K-project

That's the best definition yet that I've read. It doesn't matter what console you have, you still find a casual and hardcore audience. I work with a bloke who has a 360. Big, big gamer, but I was stunned to hear of his tip for spotting a good game. "The best way you can tell is checking the back of the box. You can see the graphics, and usually tell whether it's any good or not". Really? A quick look at the back of the box? This might have been OK, but he then started telling me how I should avoid the new Prince of Persia game, because "there are big black outlines on the graphics". I said firstly, I can't get it on the Wii, and secondly, it just happens to look absolutely gorgeous actually. I had to tell him about cel-shading and Okami etc, but he wasn't interested in that. If a game doesn't look like Gears of War (ie. brown, grey and filled with death, war and gore), he didn't care for it. Is that a hardcore gamer? I would say not really, but by default he spends hours playing 360 shooters, and that seems to be the definition most go on these days. A hardcore gamer used to be someone who played lots of different types of games, but it seems if you spend all your life shooting things in Xbox 360 games you are "teh hardcorez". I'm fed up of the fake debate around the Wii and it's status as a hardcore games machine. It's a load of crap. I'm sick of everyone who has a 360 offering their extremely boring and oft repeated opinions on why their Wii's are currently "gathering dust in a corner". There are loads of quality games on the Wii, with more to come. If you don't like it, bugger off back to your shooters. As it is, I don't consider myself hardcore at all. Or casual. I just like to play games, and there is plenty to keep me extremely happy on the Wii. Certainly nothing has enticed me on the other consoles one bit. Not one pang of jealousy has struck me in the 18 months of Wii ownership. And I'm no fanboy either. I just like the games I like, and the Wii has the games I like. I've currently got 20 excellent titles. That to me is a brilliant personal library at this stage in it's lifespan. Basically, my point is, don't fall for the fake discussion about the Wii, and just play the games you like.

I'm only going on what I've read on other games forums, GameFAQs site for example, but yes apparently the game is unfinishable. None of the reviews so far have picked up on that yet, so it'll be interesting to see if someone can confirm it. And that's amongst a whole myriad of other bugs and glitches that are worse on the Wii than any other platform. As I say though, I've not played it, only going on what those who have are saying. I love Anniversary. Can you get Legend for Wii, and is it any good? I fancy a cut price, better quality Raider this Christmas, and if Legend is available I might go for it.

From what I gather TR: Underworld is a terrible rush job on the Wii. The 360/PS3 versions aren't that hot, but there are plenty of disgruntled Wii owners around who bought this only to find a complete disaster. Apparently it's been seriously chopped down from the other versions, which in themselves aren't doing anything that great over the Anniversary game. It's also incredibly buggy and glitchy, with a particular game killing bug at the end of the game (you have to pull a lever to exit the level, and it's not in there in the Wii game). A distinct lack of enemies has been noted too. I thought Anniversary was really underrated on the Wii, and I loved every minute of it. I don't expect I'll be bothering with this though if the stories are true.

Right, that's surprised me. I think that looks fantastic. After my earlier moaning! It looks much better now than when I saw it before. Watching it moving and seeing the new town, I have to say now I reckon I'll pick it up. I don't think I'll pay full price though, but I will definitely be buying that.

Count me in with the disappointed crowd on this one. Played the GC game to bits and loved it. The DS version is also fantastic and gets played regularly. Looking at the Wii version, I just can't help but feel cheated. They've done, in reality, absolutely nothing to the game. Added nothing of any great note, and improved nothing overall. Like Dazzy says, what the hell have Nintendo done with the time? I'm sure I will pick it up, since I sold my GC version a long while ago and quite miss it. But I'll be damned if I'm paying full price for it. I'll wait till later next year and pick it up on the cheap, thanks. In the meantime I'll carry on with the DS version. I'm not paying £30 for it. Maybe £15-20 next year. Upset about that, really.

They're a bit crap then? Oh well. I'll hang on a bit, but if I see it around elsewhere I'll pick it up. Thanks for the reply. I don't mind waiting, especially at such a good price, but 4 weeks and nothing is a bit crap choose how you look at it isn't it? Thanks again.

