Manhunt 2

[Demuwan]

And whilst everyone is seeing fit to have a go, I'll point out now that when I purchased my gamecube on day of release I got two games with it, Rogue Squadron and Wave Race, both of which look a damn sight better than most Wii games.

 

I'm not complaining that Wii games don't look like PS3 or 360 games, but it is worrying that they don;t even look like GC games in many cases.

 

Also, all this 'The Wii is a GC1.5' contradicts the whole argument that people are 'just learning the Wii's capabilities' as if the Wii was a GC on steroids why the hell can't developers even get GC graphics out of it.

 

Couldn't have said it better.

[DCK]

And whilst everyone is seeing fit to have a go, I'll point out now that when I purchased my gamecube on day of release I got two games with it, Rogue Squadron and Wave Race, both of which look a damn sight better than most Wii games.

 

I'm not complaining that Wii games don't look like PS3 or 360 games, but it is worrying that they don;t even look like GC games in many cases.

 

Also, all this 'The Wii is a GC1.5' contradicts the whole argument that people are 'just learning the Wii's capabilities' as if the Wii was a GC on steroids why the hell can't developers even get GC graphics out of it.

Clearly that's not the problem of the Wii lacking the power to do it. Those titles you speak of haven't been serious attempts at Wii games. Also, the fact that you use Wave Race as an example means that you don't really have an eye for graphics improvement; the only thing pretty in Wave Race is the water - the rest of the game is really average.

 

There aren't many to-be-released games that look sub-par to GameCube games except from that Duck Hunt game as far as I am aware, so things are changing.

 

Note that GC1.5 is not a good way to describe the Wii. First of all, the Wii is likely to be a bit more powerful than that, and secondly the real power the Wii has over the GameCube is in new things added to the Wii. Without going into technical details, the hardware of the Wii is indeed theoretically a 50% power boost over the GameCube, but that alone usually doesn't mean a noticeable increase in graphics. The trick is that Nintendo has added some new stuff upgrade the Wii over the GameCube - new features allow it to have sharper textures and more capacity to process special effects like lightning and the sorts, among other things. Judging by developers interviews however, it seems that the documentation of this new stuff is lacking, and it takes time for developers to figure out how it works themselves.

 

Basically, if the Wii was a GameCube x 1.5 the graphics would have made no signifcant leap at all. The thing is, that with the documentation the developers seem to have, all they got is a GameCube x 1.5, hence the average graphics. Once developers get introduced to the extra stuff, we should see more Mario Galaxies.

[James McGeachie]

No, for implying we are wrong and the Wii is weaker than an Xbox. Check out the Mario Galaxy screen I posted.

 

And check out this Doom 3 screen I'm posting, wooh!

 

 

Not that this means anything but hey if you're going down the post a single screenshot path I may as well too.

 

I don't see any reason however that Mario Galaxy couldn't be done on the Xbox (even if they had to retool some sections of the game to fit the different hardware of course). In fact, I don't see a whole lot that suggests it couldn't be done on the Gamecube if it pushed the system to a Resident Evil 4 extent. I mean look at the final boss fight in Sunshine to see what can be done if you're only rendering a small amount at a time as opposed to huge land based levels.

 

Mario Galaxy is a good looking game and my most anticipated title but I'm not going to be unrealistic about it.

[Demuwan]

 

I don't see any reason however that Mario Galaxy couldn't be done on the Xbox (even if they had to retool some sections of the game to fit the different hardware of course). In fact, I don't see a whole lot that suggests it couldn't be done on the Gamecube if it pushed the system to a Resident Evil 4 extent. I mean look at the final boss fight in Sunshine to see what can be done if you're only rendering a small amount at a time as opposed to huge land based levels.

 

Mario Galaxy is a good looking game and my most anticipated title but I'm not going to be unrealistic about it.

 

 

I disagree with the fact that Galaxy could run effectively on Xbox. The reason that Wii game's graphics have suffered has very little to do with the amount of power it has and more to do with a lack of patience, disregard of quality and maybe even the proficiency of the developer(not likely). Also the fact that Wii has sold so well means that everyone wants to get a piece of the pie, irrespective of quality.

