The Avengers

[chairdriver]

Ant-Man and Wasp will clearly be Avengers 2, considering they're doing an Ant-Man film. Would be a joke to have Sersi, to tie into the Immortals mythod.

 

Watched Thor again last night and noticed.

 

the older doctor guy is obviously controlled by / is Loki at the very end but watching it again it totally holds up to consider him to be Loki the entire time. He's very subtly negative about Thor throughout and a lot of his actions seek to undermine or distract Thor from his journey. He also spends a lot of time trying to keep Jane (who's a few months work away from reversing Thor's banishment) from spending time with Thor. Of course, the clever part is that he's a legit character without being Loki, but it's a fun way to think about him.

 

I said this immediately after coming out the cinema of seeing Thor and everyone was like "no John stop being stupid", where it's clearly there. Or at least written so it's ambiguous.

[Shorty]

Dare I say something so obvious as the fact that their eyes glow blue when they're being controlled?

[Happenstance]

Marvel Looking At New Hulk Movie For 2015

 

My favourite subplot in The Avengers, if I can call it that, is the arc that Bruce Banner goes through. He’s such a problematic character for me, generally, but Joss Whedon seems to have nailed his insecurities rather brilliantly.

 

And of course, when he does Hulk out, he gets at least two show-stealing moments. Much better than previous incarnations, who flip-flopped between big drip and fairly uninteresting SMASH monster.

 

I’m not alone in my liking of this particular portrayal of the Hulk – many have praised Mark Ruffalo, and been genuinely excited about his tole in the film. So much so that the tide of public opinion seems to have swept up Marvel’s plans and turned them around.

 

Paul Gitter, Marvel’s merch man, has been speaking to Forbes (via The Playlist). Amongst much chat about toys, there’s this little tease:

 

If Hulk’s successful turnaround continues, Gitter says Marvel “will spin him off to a stand-alone program next year,” supported by a big budget franchise movie in 2015. The entertainment studio is also exploring ways to promote Hulk as a “corporate icon,” similar to MetLife’s usage of Peanuts’ Snoopy, where The Hulk’s image conveys a message about channeling strength to overcome workplace challenges.

 

It’s the bit in the middle about a movie that I particularly liked… and the reminder that Snoopy is now a corporate icon that I particularly disliked. It could almost turn me green.

 

So, despite Kevin Feige’s repeated previous comments that a standalone Hulk wouldn’t be worth the risk, Marvel are now talking about “a big budget franchise movie in 2015.” They’ve got Mark Ruffalo contracted, which is a relief, so next up, I’d like to hear that they’re getting suitable talent behind the camera.

 

I wonder if Joss would fancy it?

 

Guillermo Del Toro and David Eick were working on an ABC show that would bring The Hulk back to primetime. Whether or not this sudden upswing in vocal public support for Big Green will actually help or, perhaps by means of the movie, kill these plans remains to be seen.

 

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/04/30/marvel-looking-at-hulk-movie-for/

[Mokong]

Just back from seeing The Avengers for a 2nd time.

 

Still awesome second time round, still blew me away. And even though I knew when all the funny moments/lines were coming I still couldn't help but laugh.

 

In fact there were a few times when me and my mate (who was also on his 2nd viewing) started laughing just before the upcoming funny moment/line cause we knew what was coming and just thinking of it made us laugh

 

And noticed a few things I hadn't noticed before... such as...

 

 

When Tony starts poking Banner in the lab and seeing if he'll change, then Cap comes in and they start asking Banner what his secret is.

 

Tony names off a few things, the last being "a big bag of weed"

 

We never noticed that the first time as we couldn't stop laughing at the initial poking of Banner then. Then when we heard that this time we laughed even harder

 

 

 

Also noticed something bout Black Widow I didn't fully cop before...

 

I knew after her "moment with Hulk" on the Hellicarrier that she was obviously very shaken by him.

 

But it was only now that I realised she was actually terrified of him from that start. Can't believe I didn't see it first time. When she goes to meet Banner to get him to come with her. I thought she was just nervous when I first saw it but she is genuinely shitting herself.

 

Also, forgot to mention this before but how awesome does her clevage look in her intro scene *drool*

 

 

Watched Thor again last night and noticed.