Blimey that's fantastic. I've been after this on the cheap for a while. Currently they're showing it as out of stock. I've ordered it, but it says there could be a 4 week wait. Has anyone here used Zavvi online before? Is it really likely to be that long? Are they likely to pull the offer and leave you gameless? Let me know. It's the first order I've ever made with them.

This is looking phenomenal. I adored this on my old Playstation, as did the missus. It's a shoe-in for our Wii. Do we have any clue what the expected release date is for Europe? I love how they've improved the visuals. I hope they don't abandon the Wii controls, but saying that I hope they don't try to force them in either. The motion gestures could work really well with throwing enemies around. It's going to be a must buy for me. They don't make platformers like this anymore.

There's probably some truth to this. It is in my case at least, I won't deny it, but only because it just looked to me as though EA have done nothing to improve the FIFA gameplay on Wii. I bought FIFA08 at launch on Wii and thought it an OK game, but there was obviously room for much improvement. Improvement that I honestly thought EA would implement this year. I played 08 an awful lot, and just felt that long term it was barely a demo for Wii. There were no modes really for the solo player to enjoy, just League games over and over. The mini games are basically like free Flash games, and do not make up for the lack of decent long term modes like the Be A Pro or Manager modes. To be fair, PES 2008 suffers a bit with this too (Champions Road isn't good enough long term really, we need Master League back), but because the gameplay is so deep and varied, the learning curve is longer and more rewarding. It's not perfect, don't get me wrong, but it's an amazing attempt at updating PES for the new controls, and to me after spending time exploring it you realise the Wii controls aren't to be sniffed at. FIFA 08 was brilliant right up until PES came out, where it was just completely exposed. Without competition from Konami, I wouldn't be complaining. As it is, EA have much to do to bring FIFA Wii up to scratch. Stealing some control aspects of Wii PES, and adding yet more mini games does not warrant a purchase for me. For FIFA fans there is simply no point to the Wii iteration. You're better off with either the 360, PS3, or even the PS2 version as far as I can see. Just my opinion.

Blimey! It's as bad as I feared then. It's a real shame. I don't understand it - EA seem to be quite happy giving Wii FIFA fans a chopped down, stripped out version of the PS2 game. Now I know the Wii cannot match the 360 for graphical oomph, but I'm pretty sure they could do much, much more with the Wii than what they have so far. It's not some two-bit outfit we're talking about. It's EA, one of, if not the biggest publisher in the games industry today. It's a powerhouse. They should be delivering quality on Wii to match Nintendo's own output. The markets there for the taking, but as long as they're content to deliver poor ports, I'll shop elsewhere thanks. I knew something was up. No previews, no decent reviews for ages (arguably still none even now). Tells it's own story does that. Still, thanks for the heads up Dazzy. I would have honestly bought this if it was any good, but I've read too much of these types of comments now. Spring it is then, and PES2009.

Oh sorry! It's not that, it's just that I'm sure I read somewhere that Seabass has very little involvement in the Wii version. Of course that could be wrong. I can't find a source for that. Also, I know a lot of 360 and PS3 Pro Evo fans have been very vocal about the naff online modes in their versions, which is why the quote sounded like it wasn't necessarily about the Wii game. Still, this is about the only game I can see me paying full whack for in the next six months. It's going to be fantastic, I've no doubt. Still playing PES2008 every day, and it still amazes me how well they've done it. It's really better than I could have hoped, so a new PES is a shoe-in for me.

Is he actually talking about the Wii version there darksnowman? I only ask because I see it's a quote from Shingo himself, and I didn't think he had anything to do with the Wii version.

This looks pretty good to me. It makes me want PowerStone on Wii though.

So reading this then seems to confirm my initial thoughts. It's really only of any use for those who simply couldn't get on with Konami's PES revamp. It certainly doesn't look as good as PES, and it has nowhere the depth of gameplay. So, you have the up to date kits and teams, and a simpler, less demanding game with FIFA. It's like the last gen! I've been reading similar comments around the net, so for me I will definitely be sticking with PES for my football fun on Wii. In spite of the out of date teams, it has the gameplay in spades, and what with promised improved edit mode and further tweaking of the controls in the next version, it's only going to get better. I simply don't see the point adding £30 into EA's "casual" coffers this year.