 

No doubt this is being rectified though as many developers are taking heed and trying not to rush their games, so in the words of Take That "Have a little patiiiiiieeeeeence" Cheesy or What!

[Teppo Holmqvist]

In fact, I don't see a whole lot that suggests it couldn't be done on the Gamecube if it pushed the system to a Resident Evil 4 extent.

 

Shaders, pretty much. Gamecube couldn't run anything with that kind of lightning effects without taking serious hit on framerate. Neither could Xbox.

[James McGeachie]

So you honestly think the lighting in Mario Galaxy is far more technically advanced than that of games like Doom 3 and Chaos theory? Also, wouldn't you say Resident Evil 4 had pretty impressive lighting, especially in areas where lightning was striking?

 

I know perhaps it's not the same type of lighting but I'd rather not go into the technical details, just that looks wise I don't really see the lighting in Mario Galaxy being more graphically impressive than in these other titles and these other games were rendering areas with a large amount of geometric detail, not empty space with small objects littered between.

[The Bard]

I disagree with the fact that Galaxy could run effectively on Xbox.

 

You're gonna disagree with a fact? That's not a little stupid

[Demuwan]

 

You're gonna disagree with a fact? That's not a little stupid

 

Dash Dot Dash

[flameboy]

I don't really see the lighting in Mario Galaxy being more graphically impressive than in these other titles and these other games were rendering areas with a large amount of geometric detail, not empty space with small objects littered between.

 

How do you know that the "space" in Mario Galaxy is not geometrically detailed, in the way everything reacts to each other, whether planets are affected by gravitational pulls or something?

 

Personally I do not think Mario Galaxy could have been done on the cube, i think some of the shots, especially the lava level, some of the other effects look above the cube...

[Hellfire]

Yeah, you're right that developers are not living up to the task, but it's mainly because they started their projects with the GC dev kit. Also, it's cheaper and easier to use old engines, since Wii supports them and 360 and PS3 don't. I suppose we'll see better looking games, we are already starting to, but this also makes developers make more Wii games, even if they are crappy PS2 ports, they take shelf space, which is always good.

[mcj metroid]

man i didn't buy a wii for graphics. i don't care as long as it doesn't look like far cry all the time.

[pedrocasilva]

And whilst everyone is seeing fit to have a go, I'll point out now that when I purchased my gamecube on day of release I got two games with it, Rogue Squadron and Wave Race, both of which look a damn sight better than most Wii games.

 

I'm not complaining that Wii games don't look like PS3 or 360 games, but it is worrying that they don;t even look like GC games in many cases.

 

Also, all this 'The Wii is a GC1.5' contradicts the whole argument that people are 'just learning the Wii's capabilities' as if the Wii was a GC on steroids why the hell can't developers even get GC graphics out of it.

Factor 5 isn't around anymore.

 

Developers who just ported PS2 games through 5 years don't know the architecture, they simply know how to make them run. So yeah we have a lot of developers who have no knowledge of hoe the hardware works despite having worked with it.

 

Look at Capcom and Nintendo the companies who are still here and exploited the cube more and their results. Not that noticeable yet, I'll agree, but it's certainly a improvement over gamecube. The "3 times more powerful" is real, and just imagine what you could do with... say... metroid and that.

 

GC with as much RAM as Xbox is already as good or better in some situations (and slightly inferior in others), but Wii is more than that.

And check out this Doom 3 screen I'm posting, wooh!

 

 

Not that this means anything but hey if you're going down the post a single screenshot path I may as well too.

 

I don't see any reason however that Mario Galaxy couldn't be done on the Xbox (even if they had to retool some sections of the game to fit the different hardware of course). In fact, I don't see a whole lot that suggests it couldn't be done on the Gamecube if it pushed the system to a Resident Evil 4 extent. I mean look at the final boss fight in Sunshine to see what can be done if you're only rendering a small amount at a time as opposed to huge land based levels.

 

Mario Galaxy is a good looking game and my most anticipated title but I'm not going to be unrealistic about it.

I know Doom 3 process and development very well, DOOM 3 depends on texture overlays, bumps and such so they had to use the extra polygon trick to render twice as much textures per passage, 8 textures per passage in all, something GC does natively; by doing so Xbox is limited to 10 million polygons per second (about the ammount DOOM3 pushes) whereas it could go at 15 million polygons at other situations (just to show the kind of hit the extra polygon trick means), there's a lot of GC games who render more polygons than that (and even above 15 million polygons though.