 

the older doctor guy is obviously controlled by / is Loki at the very end but watching it again it totally holds up to consider him to be Loki the entire time. He's very subtly negative about Thor throughout and a lot of his actions seek to undermine or distract Thor from his journey. He also spends a lot of time trying to keep Jane (who's a few months work away from reversing Thor's banishment) from spending time with Thor. Of course, the clever part is that he's a legit character without being Loki, but it's a fun way to think about him.

 

 

I said this immediately after coming out the cinema of seeing Thor and everyone was like "no John stop being stupid", where it's clearly there. Or at least written so it's ambiguous.

 

 

Dare I say something so obvious as the fact that their eyes glow blue when they're being controlled?

 

 

Regards the above and Thor...

 

 

Given how Loki had to "enter" the Earth through the Cube I'm thinking the after-credits of Thor needs to be explained better by Marvel. When you see it you assume Loki is on Earth and controlling Selvig, but from the start of Avengers we see he wasn't yet on Earth and it is then he controls Selvig.

 

I think he is just atral-projecting himself at the end of Thor and is just seeing through Selvig, maybe has some minor control or power of suggesting as seen by the repetition of speech but not full control.

 

Anyway as for if Loki had been controlling Selvig for the whole of the Thor film, I say no, mainly cause of the scene when Selvig is in a book store and spots a book on Norse Mythology and reads it to brush up a bit on it. If Loki was controlling him he would have no need to do this.

 

Yes he seems to be wanting to get rid of Thor, but I think that's more just concern for his friend. He can see she is starting to like Thor and he thinks Thor is a bit of a nut-job. So is just trying to protect his friend.

 

 

 

I felt

there was far too much emphasis put on Coulson's death. There were like 3 scenes where mourning him was the main point. But worse is that ~50 other SHIELD agents had also died, as well as Loki's agents which were actually friendlies, and no one seemed to care about them. No one cared that Captain America threw a man off the heli-carrier, not even a hint of like "Oh that was really bad, but possibly necessary" / no one saw.

 

 

Just on the bolded bit, something else I copped on 2nd viewing.

 

 

I think the only "friendlies" on Loki's "team" are Hawkeye, Selvig and the one other guy he "turned" at the start of the film. All the others are actually mercs. The first time you see Selvig and Hawkeye in "Loki's Lab" just before the Germany bit, Selvig asks Hawkeye where he got so many people to help out, to which Hawkeye responds "SHEILD has a lot of enemies" or something like that. So all the guys who stormed the Hellicarrier with Hawkeye were just hired guns in SHEILD uniforms, but not "turned" SHEILD agents working with Loki.

 

 

HOW WILL THANOS FACTOR IN>>>!

 

Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure Fox have as part of the X-Men rights, the rights and/or options for ALL mutant characters. Pretty sure I read that somewhere.

 

Which is why I'm guessing there is no mention of mutants in any of the "Avenger" films.

 

Though some people think there was a cheeky reference to the X-Jet in Iron Man 1, though it was kinda vague as it just says "SR-71 Balckbird" which is a real jet and one that the X-Jet was modeled after.... or maybe Marvel had a bit of wishful thinking going on at the time.

 

 

 

But yeah pretty sure Fox have rights to all things mutant from the Marvel comics.

 

God that mess with the film rights are pissing me off

If Marvel were smart they should have put in some sort of "get-out" clause or something.....gggggrrrrrr....HULK MMMMMAAAADDDDDDDDDD

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

Oh and I do have plans to see The Avengers for a 3rd time this Sunday with another cousin... and my mate is thinking of tagging along again too, haha. We can't get enough

 

I need a cosmic hero introduced. But someone relevant. I need Ms. Marvel. Maybe too awkward to introduce...they could just have a few joke new members in Avengers 2, and you are forced to assume they were found and assimilated.

 

I'd love Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch (heavily based on their Ultimate universe versions). Adds more superpower to the team/could have hints of mutant persecution. Are these films allowed to even mention mutants though? Does Fox have the rights to that end of things entirely?

 

Edited April 30, 2012 by Mokong

[Happenstance]

Just on the bolded bit, something else I copped on 2nd viewing.

 

 

I think the only "friendlies" on Loki's "team" are Hawkeye, Selvig and the one other guy he "turned" at the start of the film. All the others are actually mercs. The first time you see Selvig and Hawkeye in "Loki's Lab" just before the Germany bit, Selvig asks Hawkeye where he got so many people to help out, to which Hawkeye responds "SHEILD has a lot of enemies" or something like that. So all the guys who stormed the Hellicarrier with Hawkeye were just hired guns in SHEILD uniforms, but not "turned" SHEILD agents working with Loki.

