Wii Philosophy and General Discussion

[Jamba]

Right. There's been a lot of discussion recently about the reasonning behind the Wii, it's direction and its market philosophy. It seems that lot's of people are confused as to whether Nintendo are catering for them anymore or whether the Wii-remote is all it was cracked up to be.

 

So here is a clean space for your general Wii thoughts and discussions about the phenomenom know as Wii.

 

 

I'd like to point out a few observations to start with:

 

The whole reason that Nintendo created the Wii was to appeal to a broader audience. Therefore the console was designed with new or returning gamers in mind, as well as more conventional gamers.So, in my mind, if i extrapolate that concept and apply it to how things have panned out from the release, I see these consequences (or symptoms as some ppl may prefer :p ).

 

Nintendo have always been their own work horse. It's been a long time since Nintendo had a console that wasn't, by majority, driven by it's own software. So now when it came to expanding their audience, the armada of dev teams had to spread themselves extremely thin to cater for these markets. Therefore it is natural for us more conventional gamers to feel a little left out because we are getting a reduced amount of attention by comparison. Think of us as an upset child who has just forceably had to accept a new little brother or sister into their lives. Mum and Dad get to spend less time with you but it doesnt mean they love you any less!

 

In the long run it will be up to 3rd parties to make up the lack of attention we get (and not to mention bolster that given to the casual or new market). And this will take time. I think due to Nintendo's recent success with winning the trust back of many devs and publishers (more importantly) it is easy to get impatient in terms of waiting to reap the rewards of these ventures. We should all bare in mind that from a buisness agreement being made and a game being produced from that agreement can easily take a year and a half. And here's another reason to love your "little brother or sister". Their affections have sold so many Wiis that 3rd party are having to make games for the system now. Publishers (not devs) often decide which platform a game lands on and not producing games for the Wii now is just downright folly.

 

-Another reason not to worry -

The combination of market share and inexpensive development makes financial risk low and potential rewards high. Publishers couldnt ask for a better deal.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, welcome to the thread!

[blender]

i think any philosphical discussion can only be taken as indicative of a lack of new/future games

[Jamba]

i think any philosphical discussion can only be taken as indicative of a lack of new/future games

 

Hmmm, interesting you should snipe the word philosophical considering that it infers thinking before opening your trap. Spose i can't talk tho as i botched the title.

[Hero-of-Time]

Spose i can't talk tho as i botched the title.

 

Did you really?

 

*Waves Mod wand*

[tapedeck]

I'll rant on when I've thought about this one. Maybe I just wholly agree. Will think about it while on the lavvy. Peace out for now.

[Pit-Jr]

Nintendo is so full of shit with their 'philosophies'

Its all about money and theyre the best in the business at making it so more power to them.

 

If money werent an issue, the Wii wouldnt exist.

 

I dont hate the Wii, mind, because its a better version of the GC and i love my GC but Nintendo are capable of far far better

[Chris the great]

im njot to happy about the new philosophy, sure games have wider appeal, but they are also alot easier, and seem dumbed down.

 

i liked playing gams that were complex and used every button, i don't like the idea that all games are made accessable to my gran, id rather games were just accessable to who they appealed to, complcated games, typicaly rts's usualy appeal to people with the skills to play them, i don't like breezing through games just because its easier for none gamers to grasp.

 

don't get me wrong, i love wii sports, brain training and stuff like that, but it hardly holds my attention for long periods.

[DCK]

To be honest philosophy in this sense is just a fancy word for marketing.

 

Nintendo, however, do a (far) better job than the other two companies at the moment.

[AshMat]

I don't think it really needs saying that i'm not happy.

First of all i think, despite what people say, they've forgotten about the core gamers, they're doing so well with new casual gamers that that's all they care about getting out there.

Second of all i moved away to msn for 20 minutes and forgot what i was going to post..

[McMad]

The philosophy behind the Wii is clearly the same philosophy that made the DS.

 

The Gamecube failed because it was the same as the rest of the competition, so Nintendo needed to make a console that was different and would attract a large audience.

 

But as a person that was perfectly happy with his Gamecube, Nintendo's new philosophy just doesn't work for me, I've tried the casual games and they're nothing compared to the epic games Nintendo makes.

