Ace Attorney: The Turnabout Mafia

[Jonnas]

Fun fact, Dazz: It wasn't that word Interesting that you would try using "Zvarri" in your PM, and it was a decent guess, but the truth is...

 

...Cube looked evil when investigated, actually, which meant you would get an opposite result. That you would target him when you tried to use Zvarri was actually just one of the many weird coincidences one could find in this game.

[Cube]

I won with my second life! So Eevil deserves half the credit.

 

I was extremely unlucky with my first life, as my character is one that has an "evil" feel about him, and my power was forging evidence - something that the mafia also did. Thinking back, I should have lied about that.

 

Also, that write us was awesome.

[Yvonne]

Fantastic game, stayed exciting and tense even with a hundred new concepts going on, still totally accessible to people who don't play the series, and I kept reading long after I died. Good stuff!

[Mr-Paul]

Congrats to the town!

 

We had a strong mafia team, but ReZ and Supergrunch both made stupid early mistakes!

 

Really enjoyed this game, Although lately I've been so busy it was hard to keep up! The last night I had two choices - either kill someone, and make there be fewer town winners, or send Sprout a PM saying I was innocent. I was sure he would target me seeing I was the one everyone was looking to lynch, but no, he targeted EddieColeslaw!

 

I had to be so careful about what I was saying because I knew that Peeps had some sort of post analysis power, but I had no idea that Eddie did as well, so that's probably what sealed it for me, even though I was telling the truth about my targets, I wasn't being completely honest about what I was doing with them.

 

Oh, and the other day, when I said I reverse tracked Sprout and found that Heroicjanitor, Eenuh, and Dannyboy had targeted him, Zell had also targeted him. Because he had garnered plenty of attention the day before, our plan was for him to kill/attempt to kill Sprout, then I could reveal him as the killer, winning total trust from the town. This plan ended up being aborted as there was lots of argument over whether Danny/herojan could be the killer so we aborted the plan for the day and tried to incriminate them. Unfortunately, nothing came of it and Zell ended up being lynched on a hunch rather than evidence!

 

It was the first game for bloody ages that I had been mafia and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

My player of the game was Sprout. Well played, pal.

 

My only complaint was Cube coming back into the game - I don't have any problem with the first one/two people to be nightkilled being brought back, but when someone gets lynched due to their own incompetence, they should be out of the game for good!

[EddieColeslaw]

Epic write-up Jonnas Thank you so much for GMing like a boss!!

 

I was so scared after majority was reached yesterday in case I was hilariously wrong...mr-paul, you're a damn good liar :p I definitely thought there was at least one more mafioso though, so I didn't expect the game to end! Everyone played so well!

 

I had to be so careful about what I was saying because I knew that Peeps had some sort of post analysis power, but I had no idea that Eddie did as well, so that's probably what sealed it for me, even though I was telling the truth about my targets, I wasn't being completely honest about what I was doing with them.

 

Haha, I was right to keep it under wraps then Seems the mafia had a lot of good planning and thinking going on, no wonder I was so confused!

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

BEST. MAFIA. EVER! (And most epic final write-up ever!)

 

Man, I was so worried about the mr-paul lynch! It was good we reached majority without me realising, otherwise I might have got cold feet!

 

This game was probably one of the hardest I've ever played. We were NEVER certain of ANYTHING. Almost no real evidence at any time, and it seemed like none of our info could be trusted completely. I am certainly looking forward to seeing the complete role list.

 

Man Of The Match was Sprout, without a doubt! From his fantastic in-character-ness to his amazing deductions, he really made this game! While I don't know to what extent all the details of his theory was right, Sprout actually figured out two mafiosos in his epic deduction post - that's either great skill or amazing luck! :p

 

Great game, everyone! Definitely my favourite so far, both because of content and theme!

[heroicjanitor]

Great game, I had two major landmarks. First and last to die :p The second one was my own fault though because I knew I shouldn't have come out as a protector. I could easily have just said I saw a guy walking up to the stands. It was a fairly out of character thing for me to do because I'm usually more self aware than that, and right after I posted I wished I could take it back, but it was my first time with information and I got excited! Worth it because of the discussion it caused though Awesome game, Jonnas' write-ups are king.

[Tales]

Whaat, Eddie isn't mafia, how is that possible :p

 

Well, at least I got Diageo. Was he trying to kill me that break(break 4)?

[Jonnas]

Man, I was so worried about the mr-paul lynch! It was good we reached majority without me realising, otherwise I might have got cold feet!

 

Truth be told, I delayed the write-up a bit because I was hoping you'd cancel that lynch. Why? Because I felt it would lead to an anticlimactic finish, and if you had canceled it, the final revelation would've come later, and be perhaps easier to digest.

