Sheikah

My concern there is that if the handheld and console will be somewhat comparable (although different specs), it will mean that the next home console they make will be very unlikely to match the competition. Not surprising but still disappointing.

I wasn't posting on the forums either at 2AM - 11:45 PM was my last post. Not that it's any of your business, nor should anyone take anything from it. It really does make you look desperate to have to attack the timestamp of people's posts. I like how you deflect my question about your job and the potentially inflexible hours. I would not even dream of pissing on somebody's job, but if you're going to get personal with me by claiming I'm a loser then you're simply not going to come out of this argument well. Not well at all. Resorting to mentioning being in bed with a beautiful woman seems a little desperate again, it's not something I would ever brag about and I do it every night. I literally have no idea why you feel the need to square up to me in this way, who are you trying to convince? Regarding metacritic, it's a little weak that when it doesn't argue your case then you are happy to overlook that another game is rated better than the one you hold in higher regard and actually make sound points as to why you think the game is better. I have on more than one occasion see you use metacritic percentages as pretty much the sole basis to argue that some games were better than others.

Funny, what does the hours I keep have to do with being sad? I could easily swing it around and say 'mother doesn't let you stay up late'. At the end of the day, going down that line of talk just makes you look like a complete jerk. If I choose to visit forums at a different time to you then that's because of the hours I work. Swing it another way - perhaps you alight early because you have a shitty job? In fact let's dispel the myth, if we're all going to start getting personal then what do you do for a living? Making assumptions like that makes you appear very desperate, as if there is nothing in my post you feel you are actually able to challenge. Not to mention biased, considering you directed not an ounce of criticism towards Ronnie for similarly posting at that time! Metacritic is the fuel of fanboys. It's funny, because when you can't use it you are actually capable of having a decent conversation. Like the other day, you were commenting how NSMBU was in a different league to Rayman Legends, and giving your reasons for thinking so. Great, but I'm willing to bet if NSMBU was rated considerably higher than Rayman on MC (not the other way round, which it is) you'd have placed that as the foundation of your argument. As you have with SM3DW and other Nintendo games when trying to compare it to the competition.

Oh don't worry, your ignorance about pretty much any non Nintendo console game has always been there for all to see.

So accusing games of repeating the same types of gameplay and presentation as opposed to offering fresh and exciting gameplay is not to downplay the quality of said games? Who'd have known? I wonder, shouldn't not having played those games preclude you from forming most of those opinions, too?

I am actually flabbergasted that you just admitted you're in no position to judge the quality of those games, despite having done so on a number of occasions!

All this does is shows how much of a farce metacritic is and why you should never use it to drive home your agenda. Your most delectable hate campaign versus the 'grey mainstream' argues my point nicely. GTA IV - do you think this is a masterpiece, out of interest? It's currently sitting at a Metacritic of 98. So it must be more revolutionary than Mario, ja? I've already ceded, NSM3DW is a very technically accomplished game, but in my opinion it's no masterpiece. I agree with Ashley's criticisms and praise of the game. S'all my point ever was.

I literally have no clue what point you are making here. Review games on what they are, not what they aren't? What if the things they aren't are things that would have made them a masterpiece, as opposed to being a very good technically accomplished yet safe play? Oh, Ronnie.

The platforming was basically similar to what had gone before, but worse because of the scale and design of the levels. Most of the levels were small in scope, with a lot of semi-fixed "2.5D" or "quasi-3D" sections that made the game often feel stuck somewhere between home console and handheld outings. If you were to compare it to Mario 64, which I don't think I'd be wrong in saying is idolised by many gamers for its ambition and scope of levels, NSM3DW was very far from this, and I was somewhat disappointed. They have the potential to deliver something far tastier than what they did.

Not that I like scoring systems but this was no masterpiece, I completely agree with Ashley's review. The world structure was a far cry from the greatness of Mario 64's hub world and ultimately this game felt very safe, what with sticking to a tried and tested Mario Bros map and boss fighting format. It didn't seem to be innovating in the ways Galaxy or even Sunshine had; I'm sure making it somewhat like Mario Bros is bound to resonate with people who buy those games in crazy numbers, but it does not make for a particularly exciting game. What made it worse was that the level structure felt like a regression to somewhere between 2D and 3D titles of old. That said, it's a very polished game and not like anything produced by anyone else. It's definitely a fun game but not nearly as exciting as Galaxy was.

Can we all agree not to use metacritic to keep making our points? Just such a shit way to quantify the values of games when clearly people enjoyed the game regardless of whatever number the site states.

Cool. Think I can maybe do between 7-8, thought 8 would be ideal but it's looking more 7-8 now!

I see Shorty is on, you know when you will be on @MilaGi?

I'm around from 4PM so could do even earlier if you guys are available @Shorty @MilaGi. Otherwise 8 is fine.

Nah I'll tell you what's happened, Nintendo themselves turned all but the remaining militant Nintendo fanboys into questioning Nintendo's policies to online, relations with third parties and hardware choices. I like Nintendo games but that doesn't mean I can't call out things like iterative sequels when the very same comment was just made about the competition. Also, all Nintendo games are iterative? Words in my mouth there. I'm just pointing out that most of them are these days, which is why I think his comment more applies to Nintendo.