 

My problem is that the Wii doesn't have any games I really want to play, while the other consoles have many games I'd love to play.

 

I don't know about you guys but I'd happily spend £425 on a PS3 to play a game I want to play than spend £20 on Brain Age because it's the only game out at the moment.

 

I'll always be a hardcore gamer and frankly I hate half of Nintendo's games these days, but I'm sticking with my Wii because there are at least 5 games coming that make the Wii worth owning.

[jammy2211]

Personally I'm yet to be convinced that Nintendo 'new' philosophy is forgetting about core gamers. I'm not denying there's been a drought of games since launch, but even then it's nowhere near as bad as the droughts we suffered during the GameCube and N64 days.

 

16 of the top 20 best selling franchises on GameCube have a sequel annouced for it on the Wii. Now excuse me, but with this sort of fact in mind how exactly is Nintendo forgetting everyone who enjoyed the GameCube in it's day?

 

All I can say is look at the line up for the rest of the year, we still have all the great Nintendo games (Smash Bros, Metroid, Mario, Mario Kart, Battalion Wars, Fire Emblem etc), but on top of these we're starting to see an influx of third party games the GameCube simply never had. To be honest, I dare someone to convince me the GameCube had more 'hardcore' games lined up for it at this point in it's life.

 

Of course, I think 2008 will be the telling year of where the Wii goes. By then we'll know of the best third party projects looking to have a piece of the Wii pie, and we'll know how much Nintendo 'shift' their focus after having success in the casual market (I do appreciate games like Mario / Metroid etc started developement long before Nintendo knew they would have so much luck with the casuals). The way I see it is though, provided games like Mario / Smash Bros / Metroid etc continue to sell millions upon millions, Nintendo arn't going to stop making them.

 

So my final thought? Don't worry about it. Enjoy 2007 / Early 2008 as it's one hell of a killer line up, and then we'll see what sort of games are lined up from then onwards, provided we see a DS scenario, I aint complaining.

[AshMat]

 

16 of the top 20 best selling franchises on GameCube have a sequel annouced for it on the Wii. Now excuse me, but with this sort of fact in mind how exactly is Nintendo forgetting everyone who enjoyed the GameCube in it's day?

 

.

 

Still yes, the GC gave us loads of great new IPs, Pikmin, Metroid Prime (well it was a new more up to date version), even luigi's mansion (which when you think about it would have been even better to start off the Wii.

Now all the awesome games from before are just sequels, with barely any great new IPs.

[jammy2211]

Still yes, the GC gave us loads of great new IPs, Pikmin, Metroid Prime (well it was a new more up to date version), even luigi's mansion (which when you think about it would have been even better to start off the Wii.

Now all the awesome games from before are just sequels, with barely any great new IPs.

 

I don't honestly think there are many more then those you listed, and surely saying they're sequels sort of shows Nintendo are still very much making the same games they made in the GameCube days, and thus not forgetting the core?

 

Even then the Wii still has Excite Truck, Disaster: Day of Crisis and Endless ocean as new IP's (Along with all the Wii Fit / Wii Sports etc). Lest we not forget there are plenty of new IP's from third parties that simply didn't exsist on the GameCube, I'd like to see Nintendo make some more but as I said, I don't think we're going to be able to tell until 2008.

[AshMat]

I don't honestly think there are many more then those you listed, and surely saying they're sequels sort of shows Nintendo are still very much making the same games they made in the GameCube days, and thus not forgetting the core?

 

Even then the Wii still has Excite Truck, Disaster: Day of Crisis and Endless ocean as new IP's (Along with all the Wii Fit / Wii Sports etc). Lest we not forget there are plenty of new IP's from third parties that simply didn't exsist on the GameCube, I'd like to see Nintendo make some more but as I said, I don't think we're going to be able to tell until 2008.

 

It shows me shit all, besides that they're just making sequels.

 

Wii Fit and Sports are aimed at casuals. And Endless Ocean is about swimming around snapping fish.

[jammy2211]

It shows me shit all, besides that they're just making sequels.

 

Wii Fit and Sports are aimed at casuals. And Endless Ocean is about swimming around snapping fish.