 

Even after writing all that, I checked the thread again to make sure you hadn't sneaked in your "Objection!" somewhere.

 

 

I might as well post some quick thoughts about the game.

First of all, Sprout was, no doubt, the man of the match. Clever targets, posting in-character, and good deductive reasoning. Deserved win, absolutely.

 

Second, I am disappointed to see the mafia losing by so much, especially because they were actually playing very well (except ReZ, as you saw ). They had a streak of bad luck, unfortunately. Coupled with Sprout playing on the town's side and...well...

 

Third, I already said this in the mafia boards, and I might as well say it again: I feel it was a mistake letting Cube back into the game*, because I didn't want dead players returning, other than the first one killed (and even then, some characters definitely couldn't be brought back, like Nintendohnut), but with so many inactives, and Cube had already revealed everything about his previous character, I felt like I could make an exception. Now I think it was a mistake, as it is unfair for others who die a bit later, or had secrets they hadn't revealed.

*(No offense to Cube, of course)

 

Finally, I would appreciate some feedback on this game. Did you like the unconventional rules (such as common day powers, not knowing each character beforehand, powers not showing up upon death, etc.), is there something that could've been done better, etc.?

I already am aware of a few specific faults, but I will reveal them once I post the roles.

 

Whaat, Eddie isn't mafia, how is that possible :p

 

Well, at least I got Diageo. Was he trying to kill me that break(break 4)?

 

Yes, he was. They had figured out you were a protector, and thought others didn't (they were right). They just didn't think you'd protect yourself again. They covered up that blunder nicely, but didn't realise that Eevil had actually heard the whole thing ("I heard Diageo got his shit ruined"...could he be vaguer than that? )

[The Peeps]

I figured out early on that Tales was a protector. I think he was the only one I fully trusted. Mr-paul that was some great lying but once Eddie came out with her power, the last mafia just couldn't logically be anyone else. I wasn't convinced though!

 

Jonnas as usual you've run an awesome game. I loved my role

 

Knowing everyone's character beforehand was interesting. Ultimately it didn't give anything away and it helped me as I don't know most of the characters!

[Mr-Paul]

Damn you Dannyboy, I would have loved it if you used your objection on my lynch!

 

I don't know the whole role list, but I think there were too many protectors!

 

And the day powers were great, even if they only really properly came into play in the endgame.

[Zell]

Well done Town, you played very well. Especially Sprout.

 

Sorry Jonnas, but I'm going to have to criticise. I've noticed a trend in the winners of your games.

 

Gentleman's Mafia: 8 town winners

Gentleman's 2: 7 town winners

Ace Attorney: 8 town winners

 

I'm not implying that these games were definitely unbalanced, but none of these games ended up being particularly close. I think we (the mafia) played well throughout, but it seemed like we were up against it from the start. After Supergrunch was lynched, I knew the game was lost. We had some decent powers, but the town had 4 protectors?! That's waay too much. And Tales was untargetable. I think the town also had an alignment investigator, a flavour investigator, a tracker, a lie detector, jayseven (who was like an investigator) and others I can't remember right now. As soon as Sprout had come out with his power, he was going to be protected for the rest of the game. He could have investigated everyone by the time we could have killed enough people to gain a majority.

 

We also didn't know a few things which didn't end up helping us. One of our night powers that any of us could use was "roleblock". We were unfortunately not told that roleblocking meant "violently hitting someone over the head". If we knew that was what happened, we would probably have used the power sparingly. But I roleblocked The Peeps on the first night, only for jayseven to record the incident, and darksnowman found out that I roleblocked. So I had to keep hitting people over the head for the rest of the game, making me look very suspicious. Also, I roleblocked mr-paul night 2, but for some reason I tied him up as well. This wouldn't have mattered so much, except for a certain incident that happened night 5.

 

We had a fake PM at our disposal. We could replace any person's normal PM with a PM written by us (or by Jonnas). We ended up not using it that much because we couldn't decide on what we wanted to do. On night 5, I considered sending Sprout a fake PM saying that I'm good, but we ended up deciding to "silence" Sprout instead. However, the flavour text said that Sprout was tied up. This just served to make me look even more suspicious.

 

We also didn't know Supergrunch appeared good when lynched. If we had known that, I wouldn't have voted for him.

 

I feel bad for Diageo. He actually played extremely well and appeared to be very trustworthy. Unfortunately, we ended up using him for an attempted kill on Tales, which led to his lynch.

 

I'm also surprised I wasn't lynched sooner than I was. A roleblocker who hits people over the head and ties them up? I think I was overly paranoid that I would be investigated or lynched the next day which I think affected some of our target choices.

