flameboy Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Despair squid! Must be... See that's what I reckon but would they really redo a joke like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tapedeck Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 LOVING IT! Stilll...not as good as ye olde days (c'mon...is anything?) but yeah as a massive fan I've been both dissapointed AND enamoured by it's modern differences all at the same time. I agree with Flameys comments about the 4th wall scenario. Make. Or. Break atm. Kinda makes you miss the vastness of space... SOOOOO gutted I'm gonna miss tomorrows episode (damn social life!!) but Mondays epic-long night of Dwarf will make it even better - AND as it should have been (all one feature length episode!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcj metroid Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 See that's what I reckon but would they really redo a joke like that? hey they did the polymorph twice among other things... It's actually a very good theory because the squid thing seemed to end very abruply and well katerina arrived straight after... and she never explained why they could sustain 2 holograms.. Well maybe she's not a real one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameboy Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 hey they did the polymorph twice among other things... It's actually a very good theory because the squid thing seemed to end very abruply and well katerina arrived straight after... and she never explained why they could sustain 2 holograms.. Well maybe she's not a real one.. True...I just think people would expect something new from the specials rather than a retread of a previous plot twist...I'm not ruling it out...rather that than it become just a TV show... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViPeR Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 The despair squid is a pretty good theory. A lot of evidence points towards it. Then again I thought either Katerina or the Cat might be a Polymorph lol. The reason I say Cat is because he keeps leaving little gold origami things around the place. Did anyone else pick up on that? I did enjoy this episode a lot more than the last though. Didn't actually miss the laughter track to be honest and there were some pretty good jokes. All the references to Series 9 though, no offence but I don't want another series with Kochanski unless she gets leaves in the first episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameboy Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 The despair squid is a pretty good theory. A lot of evidence points towards it. Then again I thought either Katerina or the Cat might be a Polymorph lol. The reason I say Cat is because he keeps leaving little gold origami things around the place. Did anyone else pick up on that? I did enjoy this episode a lot more than the last though. Didn't actually miss the laughter track to be honest and there were some pretty good jokes. All the references to Series 9 though, no offence but I don't want another series with Kochanski unless she gets leaves in the first episode. The origami is another Bladerunner reference..but there does seem a connection, there seem to be theories that Cat is leaving a trail for the despair squid...but why? In reference to where I think the series will end up; They will end up meeting Doug Naylor. The opening credits featured the London skyline with the Tyrell building which is where the replicants go to meet their maker. The bullets for each of the characters shown in one of the teasers, are clearly from him. The inclusion of this building in the London skyline convinces me that they are not in our universe at least. One thing I read on another forum was someone commenting on how cheesy the whole coming out the TV thing is and how at times it feels like a Comic Relief reunion. Personally about the coming out of the TV thing they seemed to come to terms with it really easily..not like in Back to Reality when they tried to come to terms with their life having been a video game. I defintely think this should have been shown as one whole...The first episode simply put did not stand alone. I also think the endings to each episode have not been good enough cliffhangers. They need to be cut slightly better, I think Kryten and Rimmer's whispered convo during the dimension shift would have been a better cliffhanger and planted further seeds of doubt about the russian chick. Part of this could be down to the slightly shorter run time and how the show has had to be abruptly cut up. With the adverts and such like they will be working to 23/24 minutes a show as apposed to 28 mins on BBC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViPeR Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 The origami is another Bladerunner reference..but there does seem a connection, there seem to be theories that Cat is leaving a trail for the despair squid...but why? In reference to where I think the series will end up; They will end up meeting Doug Naylor. The opening credits featured the London skyline with the Tyrell building which is where the replicants go to meet their maker. The bullets for each of the characters shown in one of the teasers, are clearly from him. The inclusion of this building in the London skyline convinces me that they are not in our universe at least. One thing I read on another forum was someone commenting on how cheesy the whole coming out the TV thing is and how at times it feels like a Comic Relief reunion. Personally about the coming out of the TV thing they seemed to come to terms with it really easily..not like in Back to Reality when they tried to come to terms with their life having been a video game. I defintely think this should have been shown as one whole...The