The Legend of Zelda 3DS

[Grazza]

Hmm... the thing is Skyward Sword proved what could be done with smaller locations... and fewer! I know people complain about retreading footsteps in that game but you rarely (if ever) returned to one of the three area's and did the same thing in the same place... in fact it was mostly a wildly different experience! Anyway... my point is that even though I look forward to HD Zelda... well, HD everything from Nintendo... I don't think VAST OPEN SPACES serve Zelda very well at all... If TP was in HD would people have complained less about it's lifeless chunks of land? Well yes... because the same issues exist.

 

Twilight Princess had exactly the right idea for its overworld. It's just that, as @Retro_Link says, the hardware was a limitation. The way it was really just linked areas, and you had to blast in a cannon to the desert etc. The actual size and scale was just right (for the GC), it wasn't too big.

 

Furthermore, I'd say it had the best desert out of any 3D Zelda (OOT's was just a trail, Skyward Sword's was an obstacle course). TP's desert was actually wide and open, with Bublins to fight and boars to ride (one of the game's greatest innovations, IMO). Other areas also had loads of atmosphere, and that underground passage up to Zora's Domain fired up my imagination more than anything in SS.

 

Huge overworlds allow to you think about where you're going and what you're doing. As long as there's a warping system, it's the best way. It's not just the size, it's all to do with the atmosphere and how gentle they are to traverse. I think @darksnowman used the term "burnt-out" about Skyward Sword's overworlds, which to me is exactly the right criticism of them, as when you make terrain so difficult to move around, it totally destroys the traditional function of an overworld.

 

Urghh, but anyway... as inperfect as the DS Zelda's were, they warmed my heart for being sequels to one of my favourite Zeldas so a 3D addition or a topdown edition on 3DS that follows that timeline? graphical style?? yes please!

 

I agree with you on that, and it really bugs me that some people think there shouldn't be any more "Celda" as there's been enough. If three was the limit, they should never have been on DS, as it couldn't pull it off!

 

By the way, I wonder how good the 3DS is at cel-shading? Just a thought, as I've never actually seen it do it.

[Ronnie]

The fact that you can cross the overworld in a few minutes always ruined the illusion of a big open world to explore IMO. I quite liked what Skyward Sword did, the surface world was enormous, as big as it should be if it were real life, but only small pockets of it were uncovered for you to explore. And each area was PACKED full of stuff to do and explore. Twilight Princess' overworld felt soul-less and empty, Skyward Sword's was alive.

 

Wind Waker's overworld was more like Skyward Sword's than any other game and that was the most incredible Zelda experience yet.

 

Anyway I still maintain more processing power doesn't suddenly equal a better Zelda experience. It may look prettier, and provide a richer experience in terms of eye candy etc but that isn't what makes Zelda games special IMO

[Rummy]

I'd say that especially Majora's Mask, the two Oracle games, and perhaps Link's Awakening are definitely examples of the next Zelda game I'd like to see.

 

They were full of life, that's why. They had story, crafted a whole world, and tended to have a slightly dark/eerie unexplained element to them. LA and MM especially. They had character. Xenoblade is good whilst vast because of its game style, huge and beautiful fields are broken up by battles AND sidequests. Whilst I'd draw a direct comparison of XB's size, Zelda wouldn't work in the same environment with the current mechanic.

 

Above all, I want NINTENDO to bring back that sense of mysticism and overall weirdness to a Zelda game, I love it when they throw in things one wouldn't 'expect' to see in a Zelda game like Batreaux.

 

But even ABOVE all of that, I'd like NINTENDO (or preferably another developer) to reinvent the series.

Ah, well, I guess we think alike! See above! The old games did have things like that thrown in(Error, weird mystics, mushroom/weird witch ladies, and I'm pretty sure the basis for Batreaux; the bat in the cave in LttP).

 

I know Rummy pointed out that it's hard to do that without losing the 'Zelda-ness' of the franchise, but I don't think that would be necessarily the case. There's bound to still be some elements in it which define the main title of the game.

 

When you look at the formula, there are 3 main things that always return: Dungeons, items and boss battles.

A different take on dungeons is really needed if I do say so myself, and the overall pace of a Zelda game could also be changed.

Hello there, you might like a game I've played, it's called Skyward Sword(though maybe it's fairer to say this was a different take on the overworld...almost into dungeons!)