 

I know you want the game to be interesting by giving everyone cool powers, but I just felt the town had too many good powers. My opinion though. Don't get me wrong though, I still thoroughly enjoyed the game.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

With a theme that works because of the great characters, I felt it was brilliant move to have everyone know at the beginning. It also makes a lot more sense in-universe since obviously we all know and can see each other. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing that done in other mafias. Plus, that along with the theme-related names for common mechanics like day and night (and players who makes the effort to stay in character ) really makes for an immersive game experience.

 

Not revealing powers at death makes for a more interesting game, I believe, because it leaves the town to decide whether they can trust what the person has said. However, I'm not sure how keen I am on Supergrunch having a false alignment revealed at "death". We know not to trust certain investigations and investigations of certain people, but we've come to trust the final alignment revelation as true. It's the same reason it was a problem in a previous mafia (I believe it was Diageo's Death Note Mafia) that no alignments were revealed at death - it leaves the town fumbling in the dark with no way of knowing if they're doing well or completely off-track. Plus, it's also a matter of the GM's trustworthiness, something we've discussed a lot before and thus proved we need to be careful with.

 

That being said, having an alignment kept secret due to an inactivity modkill is fair, I think, as that person due to inactivity is pretty irrelevant to the game, and the modkill simply completes the removal of the player.

[Zell]

I have to say that I absolutely loved the theme and I liked how all of our characters were revealed from the start. It meant that people weren't going to get lynched based on their characters.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Damn you Dannyboy, I would have loved it if you used your objection on my lynch!

 

I don't know the whole role list, but I think there were too many protectors!

 

And the day powers were great, even if they only really properly came into play in the endgame.

 

Sorry, no chance of that. Despite my reluctance, you were still my main suspect.

 

And yes, the day powers were great. I think most of the powers were really awesome and appropriate.

 

Well done Town, you played very well. Especially Sprout.

 

Sorry Jonnas, but I'm going to have to criticise. I've noticed a trend in the winners of your games.

 

Gentleman's Mafia: 8 town winners

Gentleman's 2: 7 town winners

Ace Attorney: 8 town winners

 

I'm not implying that these games were definitely unbalanced, but none of these games ended up being particularly close. I think we (the mafia) played well throughout, but it seemed like we were up against it from the start. After Supergrunch was lynched, I knew the game was lost. We had some decent powers, but the town had 4 protectors?! That's waay too much. And Tales was untargetable. I think the town also had an alignment investigator, a flavour investigator, a tracker, a lie detector, jayseven (who was like an investigator) and others I can't remember right now. As soon as Sprout had come out with his power, he was going to be protected for the rest of the game. He could have investigated everyone by the time we could have killed enough people to gain a majority.

 

We also didn't know a few things which didn't end up helping us. One of our night powers that any of us could use was "roleblock". We were unfortunately not told that roleblocking meant "violently hitting someone over the head". If we knew that was what happened, we would probably have used the power sparingly. But I roleblocked The Peeps on the first night, only for jayseven to record the incident, and darksnowman found out that I roleblocked. So I had to keep hitting people over the head for the rest of the game, making me look very suspicious. Also, I roleblocked mr-paul night 2, but for some reason I tied him up as well. This wouldn't have mattered so much, except for a certain incident that happened night 5.

 

We had a fake PM at our disposal. We could replace any person's normal PM with a PM written by us (or by Jonnas). We ended up not using it that much because we couldn't decide on what we wanted to do. On night 5, I considered sending Sprout a fake PM saying that I'm good, but we ended up deciding to "silence" Sprout instead. However, the flavour text said that Sprout was tied up. This just served to make me look even more suspicious.

 

We also didn't know Supergrunch appeared good when lynched. If we had known that, I wouldn't have voted for him.

 

I feel bad for Diageo. He actually played extremely well and appeared to be very trustworthy. Unfortunately, we ended up using him for an attempted kill on Tales, which led to his lynch.

 

I'm also surprised I wasn't lynched sooner than I was. A roleblocker who hits people over the head and ties them up? I think I was overly paranoid that I would be investigated or lynched the next day which I think affected some of our target choices.

 

I know you want the game to be interesting by giving everyone cool powers, but I just felt the town had too many good powers. My opinion though. Don't get me wrong though, I still thoroughly enjoyed the game.

 

I see what you mean, and I think I agree. Obviously my criticisms of the alignment thing weren't aimed at this game in particular, but at the mafia formula in general.

[Mr-Paul]

I have to agree with a lot that Zell says there. I do feel sorry for Diageo, we were using him to kill as it was risky to use me as Nintendohnut could change what I did at any point, and we needed to keep up Zell's innocence as he was already under intense scrutiny. Diageo had a good investigation, so was the safest option. In the end, he was lynched for something that had happened several days earlier, on quite little evidence. Once we had got Nintendohnut out the way I was going to turn a lot more evil, but instead, it all started to fall apart, but I think I held it up quite well at the end.