Same here. I can't help feeling that a lot of the fan love that's emerged recently for Wind Waker is quite often based on nostalgia for the GC. It's a classic case of "you'll miss it when it's gone", and that's what Wind Waker is currently enjoying. These forums were full of disappointment when the game was actually out. My feeling is that while Wind Waker is a cracking game, there just isn't enough of it to justify the fuss. It's all over so quickly, and there's a nagging feeling of Nintendo just going through the motions with the actual game itself, that it almost killed off the impact of the amazing art direction. It feels like a mini Zelda adventure, rather than a fully fledged and finished article. Even more criminally, Nintendo had to drag parts out, which to me should be completely uncalled for in such a short game. There was so much unfulfilled potential with it. I only hope that Nintendo go back to this style at some point in the future and complete it. Though Twilight Princess takes it's lead from Ocarina quite heavily, it still delivers a grander and more rewarding experience for me. It might be tough at some bits, or easy at others, or even boring at some other moments, but that's the nature of such a large scale game. On balance, I'll take that over brief any day. While I have very, very fond memories of Wind Waker, I have relished almost all of Twilight Princess just like I once did the beautiful Ocarina of Time and the majestic Majora's Mask. That to me is what a Zelda game is about, and for me Wind Waker fell shy.

Just been watching a YouTube video of it. It was only posted yesterday, and looks like it's up to date, with the new controls and menus showcased. As expected, it doesn't look that great, and I suspect my feelings about waiting for PES will prove it the sensible thing to do. I'm a bit surprised to find so little opinion of it around the net, but maybe that'll show up in a day or two. I'm sure there'll be some fans, not least of those who simply cannot cope with the Wii setup and are desperate to use the Gamecube pad for their footie fun. But for me the PES controls are sublime, and though they need a bit of polishing for the next version, I've no desire to play FIFA in between. I'm just getting too much out of the current PES at the moment. Still, I'm curious to hear of forumites feelings about it regardless. EDIT: The keeper saves the penalty at the end, but they still lose? Hmmm...bugs!

I can't see me going back to a regular pad now for PES. I love the Wii setup, and I'm still discovering stuff about the game even now after months of regular play. But I applaud the decision to pack more into the game, and I'll be holding out for this instead of "making do" with FIFA. I still play PES2008 every day anyway, and I'm yet to tire of it, so waiting for the next one will be easy for me. My hat's off to Konami for really delivering the promise of Wii control with PES. I still think it's one of the Wii's greatest successes, and it deserves to do well.

Really surprised Twilight Princess doesn't get the love it deserves. It's inevitable in such a big game that there'll be one or two tricky bits, or a couple of moments that don't hit the spot for everyone. On balance, though I loved Wind Waker, I just felt so cheated. It presented a stunning new art style for Hyrule and it's inhabitants with such colour and exuberance, then went and dropped the ball when it came to giving us a game of any merit. It felt as though the rest of the game was going to turn up on another disc, but Nintendo forgot to put it in the box. I completed it so quickly and was shocked at the end. I remember thinking, is that it? The sailing was the least of my complaints, though obviously Nintendo used it to cynically expand the length of the game. It was a lack of everything else that broke my heart in the long run. By comparison, I've loved every moment of Twilight Princess. I can understand how some feel it paid too much homage to Ocarina. It's a fair point. It's a very traditional Zelda, so is quite linear feeling next to WW's open seas. But for me the epic story and the wonderful characters kept me gripped, and none of it felt laboured. I loved the whole wolf thing and Midna so much. I won't say it's perfect - there's obviously so much to do that can improve on the Zelda series - but for me it's the better Zelda of the two. It delivered a game I could get my teeth into. It completely made my Christmas last year. I do still feel there is a lot of mileage in the WW art style for Zelda, but it needs a proper game behind it. I do hope they return to it one day. But in this poll, out of the two, I pick Twilight Princess as my fave.

