The War/Panic Thread

[Guest Maase]

Hum... so Georgians decided to make peace now, hun? Yeah, good luck with that... Didn't Russian do the exactly same thing before you... hum... ATTACKED THEM?

 

Anyway, i hope Russia accepts and this ends...

 

Edit: Oh, so Russia says they are lying about it and they didn't cease fire, are they lying or are Russians lying?

 

I think the Georgians are lying, like i said before, Georgians attacked Russia when they tried to get peace, and now suddenly they change of minds? Most problably not, maybe it was a failed strategy.

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

Hum... so Georgians decided to make peace now, hun? Yeah, good luck with that... Didn't Russian do the exactly same thing before you... hum... ATTACKED THEM?

 

Anyway, i hope Russia accepts and this ends...

 

Edit: Oh, so Russia says they are lying about it and they didn't cease fire, are they lying or are Russians lying?

 

I think the Georgians are lying, like i said before, Georgians attacked Russia when they tried to get peace, and now suddenly they change of minds? Most problably not, maybe it was a failed strategy.

 

...No more Coca-Cola for you young man. :P

 

Ageism aside, I admire your 'pep' but you're getting a little bit carried away, paranoid maybe. Though I suppose its alway good to see the young engage in politics.

[McPhee]

Hum... so Georgians decided to make peace now, hun? Yeah, good luck with that... Didn't Russian do the exactly same thing before you... hum... ATTACKED THEM?

 

Anyway, i hope Russia accepts and this ends...

 

Edit: Oh, so Russia says they are lying about it and they didn't cease fire, are they lying or are Russians lying?

 

I think the Georgians are lying, like i said before, Georgians attacked Russia when they tried to get peace, and now suddenly they change of minds? Most problably not, maybe it was a failed strategy.

 

You don't really get this situation do you?

 

Georgia didn't attack Russia, they attacked South Ossetia. On a map South Ossetia is a region of Georgia, in reality though (and at the begining of post-soviet Georgia) it was an autonimous region. It had it's own sub gouvernment. Sadly the Georgians and South Ossetians fell out and basically parted ways (unofficially). Georgia wants South Ossetia to fall in to line with the rest of Georgia rather than being independant. They don't recognise "South Ossetians", they see them as Georgians rebeling against a Georgian gouvernment.

 

Last week Georgia decided to end the "rebellion" and moved troops in to South Ossetia. Russia then stood up for South Ossetia's independance (which they have supported since 1992 by supplying arms and money) by moving their troops in to South Ossetia.

 

Georgia didn't attack Russia, Russia attacked Georgia. The vast majority of South Ossetians hold Russian passports (given to them by the Russian government) and are therefore Russian citizens. Technically Russia are protecting their own citizens, not invading another country. Some people are calling hijinks, insisting that Russia's motives are selfish and that they plan to destroy Georgia. We won't know if that is true until Russian tanks start rolling in to un-disputed Georgian territory. Hopefully that never happens, i'd like to think that Russia are just being the peacekeepers in all this (for all of our sakes).

 

As for the cease-fire, give it a day or two. Sometimes the message takes time to get through to all forces.

[blender]

you cant explain a war unless you mention oil or resources

[McPhee]

you cant explain a war unless you mention oil or resources

 

With South Ossetia under their control Russia has only ~50km between their forces and the BTC oil pipeline. Without it there's a mahoosive mountain range in the way that is relatively easy to defend.

 

If we ever went to war with Russia then they'd find it a lot easier to steal our oil with South Ossetia under their control.

[gaggle64]

South Ossetia won a degree of autonomy following a civil war in the early 1990s and declared independence but have never been internationally recognized. Georgia did break a 24hr ceasefire, which Russia almost certainly used as an excuse to move in. The Georgian president was elected on a mandate of recovering territory lost during the civil war.

 

In recent months Russian support for the separatists greatly increased after NATO suggested that Georgia could one day become a member, which would make Russia completely surrounded by NATO territories. This attack on Georgia will almost certainly discourage NATO from accepting Georgia as a member, as NATO are eager to avoid a major conflict.

 

Also a new pipeline running across Georgia from the gas fields, bypassing Russia, considerably reduces Russia's influence in the area.

[Guest Maase]

I know it, Mcphee, i was talking when Russia said to make cease fire, and Georgians continued to invade South Ossetia, now they're finally telling they will cease fire, will the Russians believe in them?

 

Russians told us that they weren't planning on ceasing fire even tough they received the message and Georgians are saying that they were telling the truth.

