Goafer Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Whoa Nelly! So you wouldn't have learned good morals if you weren't raised a christian? Well no, I just think it's a good way to learn morals. I think any religion (within reason), practiced correctly, can be one of the best ways to learn morals. Just my oppinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Well no, I just think it's a good way to learn morals. I think any religion (within reason), practiced correctly, can be one of the best ways to learn morals. Just my oppinion of course. Why? It's the same, only with the threat of DAMNATION!!!!!!!! *lightning* as opposed to your parents. So it's teaching with fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Although I'm glad I was raised Christian. It taught me some gosh darn morals. Ever heard of humanism? The good bits of Christianity are pinched from humanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Whoa Nelly! So you wouldn't have learned good morals if you weren't raised a christian? Ever heard of humanism? The good bits of Christianity are pinched from humanism. He didn't say that's the only way anyone can ever learn morals, he said that's how he learned them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
or else you will DIE Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 i love god Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeyellowbloke Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 (edited) I agree that bible stories are a good way of teaching morals (well mostly, lets just ignore some of the old testament stuff) and I think this was probably the primary reason for their existence in society. I mean every society no matter how remote seems to have their own proverbs, fables and allegorical myths teaching pretty much the same lessons. However, nowadays kids can just as easily learn such morals from TV shows like Arthur with out need of a mind-bending reference point of an all powerful supernatural deity which is always watching and must be worshiped. Edit: Not that a talking mutant human-aardvark who is friends with a mutant human rabbit is any less mind-bending, but at least it's portrayed as fictional. Edited April 23, 2009 by weeyellowbloke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arab_freak Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 (edited) I don't really want to be attacked as being one of the few people on this forum who believe in God but I'll give my two cents anyway. I don't understand why god wants to be worshipped either. I'd get so bored of being worshipped after a while. But then again we're considered mortals, so you could really never know why. Why does everybody personify God? Everyone seems to imagine him as some sort of jacked up humanoid. I prefer to imagine him (not that I believe in him) as a sort of force, like karma, mother nature, mana etc. I think it's because there's a lot of ways to grasp the concept of a "higher being", the most basic (and popular) being trying to attribute human characteristics to understand His behavior. It's like you can only study God by "bringing him down to your own level". In all fairness, God created man in his image so it's safe to assume God's a person type thing. Depends how literally you take the Bible I guess. As a Muslim I like to believe that God is a formless entity, one that you will never be able to "see". I don't believe God created man in His image because that would be somewhat desecrate. If God is the perfect "being", shouldn't his creation (man) be perfect as well? Humans sin and live voluptuously, and God isn't like that. Why? It's the same, only with the threat of DAMNATION!!!!!!!! *lightning* as opposed to your parents. So it's teaching with fear. Personally I think it's very effective. Nothing like a good threat to keep you in line. There's still some non-threatening stuff, however. Like this quote from the Qur'an: [18:103] Say, "Shall I tell you who the worst losers are? [18:104] "They are the ones whose works in this life are totally astray, but they think that they are doing good." [18:105] Such are the ones who disbelieved in the revelations of their Lord and in meeting Him. Therefore, their works are in vain; on the Day of Resurrection, they have no weight. Links I feel relevant: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/468127 http://www.quranmiracles.com/ Edited April 24, 2009 by arab_freak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haden Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Ever heard of humanism? The good bits of Christianity are pinched from humanism. Good Samaritan story broke down racial and tribal barriers that were a common part of life. Humanism would of course counter this by saying "we treat all humans the same" but when was this tested historically. Enlightenment? 19th century? 20th? I realise Humanism in a form was around during the Ancient Greek era but I find it extremely hard to believe Ancient Greeks would have been racially insensitive compared to todays Humanist Standards. Secondly even if you could somehow prove Humanism had thought of this principle first. Loving your enemy is a christian principle that I defiantly feel has not been pinched from Humanism. Humanism like Liberalism has gone through a hell of a lot of changes and I wouldn't bet it was some nice historical narrative that supersedes all religions by any stretch of the imagination. The conflict is slightly absurd anyway Petrach a classic Humanist one of the first of the Renaissance period said "He believed in the immense moral and practical value of the study of ancient history and literature - that is, the study of human thought and action. Petrarch was a devout Catholic and did not see a conflict between realizing humanity's potential and having religious faith. " Same for Michael Psellus I recommend you read his diaries of his time in the 11th century Byzantine Court which was uber religious yet he was a very logical cause and effect thinker as well as being a Christian. Ah man gone off onto theology now sorry the point to the post is way above this end bit. Off Topic Here is link to Psellus book if anyone is interested its great fun battle wise to has histories of Byzantine kings who died and had their skulls turned into drinking cups as well as amazing plots and intrigue. And the best bit is its all history not fiction. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fourteen-Byzantine-Rulers-Chronographia-Classics/dp/0140441697/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240513763&sr=8-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pestneb Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I wasn't raised anthing, and I'm one of the most thoughtful, conscientious people I know. You forgot to mention how humble you are too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaggis Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 (edited) I just feel as though God was created (and in doing so an afterlife and such) because as humans we have an inherent fear of nothingness. People didn't want to live with the idea of there simply being death and nothing else and so thought up all this nonsense. Yes, it can teach some form of morals (but so can a number of things, the whole "without religion we would have no morals" is bullshit), but other than that, it's just a bunch of stories with a moral backbone to them. Nothing more. (At least, imo. I have no trouble at all with people that have religious views, unless of course they impede on such things as the whole gay marriage issue this thread started from). Edited April 23, 2009 by Slaggis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 The concept of God is degrading to man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyxis Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I'm a strong supporter of good morals, but religion is pure evil if you have any respect for the human mind. Our minds are very fragile and fickle things. Religion is all about controlling people and brainwashing them to believe what you want them to believe. The victims dont understand how wrong they are to take the words of other people with so much faith.... When we are talking about religion, we don't even need to talk about whether there is a god or not because that's not what religion is really about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris the great Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 religion and faith are two different things. religion is like, follow the church, faith is belife. i have no love for religion, i feel it is missused and scares morals into people. that said, ive met some very nice, very relgious people. its just not for me. i have faith, but not in some supreme being. i have faith in humans. i dont belive in a soul but an evolved brain with collective traits that make us human. one of these traits is survival. i belive that as an intelegent race, humans are able to adapt to, and ultimatly survie any situation. i also belive that the majority of people try to be good, not because of some cosmi force but because of the nature of social evolution. i had a friend who was heavily into buddism, he tried to convert me, i was tempted till he started talking about people survivng on cosmic energy. thats when my implasability alarm sounded. have faith in your self and your own ability. what you achive is down to you and the people around you. if you belive in god, then thats ine, just make sure you do good because you want to, not due to fear of punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The fish Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Off Topic Here is link to Psellus book if anyone is interested its great fun battle wise to has histories of Byzantine kings who died and had their skulls turned into drinking cups as well as amazing plots and intrigue. And the best bit is its all history not fiction. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fourteen-Byzantine-Rulers-Chronographia-Classics/dp/0140441697/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240513763&sr=8-1 Byzantine history is indeed very interesting, and gory, with a rather appropriate crazy last stand at Byzantium/Constantinople itself. Ok, now I just wanna play Medieval Total War... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haden Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Byzantine history is indeed very interesting, and gory, with a rather appropriate crazy last stand at Byzantium/Constantinople itself. Ok, now I just wanna play Medieval Total War... Putting aside our small differences of opinion about the big ideas! I absolutely recommend this as perhaps one of the best primary sources I have ever read on that period. The best part is Psellus was part of all of this King Maker etc. It also adds to the drama Psellus describes at one point how he wept as a angry mob drew to deal justice on an overthrown emperor as he hid in a church its incredible stuff! His description of personality precedes psychology by 900 years yet is similar to it (imo better). He was an utter trailblazer believing in god but not assigning every action to him rather studying history as cause and effect. Revolutionary in terms of historiography. Basically get it its awesome I will re-read it soon. Sadly end of the book suffers as he was reigned in by censors but its still all awesome. Anyway sorry for derailing back to religion bash... fair discussion of god! (Just kidding!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 (edited) You forgot to mention how humble you are too. I'm a pretty humble guy, but I'm not a liar. All I ever wanted, all I ever needed Is here in my arms Words are very Unnecessary They can only do harm Listening to that atm, felt appropriate to my view on things. Edited April 23, 2009 by Paj! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyxis Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 (edited) "i had a friend who was heavily into buddism, he tried to convert me, i was tempted till he started talking about people survivng on cosmic energy. thats when my implasability alarm sounded." Buddhism and Taoism have no place outside of Chinese fairy tales. I was reading about Chinese history today and how dynasties stayed in power by making the people believe that they had a mandate from heaven to rule over them. Edited April 23, 2009 by Pyxis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 At least Buddhism is fucking peaceful! That's why I personally respect it. And it's slightly more my kinda scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Discussing God is pointless because the people who believe in him, well, to put it simply, they believe in supernatural entities. So it's completely pointless/useless to discuss God unless both involved parties agree or enjoy talking to brick walls (which works both ways). Now, one could insist upon discussing religions... in which case, there's only one which I respect and would even consider (I'm atheist), which is Buddhism (the Zen variant). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Now, one could insist upon discussing religions... in which case, there's only one which I respect and would even consider (I'm atheist), which is Buddhism (the Zen variant). You're stunning with your love glue-gunnin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyxis Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 At least Buddhism is fucking peaceful! Buddhists are like babies with candy. Their philosophy is as feasible as Marxism and both would only work in a world occupied by perfectly programmed robots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxigen_Waste Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Buddhists are like babies with candy. Their philosophy is as feasible as Marxism and both would only work in a world occupied by perfectly programmed robots. Depends on which type of Buddhism, really. Plain old orthodox Buddhism? Yep, that's about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mundi Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Yeah buddishm seems very peaceful until you read about their concept of hell. It makes Christian hell sound like kindergarten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkatronics Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Yeah buddishm seems very peaceful until you read about their concept of hell.It makes Christian hell sound like kindergarten What is their hell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mundi Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 What is their hell? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Buddhism) Some of them mentioned here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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