Fierce_LiNk Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 I can't name a Nintendo game that I didn't enjoy (off the top of my head - although there are a load of games that I did not play last generation, including Tales of Symphonia, which...I know will get me killed at some point), but the game on a Nintendo console that I didn't like was/is Timesplitters 2. On paper, it looks like the perfect game. But, in reality, it just didn't work for me. It had all the options, all the right ideas, all the right elements, but it just didn't have that soul which grabs you. Definitely my biggest disappointment of last generation, by quite some margin I think. I know some loved it, but for me I just remember feeling...wrong somewhat for not falling in love with it. I'm seeing some shocking mentions in here. Metroid Prime, Sim City, and worst of all...Pikmin?! Guys, you're breaking my balls here. When I think of Pikmin, I think of one of my fondest gaming memories of last generation. That game seemed to breathe charm and character, and I think the "time-limit" gave it a great sense of urgency.
Nolan Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 The thing about TS, is it's a multiplayer affair. It's like UT but wackier, nothing like having a deathmatch against a monkey armed to the teeth. Those damn monkeys, they're so short that they give an advantage of being hard to aim at. But as I was saying, I can understand not loving it.
dwarf Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 Personally I loved Timesplitters, was a great crack in co-op and multiplayer, plus I really enjoyed the campaign. Challenges were fun and overall it was pure fun. Thing is I can understand why anyone could love/hate almost any game (exceptions like Hail to the Chimp are obvious rule-breakers here) so I will no longer allow myself to be riled up when someone says that they don't like Metroid Prime.
Fierce_LiNk Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 The thing about TS, is it's a multiplayer affair. It's like UT but wackier, nothing like having a deathmatch against a monkey armed to the teeth. Those damn monkeys, they're so short that they give an advantage of being hard to aim at. But as I was saying, I can understand not loving it. I've played it in multiplayer a fair bit, and the pace of it is just wrong in my eyes. It seems like it was trying too hard to be frantic, and a bit too wacky that it had the opposite effect. The weapons were ok, but honestly, whether or not I killed someone or got killed myself, I can't say I cared either way. In other games, notably Goldeneye (it was always going to be compared to this somewhere along the way), I care about every death, every kill, everything. I just didn't feel the same in TS2.
dwarf Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 I think you just don't like arcade shooters. Although I guess Goldeneye was sort of Arcade... Hmmmm. I don't really ever care whether I get killed in any game - apart from Socom because you know you have to wait for 2 hours before you get to play again.
spirited away Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 Metroid Prime for me as well. Honestly can't get to grips with the hype over it.
mcj metroid Posted June 27, 2009 Author Posted June 27, 2009 Metroid Prime for me as well. Honestly can't get to grips with the hype over it. ok here I will finally do why I like metroid prime so much rant... great music,great graphics.. very faithful to previous metroid games.. Plenty of variety in level design.. Some of the best level design ever at that. the controls are fine;and just because they've been improved with wii doesn't mean there was anything wrong with them in the first place.. Think of it like resident evil 4 on wii. quite lengthy gameplay.. pretty cool boss battles.. BUt it's slow paced! you HAVE to give it time.. I love games like metroid, another code,hotel dusk,resident evil especially for the SENSE of satisfaction you get when you solve a new puzzle and unlock a new area.. the sense of excitement rushes to me to find out what's in there.. For me, there is a little frustration when i cant solve a puzzle for a while but it's difficult in a retro sort of way.. the same reason people play games like mega man 9 for the physical challenge i love the mental challenge of games... Chances are you are one of those people that get frustrated and upon completing a puzzle think meh when completing it like most people... in this case.. stay away from zack and wiki and most of the games mentioned above.. this brings me to another little niggle I have with nintendo fans.. Metroid is the closest series nintendo has to zelda.. similiarity: metroid is like a constant zelda dungeon is you think about it. both have upgradable weapons needed to get to new areas. instead of tunics samus has upgradable suits. it goes on really ... but you wanna know why everyone likes zelda and only a select few like metroid prime?.. zelda is EASIER! far far easier! I think the "time-limit" gave it a great sense of urgency. ha that;s what everyone says.. look the time limit in majora's mask was fantastic for urgency... mainly because it was an actual time limit really.. pikmin had the obvious in game time limit which was fine but that 30 day bullshit made it feel like a demo to me..
darksnowman Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 ok here I will finally do why I like metroid prime so much rant... And for the first time ever your rant isn't aimed at me!
