Is it racist to be anti-immigration?

[Balfron]

I'm very pleased, having just made my second ever post to my blog!

 

http://peterdouglasblog.blogspot.com/

 

Is it racist to be anti-immigration?

 

An article in the Telegraph by Jeff Randall the other day argues the case that “It’s not racist to worry about immigrationâ€. Net migration to the UK was 235,000 in the year to June 2005. As Britain’s population breaks through 60 million, a public debate is underway as to whether immigration is a good thing or not. Randall argues the debate is being stifled by accusations of racism against the anti-immigration lobby, and that it is not racist to be against immigration. While there may be valid arguments and important considerations against immigration, the basic premise of the article - that it is not racist to be against immigration - is I think wrong.

 

Racism is discrimination on the grounds of a person’s race, colour, ethnic background or cultural beliefs. Therefore, to say that British people are entitled to free education, healthcare or unemployment benefits but foreign people are not is in fact racist. I’m not saying that the entire anti-immigration lobby are Nazis, or that BNP voters should be locked up in jail, but the view that British people are entitled to things foreign people are not entitled to is racist.

 

The rhetoric of the Telegraph article is typical of anti-immigration language and is worrying. Saying “we are already over-crowdedâ€, “they are changing our society†and asking if this is “what we want for our grandchildren?†hints at a ‘Britain for the British’ attitude. I appreciate that journalists do need to pander to their readers somewhat, (perhaps that is the advantage of blogging), but what makes Randall think his article is only being read by ‘British’ people?

 

Again, the suggestion that only British people are entitled to services made in Britain is, regardless of whether it is right or wrong, racist. Randall, the author of the Telegraph article, worries that with immigration “Energy consumption would soar.†Energy consumption would not actually soar. People consume energy wherever they live. What Randall means is energy consumption in Britain would rise. He seems to think that Britain is more important than countries people are migrating from. Again, this is racism. The argument seems especially silly considering the global environmental consequences of pollution. The only way energy consumption would rise is if people consume more energy in Britain than they would in their country of birth. Surely Randall is not suggesting we (and by ‘we’ I mean those of us able to afford time on a computer) must force people to have a lower standard of living than we do?

 

National boundaries do not actually exist. There isn’t really a squiggly yellow line separating France and Belgium, or USA and Canada. People born on one side of the imaginary line are entitled to exactly the same rights as people born on the other side, and to deny people born on the other side their rights is racist and wrong.

 

Being Christian, I think a good thing to do in any situation is to ask what Jesus would do. Non-Christians can do this too. Can you really imagine Jesus refusing to heal someone based on where he was born or the colour of his skin? That’s what the anti-immigration lobby wants to do.

 

 

Questions to ask

 

* Is it ok to be racist?

* Does having more immigrants in a country decrease the home population’s standard of living?

* Can we demand British people lower their standard of living by having an increased number of immigrants in the country?

* At what stage does an immigrant become a native?

* Can a first generation immigrant ever perfectly integrate?

[The Bard]

Yes, it is. Foreigners have as much right to be here as people who are born here. After all, it's just a fucking piece of land.

[Ginger_Chris]

Immigration has nothing to do with racism, Its an economics problem. Will an immigrant contribute more to the economy than they take. If they they will, let them in. If they are a drain on the economy, why bother? People who living in the country pay taxes, which they hope will spent on helping them. Why should they pay so someone can come into the country? Yes there are people already in the country, its wrong to force someone from their home, it's not wrong to say sorry your not allowed in if they aren't going to contribute.

 

Immigration in the press gets a lot of bad publicity, but there a more types of immigration that just asylum etc. We get a large proportion of nurses from Canada, doctors and scientists from Indian and china, engineers and economists from Japan etc. These are highly skilled professionals, who will contribute to the long term stability of the economy. I don't think anyone has a problem letting skilled people in. Anyone who comes to England to get a job and contribute to the community is a positive gain. The only fact that turns up in the media with this type of immigration is when communities don't mix or integrate with the pre-existing societies (see lots of articles about education and religion, we try and separate Christianity and education as much as possible because they are separate issues, why should we not dot he same with other religions?).

 

Personally I don't see why we should really accept asylum seekers into the country, unless they have a close relative already in the country. If I were running for my life, I'd get to the first 'free' country, and then if i had close family somewhere try and get there. I'm sorry but someone who has travelled though France, Germany, Poland, Italy and many other countries couldn't have tried to get into any of those? No, a large number of people come to England because of large government hand outs and lax policy.