 

Majora's Mask did this brilliantly by introducing the end of the world, which had you focusing on different things every three days (dungeon, side quest, looking for secrets)

Very much so. In fact, it's interesting that MM is such a success/good game, considering it had far below average number of dungeons for a Zelda game. It had a world though, a beautifully crafted world again full of character. People to meet, things to do, sidequests to undertake, and it gave you the feeling of that world by having most of these things are optional. It filled out maingame stuff with the sidequesty bits(rescruing deku princess, finding the sleepy goron, egg quest etcetc), but the amount of stuff that WASN'T main quest is probably twice as much as it.

 

If there is one thing that I am absolutely longing for in a new Zelda, and might be above all the others:laughing:, it would be the vagueness of the original The Legend of Zelda.

You just begin, no hand-holding, and at the mercy of vague hints.

 

And perhaps, just perhaps, the triforce could be put on ice for a few years or so...

 

Definitely agree, not just for Zelda but for all games. It comes back into my previous point about giving the player options. It's hard to fall into a game or feel a real part of a world when it's constantly telling you what to do and holding your hand. The real world doesn't work like that, so why do devs now insist on doing it with video games? I've had a bee in my bonnet about this with Mario since SM64, every wii mario since then has taken you on a very planned and specific linear path(excepting new super mario bros ds/wii/sm3dsl, they're not QUITE as bad, but still slight offenders) and the player has no option or oppurtunity to discover secret things too much, or explore the crafted world. For all the raving about the Galaxies, I miss the little secrets you could get in on in all the old games.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Rummy

[Fused King]

Hello there, you might like a game I've played, it's called Skyward Sword(though maybe it's fairer to say this was a different take on the overworld...almost into dungeons!)

 

Well, I haven't finished it yet, but I've completed the first 4 dungeons, and, to me, they're definitely dungeons because most of us on here can distinguish them as such (meaning that they still have a distinct entry point and boss battle) and the linearity of the dungeons up 'till now baffles me, for I had expected something entirely different from all the vague talk Aonuma and co. were throwing at us.

 

You know what would be awesome,

 

THE LEGEND OF ZELDA: THE TIME LINK

 

in which you can actually visit all the The Legend of Zelda worlds ever created in glorious HD and change the course of that game, creating another 100 timelines along the way:D

 

another idea I've always had in my mind is a different take on the 2 worlds theme (light/dark, twilight/light, past/future).

My idea involves the best of both the realistic world and the Celda world.

So one world is inhabited by a realistic, adult Link and the other with Toon Link, and once they start crossing over, they will meet eachother and also need eachother in order to save that world!

 

HOW AWESOME WOULD THAT BE!

TOON LINK AND REALISTIC LINK SIDE-BY-SIDE!!!

 

I also think co-op should be an option throughout an entire 3D Zelda game someday.

[Rummy]

They'd probably never break that world barrier, a bit too...modern? Self referential? I dunno, but I can't see it happening in Zelda cannon. As for the dungeons, yes they're distinct, but they almost made the overworld itself into dungeons(which Edge also said), you do almost as much outside of a dungeon as in! What would be your idea for a different take on them, though? I must say I rather liked how TP's ice/mountain/whateveritwasdungeonwiththeballandchain happened to be the yeti man's house, and not just another generic cavestyledungeon.

[Ronnie]

I still think the whole 'overworld is a dungeon' thing is rubbish. The dungeons in this game were far more obvious than those in Twilight Princess and as for the overworld, so they added lots to do in them, doesn't make the overworld a dungeon.

 

After all the chat about seamless dungeons and not knowing if you were in one or not, I was left massively disappointed in the finished game. And as much as I loved the third, fourth and sixth dungeons in the game at the time, they were some of the most forgettable and generic ones in the series. The latter ones from TP stick it out in the mind far more.

[Rummy]

I knew when I was in a dungeon, but there's not denying the overworld held similar dungeon type puzzles/challenges etc. My friend didn't seem to know when he was in one, which I thought WAS pretty retarded as it's fairly obvious, but meh. I wouldn't say it was more obvious than in TP though, I don't remember at any point in that being in doubt(I did at times early on in SS, wonder if the overworld was going to be its own dungeon). You say that them adding lots to do doesn't make it a dungeon, then what does? Just having a clear entry/exit/boss?

 

Still, I don't claim it to be seamless, I do consider it to be fairly clear, my point is that there was a similarity in the nature beteween the two.

