EddieColeslaw Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Ok, true. I usually say the same about pay cuts - seeing as the country isn't exactly well-off, people shouldn't be complaining about taking a bit off their pay...at least they still have a job that pays. It's just hard to step down and apply the same logic to something that I'm more directly affected by Good job of scaring everyone with sensationalist hypotheses involving a dystopian country of rabid, uneducated people, media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heroicjanitor Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Yeah I am against these protests. The people marching generally have no idea what they are on about as far as I can tell... They just do it because they are supposed to. Weighing up both sides, I think it would be better if they set up a loan system for college, where they give you the money but you have to pay it back when you get a job. It would be the same thing, except when you actually have a job you can pay it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieColeslaw Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Yeah I am against these protests. The people marching generally have no idea what they are on about as far as I can tell... They just do it because they are supposed to. Weighing up both sides, I think it would be better if they set up a loan system for college, where they give you the money but you have to pay it back when you get a job. It would be the same thing, except when you actually have a job you can pay it back. But which entity could be trusted with such a loan system? Banks are so tight-fisted with giving out money nowadays, I would imagine that if it doesn't generate income in some way, it's too much hassle to set up for plebians - er, students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Yeah I am against these protests. The people marching generally have no idea what they are on about as far as I can tell... They just do it because they are supposed to. Weighing up both sides, I think it would be better if they set up a loan system for college, where they give you the money but you have to pay it back when you get a job. It would be the same thing, except when you actually have a job you can pay it back. That's the system we have. You get the loan throughout your course, then start paying it back once you're earning over (iirc) £15k (although this is different for students paying the new fees, they start paying back after £21k I believe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I think that tuition fees are vital. As time has gone on, the value of a degree to an employer has diminished and an increase tuition fee allows the universities to not only get more funding, but to allow the degree to be worth something again. Less people will go to university on a crappy course just for the "experience". The people who will go to university are ones who wish to study in that field. Besides, they act as if it's "pricing" people out of university...that's not the case at all. You can easily get tuition fee loans and pay it back once you start earning a decent amount. If you're at university, you're likely to go on to get a job in your field and so that's not an issue, and if not...then you don't pay until you do. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Odwin Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Your first and second paragraph contradict each other! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emasher Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Your first and second paragraph contradict each other! No they don't. What he's saying is that tuition fees as they are can be considered expensive enough to deter people who just want to go for the experience of university, but don't really care about studying, however, they're not enough to become a barrier to someone who really wants to study in a particular field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesley Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I DO GAMES DESIGN LOL Fees are fine. How else are the people meant to be paid. Also things in shops cost money. So paying for a degree makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I DO GAMES DESIGN LOL Fees are fine. How else are the people meant to be paid. Also things in shops cost money. So paying for a degree makes sense. Did you also pay for GCSEs or A-levels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Did you also pay for GCSEs or A-levels? I did. 10char Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Did you also pay for GCSEs or A-levels? I'm paying for my A-levels right now. They're expensive. I'm guessing you had the luxury of going to a school that didn't ban you from studying the subjects you wanted to, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I'm paying for my A-levels right now. They're expensive. I'm guessing you had the luxury of going to a school that didn't ban you from studying the subjects you wanted to, though. Eh? You still in Turkey or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Did you also pay for GCSEs or A-levels? The difference here is the level of education I think. GCSEs and A-levels you could effectively teach yourself with the right study materials. University is more hands on, and taught to you by the people who often are the ones who made the findings, but I agree that the fees in England are unjustified. Especially for the first year - it's a bit of a joke. A degree is also seen as putting yourself at a job advantage (whereas just A-levels alone tend not to be enough for what some consider more professional jobs). Universities know this, so the better ones sure will charge for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 The difference here is the level of education I think. GCSEs and A-levels you could effectively teach yourself with the right study materials. University is more hands on, What? It's completely the opposite. University education is almost entirely autonomous. School and A-levels your are led through it by your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 What? It's completely the opposite. University education is almost entirely autonomous. School and A-levels your are led through it by your hand. No, you get taught material (at least in science) by people who are giving their own research as well as other people's research. And that kind of research is expensive. In A-levels it's any old bloke reading out information dictated to them by the syllabus. Then you have practicals that involve pretty expensive reagents, as well as the on site amenities that you almost certainly don't get as many of at schools. Sure you have to do a lot of your own research too, so I don't think the fees should be as high as they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 It's quite different with the humanities, at least here in Denmark. The amount of actual lessons we have is ridiculously low compared to science students, and most of the learning is done through self-studying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Yeah, for humanities contact hours are pretty minimal (I think I had 8 hours over the whole week) and you're given a reading list as long as the books you have to read. Fun times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 It's quite different with the humanities, at least here in Denmark. The amount of actual lessons we have is ridiculously low compared to science students, and most of the learning is done through self-studying. Yeah maybe it's science that has more contact hours. We're expected to spend four times as long self-learning than we have contact hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Yes I don't understand the fees for degrees with low contact hours. If you're essentially doing the overwhelming majority of the work just in libraries and such then the fees don't really make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Yes I don't understand the fees for degrees with low contact hours. If you're essentially doing the overwhelming majority of the work just in libraries and such then the fees don't really make sense. Well the science degrees cost the most for universities, and are essentially subsidised by other course. I think arts cost the least, might be wrong about that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I should note that university is free in Denmark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serebii Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Did you also pay for GCSEs or A-levels? That's a poor argument. GCSEs and A Levels are basic education (I'm just simplifying it here, I'm in no way berating the value of them) while University degrees are Higher Education and as such, you're not just entitled to it. You have to pay, you have to prove that you want to do it and that gives you reason to do it. If university was free, then more would go and just doss about for the nightlife scene and, as such, degrees will lose their value to employers. It's already happening. More and more are asking for Masters degrees for jobs. Then, this whole situation will occur again "Why should we pay to get Masters degrees? We got university degrees for free", and thus Masters would start to lose their value. As humans, we're not entitled to anything other than the basics. We have to earn and pay for the rest. As explained before, you only pay it back once you reach a certain threshold (I believe it's now £17,000) and even then it's a small percentage and the interest rate for the loans is really small so it isn't an issue. Nobody is being priced out of university. The fees are just putting things back to normal. Besides, technically we do pay for GCSEs and A Levels...as a part of our taxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwolf Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I'm biased. Why? Because I paid 30 grand for a course that didn't teach me anything, in the three years, I had two tutors who had either been in the industry or knew something, 1 of them were for film not gaming. I think fees are vital for university, they need funding, but I wish they'd take a look first at the courses before hiking the prices. Throwing an extra 6 grand at my old course isn't going to fix it, sitting down and going ''look we fucked up, how can we use this to our advantage to make it better?'' would be nice. It's a shame, it really is going to put so many people off university, people who genuinely deserve to go but just don't have the funding. Besides, the masters course I was looking at is now cheaper than the course I was originally one, by a whole grand. Fuu..honestly, the money put me off, if my parents hadn't helped me out, I wouldn't have been able to go, it was simple as that, I didn't have the means and because student loan either pay you or expect your parents to pay, there wasn't much choice and I mean that was pushing it at 3 grand never mind 8.. Sigh, shame. /pointless rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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