 

Personally I think we should adopt the approach of Australia, If you don't have a profession they want, or won't contribute significantly to the country, you aren't getting in. Sorry. No one ever seems to complain about their policy.

[Blackfox]

 

Questions to ask

 

* Is it ok to be racist?

* Does having more immigrants in a country decrease the home population’s standard of living?

* Can we demand British people lower their standard of living by having an increased number of immigrants in the country?

* At what stage does an immigrant become a native?

* Can a first generation immigrant ever perfectly integrate?

 

1) No, racism is wrong. It ruins people's lives, its horrible.

2) This depends, if you add immigrants to an at-capacity or over-subscribed system then yeah, the standard of living would inevatably drop. However, if a system has capacity for extra people, then it wont - in fact it'll be ensuring that the money ollocated to it is used to its full potential.

3) Personally, no. You're never going to tell people to except less to let an immigrants in. Whether they are reducing standards is open to debate though, I don't know the facts.

4+5) You could probably argue for hours about this. I guess when they live live a "normal Brit" (eventhough there is no "normal Brit" as we're all products of immigration ). I reckon they could do - its happened in the past, and there's no reason for it not to happen now.

 

I don't think its racist to be anti-immigration if you believe that immigration would be to the degradation of the economy, health systems, etc. That's just ensuring your tax money is being spent on the people its intended for. However, if you argued that immigration should be stopped to stop an influx of Africans (for example), then that's racist and wrong.

 

Imo, the country does need to tighten up immigration. I feel that people who offer nothing to the country should be let into it, just like the Australian immigration laws do. Saying that, I'd happily kick out a white Brit who doesn't want to put anything into the country too.. I also feel that immigrants should try to adhere to British ways of life, if possible. Other countries expect it, so should we.

[Dan_Dare]

If you have a legitimate reason (economics etc) then no, it isn't.

 

urrrr, fuck it. Tired. Night...

[Shino]

Pretty much everything has been said, I guess if you expect the same rules to be applied to everyone, immigrant or not, and said immigrant doesn't fit in those rules, than it doesn't make you a racist.

[BlueStar]

Depends what you mean by "anti-immigration" - You don't want anyone to be able to come to the country, even if they're contributing to the economy, paying taxes and doing jobs that natives won't/can't do? You want existing immigrants and their offspring deported?

 

If the question is "If you have any concerns about immigration does it always mean you're racist" then the answer is no. A better question would be "Is immigration used by some as a smokescreen for racism", to which the answer would be yes.

[mike-zim]

I really hate the Race thing. Everyone in this country are so scared of offending other races that the "native" people are the ones who are having racism and discrimination thrown at them.

 

Loads of people are moving into Brittain (not saying that is bad just pointing it out) as a result there are alot of "brits" moving out. Now i will take spain as an example, there are massive brittish communities in spain and look what is happening. The locals rae complaining because the brits are living as brits. No one ever call that racism. But if i complained about an Asian guy living as an Asian in brittain i would be called a racist. My question is what is the difference?

 

To answer the question it is No anti-immigration is not racism. If the number of immigrants are allowed to enter the country as at the current rate then there will be a serious population issue soon. When that happens what do you think the out come will be. Serious racial tension. As there will be less space people will start to blame immigrants for the problems in the country (incorrectly i might add) and there will be trouble.

 

That is my take on things any way. Call me what you will!!

[BlueStar]

I have to day, I do always find it funny that the people who complain the loudest about people coming to the UK and not being able to speak the language properly or integrate tend to be the same ones that move to spain, make no effort to speak Spanish and live in English communities with english pubs with sky tv

 

As long as people coming to the country work in jobs which either we have a skills shortage in or jobs which most brits would rather sit on the dole than do, it's a benefit to the county.

 

I also don't think that people incorrectly blaming immigrants for something is any kind of argument against immigration either.

[KKOB]

I really hate the Race thing. Everyone in this country are so scared of offending other races that the "native" people are the ones who are having racism and discrimination thrown at them.