 

I'm really not sure what people want anymore. Most people are complaining Nintendo arn't making the games that they used too, whereas you're complaining they are 0_o. Yet you still threw in some casual argument into whatever you're saying *shrug*.

 

If you want change, you could argue games like Super Mario Galaxy, Super Paper Mario and DK Jets have a big enough change in their gameplay mechanics, in the same way Metroid Prime did on the GameCube.

 

I would like to see new IP's and franchises on the Wii, but I really would prefer Nintendo stick to doing what they do best and the third parties fill this role. No More Heroes and Zack and Wiki are among the best doing this, but obviously you want things a different way.

 

Although I do think if Nitendo are going to make a line up as strong as this years (Metoird - Mario - Smash Bros - Mario Kart) ; They'll need some new franchises as Star Fox and F-Zero just don't cut it.

[AshMat]

I've already said i think they're forgetting core gamers, by not showing people nough of the good stuff.

[jammy2211]

I've already said i think they're forgetting core gamers, by not showing people nough of the good stuff.

 

Okay then.... God knows how you came to that conclusion but hey it's your opinion. I would imagine it'll change once again when we hit September and the end of the game drought, who knows.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Still not entirely sure where this whole "Nintendo is abandoning us omg" attitude is coming from. They have always been a family company. The NES was called the Famicon in Japan. Fami Computer. Nintendo are just going back to their roots, which is what fundamentally made them successful in the first place, which was to make gaming accessible to everyone.

 

In this respect, the Gamecube was probably the most Un-Nintendo Home Console. Sales also would reflect this.

[Pit-Jr]

I can picture an internal team pitching an idea for some kick ass, epic Wii game to Miyamoto and Iwata

 

Miyamoto: ''Does it have Mario in it?''

 

EAD: ''Well..no its a new IP''

 

Iwata: ''Does it mimic everyday life? Can we train people with it?''

 

EAD: ''Well no, its character based with a completely functioning storyline, voice acting (interrupted by laughter), online elements and a new graphic engine weve been working on. Heres a concept trailer we cooked up....''

 

Miyamoto: Hmmm...needs more Mario..

 

Iwata: ''And how many days will it take to make this...game?''

 

EAD: Well we were thinking more in terms of months/years..

 

Iwata: YOU'RE FIRED

[Fierce_LiNk]

That was neither funny nor particularly accurate.

[dannbrownn]

i have said it be fore and i will say it again:

 

Revolution is not just a console, it is a state of mind

 

What do i mean by that, take a look at Nintendo's change of image, how awesome does the wii look compared to the GC? The new Nintendo Magazine compared to the old one, wii.com, white game cases, the DS lite, nicole kidman.

[Zechs Merquise]

It's not a philosphy on gaming it's a business plan, as I stated in another thread:

 

This whole 'Nintendo are putting gameply first' is just naive talk. Nintendo left out HD for several reasons which all fitted what they saw as the best business plan.

 

I believe these reasons to be:

1) The expense for developers, by leaving out HD it makes it much cheaper to develop for hence bringing back developers to Nintendo home systems and encouraging new software ventures that would otherwise be seen as too risky due to development costs. This will lead to a far bigger games library, something which harmed both the N64 and GC.

2) The expense for consumers, by leaving out HD it makes the console much cheaper to produce and hence can be sold much cheaper whilst at the same time still making a profit (the only console that makes a profit on the unit is the Wii)

3) HD will not truly take off until a certain critical mass of the population has purchased an HDTV, until that critical mass has been reached it's pointless including it at huge expense when only a tiny proportion of those who buy the console can benefit from it.

 

So personally, I don't believe Nintendo didn't include super graphics because they wanted to teach us all that it's the gameplay that matters, but because it didn't fit their business plan - which ultimately is about making a lot of money, and that's something that their doing a lot better than either Sony's or Microsoft's gaming divisions.

 

If in the future HD becomes cheaper and the critical mass has taken up HDTVs so it is now the norm, Nintendo may well revise their business strategy.

 

-------------------

 

Nintendo have also embraced popular culture and new design, rather than packing their console and designing it like a standard piece of electronic hardware in black or silver they've gone for a coolwhite colour, chosen a catchy public firendly name in the vein of 'iPod' and embraced the public.