 

Yeah I caught that bit as well. Its possibly they were modern day Hydra agents or maybe AIM.

 

 

There was an interview recently where they were mentioned and it was said that they are in a grey area at the moment and could potentially be used in either franchise.

 

[ReZourceman]

Actually, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are owned (or rather can be in) Marvel Studios movies or Fox movies. I saw an interview with Kevin Feige recently in which he confirms both them and the Skrulls could be in any, and the reason they went with Chituari in this movie was to not further complicate it by having shape shifters.

[chairdriver]

I guess they'd just avoid the whole children of Magneto thing, and just have them gypsy-born?

[Mokong]

Actually, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are owned (or rather can be in) Marvel Studios movies or Fox movies. I saw an interview with Kevin Feige recently in which he confirms both them and the Skrulls could be in any, and the reason they went with Chituari in this movie was to not further complicate it by having shape shifters.

 

But I thought the Chituari were just another name for the Skrull in the Ultimate Universe?

 

Sorry my Ultimates knowledge is VERY limited.

 

 

I guess for any character that is in this "grey area" then it just a matter of whichever studio uses them first.... though I would find it odd if mutant characters suddenly appeared in the Marvel Film Universe when there's been no reference to the exsistance of mutants in it so far in 6 films.

[ReZourceman]

Oh. In after Happenstance, lol.

 

--------

 

Mokong, the Chituari are kind of the Skrull version, but they don't shape shift. Although I actually haven't read Ultimates Vol 2/2 Vol 1/2 in a couple of years. But yeah.

 

From the interview it is actually a case of they could both use them if they wanted, not a kind of "who uses them first gets them" deal, and also he basically says that Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch and Skrulls are the only characters in that grey area.

 

Here is the interview.

 

 

--------

 

Anyway, I am also back from the second viewing. I have several things to say, some of which are a mildly big deal in my eyes, but mostly are not.

 

A) I saw it in 3D again, because timing wise my cinema are still chodes. I don't know if it was down to position (I was A LOT further back this time) but the 3D was WAY better. And when I saw Titanic 3D, I was further back STILL, and so I am starting to think that the further back, the more obvious and dramatic the 3D is. I would go as far as to say, the few times 3D was utilisied it was actually alright.

 

Obviously still not good. But lol.

 

Now some minor spoilers.

 

B) And this is pure mildness, with added cream (to tone down the spice). At the bit where Black Widow is in Russia at the beginning, it pans back to those weapons and such. There is also a portrait. Now I only glimpsed it for a brief second, before the camera went away, but in that instant I thought it looked a lot like Mandarin. Could just be me being ridiculous though. I guess there are a lot of moustached guys in Russia, and also - why would there be that there?

 

C) When in the SHIELD helicarrier, scanning all wireless cameras for Loki, there are several screens either side with other "persons of interest" who SHIELD are actively looking for. Unfortunately, again I noticed too late and didn't get a proper look, but there are visible photos, and possibly names. Bit annoying that I missed.

 

D) Iron Man uses his single use "epic red laser" thing on re-spinning the Helicarriers propeller. The used cartridge shoots out of his arm after use, just like in the park in Iron Man 2.....it was a nice little bit of continuuity that I enjoyed seeing....which also brings me to....

 

E) When he has his Mk VII armor on, he uses an epic red laser again......and I believe it is the same epic red laser....except it isn't single use. No cartridge, and the gun bit of it neatly retracts into his arm.

 

 

Yes.

[Happenstance]

But I thought the Chituari were just another name for the Skrull in the Ultimate Universe?

 

Sorry my Ultimates knowledge is VERY limited.

 

 

I guess for any character that is in this "grey area" then it just a matter of whichever studio uses them first.... though I would find it odd if mutant characters suddenly appeared in the Marvel Film Universe when there's been no reference to the exsistance of mutants in it so far in 6 films.

 

Yeah im pretty sure the Chituari are just Ultimate Skrulls.

 

Maybe the mutants in the Marvel Movie Universe just arent public knowledge yet. It may get a bit confusing if both Fox and Marvel are using mutants but I wouldnt think the concept of mutants would be part of Fox's deal with Marvel and it isnt Marvels job to line up their fiction with Fox's if its not going to work.