 

Loads of people are moving into Brittain (not saying that is bad just pointing it out) as a result there are alot of "brits" moving out. Now i will take spain as an example, there are massive brittish communities in spain and look what is happening. The locals rae complaining because the brits are living as brits. No one ever call that racism. But if i complained about an Asian guy living as an Asian in brittain i would be called a racist. My question is what is the difference?

 

To answer the question it is No anti-immigration is not racism. If the number of immigrants are allowed to enter the country as at the current rate then there will be a serious population issue soon. When that happens what do you think the out come will be. Serious racial tension. As there will be less space people will start to blame immigrants for the problems in the country (incorrectly i might add) and there will be trouble.

 

That is my take on things any way. Call me what you will!!

 

I totally agree with you. The UK is WAAAAAAY too PC and scared of being branded racist. Most of the the time people are too scared to speak out against what they see is happening incase they get the racist card thrown at them and they end up the ones in trouble. I've experienced racism from the Asian community so am seriously fucked off with the governments, and the polices attitude to it.

 

I would say this country needs immigration but needs it on a scale of what Australia have, only except few legitimate refugees and people who are needed by the country to fill gaps in their employment system-such as say plumbers and electricians over here. As the population increases and the education of the nation does so as well, then more people will be trying for bigger jobs, not going for the more menial jobs with a comparatively low prestige value.

 

Immigration has always been important to this country. But i think questions need to be asked when unemployment rates start increasing with out fear of being called racist. I mean how can this country be racist against minorities when it's largest metropolitan borough/city will soon be the first city in the world where a national minority is larger than the national majority.

 

Basically, the government needs a slap to changes it's views, so that it doesn't tip toe around these issues and does what it believes is right for it and the people who already live here.

[BlueStar]

I'm sorry, but I think people are more scared of being branded PC than being branded racist. Recently that accusation's thrown around more than the latter and it seems to have lost all meaning (If it ever had any meaning in the first place - the fact that some people find political correctness offensive means that being PC can actually be being Un-PC so it sort of self implodes.)

 

Which city is this where a minority is going to be bigger than a majority for the first time in the world? (In fact, which universe is this where a minority can be bigger than a majority?)

 

Are there no cities in America where there are more people of european/african origin than Native Americans?

[Mikey]

We should only let people in this country as long as they have special skills, like being a surgeon. I don't see any advantage of letting all sorts in to be "multicultural".

 

Call me a racist if you want, I can't say I care.

[Jon]

Being against immigration in no way makes you racist. At the end of the day, when it becomes hard to get a job because someone from Poland has it, you need to start asking serious questions.

[BlueStar]

More than we need surgeons we need people like the poles who come over and do the jobs that, sadly, British people are too lazy to do. Shame we can't ship the dole merchants back over there as well. If Brits were willing to do these type of jobs, there'd be no job market for eastern european migrants and they'd stop coming of their own accord. That would be the easiest way to stop immigration. A simple, but unpopular fact.

[Mikey]

One thing that annoys me is that this country is supposed to be multicultural, yet every time I see minorities, they ALWAYS stick to their own kind. What's the point in being multicultural, if every one is gonna stick to their own kind anyway?? Pointless.

[KKOB]

Which city is this where a minority is going to be bigger than a majority for the first time in the world? (In fact, which universe is this where a minority can be bigger than a majority?)

 

Birmingham, and this universe- note my wording on national majority etc.

 

Also immigration has traditionally been beneficial to our country but it's time to be a little stricter on what we want and need in this country. See Australia for more details.

[Mikey]

Birmingham, and this universe- note my wording on national majority etc.

 

Also immigration has traditionally been beneficial to our country but it's time to be a little stricter on what we want and need in this country. See Australia for more details.

 

Exactly, immigration is fine to a controlled degree.

[BlueStar]

I agree there should be more integration - the way such a divide occurs, however, is a two way thing. It requires both ethnic minorities to move into an area, and the indigenous population to also move OUT of that area also with the aim of being with more of their 'own kind'. That's the only was it can happen.

[KKOB]

More than we need surgeons we need people like the poles who come over and do the jobs that, sadly, British people are too lazy to do. Shame we can't ship the dole merchants back over there as well. If Brits were willing to do these type of jobs, there'd be no job market for eastern european migrants and they'd stop coming of their own accord. That would be the easiest way to stop immigration. A simple, but unpopular fact.

