Sheikah Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 That is why you are the inferior gender. You have sex chromosomes X and Y, making you male. Your argument for being female is as valid as saying a landmine victim is no longer human. If bits come off, does that change the subject's gender or species? I think not. There has to be a universal, unarguable method for determining gender, and DNA is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokhed00 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Its natural curiosity. I know plenty of women who'd say the same. And ultimately they may not have the best of intentions but they're weren't writing off a whole gender. In fact it was kind of the opposite, as if they had such strongly sexist views as you are expressing they wouldn't wish to be female. So yes, right intention with the wrong reasons. It may be curiosity, but there are so many more important things you could learn from living as the opposite gender, no matter who you are, You have sex chromosomes X and Y, making you male. Your argument for being female is as valid as saying a landmine victim is no longer human. If bits come off, does that change the subject's gender or species? I think not. There has to be a universal, unarguable method for determining gender, and DNA is that. Good job medical science disagrees with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Good job medical science disagrees with you. I posted scientific fact; how can science disagree with science? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokhed00 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I posted scientific fact; how can science disagree with science? No, you didn't, you tried to use science to justify your opinion, it didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamba Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 But I like the way Nintendo has that androgynous thing going on, I think it's healthy...I mean obviously not in mario, which is very stereotyped on a basic level, but Link being a lithe elfin boy, rather than a Captain Falcon figure, and Zelda turning into the androgynous Sheik, Samus androgyny etc.. I think what you're talking about there is the Japanese tendancy for gender disassociation which comes from a long history of sexual repression. And Nintendo are the last people to really be doing this kind of thing... Square Enix hello? Anime in general hello? Good thing imo. Not so sure about this. I'm all up for diversity. And to me, smooshing both sexes into 1 box rather than 2 doesn't seem to be much of a decent solution. It suggests that if you have someone who is a real sterotypical manly man or a womenly woman that somehow they are worse off than someone who's a bit of a grey area person. Like convergence is somehow the way forward. It's not, all you get is homogeny. Personally, I'm kind of tired of seeing people that you can't tell whether they are a boy or a girl. It's like the photographer / director / whatever is trying to be clever and somehow say something about sexes by saying nothing at all. As I said, diversity is key. Having a good spectrum of personalities and people types makes the world a better place, creates more interesting fashion (could someone pls do something about men's fashion pls?), culture, media, conversation and so on... Sure if there is genuine discrimination then that should be quelled but I really don't see much of that in the UK particularly. To me gender representation is another issue all together. If people want to use characters or celebrities as role models then they can. But few people use them in very bad ways. Again, it's all about having a diversity from which people can chose. Most people actually base their mental image of archetypes for others and themselves on actual real people. That's because that's the medium in which you meet other people... you know... in real life. So really this is only going to be a problem for the chumps that just sit at home and stay inside. They blatantly have worse problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaggis Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 That is why you are the inferior gender. If you're moaning as Sheikah for "attempting (he did) justify his point, then justify this one. Oh wait, you can't because it's bullshit. Stop trying to flame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 why does Rokhed always ruin topics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamba Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 No, you didn't, you tried to use science to justify your opinion, it didn't work. Have to agree with Rok there.... scientific definitions of sex are just that. Scientific. They aren't personal, spiritual or anything that actual deals with what makes us human. They are simply physical (EDIT: Only genetic in some cases - Look up Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome). It has no way of encompassing how a person perceives or feels about themselves. Inelegant, draconian and not really applicable to a connversation with Rok. But yeah he is just baiting you... seriously, you don't know this by now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Have to agree with Rok there.... scientific definitions of sex are just that. Scientific. And also correct. I just think that society is a bit of a soft touch with minority groups these days. Gender is as static as age, and both can be visually modified with surgery (gender ops and facelifts). People can feel like a young buck but that doesn't affect their age - in fact it would be illegal to attempt to officially reduce your age. It's a case of double standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokhed00 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Have to agree with Rok there.... scientific definitions of sex are just that. Scientific. They aren't personal, spiritual or anything that actual deals with what makes us human. They are simply physical (EDIT: Only genetic in some cases - Look up Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome). It has no way of encompassing how a person perceives or feels about themselves. Inelegant, draconian and not really applicable to a connversation with Rok. But yeah he is just baiting you... seriously, you don't know this by now? Course I do, he's a typical transphobe, much easier to deal with in person. And also correct. Like gender dysphoria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluey Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Course I do, he's a typical transphobe, much easier to deal with in person. aww rok ~ you'll always scare me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 much easier to deal with in person. Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you a psychopath! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokhed00 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 aww rok ~ you'll always scare me!! It's not intentional. I just like pulling kissy faces at arseholes who take the piss, they tend to run a mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navarre Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Sexism disgusts me. Then again, I hardly think feminism is the perfect remedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 It may be curiosity, but there are so many more important things you could learn from living as the opposite gender, no matter who you are, That's completely contradicting what you said earlier. Living as the opposite gender may be a great learning tool, but according to you earlier the only gender worth being is female. I don't mind you saying you prefer being female personally but to negate the whole other gender is retrogressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokhed00 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 That's completely contradicting what you said earlier. Living as the opposite gender may be a great learning tool, but according to you earlier the only gender worth being is female. That's not what I said, being inferior can still be worthwhile, and teach you something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 That's not what I said, being inferior can still be worthwhile, and teach you something. Well fine. You can believe males are inferior (given the sitch in your case its understandable to a degree) but find a less absolute way of saying it. Because what you originally said (and im not the only one who felt this) was basically "men are worthless and unecessary". Miscommunication strikes again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 It's not intentional.I just like pulling kissy faces at arseholes who take the piss, they tend to run a mile. The best way to fight war is with love. Though I have to agree, while it's very understandable in your situation, one gender being superior is just ridiculous. How do you measure which gender is the best? Do gender traits (and all other traits for that matter) have numerical values that can be added up, multiplied and divided with each other? Are we all simply characters in a large scale RPG? No. How one values anything in life is subjective. Some things most people agree about, other things we'll forever be disagreeing about. Hell, even morals in society, e.g. that killing another person is bad, aren't objective truths. There are no objective proofs in real life when it comes to what is "best". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paj! Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I think what you're talking about there is the Japanese tendancy for gender disassociation which comes from a long history of sexual repression. And Nintendo are the last people to really be doing this kind of thing... Square Enix hello? Anime in general hello? Just came to mind being on a Nintendo forum. Not so sure about this. I'm all up for diversity. And to me, smooshing both sexes into 1 box rather than 2 doesn't seem to be much of a decent solution. It suggests that if you have someone who is a real sterotypical manly man or a womenly woman that somehow they are worse off than someone who's a bit of a grey area person. Like convergence is somehow the way forward. It's not, all you get is homogeny. Personally, I'm kind of tired of seeing people that you can't tell whether they are a boy or a girl. It's like the photographer / director / whatever is trying to be clever and somehow say something about sexes by saying nothing at all. As I said, diversity is key. Having a good spectrum of personalities and people types makes the world a better place, creates more interesting fashion (could someone pls do something about men's fashion pls?), culture, media, conversation and so on... I think I really just meant it was a good thing as it's progession toward equality/fairness between the sexes etc. (Can't remember my original post) I HATE the "emo" boy too, where it's impossible to tell what gender it is, too. That's taking a really bad joke too far, In my eyes. --- I don't think there'll never not be a stigma attached to men who dress "effeminately" or just strangely when they're among men who don't. Until it's like one of those Utopian visions of the future, where we all wear the same kind of grey jumpsuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molly Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I don't think there'll never not My brain just melted But yes, wooo for DIVERSITY! we should be able to love the differences while keeping the fairness and equality. I'll stop there before this turns into a black eyed peas song, yuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayseven Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Guys this is a thread ripped from the sexuality thread in order to focus on sexism. All this talk about sex and gender is besides the point; try to stay on topic and explore the debate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Well forgive me for not being PC but Rokhed you're a man. You were born a man and will always be a man. You can chop things off and create others in their place but you will still be a man. You say you're a woman in your mind but then you are saying that a man can't think like a woman. Why don't you stop fooling yourself that you're a woman and try and actually think about what it means to be a man. You've said before that gender is just something that your body is (or something along those lines), if that's the case then why do you need to have a woman's body? Surely it won't change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 why in this day and age is sexism so hard to get rid of? Two minor examples: I'm sorry, but that first example you showed us is just not sexism. It's called the truth. Men and women are very different when it comes to marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokhed00 Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 Guys this is a thread ripped from the sexuality thread in order to focus on sexism. All this talk about sex and gender is besides the point; try to stay on topic and explore the debate! I disagree, without sex and gender there would be no sexism. Well forgive me for not being PC but Rokhed you're a man. You were born a man and will always be a man. You can chop things off and create others in their place but you will still be a man. You say you're a woman in your mind but then you are saying that a man can't think like a woman. Why don't you stop fooling yourself that you're a woman and try and actually think about what it means to be a man. You've said before that gender is just something that your body is (or something along those lines), if that's the case then why do you need to have a woman's body? Surely it won't change anything. I'm sorry, but I am not a man, I tried being one, and whilst it may have looked like I was happy being a man it was all just denial and ultimately made me very unhappy. And you say it shouldn't matter what body I have, well maybe not to anyone else, but it does to me, and that is why I'm doing all this, for my own piece of mind, I know I'm never going to make a convincing woman, and that I'll always be viewed as a man by narrow minded people, but I don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted January 17, 2009 Share Posted January 17, 2009 I'm sorry, but I am not a man, I tried being one, and whilst it may have looked like I was happy being a man it was all just denial and ultimately made me very unhappy. And you say it shouldn't matter what body I have, well maybe not to anyone else, but it does to me, and that is why I'm doing all this, for my own piece of mind, I know I'm never going to make a convincing woman, and that I'll always be viewed as a man by narrow minded people, but I don't care. But why should it matter if you're in a woman's body or not? Why can't you be yourself in a man's body? There are plenty of feminine men. Not all men have to be butch and macho and Read Nuts and all of the other stereotypes. Break the mould. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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