first episode simply put did not stand alone. I also think the endings to each episode have not been good enough cliffhangers. They need to be cut slightly better, I think Kryten and Rimmer's whispered convo during the dimension shift would have been a better cliffhanger and planted further seeds of doubt about the russian chick. Part of this could be down to the slightly shorter run time and how the show has had to be abruptly cut up. With the adverts and such like they will be working to 23/24 minutes a show as apposed to 28 mins on BBC. Well the Cat was attacked by the despair squid right? He doesn't remember what happened afterwards. So he could be leaving a trail and not even knowing it. The question remains is why. I think you're right about the Doug Naylor thing and how they'll end up meeting him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameboy Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) Apparently Part 2 "only" drew in 900,000ish viewers..I'm really excited about Part 3 hoping it will put everything else into context and make all add up. Couple of views of the digital spy forums...some of which I agree with; I've always been a big fan of this show and have read all the books. As a sci-fi and comedy fan I'd be happy if a show has either a good plot or lots of laughs. I'd be ecstatic if it has both. For example I think series 8 holds up pretty well comedywise even if you don't like the plot-holes, canonic contradictions and Kochanski and many sections in the books are serious and captivating without being a laugh a minute. Incidentally, I though Lister's scene in part 1 at Kochanski's grave was beautifully realised, having both humour and depth. Many people are praising the subtle references and in-jokes in part 2. I'm sorry but I thought these were about as unsubtle as you could get. The ideas in the script could of worked if it wasn't so heavy handed and the continuous pitches for another series were just lame. If pressed I imagine Naylor will probably come out with some line about this episode being a big thankyou to the fans and the fan club. Instead of being referenced, a better thankyou to the fan club would've been to write something original and funny. Having said that I am enjoying the specials but that's almost entirely down to the four leads who are excellent as always and doing their best with such poor material. I don't mind the CGI. Red Dwarf has never looked "real" with cheap sets etc... The "realness" for me comes when you have great characters and a great script. I'm 27 - watched it from series 3 onwards so I would have been around 10. I adore the show, it was a big part of my youth. I even was a member of the fan commentary team for Back To Reality I think what people are not liking about it is that it is so different from the original in style. The biggest mistake they could have made was to not make it funny and they certainly have avoided that pitfall. There's more moments where I've laughed out loud watching this than I have in most recent comedies. These characters are utter gold. The plot is extremely unusual but I think it shouldn't be taken at face value. There's clearly something else going on. A lot of the 'complaints' I had about the first episode's plot e.g. the lack of explanation about Kochanski, were explained in the second so I wouldn't be surprised if more explanations were on their way. Personally I think the only thing that hurts it is splitting it up. Would have been better running as an hour long special imo. I don't think this show can possibly work unless they go back to the original format and show it on the BBC without the add breaks. The new 3 parter sends itself up like one of those Comic Relief sketches and in my opinion this is like a spoof that's taking the p*ss out of itself and I can't class it as part of the RD series. Even if they explain the whole thing as a dream or haalucination, the writer has already broken the 4th wall with this and by doing so has made it look like a send up rather than a serious follow on from 'Only the Good.' They failed to tie up what happened after the last episode and why Rimmer is now a hologram again after being ressurected in series 8 as part of the RD crew. The Hologram Rimmer went off to become Ace in series 7 so unless the Series 8 Rimmer died then it leaves alot to be explained. Sloppy writing and a last ditch attempt to bring back a series that should have been left where it was. It's nice to see the old RD cast again but why did it have to end like this? The whole thing is embarrasing and makes the whole trillogy look desperate and rushed. Not only that but by making references to the Dave channel it makes it look like they've sold out and using the episode to plug or promote the channel. I also think that by making such references it dates the episode and in another 10 years time we will be looking back on this episode with embarrasment when Dave is no longer on the air thinking, "Who?, What?." Even the interviews on the making of had the Dave logo plastered all over flocked wallpaper background and sounded like it was filmed in a public toilet. It doesn't have the same polished feel that the previous productions had and came across like a reunion spoof and something that's not to be taken seriously as part of the Red Dwarf series. When I look back on the RD series' I will still say that it ended in series 8 and in my opinion I don't even want to recognise these cheesey, embarrasing send up episodes as being part of the programme whatsoever. and another fantastic point of view from the red dwarf forums; It isn't really our world though. Series IX didn't happen in our world, did it? Also, it's clear from the first part of the opening title there's a building in London that does not exist. The guy that "creates the masks" isn't a crazy