 

As for textures... not possible, Doom 3 on GC would have lack of RAM, so texture detail would have to be cut A LOT (as well as bump map quality) and since Xbox was pretty similar to a PC porting DOOM3 was not that hard, it would be harder to do for Wii, simply because the architecture is actually very diferent, it would be just as easy to do from ground, but again... you'd go against those RAM limits I mentioned.

 

That's a RAM limitation on GC though, one that isn't present on Wii, and if GC had RAM it would be more efficient doing that stuff since it had advantage in layer passes.

 

Then we have disc space, let's just say 1,5 GB is not that confortable for a texture centric game like DOOM (even if the RAM limitations weren't there)

 

But... apart from textures, GC could do most of that easily. providing you'd rewrite all the shaders into the TEV pipelines.

So you honestly think the lighting in Mario Galaxy is far more technically advanced than that of games like Doom 3 and Chaos theory? Also, wouldn't you say Resident Evil 4 had pretty impressive lighting, especially in areas where lightning was striking?

 

I know perhaps it's not the same type of lighting but I'd rather not go into the technical details, just that looks wise I don't really see the lighting in Mario Galaxy being more graphically impressive than in these other titles and these other games were rendering areas with a large amount of geometric detail, not empty space with small objects littered between.

Like said before... lightning in DOOM3 and Chaos Theory is not that great. it's good but in Splinter Cell case it's mostly pre-lit, since you had more RAM they did those as texture passes and applied them, if you somehow changed the light source they wouldn't change, they're not real-time.

 

Doom 3 was actually creative with textures and they even called their stencil shadows the "Carmack's Reverse" so I'm not that documented talking about that... I believe the shadows from the PC version were very toned down for Xbox though. (I don't see any transparencies in the xbox screenshot you posted, for example)

 

That said Mario Galaxy is a hard to judge game, but yeah it looks better to me, question is what they have on-screen. GC had more fillrate than Xbox though, just as Wii does.

 

RE4 and RS3 (on foot missions) on GC did something more impressive than that; they where the only last gen games to feature Light Scattering advanced shaders (legend says Factor 5 actually passed the tech on paper to Capcom and Capcom improved it)

[Slaggis]

 

xbox game my arse

[DCK]

Not that this means anything but hey if you're going down the post a single screenshot path I may as well too.

yeah, well done...

 

The Xbox had some power in it, and Doom 3 was very good, but in all honesty it wasn't as good as Mario Galaxy. The console version was less impressive than the PC version and the screenshot paints a better picture than the game running in motion... Galaxy actually looks better than the screenies in motion.

 

I was referring to the Mario Galaxy screenshot to show that the Wii is more technically advanced than the GameCube, which in its turn was almost exactly on par with the Xbox. If it could really be done on GameCube, then developers had 5 years to do it, but didn't. Twilight Princess would've looked much better if that amount of power was available from just a Cube.

 

Anyway, I don't see why you're even doubting this. You know your tech - even considering the bare minimum of what we know of the Wii you should realise that the Wii is more powerful than the Xbox any way you look at it.

 

Let's end this discussion, though, because it turns the same every time we have it.

[The Bard]

Doom 3 Looked great, but Mario Galaxy seriously looks much better in motion.

[Zechs Merquise]

Yeah, you're right that developers are not living up to the task, but it's mainly because they started their projects with the GC dev kit. Also, it's cheaper and easier to use old engines, since Wii supports them and 360 and PS3 don't. I suppose we'll see better looking games, we are already starting to, but this also makes developers make more Wii games, even if they are crappy PS2 ports, they take shelf space, which is always good.

 

Look, if the devs started with GC dev kits why do titles not look as good as many GC launch titles? It's appalling.

[Owen]

Most wii games look pretty poor and worse then alot of Gamecube games.

 

Although some- Metroid, Brawl and Galaxy look better.

 

Although, we all knew this before wii was released, as playability was going to take over graphical power.

[DCK]

Look, if the devs started with GC dev kits why do titles not look as good as many GC launch titles? It's appalling.