 

I believe that Georgians are lying, but maybe that rumour about NATO and Russia/Georgia (See wikipedia if you don't know what it is) is true, :S

 

Edit: Also, isn't North Ossetia part of Russia? I really didn't know South Ossetia was an independent country until now.

[Jonnas]

Well, hopefully this conflict can end quickly. I don't think it will go as far as WWIII, though.

 

Maase, you'd do well in calming down a little.

[Emasher]

TBF, when you're 14 you get over excited (for lack of better word) about this kind of stuff. I'm sure we've all done it.

[McPhee]

Edit: Also, isn't North Ossetia part of Russia? I really didn't know South Ossetia was an independent country until now.

 

South Ossetia isn't an independant country, it's an autonimous region of Georgia. Many of the people there are Russian citizens though, Russia have been handing out passports to the people living there for over a decade now.

[Charlie]

you cant explain a war unless you mention oil or resources

 

Ofcourse not, why else would people go to war? People used to attack each other since the ancient days to get gold, money, women, slaves, land and more power for themselves. All of which are essentially resources.

[Emasher]

Ofcourse not, why else would people go to war? People used to attack each other since the ancient days to get gold, money, women, slaves, land and more power for themselves. All of which are essentially resources.

 

Just be glad we don't have any feminists here. Or do we?

[Charlie]

Just be glad we don't have any feminists here. Or do we?

 

Yeah, well it's true, maybe not as much now as it used to be but it definitely still happens.

[Chris the great]

ok, i read the paper every day, and yet this has all gone by me? what the fuck?

[blender]

Hazel et al attacked Efrafa for access to does. It seemed a strange reason to go to war as Woundwart et al were very powerful (a bit like georgia versus russia). It also seemed odd as barring that cat, the caged does at Nuthanger farm would have provided a slow but regular supply. I mean, they got at least two out initially. But wars arnt always rational. The clever thing was making it a world war by getting the dog involved. So it is only by escalation that minows stand a chance, so ww3 is what georgia must want.

 

......................Kehaar Kehaar

[Charlie]

ok, i read the paper every day, and yet this has all gone by me? what the fuck?

 

I'm not surprised, it's getting very little coverage. When it all started on Friday the BBC's lead story was the Olympic Opening Ceremony and the same with most of Saturday's papers. I haven't seen a paper today to check what it says.

 

It's a really confusing conflict. Georgia was part of Russia, then it wasn't, then it was and now it isn't. South Osstentia (sp?) is Georgian sovereign territory but doesn't recognise the Government of Georgia. Georgia's military moved into the region, Russia responded with airstrikes (the majority of residents there hold a Russian passport as they got them given out for free by Putin some years ago).

 

So, Russia are defending their citizens but Georgia is trying to protect its territory. So who's right? I think Russia are up to something, the West aren't going to do anything about it though because we don't want to annoy Russia any more than we have to.

[Iun]

 

So, Russia are defending their citizens but Georgia is trying to protect its territory. So who's right? I think Russia are up to something, the West aren't going to do anything about it though because we don't want to annoy Russia any more than we have to.

 

Yes, right now we're limiting it to petty name-calling and making faces across the playground. I do love the UN.

 

And as you said, this is damned peculiar...

 

"Yellow alert."

 

"Energising defence fields."

[MoogleViper]

ok, i read the paper every day, and yet this has all gone by me? what the fuck?

 

I've been on holiday so I'm trying to pick up what's happened in here. But I'm still confused. Can somebody explain it to me in one post please.

[The fish]

I've been on holiday so I'm trying to pick up what's happened in here. But I'm still confused. Can somebody explain it to me in one post please.

 

Georgia has been probing at South Ossetia for several years, increasing in intensity. On the day of the Olympic opening ceremony, the 8th, they started large scale artillery strikes against South Ossetia, and sent troops across the boarder. Russia responded by sending tanks across the boarder into South Ossetia, and conducted air strikes against Georgian positions. Georgian troops were (relatively) slowly pushed back by the Russian war machine, and on the 9th, the Russians had almost completely taken the capital of South Ossetia, whilst simultaneously launching air strikes on Gori, the nearest town of any size in Georgia to the boarder, killing many civilians, and Poti, a port. Yesterday, Russia's Black Sea fleet made sail for the Georgian coast from their base in Sevestapol, Ukraine, only to be told that they would not be allowed back into port by the Ukraine.