[Ronnie]

There's always things to do in the run-up to a dungeon, that's what the overworld is for in Zelda games, I just didn't see this one as any different. You were still doing what you always do, making your way through the overworld, talking to people, and eventually getting to a dungeon's entrance. It was no different to any other Zelda game. I expected it to feel far more seamless than it was, no clear entry/exit points, popping in and out of what would traditionally be called a 'dungeon', bosses in the overworld (which to be fair we got, but we also had in TP).

 

Basically, everyone keeps saying 'the overworld in Skyward Sword is like a dungeon in itself'. I just don't see it.

[Deku-Nutz]

It saddens my heart to see so much nitpicking about one of the best Zelda games in years, it really does.

 

Anyway, I think this argument about overworlds and where dungeons begin etc is a little pointless... I don't believe we were ever told that we wouldn't KNOW when we entered a dungeon or not, because of how seemless it is... I think it was meant in the sense that that kind of puzzle solving would exist as part of the larger scope of the world and that indeed was the case... it was done fantastically.

 

I think if anyone is struggling to see how the Overworld is like a Dungeon in SS then they are taking it a little too literally... it isn't meant in the sense that... Oh look, lots of rooms and keys and a boss and an item... it's just meant in the same sort of Puzzle solving progression that is USUALLY isolated in the Dungeons of past Zelda games... I know we have seen it before, in past games, to some extent... but Skyward Sword took it to a new level and had by far the best execution of this idea...

 

@Grazza

 

Let me let you into a little secret... I fooking HATE desert levels... in ANYTHING haha :P I really do, they deperess me... they make me sad... Skyward Sword really pulled something out of the hat for me with the Time Stone idea... it made that area one of my favourite in the whole game, and I am far more Foresty in my tastes of areas in games... Twilight Princess had a vast, beautiful desert... but honestly? How long did you spend there? The idea of having lots of different areas is great I really missed a Snowy region in Skyward Sword for instance... BUT... after sliding down the slope and entering the Mansion in Twilight Princess, did we ever experience that gorgeous area again? Not really... why create something so wonderful for it to be visited once?? And I know that you will tell me that you spent hours drinking in the beauty of these areas in Twilight Princess... but I just find it hard to believe that the majority of people did that... or even if they did (I spent a while gawping at some of the scenery, it was stunning!!! Even with people nitpicking about textures...) it was a brief stay, then on to somewhere NEW.

 

Skyward Sword left you with much less variety in the Areas (When I first heard it was Forest, Volcano and Desert I nearly died inside) but when you actually play the game and go to these areas they don't appear small... Nintendo has made the areas believably huge, even if they dont take you 20 minutes to cross from one side to the other... it's very immersive and very clever, and everytime you have to go back to them they offer something very new! Don't you think that the game could have been done with 6 or 9 areas? each one containing the different gameplay mechanics on display during the multiple visits to the areas? Well sure, they could... but by not doing that it made these areas seem real and alive and bigger and bigger everytime you go there.

 

I'm sad more people didn't see it like this really, but you can't please everyone... my fear? Nintendo will listen... it was narrow minded nitpicking that killed Nintendo's confidence in Wind Wakers style... and it robbed me of a true sequel to one of the most amazing games I have ever experienced... (I still remember getting giddy seeing a Future Games segment in ONM and seeing a picture from Wind Waker and their title of the game as Wind Waker 2... probably due to nintendo saying they were using the engine)

If Nintendo actually thinks they did wrong with Skyward Sword then I will spit... haha... and I realise that Nintendo isn't in the habit of releasing direct sequels or even using the same Art Style in their major console releases... but hey, we got Majoras Mask from OOT... we could have had something similar from Wind Waker...

 

Oh well

[Hamishmash]

The problem I had with Skyward Sword, which a lot of people liked, was the way "they made the overworld into a dungeon" when what I really would love to see, is the "dungeon turn into the overworld".

 

I want to explore actual ruins and temples and maybe some of them are red herrings, sometimes they'd just be a really long cave with a monster at the end, but not a dungeon. Some you might only realise are dungeons until you're already half way through them, or they might be broken up and in slightly different areas, but they connect inside.

 

No "temple" dungeon has ever actually felt like a temple. They're just ... video game levels. And while that is part of the appeal, it is also something I'd like to see experimented with, making them feel as much a part of the world as the towns. Skyloft is excellent, every character has their room, their house, their bed... you can imagine how that works.