Because they never tried. A GameCube devkit doesn't mean your game automatically looks like 'a GameCube game' (whatever that means) - because the developers knew that they didn't know what would be acceptable on Wii, and knew that the "graphics don't matter" so never tried. There are a lot of crap looking games on GameCube simply because the developer never tried, and so there are a lot on Wii, too. Even more even, because loads of publishers suddenly decided they needed a game on Wii and ported crap.

[aenaos]

IGN Manhunt 2 Wii Preview + Wii Screens!

 

"Consider for one moment that in Manhunt 2 you can, Wii remote and nunchuk in hands, use a pair of pliers to clamp onto an enemy's testicles and literally tear them from his body in a bloody display; and if that weren't enough, you'll take one of the poor victim's vertebrae along with his manhood. Or, if you'd prefer, you can use a saw blade and cut upward into a foe's groin and buttocks, motioning forward and backward with the Wii remote as you go. "Lawyer" Jack Thompson has found his holy grail. But believe it or not, there is much more to Manhunt 2 than mutilation and mayhem. This is a game that begins with the subject of psychosis."

 

-------------

 

Manhunt 2 in Wii could be described as Splatter Cell because it is quite obviously filled to the brim with gore, but as you use the nunchuk's analog stick to control Danny through the levels you will also be doing your share of sneaking, Sam Fisher style. You will hide in the shadows and creep up behind enemies and the game rewards you for your stealthy ambitions with greater levels of violence. For example, it is entirely possible to run directly up to an enemy and throw punches his way, or even use one of your many weapons to dispose of him in some bloody fashion. However, these face-to-face kills will rarely be as dramatic or as entertaining - whether you gauge entertainment by the satisfaction of using stealth or by the level of blood and chunks that result - as a sneak attack. There's a whole mechanic built around it, in fact, and this is one of the areas that the Wii version of the title is much improved over the PS2 one.

 

 

As Danny creeps toward and draws ever closer to an enemy, the anti-hero will raise his hand to let you know that you can go into an attack. You trigger executions by holding down the A button as you sneak closer and closer to your foe. There are three levels to every execution, as determined by how long you hold the A button down before you begin an attack. An on-screen execution graphic will change colors from white, which is described as hasty; to yellow, which is violent; and finally to red, which results in gruesome kills. In the PS2 version of the game, you merely hit a button to trigger the whole animation, which is far less engaging. On Wii, you act out the execution with a series of gestures timed to on-screen cues. If you're cutting into a man's skull with a saw, which you sometimes do, you might have to make a forward/backward motion with the Wii remote, hit the B trigger to a visual cue, and then gesture quickly upward with both controllers to put the finishing touches on the attack. It's much more immersive both because motion-based controls are inherently so and also because you're stringing together these attacks in the Wii build, while they are canned animation sequences in the PS2 one.

 

Now multiply these disgusting special attacks by at least 30, as there are -- bare minimum -- that many more weapons to use in Manhunt 2, all with brand new and completely gross executions. There are knives, swords, saws, hammers, syringes, pens, sledgehammers, pickaxes, and more. You'll be stabbing people in the head, in their neck, slicing into their gut, up their chest, and so on. Jamming a pen into an unsuspecting hunter's neck and watching the brood spray is disturbing, but we'll admit it - this is a videogame and not reality, after all - kind of satisfying, too. Exclusive to the Wii version of Manhunt 2 are three new weapons, including the razor, mace and a broken bottle. There are all sorts of guns, from hand weapons to shotguns, which blow entire holes through the heads of enemies. On Wii, you simply hold the C button to go into aiming mode, where you'll have pixel-perfect accuracy with the Wii remote; then you tap B-trigger to fire. (You can cycle between different gun and melee weapons at any time by press down on the D-pad.) You can even cut off a person's head and wear it - yes, wear it - on your belt buckle; it dangles around as you run through the environments and you can hurl it at foes or toss it into hallways as a distraction device.

 

http://wii.ign.com/articles/792/792012p1.html

 

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158647

 

 

[Demuwan]

IGN Manhunt 2 Wii Preview + Wii Screens!

