An Important message from Ellen (Gay Suicide)

[mcj metroid]

 

A sad topic i'm afraid...

 

What on earth can be done about this?

I'm lucky to live in an area where people don't take the issue of "coming out" very seriously and it's generally looked down upon to speak out against it...

 

I mean ok we were all young once. People get slagged for being fat,ginger and all sorts of things and that's not going to change but this keeps going into adult life for some people.

 

But it seems in parts of the US this sort of thing is still happening..

Edited October 2, 2010 by mcj metroid

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

Denmark is a very tolerant country compared to a lot of other places, and I am thankful that I live here. I cannot fathom why people still can't accept people who are different than themselves. It's horrific.

[Tales]

In my opinion, people who bully someone so much that they commit suicide, should be tried for murder. That is what it is.

[heroicjanitor]

The sad thing is if he hadn't killed himself it may have changed his life for the better. He wouldn't have been seen as the bad guy that's for sure.

[Grazza]

Suicide is always tragic, whatever the reason.

 

I can only suggest people should question their friends if they make derogatory remarks. For example, when one of my colleagues says something like that, I say "You're not homophobic, are you?" The sad thing is, a lot of lads think they've got to be homophobic or they don't fit in.

 

That said, I do support people's right to think homosexuality is wrong. I can't understand why they care what other people get up to in their private lives, but they do have a right to their opinion, as long as they're not bullying about it.

[killer kirby]

I was bullied when I was younger very badly, just made me stronger, all I say is fight for what you believe, fuck the rest of the people and what they say.

 

And it shouldn't revolve around just gay suicide, this has to do with basically online bullying. I was lucky enough to have had finished school when the whole facebook/twitter thingy became a must for everyone. (Shit teachers at school get bullied online now)

[Paj!]

That said, I do support people's right to think homosexuality is wrong. I can't understand why they care what other people get up to in their private lives, but they do have a right to their opinion, as long as they're not bullying about it.

 

It's a foul opinion. It's "support" that lets young people think it's wrong, and so the young bullies as well.

 

Opinions are lovely for us all to have, but sometimes we have to cut the crap and deal with disgusting people on their terms.

[Dog-amoto]

Every time I try to come out by using my Facebook status, people just automatically assume that I've been Fraped.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

It's a foul opinion. It's "support" that lets young people think it's wrong, and so the young bullies as well.

 

Opinions are lovely for us all to have, but sometimes we have to cut the crap and deal with disgusting people on their terms.

They're entitled to their opinion, just like we're entitled to ripping their narrowminded and hateful opinions to pieces.

[Grazza]

It's a foul opinion. It's "support" that lets young people think it's wrong, and so the young bullies as well.

 

Opinions are lovely for us all to have, but sometimes we have to cut the crap and deal with disgusting people on their terms.

 

I know, but free speech is free speech. As long as they're not harassing anyone or inciting violence, they should not be silenced. Example: a preacher standing on the street shouting at individual gay people is wrong; a preacher explaining why he believes what he believes is not "right" but it should still be legal.

 

Another example: some people were fearful of Nick Griffin appearing on Question Time. Instead of gaining support, though, people saw how abhorrent some of the things he had associated himself with were, and the BNP did terribly in the election.

 

At the end of the day, free speech is all important and there's no room for political correctness. Now bullying, on the other hand, we should clamp down on like a ton of bricks, but it doesn't actually matter why someone bullies someone - it's the crime that counts, not the motive.

 

Believe me, you're preaching to the converted. I think homophobes are incredibly stupid and illogical. I do challenge them, which I bet not many people do. There was a girl I fancied at work until she said she hated gay people. I then realised how judgemental and simple minded she must be - not attractive.

[Daft]

Every time I try to come out by using my Facebook status, people just automatically assume that I've been Fraped.

 

That's sad and amusing.

[Debug Mode]

It's a foul opinion. It's "support" that lets young people think it's wrong, and so the young bullies as well.

 

Opinions are lovely for us all to have, but sometimes we have to cut the crap and deal with disgusting people on their terms.

 

They're entitled to their opinion, just like we're entitled to ripping their narrowminded and hateful opinions to pieces.

 

What's wrong with allowing people to think that homosexuality is wrong as a sexual preference? I personally have no problem with it, but there are perfectly decent people I know who although think homosexuality is wrong due to their religious beliefs, have friends who are gay. Yeah sure, people like that are in the minority, but they exist.

 

But it's quite contradictory how because Grazza's opinion differs from yours because it's against your interest and is automatically 'foul'. And Danny-the-Dane, I really hope you're joking as you've made the gross assumption that people like that are all hateful, like my example shows it's not always the case. Think more about what you're saying, as that attitude to those with a different opinion would be classed as bullying, the whole point of this topic, would it not?

[Daft]

What's wrong is that it's an opinion bore out of ignorance, fear and irrationality. There is no justification whatsoever for homophobia. None.

 

The problem is indeed society currently allows for, and often implicitly encourages, that view to be seen as justifiable. Heteronormativity is rife, for example.

[Debug Mode]

What's wrong is that it's an opinion bore out of ignorance, fear and irrationality. There is no justification whatsoever for homophobia. None.

 

The problem is indeed society currently allows for, and often implicitly encourages, that view to be seen as justifiable. Heteronormativity is rife, for example.