 

As of today, the Russians have taken almost all the South Ossetia, and completely taken the capital. They've been hitting Tblisi, the Georgian capital, from the air, and have hit Gori and Poti again. They're also supporting separatists in another region of Georgia, Abkhazia, which also boarders Russia, and is coastal, so it is the likely destination from the now-baseless Russian Black Sea Fleet.

 

At present, French and Finnish diplomats are en route to Moscow from Tblisi in an attempt to get a a ceasefire (which the Georgians now feel they want) from the Russians.

[McPhee]

I'm not surprised, it's getting very little coverage. When it all started on Friday the BBC's lead story was the Olympic Opening Ceremony and the same with most of Saturday's papers. I haven't seen a paper today to check what it says.

 

It's a really confusing conflict. Georgia was part of Russia, then it wasn't, then it was and now it isn't. South Osstentia (sp?) is Georgian sovereign territory but doesn't recognise the Government of Georgia. Georgia's military moved into the region, Russia responded with airstrikes (the majority of residents there hold a Russian passport as they got them given out for free by Putin some years ago).

 

So, Russia are defending their citizens but Georgia is trying to protect its territory. So who's right? I think Russia are up to something, the West aren't going to do anything about it though because we don't want to annoy Russia any more than we have to.

 

They are up to something. As i mentioned in a previous post South Ossetia is very close to the BTC oil pipeline. In the even of a large scale conflict with the west they'd be able to strike at the pipeline quickly, removing one of our main fuel resources. South Ossetia also makes a great base with which to strike southwards through Georgia and in to Turkey, Armenia and Azerbaijan. Essentially it's a Russian gateway to the south making attacks a lot easier.

[Charlie]

Georgia has been probing at South Ossetia for several years, increasing in intensity. On the day of the Olympic opening ceremony, the 8th, they started large scale artillery strikes against South Ossetia, and sent troops across the boarder. Russia responded by sending tanks across the boarder into South Ossetia, and conducted air strikes against Georgian positions. Georgian troops were (relatively) slowly pushed back by the Russian war machine, and on the 9th, the Russians had almost completely taken the capital of South Ossetia, whilst simultaneously launching air strikes on Gori, the nearest town of any size in Georgia to the boarder, killing many civilians, and Poti, a port. Yesterday, Russia's Black Sea fleet made sail for the Georgian coast from their base in Sevestapol, Ukraine, only to be told that they would not be allowed back into port by the Ukraine.

 

As of today, the Russians have taken almost all the South Ossetia, and completely taken the capital. They've been hitting Tblisi, the Georgian capital, from the air, and have hit Gori and Poti again. They're also supporting separatists in another region of Georgia, Abkhazia, which also boarders Russia, and is coastal, so it is the likely destination from the now-baseless Russian Black Sea Fleet.

 

At present, French and Finnish diplomats are en route to Moscow from Tblisi in an attempt to get a a ceasefire (which the Georgians now feel they want) from the Russians.

 

You have to remember that South Ossetia is actually Georgian sovereign territory though. It declared its independence in the early 1990s but that isn't recognised by the UN.

[The fish]

South Ossetia also makes a great base with which to strike southwards through Georgia and in to Turkey, Armenia and Azerbaijan. Essentially it's a Russian gateway to the south making attacks a lot easier.

 

I doubt Turkey is on their list - Turkey is a member of NATO.

 

You have to remember that South Ossetia is actually Georgian sovereign territory though. It declared its independence in the early 1990s but that isn't recognised by the UN.

 

I never said it wasn't. Georgia was moving against separatists within it's boarders, and Russia went in to "peace-enforce". However, they're now hitting targets with air strikes miles outside of the conflict zone that aren't being used for military build up by Georgia - Tblisi and Poti, in particular.

[Daft]

ok, i read the paper every day, and yet this has all gone by me? what the fuck?

 

Because the papers are full of shite and report only what they want or what will sell. I stopped reading the papers along time ago, they just contain reams of misinformation.

[Charlie]

I never said it wasn't. Georgia was moving against separatists within it's boarders, and Russia went in to "peace-enforce". However, they're now hitting targets with air strikes miles outside of the conflict zone that aren't being used for military build up by Georgia - Tblisi and Poti, in particular.

 

Yeah I know, I was just saying because it seemed from your post that S. Ossetia was a seperate country and didn't want to confuse the guy who asked what was happening.

[Tales]

I just read that Russian ground forces have moved into Georgia in the city of Senaki south of Abkhasia. Supposedly it is to prevent Georgian forces to regroup and perform attacks in South Ossetia.