 

It's take longer to change the belief that the UK is where to go to get a job etc than when the market is saturated. You need to know when is enough to prevent your own natives from being out of work, which would then, as suggested above, trigger racial tensions etc. Kind reminds me of how the germans viewed the jews during and before the war broke out. They were accused of having all the money due to a high unemployment rate triggering racial tensions-i don't know too much about history though . . .

[BlueStar]

Birmingham, and this universe- note my wording on national majority etc.

 

So it's the first place in the world, Native Americans are still the majority in all towns in the USA? What do you count as not being 'native' or part of the national majority by the way? The children of immigrants as well? Non-white people? Would a white person with polish/south african/american grandparents who spoke with a cockney accent and played darts in the pub count? What about an asian guy whos grandparents came to England?

 

I think the whole thing's blown out of proportion to be honest, people forget that Britain is still massively, massively white, around 92% if I remember correctly. If you listen to the chicken little types on forums and blogs you'd think it was a 50-50 split.

[Cube]

* Is it ok to be racist?

 

Abusive racism is wrong (i.e. picking on someone just becasue they are a different colour). Using "racist" comments I fail to see how it's any different to calling somoene names (wrong, but fine in friendly situations). People who act OTT from getting called "nerd" don't get anywhere near as much sympathy as thost who act OTT from somone using a descriptive word in the same sentence as an insult.

 

 

It's not racist to be anti-immigration. That type of thing actually affects you, and therefore it's not wrong to like or dislike it.

[Mikey]

Abusive racism is wrong (i.e. picking on someone just becasue they are a different colour). Using "racist" comments I fail to see how it's any different to calling somoene names (wrong, but fine in friendly situations). People who act OTT from getting called "nerd" don't get anywhere near as much sympathy as thost who act OTT from somone using a descriptive word in the same sentence as an insult.

 

 

It's not racist to be anti-immigration. That type of thing actually affects you, and therefore it's not wrong to like or dislike it.

 

 

Calling some one a rag head or a nigger is no worse than calling someone an asshole. The intention is exactly the same.

[KKOB]

So it's the first place in the world, Native Americans are still the majority in all towns in the USA? What do you count as not being 'native' or part of the national majority by the way? The children of immigrants as well? Non-white people? Would a white person with polish/south african/american grandparents who spoke with a cockney accent and played darts in the pub count? What about an asian guy whos grandparents came to England?

 

I think the whole thing's blown out of proportion to be honest, people forget that Britain is still massively, massively white, around 92% if I remember correctly. If you listen to the chicken little types on forums and blogs you'd think it was a 50-50 split.

 

It's down to ethnic origin. And don't ask me all these questions, it's not my statement but one my psychology teacher said and based on the current ethnic proportion numbers here it seems to be on track to be correct.

 

And blown out of proportion? lol that 92% figure or whatever is utter bollocks round these parts (i'm in Birmingham atm).

 

I'm not saying it's a bad thing to have a large minority group but it does speak volumes about how much the UK has relied and controlled immigration to limit and control the countries growth. I just think that by keeping its current more open door policy than what say australia has is not the way to go in the future.

[conzer16]

Ireland is becoming and increasingly multicultural society which in my opnion is only a good thing.

 

Poles, Brazilians, Chinese, Latvians and Estonians sre only a small sample of the nationalities who now call Ireland home.

 

Ireland has always been a very close minded country and with an influx of immigrants we're slowly eroding that close mindedness.

 

These immigrants are driving the construction industy in this country and have done so for the last number of years - they are doing very well out of it and therefore so is Ireland.

 

Racism is not acceptable to me, but I think that immigration and racism will go hand in hand wherever you are. There is something quite unnerving see many many foreigners (who mightn't speak good english or any!) take all the employment in an area leaving natives without.

 

Ireland needs immigrants - about 1 in every 100 people here is an immigrant and we need more - we need them to keep our economy afloat and there are the jobs here for them.

 

Come to Ireland! We'll have a pint of plain and over it discuss the weather in Riga, the politics of Warsaw and the beaches in Rio

[BlueStar]

But does, say, someone like Ian Wright count as a 'national minority' even though his nationality is british simply because his ethnic origin is different to the majority of other people from his nation?

 

This idea that a minority is going to be a majority in Birmingham, does this mean people from one country, one race, or all races apart from white British lumped together? I know it's not your argument, but considering you're using it you don't seem to know much about it, that's all.