 

This is definitely correct for those who are not dictated by religious beliefs. (Well actually I still find most opinions from religion to be irrational but now isnt the time for that..)But the friends I have with this opinion have been going to church every week for their life, so although I'd never say it to them, they are pretty much brainwashed to think things are wrong without much independent thought on the matter.

 

Yet they are Christians who see the contradictory attitude exhibited by other followers which only inspires an endless cycle of hatred.

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

What's wrong with allowing people to think that homosexuality is wrong as a sexual preference? I personally have no problem with it, but there are perfectly decent people I know who although think homosexuality is wrong due to their religious beliefs, have friends who are gay. Yeah sure, people like that are in the minority, but they exist.

 

But it's quite contradictory how because Grazza's opinion differs from yours because it's against your interest and is automatically 'foul'. And Danny-the-Dane, I really hope you're joking as you've made the gross assumption that people like that are all hateful, like my example shows it's not always the case. Think more about what you're saying, as that attitude to those with a different opinion would be classed as bullying, the whole point of this topic, would it not?

You're missing the point entirely. I'm not against the opinion because it's different than mine. Trust me, I of all people value freedom of opinion and accept other opinions than my own. What I am against is stupidity, ignorance and irrationality. I would never harrass anyone, nor was my post an incentive to do so. I am against bullying. But just as people are free to express opinions that are born from mindless indoctrination, fear and irrationality, so am I free to challenge those opinions and point out how they are ridiculous, make no sense and help maintain prejudice and hatred towards certain groups of people. Daft said it best: There is no justification for homophobia.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Dannyboy-the-Dane

[Raining_again]

Man that is so sad

 

I think I can identify in a different way, as I was bullied a lot as a teen. It is incredibly hard and at times you do contemplate suicide... and it seems some have obviously gone the whole way and done it. I think there is considerably more tolerance of anything out of the ordinary in big cities, compared to the smaller country towns.. I live in a small town where people tend to know one another and they can be very unaccepting. In terms of ANYTHING out of the ordinary... being a catholic, being gay, being foreign, etc.

 

The kids were very intolerant to me coming from a different country, and having a skin condition. I had nothing short of living in hell.. but I stayed strong.. because I had support. I suppose my "thing" wasn't being like gay, it was there and you couldn't miss it. I had doctors, family and some friends who understood, whereas a gay person doesn't always have that.

 

I have a respect for gay people who can come out as they are and be proud. I find, in my experience, they are a lot more fun loving and nicer people in general!

[Diageo]

I would think that if a certain person was going around town preaching about how he dislikes homosexuals, it would be just as bad as if he was going around saying he disliked black people. It's wrong either way.

 

I'm pretty sure someone said something about a preacher. This isn't just a random post.

[mr_bogus]

I would think that if a certain person was going around town preaching about how he dislikes homosexuals, it would be just as bad as if he was going around saying he disliked black people. It's wrong either way.

 

Can relate to that - growing up in white rule South Africa in the 80s, my parents, aunts uncles etc would find it unthinkable to consider an interracial couple (ironically since my family's middle eastern), because all you saw on tv, adverts, billboards etc were white couples.

 

Then in the 90s the country became democratic & suddenly there were lots of mixed couples in public, which was a shock to most people at first. Within a couple of years people got used to it, and nowadays it's unusual to have an ad without mixed races there.

 

So for someone to think same sex couples seem completely wrong, could have a lot to do with the fact that everywhere you look on tv, newspapers, magazines, websites, shop windows, etc it's always straight couples.

 

Problem is, put a same sex couple cuddling on a billboard tomorrow and watch the complaints flood in.

[nightwolf]

I can't really say much as everyone has already mentioned what I would have, it is sad that a person may see only death as a way to end such a torment and that someone could be so cruel to push someone to that.

 

I find these days there isn't many people I know who weren't bullied to some degree as a child/teenager, these days even if you are the 'popular' kid there is still something that can bring you down and cause insults/physically abuse to come to you. This is unfortunate that children believe this is an acceptable thing to do and that so very very often nothing is done to stop any of it. If there is, it is usually the wrong way to handle it.

[Daft]

Just happened across this article which discusses masculinity's part in all this.

 

The Failure of Masculinity

[chairdriver]

That demonstrates nicely why I get so angry at queer people who aren't interested in gender discourse. Queer theory was born out of gender/feminist theory (Judith Butler I think was the first to consider it in an academic light), which is not surprising because the concept of homosexuality within the context of social interaction and social hierarchy is so inherently wound up with gender roles -- homophobia moreso.

[Daft]

It's all a bit of a head fuck. So many different ideas are involved; the gaze, biopower and discourse - just rolling through Foucault contribution. Probably most important is Derrida's notion of deconstruction? I dunno. My head spins.

[EEVILMURRAY]

In my opinion, people who bully someone so much that they commit suicide, should be tried for murder. That is what it is.

And if someone bullies someone into self harm they're guilty of assault/ABH? Someone tops themselves because they got fired means the work bosses are liable for a murder charge? Where's the line here?

[mr_bogus]

And if someone bullies someone into self harm they're guilty of assault/ABH? Someone tops themselves because they got fired means the work bosses are liable for a murder charge? Where's the line here?

 

Simple: If it's a hate crime, then there's your line.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Simple: If it's a hate crime, then there's your line.

So it's ok for the goth/emo example then?

 

Although taking the all-powerful Wikipedia explanation a hate crime being "when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her perceived membership in a certain social group" you could ignore my second example because "shit employees" aren't a 'social group'.