Pete Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) Metroid Prime - Far to easy to become completely lost - I have a head for big games but I just gave up on that one - ridiculous. SSB Melee and MK Double Dash - the worst in theres respective series by miles imo. Oh n I love Sim City and Super Monkey ball (both single and multi player)-fantasic games! (also loved Time Splitters). Edited June 27, 2009 by Pete
Sheikah Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 but you wanna know why everyone likes zelda and only a select few like metroid prime?.. zelda is EASIER! far far easier! Nah, it's because the Metroid series has no way near the level of charm as Zelda games. With Zelda games you have some of the best gameplay ever, as well as not continuously having to go around killing random monsters to get to the next room. If Zelda was just all dungeons it'd be pretty dire, tbh. Plus, let's not forget, there's a great deal of platforming in MP, which is silly since it's a FPS! You can't even see your own feet. Samus is a bit of a weak character, too. Link can have his moments, while Samus is usually always hidden away in her suit.
Emasher Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 I've always thought the reason more people like Zelda than Metroid (specifically the prime games), was because they go into metroid uninformed, they think before they play it that its like Halo. They don't understand that its about looking for things rather than shooting things, they don't like the slow gameplay. With metroid, the prime games really can't be your first experience with them. It has to be something like Super Metroid or Zero Mission or you're not going to understand the gameplay. I also agree about Zelda having more charm, but for those people who only buy Nintendo consoles for Zelda games, and constantly want more Zelda games, Metroid is probably an experience they would enjoy, they're just to ignorant towards it.
mcj metroid Posted June 28, 2009 Author Posted June 28, 2009 Nah, it's because the Metroid series has no way near the level of charm as Zelda games. With Zelda games you have some of the best gameplay ever, as well as not continuously having to go around killing random monsters to get to the next room. If Zelda was just all dungeons it'd be pretty dire, tbh. Plus, let's not forget, there's a great deal of platforming in MP, which is silly since it's a FPS! You can't even see your own feet. Samus is a bit of a weak character, too. Link can have his moments, while Samus is usually always hidden away in her suit. samus has a way better backstory than link though.. as shown by the fact that there is a manga and a new game focusing on that... link is completely and utterly charcterless.. no character at all besides a few reaction shots which only really started in wind waker.. No i really think difficulty plays a massive part.. I think... It's also the reason some people hated metroid prime 2:echoes.. there were other reasons but that would be a biggy.. I really don't get that platforming argument.. the" you cant see your feet thing" is silly Has anyone ever died as a result of this? Besides you can see your feet if you could control the game probably but nobody could.. No i found the platforming to be completely satisfying a smooth.. The feet problem should be solved in the remakes anyway where you can tilt down a bit to er see your feet.. metroid doesn't have charm?... well.. it's not that childish if that's what you mean... Not saying zelda is childish but zelda games are definetly more kid friendly and colourful.... Zelda is focused on having a big world with many people to interact with.. metroid is all about being alone in a desperate struggle.. i wouln't call metroid charming I guess but for the type of game it is.. it's not supposed to be.. And you rarely have to kill every bad guy to get into the next room in at least prime 1 anyway. I've always thought the reason more people like Zelda than Metroid (specifically the prime games), was because they go into metroid uninformed, they think before they play it that its like Halo. They don't understand that its about looking for things rather than shooting things, they don't like the slow gameplay. With metroid, the prime games really can't be your first experience with them. It has to be something like Super Metroid or Zero Mission or you're not going to understand the gameplay. I also agree about Zelda having more charm, but for those people who only buy Nintendo consoles for Zelda games, and constantly want more Zelda games, Metroid is probably an experience they would enjoy, they're just to ignorant towards it. This is very true.. I thought metroid prime 1 was a far far better game than halo 1 anyway.. hell I couln't understand how the extremely short,sailing ridden wind waker could even come close to metroid prime 1.. but they're rated equally and here we are
nekunando Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 Today, I have to vote for Super Metroid.. but that isn't due to the actual game I have been playing it all week and was about 9 or 10 hours in and on my way to Ridley.. so I turn it on again this afternoon after playing it this morning and the data has disappeared I've never played the game before so this has been my first experience of it and I'm furious that everything is gone and I don't feel like I have the desire to go through it all again after this has just happened.. I'm so angry
mcj metroid Posted June 28, 2009 Author Posted June 28, 2009 Metroid Prime - Far to easy to become completely lost - I have a head for big games but I just gave up on that one - ridiculous. far too easy to get lost so you gave up? what ha
Grazza Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 but you wanna know why everyone likes zelda and only a select few like metroid prime?.. zelda is EASIER! far far easier! OK, fair point indeed, but the difficulty is a legitimate complaint. There's such a thing as the right balance. I honestly don't think Retro Studios realise how hard Metroid Prime is. I read an interview in either Edge or Games TM and one of the leading programmers said something like "even a casual gamer could complete it". Now, in my opinion, that's not an accurate assessment of the difficulty. There are extreme difficulty spikes. The final boss, for instance, is ridiculously more difficult than Meta Ridley. Of course, a game's final boss is always going to be harder than the penultimate one, but it was at least double the difficulty, perhaps triple or even more. This meant a lot of people would get to the very end but not be able to defeat the final boss. Secondly, a lot of the problem is with the way the difficulty is structured. The GBA Metroids are very hard, far more difficult