Pokémon Snap too... like you say it could be a whole side-quest game of it's own in Pokémon Wii U! Exactly, make that almost a game-within-a-game. A sidequest that takes place throughout the whole adventure. Gotta snap em all. Maybe you also need to take pictures of pokemon in certain environments. For example, there could be a volcano you have to visit at some point in the game, take a picture as it erupts, etc. Having it on the home console just means that there will be much greater horsepower going into the game. More power, more possibilities. What if you could set challenges to others online, or as part of DLC or something. I'm convinced that it can work and, in my mind, it could be quite spectacular.
Retro_Link Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 I'm convinced that it can work and, in my mind, it could be quite spectacular.HOW DARE YOU!!.. I hope you don't teach the kids at school to dream!
Daft Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 @Fierce_LiNk While a lot of those ideas are pretty cool, none of them make me think they'd really benefit the game that much. Yeah, they're interesting, but they aren't really much more than a novelty - none of them feel essential. A fair few (like the inventory) are just different ways of doing things that I don't have a problem with (not to mention the 3DS has two screen to do that kind of thing anyway). The 3DS has a touch screen too, for typing messages. It even has gyroscopes; you could do the ghost capturing on that too. I think Luigi's Mansion 2 has a similar mechanic...if I remember correctly. In terms of graphics, I probably wouldn't be happy with a Pokemon game until it looked cutting edge. I'm not sure why, maybe because it's a game about this weird ecology and until the technology is there, I'm happy with the current representation of it. And I know, that's a really weird comment. Basically, when I play Pokemon, I don't do it for the graphics. If change is going to come, there's no reason it shouldn't happen on the 3DS. Just feels like people want the Wii U version for the sake of it. Bigger isn't always better.
Retro_Link Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 If change is going to come, there's no reason it shouldn't happen on the 3DS. Just feels like people want the Wii U version for the sake of it. Bigger isn't always better.If we're to believe the hype/Serebii then big change has come to Pokémon on the 3DS... and it still feels like the same thing to me. If that's the case, then they really aren't doing enough/the 3DS isn't a capable machine for such change. I don't feel any of it is that exciting.
Fierce_LiNk Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 @Fierce_LiNk While a lot of those ideas are pretty cool, none of them make me think they'd really benefit the game that much. Yeah, they're interesting, but they aren't really much more than a novelty - none of them feel essential. A fair few (like the inventory) are just different ways of doing things that I don't have a problem with (not to mention the 3DS has two screen to do that kind of thing anyway). The 3DS has a touch screen too, for typing messages. It even has gyroscopes; you could do the ghost capturing on that too. I think Luigi's Mansion 2 has a similar mechanic...if I remember correctly. I'm just going to point out one thing. Pikmin 3 could quite have easily have been done on the 3DS, before it came to Wii U. Hell, even the Wii. There are pointer controls, so it would have been fine on the Wii. It has the touchscreen abilities to look at the map, plus the slide-pad attachment, so that could have been done on the 3DS. Using a Wiimote to fire a gun is, by itself, "cool". Put in something like Goldeneye, and then it becomes fucking amazing. Using the Wiimote controls by themselves appear "fine", but putting it together with Pikmin 3 and it becomes "essential". So, none of those ideas by themselves will be game changing. However, put it into the right Pokèmon game, and it can be. The game itself needs to be solid, tight, exciting, exhilarating. Like everything else. Adding the right controls with the full usage of the gamepad at your disposal, with the right graphics, with the right sound, with the right quantity and quality of Pokèmon, with the right depth of gameplay, with the right online capabilities, with the immersive and beautiful created worlds, with the right storyline and the right quantity and quality of sidequests, and you will have your game.