 

But then there's temples with moving platforms and switches and block pulling and I'm wondering "this is a temple? How was this ever used as a temple?"

 

It's not something I have that much of a problem with, but it'd be nice if the next game, the dungeons weren't just themed puzzle rooms, and were more genuine Hyrule locations with a visible purpose. "Mines" are sometimes used, but they never seem to be laid out like a mine should be.

 

EDIT: SKYWARD SWORD SPOILERS And yeah, Forest, Desert, Volcano is a really bland selection. They all had surprises, the flooded forest was nice, the desert "ocean" was nice. But there are still types of areas not yet explored in a modern Zelda games enough or at all.

 

I'd love to see the Graveyard areas in 2D Zelda games expanded upon. Proper, huge crypts and maybe all located in an area like the Dead Marshes from Lord of the Rings. Maybe also you could have Hyrule Castle Town... BE a dungeon, with intricate alley ways, rooms and rooftops to explore. A sewer underneath too. Just suggestions.

 

I just... enjoyed a lot about Skyward Sword but was just let down by how very, very similar it was to previous games, despite all the hype about change.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Hamishmash

[-Dem0-]

I want to explore actual ruins and temples

 

No "temple" dungeon has ever actually felt like a dungeon.

 

I think you've made some excellent points, I don't know what SS is like, I've got it but only seen the intro. but that's what i've noticed in other zelda titles perhaps Wind Waker was closest to what you're talking about, but I still don't remeber clearly enough as I haven't played it for over 4/5 years!

 

but i think the problem with making dungeons/temples more like an actual "Temple" with historic artifacts, ruins, covering vast spaces of land etc. is that it may shift the focus of the temple.

 

perhaps the current dungeon format makes it easier for players to navigate. or for example, if a player stops playing halfway through a dungeon and returns to the game after a few days/weeks/months they might still have an idea of what they were doing or where they have to go.

 

but in the end this may boil down to not being enough horsepower to represent a more realistic feeling of a 'Temple'

Edited January 14, 2012 by -Dem0-

[Deku-Nutz]

@Hamishmash

 

I do agree, I like levels that feel like they are part of the world but the world in Skyward sword is old... perhaps in future titles they can experiment with that concept, a little like how the Twilight levels worked in TP... the village for instance, which became a level in itself and navigating it as the Wolf, looking for the tears was littered with little puzzles...

 

The idea of the Surface world was that it was devoid of civilization.. so perhaps it wasn't the best game to try out some of the ideas you are suggesting, as interesting as they may be. As for temples... well perhaps you were taking it a little too literally... the word I mean, and even if the word is to be taken 100% literally I always saw the temples in Zelda to be of the upmost importance... not something for a lowly peasent to go in and out at will... hence traps and puzzles.

[Ronnie]

Great post Deku-nutz. For the record, I adored Skyward Sword. On par with Wind Waker for my favourite ever Zelda. The nitpicking about the overworld like/not like a dungeon is as you say pointless, and not a big deal in the slightest. Personally, I was just disappointed with how standalone the dungeons were, having expected a totally new spin on it from what I'd read previously, but it's not a big deal in the slightest.

 

I definitely agree with you that the three areas were superbly done, they felt massive, realistic and were packed with things to see and do. A real triumph, it also made Hyrule (or what would become it) far more believable, rather than the entire land that you can run across in five minutes.

 

Hamishmash, loved your post as well :-) totally agree re: dungeons

[Rummy]

Hmm, good posts both @Deku\-Nutz. Don't get me wrong on SS, I've said to my friends since the first encounter with the trials that it really makes you realise how much effort they put into crafting each area. Managing to make places in a game multi-purpose/replayable(and there's more after trials too ofc) is surely more difficult than just adding another 6-9 areas to a game. I really appreciated how they did everything with it. My original point though was that no matter how good the game is, it inevitably has to live in its own shadow.

 

I think I like Hamish's idea of dungeons into overworld, though. OoT had very minor elements of it with the NPCs you'd sometimes follow into the temples(sages etc), it gave you a tiny bit more meaning to be there, and a slight more incentive to win! I'd say TP's mansion dungeon which I mentioned earlier also falls into the bracket, somewhat.

[EEVILMURRAY]

(So help me god if it's AlttP in 3D, so help me kami!)

Link to The Past would be amazing given a 3D graphic overhaul, the dimensional scale with dungeons with holes in the floors to drop down. The Keese floating above the screen, making Blinds' heads pop right at you and block your view could be amazingly sexy...