Amen. I'm totally gutted that EA have done sod all to improve the game for us Wii fans. They've just nicked the PES style - badly - and stuck it to last year's game. Hey presto! FIFA09! Throw in some poorly judged "casual" aimed cartoon crap, and you're away. I honestly didn't expect them to match the other platforms versions for graphics and features, but they might have made more of an effort for us on the Wii. As it is, it looks like EA have decided the Wii is only good for half baked wiggly PS2 ports. Luckily for us, PES wipes the floor with FIFA on Wii. What a pity we have to wait till spring for the next one, but considering how deep the current one is I'm fine with that. Better that than reward this cobblers with real money.

Don't fall out with me, but I think that looks appalling. On this evidence, I don't mind sticking with PES2008 until the next one comes out in the Spring next year. I think if you have a 360 or PS3 then FIFA's making strides, but to me on Wii Konami's game is way ahead. Disappointed.

I won't go over the stuff you've already mentioned in this thread - OK I will - PES, Metroid, Wii Sports, Excite Truck, Resi 4 and Mario Galaxy all feature wonderful motion controls that I can't imagine gaming without now. The one I would add to the list of my own is No More Heroes. It's a love it or hate it game (I adore it), but you can't deny either way just how much fun the combat is with the remote. Plus not only that, but the absolutely fantastic way Travis has to charge up the beam sword deserves a mention in the list on it's own! Gamers are sniffy about the Wii, but I wouldn't swap these games for anything else.

I thought EA did a fine job with FIFA08 on Wii. I mean, they clearly weren't sure how to implement the controls, but it actually turned out OK, if a little unspectacular. I certainly agree that PES is lacking a lot of features compared, but it's still the more satisfying of the two games for me. The controls need a bit of polishing up for sure, but as an experiment with Wii possibilities it's a resounding success. I haven't touched FIFA08 since getting PES at launch. I love the depth of play that PES offers over FIFA on Wii. But I don't mean to be too negative. I'll keep an eye on FIFA, and hope it turns out well. We need competition in this area on Wii. The GameCube never had that, so you either had FIFA or you did without. The spring release for PES is a real issue though, and it remains to be seen whether it'll be harmful to the series in the long run. What's the release date for FIFA then, by the way?

I know what you are saying, but it seems to me that EA have put a lot of effort and a lot of focus on the more casual elements in the new Wii FIFA. This is clearly the bit they're pushing as the big addition to the game, and it's one that puts me off it. I'd much rather they spent time polishing the football proper, instead of wasting everyone's time with this cartoon-style football mode. As you say, we've not heard a lot about the main game on Wii, but I can't have much hope for it when they're pushing this. Any time and effort wasted on this type of addition detracts from polishing up the actual game - the part that people are going to actually play, as opposed to try once and bin. As for ripping off Konami's PES controls...I'm disappointed by that too. Wouldn't it have been better again to perfect what you have and polish it, instead of nicking someone else's idea wholesale? It's a case of letting someone else do the developing for you. I didn't realise you could get away with this in the software world. Nah. I'll see how it looks, but it's going to be PES for me on Wii in the future.

FIFA for the Wii looks appalling this year to me. Looks like they've mostly eschewed any kind of improvement to the main game, and spent a lot of time bolstering the more casual elements of the title. I was reading somewhere that they've incorporated a hefty wedge of control ideas from PES, and that will be one of many different control options for the regular football shenanigans. However, they've put a lot of focus onto the cartoony Mii football side of things, as they see that as being more attractive to EA's beloved "casual" gamer audience. I think it was on Eurogamer where I saw the article. Really, it put me off the game completely this year, so I'd rather just stick with PES2008 for however long it takes for the new one to appear. I'll keep an eye on how it turns out, but the more I hear about EA's focus on the "casual gamer" on Wii the less I want to give them my money. EDIT: No, it was IGN.

If we're going to have an out of date game anyway, I'd much rather they skip the spring release and bring it back into line for PES 2010. Just doesn't make any sense to bring it out next spring. I say, improve the game ready for a proper release in the autumn.