[Diageo]

I thought this was a fun game to read, even after death. Knowing characters beforehand was cool and I really liked being Apollo.

 

I also agree with Zell on his comments and think I could have lasted for a good while if I didn't have to kill. However with The Peeps and EddieColeslaw, I'm not sure that would be possible anyway.

[Jonnas]

Sorry Jonnas, but I'm going to have to criticise. I've noticed a trend in the winners of your games.

 

Gentleman's Mafia: 8 town winners

Gentleman's 2: 7 town winners

Ace Attorney: 8 town winners

 

This is precisely what I want to avoid I want to make townie roles that can be as beneficial as they are prejudicial (There were a few red herrings that ended up never showing up), but clearly that doesn't work.

 

Maybe I tend to make the mafia underpowered... Seeing your other points, it is clear that's something I need to focus on.

 

We had a fake PM at our disposal. We could replace any person's normal PM with a PM written by us (or by Jonnas). We ended up not using it that much because we couldn't decide on what we wanted to do. On night 5, I considered sending Sprout a fake PM saying that I'm good, but we ended up deciding to "silence" Sprout instead. However, the flavour text said that Sprout was tied up. This just served to make me look even more suspicious.

 

While I think you make several fair points, I should point out that mr-paul was the one who came up with the flavour on that PM. My rewrites would phrase the PMs like I was genuinely writing them, but the content had to come from you.

 

(On a related note, Sprout thought that last PM was suspicious, and similar to Supergrunch's. That was a complete accident, as I word PMs as however I feel like at the time, so the fact that bells and whistles were missing shouldn't be read too much into. My wording is only important if you're a flavour investigator (which in this game was Darksnowman, Eevil, Diageo and The Peeps).

I am considering putting a disclaimer about that, should I ever run another game.)

 

I know you want the game to be interesting by giving everyone cool powers, but I just felt the town had too many good powers. My opinion though. Don't get me wrong though, I still thoroughly enjoyed the game.

 

I also felt this halfway through the game, since a lot of the things I came up with were better suited for townies, though I think Eddie was the only overpowered townie.

Oh, and Nintendohnut's power, which could also use some good polishing.

 

As for the 4 protectors... Criticism noted, as that is something I tend to go overboard with. Protection was supposed to be Eenuh's "weaker" power, and I realized halfway through that Klavier's powers should've been revised entirely, which would leave him without a break power (but more on that later).

Something I should focus on.

 

 

Meanwhile, it's good that "Not revealing powers" and "Every character is known" were generally welcome, especially since they accomplished what they were supposed to

[Cube]

My only complaint was Cube coming back into the game - I don't have any problem with the first one/two people to be nightkilled being brought back, but when someone gets lynched due to their own incompetence, they should be out of the game for good!

 

I partially agree - feels like a half-win, and Diageo would have lasted longer if I didn't repeat what Eevil had said but with my interpretation.

 

Although I disagree with the "incompetence" part. I believe I was in a Kobiashi Maru scenario - lying would have gotten me nowhere so I told the truth, and I was lynched based on what my actual role was.

[Mr-Paul]

I'm sorry, incompetence was a too harsh word to use - I basically mean you had failed to defend yourself from being lynched, and therefore had "lost" the game, which I feel is more of a loss than if you are killed off by the mafia. To be given a second chance I thought was unfair, but Jonnas and you have accepted that my feelings are at least partially shared.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

I may just be completely oblivious, but what was Eenuh's second power apart from protecting? And when did we find out about it?

[Eenuh]

I actually had three powers: protect, roleblock or jailkeep.

 

And something about this was found out early on in the game, where someone said "Eenuh's power can be harmful to the town" and the more I talk the more powerful I would get. But no one ever asked about it so I never shared. =P

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Did we ever actually figure this out? Because the first time I heard about you having multiple powers (apart from the hint early on) was when it was mentioned as an obvious fact in the final write-up, and that confused the heck out of me.

[Eenuh]

Like I said, no one really questioned me about it so I never shared my full role. I never used my other powers anyway so didn't want to put a target on my head. Especially since people were all "omg there's a roleblocker going around and they must be evil!".

 

So no, you didn't know about my multiple powers cause you never asked. The info someone had said I would become more powerful the more I talked, so you could have figured it out from there really.

[Sméagol]

I'm gonna miss adding "pal" to every post I make, pals. =P

[..]

No! I insist you make it you own trademark, and keep adding it to all your posts! Seriously, your posts were hilarious to read, pal!

 

Jonnas, You’ve trumped you Gent’s mafia, at the very least in entertainment value, obviously I can’t comment on the balance. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed reading all of it, eventhough I was even more clueless than the players themselves of course.