chinese guy from a nose company either. So... He is right about the guy that made noses did anyone else notice; simulant Edited April 12, 2009 by flameboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbob Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) It does make me wonder really, with all these gaps and an unexplained ending between series 8 and Back to Earth, how it can all be explained in 3 specials. Honestly, this could of been the Series 9 we were looking for, with having Kochanski killed off early on, explaining how Rimmer is now a Hologram, and a Hard Light one in that fact (how??, the Rimmer that became Ace had the Hard Light drive, so he should be Soft Light). This all could have been spread out over 8-10 episodes and building on a bigger story. With Katrina coming, that should have been Episode 2 and going back through time should be episode 3. They are good episodes to be fair, they just seem rushed and shouldn't have been split into 3 parts. Edited April 12, 2009 by Jimbob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro_Link Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 The good thing is that this special is ignorable should it not turn out right. If as a result of this special Series IX and X are confirmed, then we'll be back on Red Dwarf/Starbug with the story playing out properly. What's this 4th Wall thing btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameboy Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) The good thing is that this special is ignorable should it not turn out right. If as a result of this special Series IX and X are confirmed, then we'll be back on Red Dwarf/Starbug with the story playing out properly. What's this 4th Wall thing btw? Stepping out the show and breaking the 4th Wall by entering "our world" as their characters... EDIT; There is speculation that we may not see Series IX and X but instead XI...strange I know... Edited April 12, 2009 by flameboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbob Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Well, it would be nice to see one more full series of Red Dwarf sometime soon, you know. These specials i think are to re-ignite interest in the series to wet our appetites as such, ready for the main course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happenstance Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Im assuming these specials will end with the announcement of series 11 which is based around the search for Kochanski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViPeR Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Apparently the entire cast are up for a new series. Though i'm not entirely sure I want one. Some of the jokes have been good but some are a bit naff. Bring back Rob Grant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameboy Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) Despair Squid ahoy!!! EDIT; Fantastic...we are a make belief universe in the Red Dwarf world...gotta love it... I'm now taking the approach it was a different kind of RD, a different beast but for me its no less good. I think there were less gags per say and way too many Bladerunner references for those who aren't going to have a clue whats going on, for me I loved it cos it's my favourite film. Edited April 12, 2009 by flameboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikah Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 What did I tell ya... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViPeR Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Hmm so if they did a series 9 it'd continue from there I assume. Pretty good little special. Had some good typical Dwarf moments here and there but I felt a lot of it was drawing from old jokes from past series. Some of the new material was good, some was a little off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 Not too bad an ending, but I think it was a very strange decision to base so much of this big anniversary special on a film that a lot of viewers (including myself) won't have seen. Like the other two episodes, tonight's episode was pretty low on jokes, but at least there wasn't as much product placement as yesterday, and the story tied up nicely in the end. The main bit that felt odd was how Lister left Kochanski so suddenly. If Doug Naylor is going to stay the main writer, I definitely wouldn't want a new series, but I'd probably be up for it if they were going to get new writers in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameboy Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Bladerunner is a great film for anyone who hasn't seen it, recommend it...will make Back to Earth seem better I'd say because there were a ton of references. The writer said Bladerunner was the inspiration behind your creation and now will be your death. I don't really see how it can have influenced it. Him leaving Kochankshi was was a mock of the original ending from Bladerunner that no one liked as it was forced by the studio...The somewhat sterile nature of their "romance" kinda matches that found in Bladerunner as well... It really shouldn't have been a surprise that it was version of the despair squid. They have reused numerous ideas throughout the years really when you think about it, Polymorph (as mentioned before) Dwayne Dibberly, Ace Rimmer. The Corrie scenes weren't as cringy... One thing in retrospective I like is Craig Charles performance. When he was cracking the jokes he was fine but the rest of the time he had this kind of sub dued air about him, I think this is a good progression of him as a character it, this was no more obvious than the scenes on Corrie. Best scenes for me were; typewriter scene, the scene in the newspaper shop and the landing of carbug. All in the last episode... I think it should have been shown all in the run, the slower pace did not fit the half an hour cuts, it made each separately seem slow and blotted. Going forward I think I would rather see a series following on from here. I want to see this exploration of a man growing old in space as the only living human. They could go back and do the Series 9 and 10 that were alluded to, which would give us all the the closure we all want, but would it work with all the actors clearly having aged? No don't think it would. Perhaps they can allude to it in another way? I also think the CGI need to be lowered just watching the making of and sad how much was on green screen and yes mechanical skutters are a pain in the arse but please the CGI ones just looked naff...Also if they are going to go forward Doug please take on new writers for the puns, you are good at crafting a good plot but not cracking a joke. I think if you look back at the best Red Dwarf has to offer this is not even close... No point trying to pretend it is, it really isn't. Overall I'd give Back to Earth a 7/10- that's at a push, I think as one film it deserves a 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEVILMURRAY Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I just watched all three. I have to say I'm fucking gutted. It was terrible. About 4-5 humourous moments, disregarding the amount of things left unexplained. Like Katarina being "flawless", Kryten was trying to say something but Rimmer cut him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameboy Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 (edited) Just to confirm...Rimmer quite clearly is the original hologram, he remembered the despair squid from earlier in the series something the resurrected Rimmer of series 8 would not have known about. So many questions stand..Why the hell is he so wippy again when he is has been Ace Rimmer? Perhaps something in his hologram programming has been reset, totally speculative of course... Personally it's grown on me...I'm going to watch them all again back to back. I think there is a definite shift in tone. Clearly more self referential and poking fun at themselves, the characters were placed in funny situations rather than being funny through who they are, its led to a different type of humour. I still think its not as laugh out loud as it used to be, but I don't think Back to Earth was a complete failure. Evilmurray just to say the flawless quote doesn't matter. She was only there as a means of the despair squid's hallucination getting the crew to go home. It likely created the most suitable science officer and therefore intelligent and flawless crew member so they would be convinced to go along with it and believe her... And finally for those who want it, people have been experimenting adding the laughter track; Edited April 13, 2009 by flameboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEVILMURRAY Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Just to confirm...Rimmer quite clearly is the original hologram, he remembered the despair squid from earlier in the series something the resurrected Rimmer of series 8 would not have known about. So many questions stand..Why the hell is he so wippy again when he is has been Ace Rimmer? Perhaps something in his hologram programming has been reset, totally speculative of course... This is ignoring the mirror dimension at the end of season 8, with physical Rimmer kneeing Death in the nads. D'ya think they remade Rimmer in the mirror dimension and somehow refreshed his memory on everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 Perhaps he died and Holly re-built old Rimmer. Or something. Anyway, I enjoyed the special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameboy Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 This is ignoring the mirror dimension at the end of season 8, with physical Rimmer kneeing Death in the nads. D'ya think they remade Rimmer in the mirror dimension and somehow refreshed his memory on everything? I think that Series 8 Rimmer is dead and didn't find a way back...They could technically have created a new Rimmer hologram with both set of memories I guess? Because in Series 6 when he is reloaded after being frozen you see a screen loading up things like memories and personality etc... So they could have created a Rimmer hologram with Memories up until he left in Series 6 plus memories from Series 8?! Another plot hole that has been highlighted over at the red dwarf forums is that the squid couldn't possibly have survived since Back to Reality as Red Dwarf has been taken apart and rebuilt by the nanobots since then, why would they recreate the squid?! Surely it would have got left on the planet like Holly, with all the other things they didn't want? Problem is if Back to Earth is a sign of what we can expect from a potential new series and its going to be more serious in tone and more sci fi, then these kinda plot holes can't go unmissed like they could if it was a straight comedy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEVILMURRAY Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 I think that Series 8 Rimmer is dead and didn't find a way back...They could technically have created a new Rimmer hologram with both set of memories I guess? Because in Series 6 when he is reloaded after being frozen you see a screen loading up things like memories and personality etc... So they could have created a Rimmer hologram with Memories up until he left in Series 6 plus memories from Series 8?! Isn't that what I said[ish]? The crew trying to adapt to the mirror dimension would've been an interesting concept. Also, wouldn't there be double the crew since the mirror ship would have it's own crew before the "normal" crew escaped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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