 

"Consider for one moment that in Manhunt 2 you can, Wii remote and nunchuk in hands, use a pair of pliers to clamp onto an enemy's testicles and literally tear them from his body in a bloody display; and if that weren't enough, you'll take one of the poor victim's vertebrae along with his manhood. Or, if you'd prefer, you can use a saw blade and cut upward into a foe's groin and buttocks, motioning forward and backward with the Wii remote as you go. "Lawyer" Jack Thompson has found his holy grail. But believe it or not, there is much more to Manhunt 2 than mutilation and mayhem. This is a game that begins with the subject of psychosis."

 

-------------

 

Manhunt 2 in Wii could be described as Splatter Cell because it is quite obviously filled to the brim with gore, but as you use the nunchuk's analog stick to control Danny through the levels you will also be doing your share of sneaking, Sam Fisher style. You will hide in the shadows and creep up behind enemies and the game rewards you for your stealthy ambitions with greater levels of violence. For example, it is entirely possible to run directly up to an enemy and throw punches his way, or even use one of your many weapons to dispose of him in some bloody fashion. However, these face-to-face kills will rarely be as dramatic or as entertaining - whether you gauge entertainment by the satisfaction of using stealth or by the level of blood and chunks that result - as a sneak attack. There's a whole mechanic built around it, in fact, and this is one of the areas that the Wii version of the title is much improved over the PS2 one.

 

 

As Danny creeps toward and draws ever closer to an enemy, the anti-hero will raise his hand to let you know that you can go into an attack. You trigger executions by holding down the A button as you sneak closer and closer to your foe. There are three levels to every execution, as determined by how long you hold the A button down before you begin an attack. An on-screen execution graphic will change colors from white, which is described as hasty; to yellow, which is violent; and finally to red, which results in gruesome kills. In the PS2 version of the game, you merely hit a button to trigger the whole animation, which is far less engaging. On Wii, you act out the execution with a series of gestures timed to on-screen cues. If you're cutting into a man's skull with a saw, which you sometimes do, you might have to make a forward/backward motion with the Wii remote, hit the B trigger to a visual cue, and then gesture quickly upward with both controllers to put the finishing touches on the attack. It's much more immersive both because motion-based controls are inherently so and also because you're stringing together these attacks in the Wii build, while they are canned animation sequences in the PS2 one.

 

Now multiply these disgusting special attacks by at least 30, as there are -- bare minimum -- that many more weapons to use in Manhunt 2, all with brand new and completely gross executions. There are knives, swords, saws, hammers, syringes, pens, sledgehammers, pickaxes, and more. You'll be stabbing people in the head, in their neck, slicing into their gut, up their chest, and so on. Jamming a pen into an unsuspecting hunter's neck and watching the brood spray is disturbing, but we'll admit it - this is a videogame and not reality, after all - kind of satisfying, too. Exclusive to the Wii version of Manhunt 2 are three new weapons, including the razor, mace and a broken bottle. There are all sorts of guns, from hand weapons to shotguns, which blow entire holes through the heads of enemies. On Wii, you simply hold the C button to go into aiming mode, where you'll have pixel-perfect accuracy with the Wii remote; then you tap B-trigger to fire. (You can cycle between different gun and melee weapons at any time by press down on the D-pad.) You can even cut off a person's head and wear it - yes, wear it - on your belt buckle; it dangles around as you run through the environments and you can hurl it at foes or toss it into hallways as a distraction device.

 

http://wii.ign.com/articles/792/792012p1.html

 

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158647

 

 

 

 

Just read it and it looks great tbh. Not my kind of game, but I'll stay open-minded and if it encorages more 'mature' titles on the Wii well, im all for it!

 

Also Notable graphical improvements are always welcome.

 

[The Peeps]

Why are you posting Manhunt stuff in the wii vs gc topic?

 

[aenaos]

Why are you posting Manhunt stuff in the wii vs gc topic?

 

 

 

LOL yes I think I have to apologise for the off topic!

[Demuwan]

Why are you posting Manhunt stuff in the wii vs gc topic?

 

 

I see what you did there:heh:

[Owen]

That looks sick...in both ways...sick as in great and sick as in disgusting, people!

 

Oh Rockstar and your demented, disgusting, minds! Praise be!

[DCK]

This is totally not my kind of game. As long as people are happy with it, though