than the Zelda games (apart from the NES ones) and yet it's enjoyable to meet their challenge. I've completed Zero Mission on "Hard" and also completed Fusion. They're both very intense and you need good reactions. However, if you fail at a boss, it's quite easy to get back to it with max health and missiles. In Metroid Prime, the Save Points are so badly placed, it's an ordeal to get back to a boss. Also, if you decide you need more health and missile packs, it's enjoyable in the GBA games to run through the game world, blasting the ceilings and trying to find them. In Metroid Prime, the thought of going back through the game world is too much, and I wouldn't have a clue where to find them anyway. This goes back to what I say about the fine tuning. In theory, the game world is set up the same way as in the 2D games. In practice, it doesn't have the nuance. If Zelda was just all dungeons it'd be pretty dire, tbh. Absolutely. For some reason, Metroid Prime does feel like one big Zelda dungeon (which is a bad thing), whereas the 2D Metroids do feel like one big game world, but not a dungeon (and it works). I've always thought the reason more people like Zelda than Metroid (specifically the prime games), was because they go into metroid uninformed, they think before they play it that its like Halo. They don't understand that its about looking for things rather than shooting things, they don't like the slow gameplay. With metroid, the prime games really can't be your first experience with them. It has to be something like Super Metroid or Zero Mission or you're not going to understand the gameplay. Good point, I agree with most of that. Metroid Prime was my first Metroid and I admit I didn't understand it. I didn't expect it to be an FPS, although I did find it had a lot in common with Turok 2 (which is about the only FPS I'd played) in terms of level structure and save points. Also, isn't it a flaw of Metroid Prime if it doesn't introduce the Metroid gameplay well enough? I really don't get that platforming argument.. the" you cant see your feet thing" is silly Has anyone ever died as a result of this? No, but it was still annoying falling down all the time. My final point is that as well as badly-judged difficulty and fine tuning, incorrect expectations (as Emasher says), there were also just some inherent problems with the game. I didn't like the lack of peripheral vision, not being able to see Samus or switching visors or beams. I can understand why Retro included this (for realism, presumably), but it was one gameplay tweak in the wrong direction. At the end of the day, Metroid Prime is an extremely impressive game. I think both its critics and its fans are correct, it's just a matter of opinion.
Pete Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) far too easy to get lost so you gave up? what ha Ha your self Yes as I said I have a head for big games but what you find good I find boing in this case. Edited June 28, 2009 by Pete
mcj metroid Posted June 28, 2009 Author Posted June 28, 2009 OK, fair point indeed, but the difficulty is a legitimate complaint. There's such a thing as the right balance. I honestly don't think Retro Studios realise how hard Metroid Prime is. I read an interview in either Edge or Games TM and one of the leading programmers said something like "even a casual gamer could complete it". Now, in my opinion, that's not an accurate assessment of the difficulty. There are extreme difficulty spikes. The final boss, for instance, is ridiculously more difficult than Meta Ridley. Of course, a game's final boss is always going to be harder than the penultimate one, but it was at least double the difficulty, perhaps triple or even more. This meant a lot of people would get to the very end but not be able to defeat the final boss. Secondly, a lot of the problem is with the way the difficulty is structured. The GBA Metroids are very hard, far more difficult than the Zelda games (apart from the NES ones) and yet it's enjoyable to meet their challenge. I've completed Zero Mission on "Hard" and also completed Fusion. They're both very intense and you need good reactions. However, if you fail at a boss, it's quite easy to get back to it with max health and missiles. In Metroid Prime, the Save Points are so badly placed, it's an ordeal to get back to a boss. Also, if you decide you need more health and missile packs, it's enjoyable in the GBA games to run through the game world, blasting the ceilings and trying to find them. In Metroid Prime, the thought of going back through the game world is too much, and I wouldn't have a clue where to find them anyway. This goes back to what I say about the fine tuning. In theory, the game world is set up the same way as in the 2D games. In practice, it doesn't have the nuance. Ok point 1. Yes it's true the balance is messed up and seems it's retros downfall.. PLus you get the feeling in certain parts they just got bored.. This happens especially in echoes.. searching for the keys is NOT fun..but then again the shards wern't in wind waker either.. 2: yes especially with zero mission the handheld games are a faster pace.. Zero mission she runs so fast and it's very satisfying to play.. unfortunetly it slows down in parts(worse in fusion mind you).. I have heard a lot of people saying metroid fusion was the only good metroid(and hey darksnowman TAKE a bow i mentioned you THIS time )... Now this is because in fusion... you are very much basicially told where to go and what to do and with very little backtracking... Not saying the game is easy.. Some of the gameplay elements are very challenging, some boss fights for instance but in terms of backtracking it's probably the least challenging. fine tuning is very important in a metroid game... but I really don't think 3 was the way to go either... 3 just made it look more like halo... retro lost me with that one .... So I think main reasons with metroid prime: 1:there is backtracking puzzles.... not a major problem BUT the gameplay is slow paced.. if samus ran faster or everything was close together then not a major hassle.. 2: controls alienate players.... they're not bad , just different.. But as I said the wii solves that issue. 3:locations need to be different looking... This is a problem not only metroid suffered from.. but super mario sunshine... i mean don't you just hate when areas look the same and you don't tell which from which... this was not a metroid prime 1 problem but 2 fucked this right up 4: it's very difficult, probably nintendos hardest series of all time.. Metroid nes was probably one of the hardest nes games, super metroid very tricky it kept going... oh and metroid prime hunters sucks... so if you just played that metroid game I don't blame you.