 

Fi is fucking annoying.

Corrected for awesome truth.

tell me about it, I hate having to bring out a stylus only to put it back in after 3 seconds! (repetitively)

I agree, but when it happens I pop it in my mouth.

[-Dem0-]

rumours

 

 

The image was uploaded to the notorious 4chan site, and seemingly shows two new titles that could share a linked theme, similar to The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Ages and The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons. The Japanese titles, when translated, mean Fire Prophecy and Ice Prophecy, with the image also suggesting that these would both be 3DS titles.

 

Source: Nintendolife

Edited January 16, 2012 by -Dem0-

[EEVILMURRAY]

If there's going to be Nintendolife links it's probably best to just link them rather than try image sharing:

 

http://images.nintendolife.com/news/2012/01/rumour_two_zelda_titles_in_development/attachment/0/large.jpg

[-Dem0-]

OK, thank's for the advice

[Dcubed]

An obvious fake but I wouldn't mind another dual version Zelda (ALA Oracles). Would be cool to see them revisit the concept!

[Fused King]

not buying those two titles, not one bit! Edited January 16, 2012 by Fused King

[Magnus]

I like the people in the comments who are saying it seems legit.

 

I've finally found some buyers for my magic beans.

[Fused King]

They'd probably never break that world barrier, a bit too...modern? Self referential? I dunno, but I can't see it happening in Zelda cannon. As for the dungeons, yes they're distinct, but they almost made the overworld itself into dungeons(which Edge also said), you do almost as much outside of a dungeon as in! What would be your idea for a different take on them, though? I must say I rather liked how TP's ice/mountain/whateveritwasdungeonwiththeballandchain happened to be the yeti man's house, and not just another generic cavestyledungeon.

 

Come to think of it, I really haven't the foggiest other than that all of them need to be not linear.

 

I think I know way better of what I dislike than what I'd like to replace it, but I must say that I've never flat out hated a Zelda game, there all packed with such awesome experiences.

 

It's just that I have a feeling NINTENDO can reinvent the Zelda franchise whilst still letting it feel like a Zelda game, but altering or giving us different takes on those elements that have always been in a Zelda game.

 

To me, some of those elements are starting to get predictable.

 

and honestly, I'd actually like some sort of mixture between futuristic elements and ancient elements to be more ominous in the game

+

I've always found it sad that there's usually only 1 main town where all the stuff happens and that , say, the colonies of the Gorons or the Kikwis or the Zoras or the Ritos have far too little going on.

I'd like those places to be more revisitable too, and finding out new quests and funny things to do.

[Jonnas]

I've finally found some buyers for my magic beans.

 

Most people think magic beans are a hoax, but they were pretty legit to me!

I planted one, revisited the spot seven years later and WHAM, it grew a platform that could fly all over the place.

[Fused King]

Most people think magic beans are a hoax, but they were pretty legit to me!

I planted one, revisited the spot seven years later and WHAM, it grew a platform that could fly all over the place.

 

Really?

When I came back there was a wallmart.

[Fused King]

Ye ol' Shigger presents:

Zelda 3DS isn’t as far along as we originally thought. That’s because Nintendo is still considering what path to take for the game.

 

Right now there are discussions taking place as to whether the next Zelda will focus on A Link to the Past or Majora’s Mask, the latter of which would be a remake.

 

Shigeru Miyamoto recently revealed:

 

“We haven’t quite decided yet, whether we’re going to do A Link to the Past, because there’s also the possibility of doing a remake of Majora’s Mask. This is something we’ve certainly been talking about and doing a little bit of experimenting with, to figure out which way we’re going to go.”

 

Additionally, Miyamoto commented on how the 3DS and Wii U provide “lots of good opportunities in terms of thinking about which Zelda game is going to be best for which purpose.”

 

“We have so many goals right now. We’re always looking at expanding our audience and giving people the opportunity to get their hands on 3DS and see what kind of fun gaming experiences they can have. And now, we’re also tasked with pushing the Wii U. So we have lots of good opportunities in terms of thinking about which Zelda game is going to be best for which purpose.”

 

We’ll have to wait “just a little while longer” for specific information about Zelda 3DS. Hopefully something will be ready for next year’s E3.

 

The death of the Zelda franchise on either the handheld or the console:laughing:

Edited June 13, 2012 by Fused King