Smoking

[Fierce_LiNk]

I feel the need to quote myself.

 

Yes but just mentioning that makes your post all the more rediculous. You are basically telling us to ignore the major flaw in your argument because you know thats where it all falls down.

 

That's pretty much it. How can we ignore the one vital bit which seperates cigarettes from alcohol?

 

If smoking didn't affect other people, we wouldn't care. But it does, so we do. Seems entirely fair.

[Raining_again]

Well actually drunk people are fucking dickheads too. I HATE being around drunk people, moreso than smokers.

 

And on many occasions i've been choked by the pollution from some useless twat who can't get their car a service, or a street that's just plain chocablock.

[Ashley]

Oh that's what I was going to say. Dazz, you live in Birmingham. Surely walking down Corporation Street is worse than walking past a smoker?

[Sheikah]

Well actually drunk people are fucking dickheads too. I HATE being around drunk people, moreso than smokers.

 

And on many occasions i've been choked by the pollution from some useless twat who can't get their car a service, or a street that's just plain chocablock.

That's a problem with the person's personality rather than the drink itself. Plus drunkards can be annoying, but don't exactly cause damage to your health. If you smoked then you probably won't be as annoyed by smoke around you too.

[Debug Mode]

I'm just going to admit the fact I'm actually struggling to argue back to some of the points your making Sheikah. I think the fact I rarely encounter such situations, even back when I didn't smoke, is clouding my judgement a fair bit.

 

As I said, and shall end the argument on, is the fact I do think the people that do such things have bad manners to not consider the well being of those around them, but they have the freedom to be a dick if they want. I don't do it, but that's personal choice, people may have noticed on the meet up I tried to smoke away from the circle we were mainly in because I found it unfair to those who don't smoke etc.

 

You think it's wrong to smoke in front of entrances and in places that obstruct non-smokers paths, I agree but also feel it's wrong to kinda preach about how wrong and idiotic they are etc, but I am lacking the capacity to put further effort into my dwindling debate heh.

[Raining_again]

That's a problem with the person's personality rather than the drink itself. Plus drunkards can be annoying, but don't exactly cause damage to your health. If you smoked then you probably won't be as annoyed by smoke around you too.

 

Same goes for smokers though...

 

selfish = smoke in your face without asking

 

selfless = smoke with smokeyjo friends or not at all.

 

I found when I spent time with non smokers I wasn't really all that interested in lighting up. On the other hand I was smoking 40 a day WITH smoking friends, haha.

 

 

I dunno you could say the same for anything that assholes do. I am very very susceptible to infection.. yet people still cough in my face knowing how very sick I could get (and have gotten) People still push me knowing I have arthritis. It's all one in the same :shrug:

[Beast]

I totally agree with everything Sheikah has said. I'm sorry but alcohol and smoking are two different things. Yes, they both may harm your body but with drinking, you're not harming others or choking them. Most of the smokers I have met are very selfish and rude, there was one time when they were in the doorway smoking and I walked past and started choking and I heard one of them say "Oh look, he's over-exaggerating a bit, isn't he?"...I felt like stuffing the fag down his throat because I had a sore throat for a while then. I'm not as bad as that now but I used to be, now I cough a little and end up with a sore throat for a bit but it goes. I still don't, and probably never will, understand what is wrong with the smoking shelter...

 

And Ashley, I've never walked around there, I don't go into town. I go to Solihull so I wouldn't know. The last time I went into town was when I was eight and I can't remember back then, haha.

[Sheikah]

As an aside I will say that although there is clear contrast between smoking and alocohol in terms of health effects, I also believe that there should be stricter regulations on cheap alcohol. Not banned, but certainly none of this cheap shit cider that supermarkets flog. It's one of those cases where you sacrifice a slice of freedom for health and wellbeing, but at the end of the day, it's done with the best intentions.

 

Drinking can't harm others directly, true, but it doesn't always stop people harming themselves. I support the idea of a steeper minimum charge on alcohol to stop the kind of antioscial white lightning type drinks that really don't help anyone at all.

[Twozzok]

What I don't understand is why you're lumping smokers into one big group.

 

I smoke. I don't stand in doorways, I don't blow it in peoples faces, I don't light up in queues, I don't even like smoking indoors. What gives you the right to lump me in with people that do all the above?

[Sheikah]

What I don't understand is why you're lumping smokers into one big group.

 

I smoke. I don't stand in doorways, I don't blow it in peoples faces, I don't light up in queues, I don't even like smoking indoors. What gives you the right to lump me in with people that do all the above?

I never did lump you in with anyone?

[Raining_again]

What I don't understand is why you're lumping smokers into one big group.

 

I smoke. I don't stand in doorways, I don't blow it in peoples faces, I don't light up in queues, I don't even like smoking indoors. What gives you the right to lump me in with people that do all the above?

 

fucks sake thank you!!

 

the only reason everyone has a bad story to tell is because the assholes are obvious. The non assholes aren't.