Emasher Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 One thing that would fix the backtracking issue is if you had teleport points around everywhere like in Zelda. And make the world easier to navigate. Prime 1 was especially bad for having too many tight corridors and paths that were hard to distinguish from each other. The ship was good enough in prime 3, but a more Zelda like teleport system could work well in metroid.
mcj metroid Posted June 28, 2009 Author Posted June 28, 2009 One thing that would fix the backtracking issue is if you had teleport points around everywhere like in Zelda. And make the world easier to navigate. Prime 1 was especially bad for having too many tight corridors and paths that were hard to distinguish from each other. The ship was good enough in prime 3, but a more Zelda like teleport system could work well in metroid. this is true... Good point actually didn't think of it.. Metroid prime 2 attempted this but Right at the end of the game and You still had to walk to them.. But metroid had a form of instant teleport it might work... but it might ruin the exploration also... I think a form of it might work though..maybe if you were to se the save points as a sort of teleport point..
Guest Captain Falcon Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 (edited) Just a thought, but for those people who easily get lost in games, I don't see how teleport systems really help. All they do is warp you from one area to another and as such you don't get to figure out how the world is plotted because you keep skipping it. It would kill the immersion of a Metroid game pretty easily. It works in Zelda because the overworld is just that simple - heck you can often see one warp point from another because nothing is in the way. If they have warping be a key dynamic to a dungeon, it could so easily become confusing or just annoying (there's a dungeon in ToS (a game renowned for it's simple dungeons) that springs to mind which was needlessly drawout and convoluted). Edited June 29, 2009 by Captain Falcon
Emasher Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Which dungeon in ToS are you talking about? I was more talking about just having a few warp points that you get latter in the game that let you skip bits of the world that you've already gone through multiple times. Just have one in every area that you actually need to explore to find. It wouldn't really help with people getting lost, more people complaining about back tracking.
Guest Captain Falcon Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Which dungeon in ToS are you talking about? I was more talking about just having a few warp points that you get latter in the game that let you skip bits of the world that you've already gone through multiple times. Just have one in every area that you actually need to explore to find. It wouldn't really help with people getting lost, more people complaining about back tracking. It's the Mana cannon one where you get the sound resonating power for the sorcerer's ring and it changes the warp pads colour that determines where you go to... I can't quite think of the dungeon name right now.
Emasher Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 Lone Island Human Ranch? Its either than or Iselia Human Ranch. I'm pretty sure you never go to the Mana canon itself though, only Sheena does.
mcj metroid Posted June 30, 2009 Author Posted June 30, 2009 Just a thought, but for those people who easily get lost in games, I don't see how teleport systems really help. All they do is warp you from one area to another and as such you don't get to figure out how the world is plotted because you keep skipping it. It would kill the immersion of a Metroid game pretty easily. . This is also through although.. One of the major complaints of metroid games is that they are very slow paced... Surely a telelport system would help speed the game up... This is usually why sometimes the 2d metroids are prefrerred to the 3d ones... otherwise All i can think of is make samus run faster... Anyway there is little point talking about it anyway.. It's very likely that the next metroid game will be nothing like prime.. and Im sure It will be more user friendly I have a lot of faith in it and am very interested to see If it has the power to compete with zelda as nintendos greatest...
nekunando Posted June 30, 2009 Posted June 30, 2009 I surprised myself on sunday morning a couple of hours after I lost my Super Metroid data.. I dived straight back in from the start, knowing that the save could disappear on me again Thankfully, I made it through to the end (in about half the time the first effort was going to be..) and it turns out I was only about 20 minutes from the end before I lost my data the first time Anyway, it is over now and I can take it off the 'Game you just didn't like' list as I actually enjoyed it quite a lot
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