MoogleViper Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 But domestication = the animals have actually become accustomed to being pets, i.e. owned by humans. Whoever locks their pet in the basement is definitely in the wrong, but most pet owners I know take them out for walks and exercise, groom them, and feed them well... Is that any different from brainwashing them? If somebody had abducted a child and brainwashed them into wanting to live with them, we'd still see that as disgusting. Just think how disgusted we were with ReZ for what he did to Maddie. And she loved him. Grazza raises a different point as well. How many of your pets would come back to you of their own accord? Take your hutch/cage/tank out into the garden and leave it open. See if your pets are still there after 10 minutes (or even 10 seconds). And do you really think most pet owners take good care of their pets? I'm not saying that they abuse them, but go to a local park/woods/streets/anywhere on a warm summer's day, and see how many people are walking their dog. Do the same on a winter's day. (And I don't mean in a blizzard, just a mildly cold november day.) And dog's/cats are one of the few pets that I don't consider cruel. I can't tell if you're joking or actually serious about comparing Fritzl's treatment to that of a pet. Please tell me how it's different. (Apart from the sex thing. A life-sentence prisoner is a better comparison.) Let's use a rabbit as an example, and compare it with a maximum security prisoner. They're put in a cell of their own accord. They have no freedom except for the llimited time you allow them in a run/prison yard. They eat what you give them and when you give it to them. The only interaction they're allowed is limited, with people/rabbits of your choosing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramar Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 They're put in a cell of their own accord. They have no freedom except for the llimited time you allow them in a run/prison yard. They eat what you give them and when you give it to them. The only interaction they're allowed is limited, with people/rabbits of your choosing. Unfortunately no fox has ever ransacked a prison eating all of it's inhabitants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Unfortunately no fox has ever ransacked a prison eating all of it's inhabitants. So you're saying it's better to be a prisoner, because they have higher levels of safety/security? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iun Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Grazza raises a different point as well. How many of your pets would come back to you of their own accord? Take your hutch/cage/tank out into the garden and leave it open. See if your pets are still there after 10 minutes (or even 10 seconds). . My rabbit wouldn't go anywhere. I know this for a fact because I cut its damn legs off, little bastard kept running away. If the little twat tries to roll away I'll feed its fluffy white ass to a snake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramar Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 So you're saying it's better to be a prisoner, because they have higher levels of safety/security? No, I was attempting a funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellmeister Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Blah de blah blah I think releasing domesticated animals into the wild would in fact do them more harm than good. I understand that they rely on us and we determine when they are fed, what they are fed etc but we provide safety and care that they would not obtain in the wild. We still allow freedom to most animals but I can see the point of a snake in a tank for example. Even though Ramar tried and failed to make a joke he has a point, that Rabbit would suffer severely somewhere in the wild however it is a lot safer and well kept in its hutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I think releasing domesticated animals into the wild would in fact do them more harm than good. I understand that they rely on us and we determine when they are fed, what they are fed etc but we provide safety and care that they would not obtain in the wild. We still allow freedom to most animals but I can see the point of a snake in a tank for example. Even though Ramar tried and failed to make a joke he has a point, that Rabbit would suffer severely somewhere in the wild however it is a lot safer and well kept in its hutch. Then don't have a rabbit in the first place. Just because there are worse fates for it, that doesn't make it acceptable. And personally I'd rather have a chance of being killed for freedom than safety spending my life in a 2 foot by 1 foot box that's bigger than I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellmeister Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Then don't have a rabbit in the first place. Just because there are worse fates for it, that doesn't make it acceptable. And personally I'd rather have a chance of being killed for freedom than safety spending my life in a 2 foot by 1 foot box that's bigger than I am. Woah, I wouldn't personally choose to have a rabbit, and if I did, I'd make sure it had a big enough area to move about in, not just a hutch. I was talking more about dogs and cats who have more of a free roam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Woah, I wouldn't personally choose to have a rabbit, and if I did, I'd make sure it had a big enough area to move about in, not just a hutch. I was talking more about dogs and cats who have more of a free roam. Well I've said before that dogs/cats are one of the few pets that I don't consider cruel to keep. I'm talking more about thinks that are kept in cages/hutches/tanks etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellmeister Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 So fish and hamsters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 So fish and hamsters? Yes. 10char. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diageo Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I'm pretty sure fish don't seem to really care where they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aztec Rose Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Her life is better than it would have been had she'd been bought by someone else. Captive breeding is the mistake. She then needs a good and caring home. And you like her too, Jay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I'm pretty sure fish don't seem to really care where they are. *ahem* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iun Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 *ahem* Silence, or I will batter you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Nothing like a good battering to put you in your plaice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iun Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Nothing like a good battering to put you in your plaice. Oh, god, you couldn't rig this. Don't let this be another thread that skates of into absurdity, it's as if people are just angling to make a big splash by wrapping their jaws around any bait thrown and turn it into something that matches their own school of thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I wouldn't presume to stand on the Shoalders of other forumers to purport an apparent Coralation between our thoughts. Well, it's bed time for me. Sea ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazzybee Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I wonder if miyamoto has seen this. Cue Nntendogs and cats and snakes wii u. This is unbelievable though, some pele are truly fucked in the head with absolutely no empathy, terrifying people. Also fucking stupid. It wont be long before they're caught. I will say though that I find snakes terrifying, they're speed, and how they can just swallow huge shit is mad. Anyone seen videos of (relatively) small snakes eating cows and shit? Insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Oh, god, you couldn't rig this. Don't let this be another thread that skates of into absurdity, it's as if people are just angling to make a big splash by wrapping their jaws around any bait thrown and turn it into something that matches their own school of thought. I wouldn't presume to stand on the Shoalders of other forumers to purport an apparent Coralation between our thoughts. Well, it's bed time for me. Sea ya! Please don't bring up the fish puns again. I mean really, what porpoise will it serve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Hark! Must I Wake to this Wave of discontent? Right, I'm Finished. No more Scamping. Never again shall I Scale the height of my mental Mussel. I have been Schooled. Ps. So Mammal puns are ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Ps. So Mammal puns are ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayseven Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I know the argument's gone a bit stale now, but anyway; Video description; This is our cute dog Bella. She was diagnosed with congenital megaesophagus soon after we found her at 4 months old. Megaesophagus means that her esophagus is enlarged and lacks the muscle mobility to swallow food while horizontal. This is her "Baileys Chair," which she needs sit in while eating and for 10 minutes after she eats. She eats soft dog food with a little water mixed in. She is now seven months old and doing great! The point moogle made about having pets being some sort of brainwashing thing... just struck me as an odd thing to say. Note how Bella rushes to the chair and automatically flips the table part over without being instructed. Is that brainwashing, or learned behaviour that is a necessary step towards her being fed? No matter the environment, a being, be it dog or man, learns how to behave accordingly. I just find it odd to think that just because a pet learns to behave a certain way it's somehow damning, especially when you consider that every single child is taught how to behave, from using a toilet to saying please and thank you. Your position on 'brainwashing' is wrong because the brain's previous settings aren't being tinkered with, the creature is simply adapting. I saw this video and remembered the thread. If the dog didn't have owners to cater for its eating requirements then it wouldn't be as comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 A great post, and with it you raise an interesting point: What is the technical difference between "brainwashing" and regular upbringing/instilling of values, norms and behaviour? People are quick to call, for instance, the upbringing of children in a strict, religious sect "brainwashing" (I'm using quotation marks since I know it's not being used in the original/actual meaning of the word). It's the same with the pets in this discussion. Is it only our personal judgement of the ethical values involved that determine whether something is "brainwashing" or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwolf Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Silence, or I will batter you. Haha, oh Iun, you never fail to make me laugh. I'm not putting any value into the thread, I apologise. I just hope my dogs are happy and from what I can tell they are, well as well as a dog can be with cancer and the other, well she's mad (puppy.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts