Slaggis Posted December 14, 2007 Posted December 14, 2007 So I'm not fully knowledgeable of what I do, as a 17 year old? Nope. Intill you hit 18, you shouldn't go to jail for murder. Emasher, that is a little mis-guided don't you think? Someone of 14/15/16/17 knows exactly what they're doing and are perfectly capable of taking responsibility for their actions. When those two 10 year old boys planned, and carried out the murder of James Patrick Bulger (3 years old) they knew exactly what they were doing. Thats why they were tried in an adult court.
Oxigen_Waste Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 So I'm not fully knowledgeable of what I do, as a 17 year old? That's not it, you still don't realize some of the consequences of your actions. Of course, that's something that comes into play in your twenties, so the 18 thing is rather dumb nonetheless.
darkcloud Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 That's not it, you still don't realize some of the consequences of your actions. Of course, that's something that comes into play in your twenties, so the 18 thing is rather dumb nonetheless. Were you really that slow a developer?
fex Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 (edited) By the age of 10, a child knows what right and wrong is. Going by that, they should be charged by that age. I was going to post exactly the same. Easily by the age of ten a child knows what is right and what is wrong. We had a man walk into our work on Thursday, wait for the woman on the till to open it, then he pulled a gun out on her and said "Give me your money" Her and another woman nearby froze. To which the guy confessed this gun was fake and he started joking around with them. Anyway the police got him and slapped an ?80 fine him (Only ?80 for pulling a gun out, pointing it at two people and completely shitting up two old women). Whilst talking with the police he refused to admit that he had done anything wrong so even fully grown adults once they've been consuming some alcohol (and he probably wasn't all there) don't understand between right and wrong. I still think something more than an ?80 should of been issued, jeez you get that fine plus 3 points for just nipping 3 mph over the speed limit (I know braking the law is breaking the law) but there is accidental and there is intentional and different scales in seriousness. Argh well. England. Anyway the guy is now suing the council and the company as he now hasn't got enough money for Christmas presents. More armed robbery should do the trick. ________ Silver Surfer Herbal Vaporizer Edited April 28, 2011 by fex
Daft Posted December 15, 2007 Author Posted December 15, 2007 I think everyone has nailed it. When you are about that age, roughly 10, you know what is right and what is wrong. BUT can you really understand the full effect of your actions. On the surface you know murder is wrong but at that age do you really understand why?
jayseven Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 I think the existence of this thread, and the ensuing existence of a debate over when one knows the difference between right and wrong, is in itself proof that 'right' and 'wrong' are not black and white :P I'm a totally different person to who I was aged 10. I did things then that I would never do today - I stole the coppers from my sister's piggy bank. I stole stickers from magazines in the newsagents. I got into fights... I called a teacher a rude name... It's all well and good knowing the abstract nature of what is Good and what is Bad, but it is your own previous experience of these things that determines the real significance and truly forms the idea of 'consequence' in your mind. I actually remember my mum telling me about the Jamie Bulger (i think that was the 3-year old's name) killing when I was a little over 10 years old. She had chosen to make sure I knew nothing of it as not to scare me - and you have to acknowledge the fact that there is censorship and restrictions placed upon news and information that young kids can access. It makes a difference, I'd bet. I've seen on facebook some circular spammy shit going round on people's 'super annoying wall' thing, saying that they're petitioning to get the "kid A" (and B, i guess) guys who murdered Jamie to stay imprisoned, instead of their new lives in New Zealand (or something, I don't know how true it is). Personally I've been a bit disgusted at the level of response and support... Maybe this is more of a thing for the other thread? Second chances and all that... But surely they do deserve another chance? Imagine them sitting in a cell aged 70, spending 60 years inside. What sort of a life is that? Surely they should be given the opportunity to make it up to society, to become better people and make a difference in the lives of others? Counselling... Guidance... Educating. Surely that's far more progressive and constructive than just locking everyone up willy nilly? Gah, whatever. The justice system is too confusing and seemingly useless for me to get involved with.
Wesley Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 No, if it was a kid under five it was almost certainly the parents fault. The parents should be fined so they learn something and then teach their kid wright and wrong. Counseling would be hard for a kid that young, it would be better just to try and get the parents to teach them. And if it continues obviously the kid should be put in a home. Damn I'm glad that law isn't in place. For a child that young not to be dealt with after killing someone is insane. Sure, counseling will be hard. So you're going to out a price on someone else's son or daughter, and then leave it up to the parents of the murder to teach the child right from wrong? Because clearly they're doing a really good job at teaching morals to children.
The fish Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 That's not it, you still don't realize some of the consequences of your actions. Who the fuck are you to judge me and how responsible I am? I'd say it's fairly fucking obvious to me that if I do something, there are consequences. Were you really that slow a developer? As he seems to think everyone my age is irresponsible, I'm going to go with 'yes'.
El Che Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 I don't care how old you are. If you do the crime, you fucking well do the time.
Daft Posted December 15, 2007 Author Posted December 15, 2007 I don't care how old you are. If you do the crime, you fucking well do the time. And how long exactly would this time be? Things just aren't that simple.
El Che Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 And how long exactly would this time be? Depends obviously, but murder should be life.
Daft Posted December 15, 2007 Author Posted December 15, 2007 Depends obviously, but murder should be life. Do you not think it would be better to first find out why the person in question felt the need commit the crime? Do you not think it is possible that their actions were at least partly a consequence of their environment? I'm not trying to justify the crime but why was that crime committed in the first place? With the most shocking of crimes you tend to find at some point, society has failed these people. Especially when you are young, you have so little control over your environment. Do you not think these factors should be taken into account?
El Che Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 Do you not think it would be better to first find out why the person in question felt the need commit the crime? Do you not think it is possible that their actions were at least partly a consequence of their environment? I'm not trying to justify the crime but why was that crime committed in the first place? With the most shocking of crimes you tend to find at some point, society has failed these people. Especially when you are young, you have so little control over your environment. Do you not think these factors should be taken into account? Oh dear. Fucking listen to yourself you soft ****.
Slaggis Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 Oh dear. Fucking listen to yourself you soft ****. Daft makes a perfectly acceptable point, maybe you should take your own advice and listen to yourself. So far on the forum you've made yourself sound like a complete arse, and you've only just joined (imo) -- You can't just say if someone commits murder, they should go down for life etc. There can be many different circumstances involved in a case. Thats why crimes are looked at individualy rather than, "oh, a murder, right thats life".
Wesley Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 Oh dear. Fucking listen to yourself you soft ****. Yeah me and you man, we're hardxcore. Lets go into his house with some AKs and take charge. Fuck! Yeah!!!!
Daft Posted December 15, 2007 Author Posted December 15, 2007 Oh dear. Fucking listen to yourself you soft ****. If you can convince me otherwise I'd be more than happy change my views.
jayseven Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 Che Guevara killed a lot of people... Do you not differentiate his from any other type of murder?
El Che Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 Che Guevara killed a lot of people... Do you not differentiate his from any other type of murder? I knew that was coming :rolleyes:
jayseven Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 Doesn't excuse your own hypocricy :rolleyes:
Mr_Odwin Posted December 15, 2007 Posted December 15, 2007 Oh dear. Fucking listen to yourself you soft ****. Yellow Infraction issued.
MoogleViper Posted December 16, 2007 Posted December 16, 2007 Do you not think it would be better to first find out why the person in question felt the need commit the crime? Do you not think it is possible that their actions were at least partly a consequence of their environment? I'm not trying to justify the crime but why was that crime committed in the first place? With the most shocking of crimes you tend to find at some point, society has failed these people. Especially when you are young, you have so little control over your environment. Do you not think these factors should be taken into account? We all have troubles. But we don't all go out and kill people. I'm not going to go out and kill someone because I stryggle to wipe my own arse. My grandad didn't go out and kill somebody when he was diagnosed with lukaemia. If you can't control yourself then you don't deserve freedom.
Slaggis Posted December 16, 2007 Posted December 16, 2007 We all have troubles. But we don't all go out and kill people. I'm not going to go out and kill someone because I stryggle to wipe my own arse. My grandad didn't go out and kill somebody when he was diagnosed with lukaemia. If you can't control yourself then you don't deserve freedom. What if there was a child that was bought up in terrible conditions, they were mis-treated, beaten all their life and basically told they were shit and worth nothing. What if when that child finally had the strength to do something about it, in a moment of rage he killed his parents. That child doesn't deserve life in prison or whatever, surely? (Extreme case, but it's all I could come up with at this precise moment).
Iun Posted December 16, 2007 Posted December 16, 2007 Agree with Moogle. Freedom is a privilege given to those who do not break the law.
MoogleViper Posted December 16, 2007 Posted December 16, 2007 What if there was a child that was bought up in terrible conditions, they were mis-treated, beaten all their life and basically told they were shit and worth nothing. What if when that child finally had the strength to do something about it, in a moment of rage he killed his parents. That child doesn't deserve life in prison or whatever, surely? (Extreme case, but it's all I could come up with at this precise moment). I see what you mean but the child should know the conscequences of the actions he chooses. Besides there are other ways of dealing with it. Social workers, police etc.
Slaggis Posted December 16, 2007 Posted December 16, 2007 I see what you mean but the child should know the conscequences of the actions he chooses. Besides there are other ways of dealing with it. Social workers, police etc. True, thats a good point. But, there are some cases where children have been killed etc by being treated so badly by their so called parents because social workers have done nothing ( For instance that 7 year old a few years back that was killed by her parents because social workers did nothing for her, her parents burnt her in scolding hot baths, she was raped and beaten). What would you say if there was so much anger inside you because you've been beaten everyday of your life, had horrific things done to you and you just crack and kill them? Would you think you deserve to go down for life? Also, if you were bring treated so horrifically, do you think your parents would allow you to call the police?
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