 

For example sheikers story...there could have been 20 or more smokers in that queue who were being considerate. Because they had no cigs in their mouth you are obviously gonna assume they are non smokers... when infact a good handful of them could be infact.... dare i say it....those RARE people who actually consider others.... zomg.

[Sheikah]

That has nothing to do with his point (that I was lumping him in a group of people who all blow smoke in faces and stand in doorways).

 

The previous debate was about whether smoking in doorways was right or wrong. Not whether all smokers do that or not.

[Sheikah]

Wait, what's going on here Sheikah? : ]

Pwning noobs, lol joke

[Twozzok]

I wasn't referring to you Sheikah, more Dazz. Who has the 'they' going on.

 

Stereotyping makes you sound ignorant as shite.

[EEVILMURRAY]

Surely if you're so fixated on sensible choices, get the fuck off the computer, as we all know there's health hazards with the majority of the shit we do through out the day.

Surely staying on the computer would be the more sensible choice as opposed to going outside leaving him vunerable to all the health hazards? Or are you trying to get him injured? For shame.

I think what needs to be justified is how hostile you are because of the minimal health risk you suffer from it. Go chase a bigger fish mate, I'm sure pollution posed by cars completely dwarfs the second hand smoke problem.

Cars that throw up large amount of smoke are rare (at least where I live) and you don't see people lining their cars around the entrance to a pub/whatever revving their engines.

That's a problem with the person's personality rather than the drink itself. Plus drunkards can be annoying, but don't exactly cause damage to your health. If you smoked then you probably won't be as annoyed by smoke around you too.

Same example with some smokers who have gone too long without a cigarette.

[Sheikah]

Same example with some smokers who have gone too long without a cigarette.

It isn't because you can drink socially around people, but if you're smoking around people you are causing damage. Hence not really comparable.

[Twozzok]

Also, to actually answer the question in the OP.

 

I started because I liked the smell, I carried on because I enjoyed the act of smoking. From the lighting to getting the last drag. It is, for me, enjoyable.

[EEVILMURRAY]

It isn't because you can drink socially around people, but if you're smoking around people you are causing damage. Hence not really comparable.

I'm not disputing that. I'm just saying there can be an attitude shift on the other side.

[Jimbob]

The previous debate was about whether smoking in doorways was right or wrong. Not whether all smokers do that or not.

 

It varies on how leniant the land-lord is. Some pubs i know allow smoking in the doorway if it is raining, just as long as they breath the smoke outside. Other pubs i know have a strict policy of no smoking in the doorway, prevents people from coming in and out of the place. And doesn't give a good impression either.

[Beast]

I wasn't referring to you Sheikah, more Dazz. Who has the 'they' going on.

 

Stereotyping makes you sound ignorant as shite.

 

Well, as I have explained in some posts, I was more on about the people who are selfish or ignorant and don't think of others. I've already said that I don't mind smokers but I hate the ones who are selfish, that is what I mean by 'they'.

Edited September 13, 2010 by Animal

[nightwolf]

I never did lump you in with anyone?

 

Actually you've been tarring all smokers with the same brush since you jumped in here.

 

Drinking can do as much damage as smoking - it can destroy families if the person is a violent drunk, cause major accidents and kill if those feel they can drink when drunk.

 

Sure it's not the same damage, but it's silly to think that it's not comparable, you could quite easily compare all drunks, including caffeine.

[Ashley]

And Ashley, I've never walked around there, I don't go into town. I go to Solihull so I wouldn't know. The last time I went into town was when I was eight and I can't remember back then, haha.

 

Well excuuuuuuse me princess

[Sheikah]

Actually you've been tarring all smokers with the same brush since you jumped in here.

 

The lumping people statement was with regards to 'all smokers stand in doorways, etc'. Feel free to quote part of my posts that states "I believe all smokers stand by doorways or in queues pissing people off. You won't be able to.

 

Drinking can do as much damage as smoking - it can destroy families if the person is a violent drunk, cause major accidents and kill if those feel they can drink when drunk.

 

This is entirely due to the person in question drinking. Why are they drinking to begin with? The drink is hardly the cause of their psychological problems.

 

The initial points raised were that drinking as an 'evil' cannot be compared to smoking as it does not directly affect other people when it is consumed. If people become more violent when drunk, that's because they are violent people who have abused drink. Here's a good example that cuts through this argument: should we ban knives because they can be misused? No, because used properly they cause no harm to others. Same with alcohol. While you could say a smoker can smoke properly by only smoking in isolated areas, many people do smoke in the vicinity of others or their children, not all, but at least enough to consider cigarettes more dangerous. The day we start blaming alcohol for people's conscious choices is the day when you may as well throw the book at common sense.

Edited September 14, 2010 by Sheikah

[Dannyboy-the-Dane]

you're talking out of your ass.

You know, Sheikah, it'd be nice if you'd drop the attitude. I don't actually disagree with your points, but you're being awfully arrogant.

[Sheikah]

I actually edited that out. But it was her who initially falsely accused me of something, so it was pretty much deserved.

 

How would you like it if someone wrongly accused you of stereotyping people over something when you hadn't? And they would most certainly be talking out of their ass if they did.