[Mokong]

 

 

Mokong, the Chituari are kind of the Skrull version, but they don't shape shift.

 

Someone needs to correct this on Wiki then if that non-shapeshifting you mention is correct so... (I know I shouldn't take Wiki too seriously but it was the only place I seemed to be able to find proper mention on the Chituari to get info)

 

The first alien shapeshifters introduced in the Ultimate Marvel Universe are known on Earth as the Chitauri,

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skrull#Ultimate_Skrulls

 

 

E) When he has his Mk VII armor on, he uses an epic red laser again......and I believe it is the same epic red laser....except it isn't single use. No cartridge, and the gun bit of it neatly retracts into his arm.

 

 

Yes.

 

 

When Tony starts using it, Jarvis says "You'll run out of power before you cut through the armour" which means, yes it is indeed now tied into the suits power supply and not a single use reloadable weapon now

 

 

Maybe the mutants in the Marvel Movie Universe just arent public knowledge yet. It may get a bit confusing if both Fox and Marvel are using mutants but I wouldnt think the concept of mutants would be part of Fox's deal with Marvel and it isnt Marvels job to line up their fiction with Fox's if its not going to work.

 

Yeah but imagine how annoying it could then be if the had mutants in the Avengers films but no mention of any of the X-Men, it wouldn't make sense

 

Can we just reboot the timeline to correct the errors of film rights contracts made what 12 years ago?

Edited April 30, 2012 by Mokong
Automerged Doublepost

[Happenstance]

Someone needs to correct this on Wiki then if that non-shapeshifting you mention is correct so... (I know I shouldn't take Wiki too seriously but it was the only place I seemed to be able to find proper mention on the Chituari to get info)

 

I just checked my TPB and the Chitauri do shape shift

 

Can we just reboot the timeline to correct the errors of film rights contracts made what 12 years ago?

 

I'll get right on that :p

[Mokong]

 

C) When in the SHIELD helicarrier, scanning all wireless cameras for Loki, there are several screens either side with other "persons of interest" who SHIELD are actively looking for. Unfortunately, again I noticed too late and didn't get a proper look, but there are visible photos, and possibly names. Bit annoying that I missed.

 

 

 

 

Interesting, I didn't notice that myself but will try to keep any eye out so for my 3rd viewing on Sunday

[Happenstance]

Yeah I had noticed that as well but with the 3D glasses making everything so dark I couldnt make out a lot of background stuff Id like to have seen better. I expect screenshots will be leaked onto the net soon and if not I'll be freeze framing on blu ray!

[Jon]

For those days when things aren't happening, I look up at my wall for inspiration.

 

 

[Cube]

Personally, I like having X-Men as a separate thing. There are more than enough characters as it is. Unless there's a very good reason for them to only select a couple of the X-Men.

[McPhee]

Yeah, I can definitely accept X-Men as a separate universe for films. In a lot of ways it works better, imagine working the 5 X-Men films in to the Marvel movieverse. Too many characters there for anyone not familiar with comics. Having Wolverine appear in a film or two would have been cool though.

 

Spidey is the tragedy tbh. It would be ace to see him fighting with The Avengers, or Iron Man saving his arse in his own film. It's a shame it's unlikely to ever happen.

 

Fantastic Four can die in a hole though. Dire films, and I don't find much to like in the comics either. I'd rather they kept them out!

 

I think Antman is defo the right way to go for the next Avengers film. An extra character or two is plenty. Actually, 8 might be too many at once. Wouldn't bother me too much if Hawkeye got axed, didn't care much for him in this film (I thought he kinda sucked actually). Making Black Widow less important wouldn't bother me either, I really liked the character and the hand-to-hand combat scenes, but the bit with her and Hawkeye fighting on the streets of Manhattan was pretty dire (standing behind a car doing that awkward stabbing motion with a couple of pistols while all of the enemy fire conveniently misses your stationary, not very well covered meatslab? Urgh). She felt a bit useless in the big battle, it would be better to focus in on her strengths and leave her out of scenes like that. Having her as a S.H.I.E.L.D employee rather than an Avenger might be the answer?

 

[Murr]

A few bits and bobs from Kevin Feige -

 

How far along are we from seeing Black Widow in her own story?