Daft Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 (edited) If we're to believe the hype/Serebii then big change has come to Pokémon on the 3DS... and it still feels like the same thing to me. If that's the case, then they really aren't doing enough/the 3DS isn't a capable machine for such change. I don't feel any of it is that exciting. I think that's a different discussion, though. Nintendo are just churning it out, and why not? It's a license to print money. But I am also saying that, they aren't doing enough on the 3DS. I think any real change towards a more naturalistic Pokemon - like a 'real world' Pokemon - would need a machine much more powerful than the Wii U to effect. I'm just going to point out one thing. Pikmin 3 could quite have easily have been done on the 3DS, before it came to Wii U. Hell, even the Wii. There are pointer controls, so it would have been fine on the Wii. It has the touchscreen abilities to look at the map, plus the slide-pad attachment, so that could have been done on the 3DS. Using a Wiimote to fire a gun is, by itself, "cool". Put in something like Goldeneye, and then it becomes fucking amazing. Using the Wiimote controls by themselves appear "fine", but putting it together with Pikmin 3 and it becomes "essential". So, none of those ideas by themselves will be game changing. However, put it into the right Pokèmon game, and it can be. The game itself needs to be solid, tight, exciting, exhilarating. Like everything else. Adding the right controls with the full usage of the gamepad at your disposal, with the right graphics, with the right sound, with the right quantity and quality of Pokèmon, with the right depth of gameplay, with the right online capabilities, with the immersive and beautiful created worlds, with the right storyline and the right quantity and quality of sidequests, and you will have your game. Honestly, I think Pikmin would have been a much better 3DS game. Its use of the Wii U is pretty uninspired, from what I played of it. But don't confuse that with me saying that it is a bad game, because it isn't. The Wiimote as a gun does very little for me; it's just another control method; neither good, nor bad - it doesn't change the quality of the game. If a game is good it will be so no matter what the control method. But I don't get how you've made the leap from an alternate control method to being 'game changing' if done right (I'm not saying it's impossible, but I've never played a game where the control method was the reason it was brillaint). Controls don't matter to me. I could play Pokemon on a piano if that's was an option. Edited August 14, 2013 by Daft Automerged Doublepost
Fierce_LiNk Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 Honestly, I think Pikmin would have been a much better 3DS game. Its use of the Wii U is pretty uninspired, from what I played of it. But don't confuse that with me saying that it is a bad game, because it isn't. The Wiimote as a gun does very little for me; it's just another control method; neither good, nor bad - it doesn't change the quality of the game. If a game is good it will be so no matter what the control method. But I don't get how you've made the leap from an alternate control method to being 'game changing' if done right (I'm not saying it's impossible, but I've never played a game where the control method was the reason it was brillaint). Controls don't matter to me. I could play Pokemon on a piano if that's was an option. Completely disagree with the first part. Pikmin 3 is immense on the Wii U. It's beautiful due to the graphical part of the Wii U, in comparison to the Wii and 3DS. I, like many others on here, have been using the Wiimote to control the game but the gamepad for the map and other things. It's seemless. It just wouldn't be the same on the previous system or the 3DS. As for the last part, I believe you've misinterpreted. What I was saying was the ideas by themselves are just half of it, if that. It's when they are implemented amongst other things that the whole package becomes worthwhile. I'll use Pikmin 3 as an example again, because it's easy and I guess quite relevant here. The control by themselves make it easier to control, but the controls and the graphical ability and so on make it something else. I agree with the first thing you say in the first part of your post, which was that Nintendo aren't doing enough with this on the 3DS. They're not. The potential of it isn't being realised, imo. Even if we dismiss the whole notion of a home console Pokemon, the differences between each game are minimal at best.
Retro_Link Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 This is going off topic, but I'd say the controls in Goldeneye 007 are a game changer. Tilting the nunchuck to lean round corners was inspired and worked so naturally. It's almost guaranteed to bring a small smile/'this is brilliant' look to the face of whoever plays it.
Daft Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 I just think controls are one of the last things that need to be thought about when you want to change gameplay. Intrinsic mechanics like movement, AI, physics, narrative structure, etc take precedent over how a game controls. In Pikmin I wanted to use the Gamepad to drag and select my troops, like in an RTS. In the end it was just a map. I don't get how it wouldn't work better on a 3DS; using the stylus to drag, select, throw and direct your Pikmin.
Fierce_LiNk Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 This is going off topic, but I'd say the controls in Goldeneye 007 are a game changer. Tilting the nunchuck to lean round corners was inspired and worked so naturally. It's almost guaranteed to bring a small smile/'this is brilliant' look to the face of whoever plays it. I agree completely. (also, yes, it has gone wildly off topic, sorry) I just think controls are one of the last things that need to be thought about when you want to change gameplay. Intrinsic mechanics like movement, AI, physics, narrative structure, etc take precedent over how a game controls. In Pikmin I wanted to use the Gamepad to drag and select my troops, like in an RTS. In the end it was just a map. I don't get how it wouldn't work better on a 3DS; using the stylus to drag, select, throw and direct your Pikmin. The GamePad has a stylus and a touchscreen, like the DS and 3DS. So, there's no guarantee that the game would have controlled that way on the 3DS if it doesn't do that on the Wii U. I think the issue from that comes from the fact that you are not controlling the Pikmin directly, but rather the Koppai spacepeople (or Olimar in other games) who in turn controll the 'min. So, you move Olimar around and he selects Pikmin using the whistle. I guess you could use the analogue stick to move the Koppai around and then tap which ones you would want, although I'll admit I was surprised that Nintendo didn't include an option to do this.
Daft Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 Yeah, I guess that direct/indirect control makes sense. I didn't play it with the Wii-mote. I can imagine that'd be a little more manageable.
Serebii Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 It's the same complaint as to when people want control over the Pokémon in battle. People forget that we're playing as the Pokémon Trainer and are issuing commands to the Pokémon, and not playing the Pokémon itself @Fierce_LiNk Your idea does have some merit, but again there's nothing that screams "I should be on the home console rather than a handheld" in it other than the visuals.
Fierce_LiNk Posted August 14, 2013 Posted August 14, 2013 Yeah, I guess that direct/indirect control makes sense. I didn't play it with the Wii-mote. I can imagine that'd be a little more manageable. It's supreme with the Wiimote. Seriously, if there's one game that was made for it, it was Pikmin 3. I'll stop replying/posting this for a while now as I've said my piece. *waves POKEMANS FOR WEEYOOO banner* As you were.
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