 

This isn't philosphy - it's business!

[tapedeck]

Let me start off by attempting to nail this argument about traditional games:

 

In a years time this argument about no "hardcore" games and casual games flooding the market will be totally void. It's only apparent now as developers were slow to adapt to the success of the Wii and Nintendo have a formula which attracts families/non-gamers. It's hardly suprising this is happening as the GC was a shambles for 3rd party developers and Nintendo had to learn lessons 'fast'.

We are getting remakes yes, (what's wrong with that business sense...NEW gamers on Wii afterall?) and we are getting sequels (always has been the bread and butter of developers). Granted it looks a little barron at the moment yet there will be so many projects in the works that will come at the end of this year and into next year. People should keep the faith.

 

Nintendo may be producing Wii fit alongside mario Kart, but which one will draw more developers AND consumers to the system? I don't know why people are complaining about titles like Wii fit. if you don't like it...Don't buy it and play Mario Kart/Smash Bros/Prime/Galaxy instead. Games which you will prefer by your own admission of wii fit.

 

Further philosophical ramblings:

 

As gamers we seem to be greedy. We play the title in a matter of days or weeks after maybe years of development and then we are seemingly dwelling on the titles shortcomings. We then tire of the game and start moaning where the next one is coming from. To me the VC is the saviour of games. Remember Paper Mario on the N64? Now it's on the lips of thousands of gamers again. I wish people would sometimes look at what they have infront of them and just experience that piece of software to its fullest. Like Wii Sports. People complain religiously about it and it's status on Wii. But it's absolutely the closest any form of electronic entertainment has come to the real thing. If my grandad can see this, why do so many gamers not even regard it as something special? Because we have been spoilt for choice, because we all think we are critics and making games is easy?

 

The philosophy of the Wii:

 

Seems to me that it's all about holding games close to our hearts again and not forgetting why we started to play in the first place. Interaction. Whether that's with others or on our own is the reason we game. We want to be the selfish warrior, the one who saves the day, scores the goal, shoots the bad guy. Selfish. But with Wii it seems much of gaming can become selfless again. And thus social (and acceptable). Wii is bigger than we all seem to realise.

[dazzybee]

Spot on tape deck, people on this board, well everywhere are so irratatingly shortsighted I feel embarassed for them. If people can't see that Wii will be home to 'hardcore' games then buy a 360 - which may I add had no AMAZING games for the first year and only just getting a handful now (IMHO), Wii had that at launch and will have double after its first year.

 

And also, can people stop being so fucking pretetntious saying they are a HARDCORE gamer and don't want to play games for the casuals like Wii Sports and Wii Fit - firstly, you sound so arrogant, secondly WHY are these only for the casuals? They're not, you don't like them fair enough, I deteste with a passion Grand Theft Auto, Gran Tourismo, I think Halo is over rated, Gears of War was a great sensoral experience but ultimately didnt excite me in the same way Zelda does, or resident Evil, or even, dare I say it, Wii Sports - damn! Does that mean I'm not a serious gamer?

 

As tapedeck says, this argument will be completely moot in a years time, it baffles me that people can't see it - look at the sales figures, look at the constant added support we're getting, look at what happened with the DS - the same WILL happen with Wii!

 

With Wii we will get EVERYTHING - the HARDCORE games, the CASUAL games, everything - why do people have a problem with that!?

[jammy2211]

The argument about Nintendo abandoning their core with the Wii is complete moot now anyway.

 

If you look at all the First-Party GameCube games which sold over 1 million copies, only 3 games don't have sequel annouces:

 

Luigi's Mansion - I can live without this one.

Pikmin 1 and 2 - a Sequel is not confirmed but it's going to happen, IGN have practically confirmed it.

Star Fox - Again it's going to happen sooner or later.

 

And when you consider we're comparing 5 years of GameCube library to a Wii line up which is going to last to first 1.5 years of it's life I think it's clear where Nintendo loyalties lie. It's not like we're getting all the Wii Fit / Brain training etc instead of core games, we're getting all our favourites along with the more casual stuff, who can complain with that? :/.