 

Well, I think you saw it in Avengers. I think that’s one of the many amazing things Joss Whedon can do. I think people are going to be surprised by how powerful Scarlett is in this movie, and how evolved her role is. We have already planned her next appearances and where to take that character because we believe in it and we believe in her in a big, big way. When will there be a standalone? Both is what we’re heading toward. A lot of it is that we’re only going to make two movies a year, maybe sometimes it’ll be one movie a year like this year, maybe someday it’ll be three movies a year just depending on what comes together. But really, it’s two movies. So there’s kind of a backup on the runway right now in terms of when can something go. We do like when some of the characters appear in other people’s movies.

 

What can you say in the way of an Ant-Man update?

 

Well, we’ve been working on that movie for forever, it seems. I saw Edgar [Wright] again last night and what I’ve been saying because I believe it to be true is that it’s closer than it’s ever been before.

 

How does that play out in Iron Man 3?

 

Tony very much goes back to his world and his life in California and quickly finds himself in a situation that removes him from any of the access to any of the characters and people he met in Avengers. He has to do it all on his own.

 

On keeping up with the Marvel library and potential stories as more films are developed:

As we were working on [the solo movies] we started to keep track of some things that the writers and filmmakers of one movie were doing anyway and we started to track them and realized that we could utilize those later down the line.That’s how the Cosmic Cube came about; what started as a little seed would grow and grow and grow to The Avengers. So there were always things that we’d keep track of and now we have enough people that there are a few people on staff who just do that, when potential ideas come up I go, “Keep a record of this — we might be able to connect this to something.” Or, more likely, it’s just potential ideas for full movies — who can the bad guy be in Iron Man 3, what should we put Thor through in his next movie, where’s Cap going now that he’s here in the modern day… all of those things. And we have lots of great comic books to actually give the true information to it.

 

Full interview over here - http://movieline.com/2012/04/30/kevin-feige-on-avengers-marvel-universe-building-and-the-legacy-of-elektra/

[Shorty]

Spidey is the tragedy tbh. It would be ace to see him fighting with The Avengers, or Iron Man saving his arse in his own film. It's a shame it's unlikely to ever happen.

 

I wouldn't say never. It might be a year, 5 years or 30 years down the line but it's still possible.

[Happenstance]

I dont need Spider-Man in an Avengers movie anyway, I would rather just stick with the main Avengers and introduce some extra ones every now and again. In the Avengers comics Spider-Man is pointless on the team and Bendis still hasnt done anything worthwhile with him (and as he's leaving Avengers, I guess he never will).

 

I guess I wouldnt mind him appearing in a cameo or even fighting alongside them if the problem was big enough but thats it.

[Dan_Dare]

So great.

 

I never expected it to be that successul a film. Unf. My friend and I were lying on the floor after the mid-credits scene. Dying.

 

Fuck what you think all h8rs of this film, it was excellent conceived, the perfect result of all the build-up. The Thor film feels so "..." in comparison, like it's now so obvious how they struggled to make an interesting film out of his story (which they did, but not overly), and Natalie Portman's prescence in anything now just annoys me. (Except Garden State)

 

Thor was too silly/random/hodge-podge/obviously made so they didn't have to explain him in Avengers. Or it feels that way now. It's fine and enjoyable but nothing on this.

 

MMmmm.

 

MAJOR SPOILERS:

HOW WILL THANOS FACTOR IN>>>!

 

I need a cosmic hero introduced. But someone relevant. I need Ms. Marvel. Maybe too awkward to introduce...they could just have a few joke new members in Avengers 2, and you are forced to assume they were found and assimilated.

 

I'd love Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch (heavily based on their Ultimate universe versions). Adds more superpower to the team/could have hints of mutant persecution. Are these films allowed to even mention mutants though? Does Fox have the rights to that end of things entirely?

 

 

 

Captain Marvel would be hyper-stun. He'd be an excellent character to have come and warn The Avengers that Thanos is coming to absolutely ruin their shit. Which he should do, obviously, until Hank Pym builds Ultron to stop him....

 

 

[Jon]

It's a dangerous game to start mixing all the comics. In theory it sounds great but it would be well beyond saturation point and there can be too much of a good thing.

[Daft]

I think it'd be fine as long as you keep the core character recognisable.

 

X-men handled it pretty well.

[Jon]

I don't think the studios would go for a 7 hour running time though.

[heroicjanitor]

The real question is where was Spiderman during all of this.