Is it a derail? I've just called out his 'Nintendo are innovating relative to the others' spiel in a topic about the Wii U. If anything, it's back on track! I'm also not at all hot and bothered about it, it was more amusement really that he'd claim such.

Yeah, Nintendo are innovating through the roof with such titles as Pikmin 3, NSMB, Zelda, Mario Kart and Smash Brothers. Cutting edge features like seamless voice chat, comprehensive online connectivity and totally new gameplay. Not at all making iterative sequels. Meanwhile Demon's Souls-esque online meta cooperation/hindrence, perk-based shooter loadouts and hide and seek style Assassin's Creed multiplayer show that every game on the other console is playing out just like it always has.

Man, you just don't realise how ignorant you come across to everyone on this forum, do you? You haven't played these games and don't know anything about them. The way you try to compare these titles is pretty funny considering we've all played the games you're talking about and know the generalisations are so off. You're so blinkered in your views, seemingly incapable of broadening your horizons and seeing where people might be coming from. Really poor form.

Yeah, couldn't have put it better myself. So wrong on so many levels. If his argument is again about colour and he's including future titles and purely going by the boxes, that's a poor way to go about it as it excludes games like Persona 5, Kingdom Hearts and FFXV, as well as games without boxes like No Man's Sky.

Even with filters on some of the levels, those music stages still require far more pinpoint accuracy and reflexes (more than NSMBU, which runs at a slower pace and you're not running constantly, since you can pause to reorient yourself and whatnot). If you don't jump right when they want you to, or strike an enemy just so, you're probably dead in those Rayman levels. The way it feels to jump is a preference really, but I don't think one feels worse than the other - it's just what you're used to or what you prefer. If you fall quicker from a jump or don't jump as far in one game relative to another then you become aware of this and adapt when you jump in relation to a platform. It's more how game developers design their levels around their characters - if Rayman can jump far, but the platforms are placed further apart (but just 'right' so precision is needed), then overall you get the feeling that the platforming feels more tight. That's the feeling I get much more with Rayman relative to NSMB. With NSMB, I always feel like I have more breathing space and am not as pressured to time my jumps so precisely. Regarding the filters on that music level, it was more of a challenge to react to the music than remember the course, I felt. Although the levels like ghost house, airship and whatnot were cool, it's that they've been repeated so many times now that it's hard to feel any excitement for them. The whole world structure with its miniboss that requires 3 hits, baby bowser in his little helicopter, toad houses, etc, are things we've seen many a time. It'd be nice for them to come up with new concepts and themes than keep going with the same thing. I agree that the Rayman Legends painting array was a more boring hub than the NSMBU map, but I can't shake that the map system and the similar structure it brings could be moved on from. At least, I wasn't particularly happy when it worked its way into NSM3DW.

I realise this now goes deep into our own experiences/preferences but...here goes. Bar few examples, for me NSMBU was generally not difficult to play through, in part because of how safe it is (which I think is partly because they dare not upset the balance they have established in these games, and being mindful of target audience). For the most part, NSMB feels like just a much more laid back game (look at the pace of Rayman legends levels where you're running versus NSMB where the screen is tracking along). For the main game in NSMB, if you even know slightly what you're doing you'll easily clear the game with stacks of lives and power ups that you can stock up on to pretty much make it a cinch. If I start a level in NSMB with a power up and a power up in reserve, not only do I have added abilities but I can take a good few hits too. At its most difficult in Rayman, if you literally knock that one enemy or stop the rhythm then you're done for. You can be skilled and not die on them, but that doesn't detract from the added challenge they bring relative to NSMBU runner levels. I literally cleared the normal mode of NSMB with next to no difficulty whatsoever, never getting even slightly phased by a single level. As for challenge levels, they are indeed more challenging, but for me they were still not particularly difficult. The pace is so much slower than Rayman as you run at a speed that let you react without much difficulty (again, personal opinion here). There are weekly extreme challenges on Rayman that are much tougher IMO as they are tests of mental endurance and no fuck ups, if you want to place high on the ladder. For further comparison, there's a level in Rayman Legends that is not only a music level but the screen splits into several tiny screens, goes fuzzy and generally becomes incredibly fucked up. That level really brought a smile to my face, took me back to the days of Metal Gear Solid with an out of game experience. It would be nice to see that kind of thing in NSMB I think!

Guys, when I'm saying 'tight' I don't mean whether my character sinks like a stone when he jumps. I'm talking about the engineering of the levels. In the music levels in Rayman for instance, if you mis-time a jump, you will die. It's very precise, something that must come from them carefully designing their levels and repeatedly playing through them to test them. They've had to make the platform spacing and length of them just right, place obstructing enemies with a lot of thought, and so on. It feels the same with the challenges, and also with quite a few of the regular levels. Not everyone may appreciate that, but I do. With Mario, or at least NSMB, it's generally easy enough for kids to tackle as well as pro gamers. It's nowhere near as tight - you can take your time usually, and even levels where the camera is constantly tracking, you don't have to constantly run like in Rayman and you can even pause to time your jumps, and even then the timing of jumps is nowhere near as crucial. On a relative scale, anyhow. Anyone who has played a music level of Rayman will know exactly what I'm getting at. Unless you are god's gift to gaming, you will die a lot in perfecting your run. I never get that with NSMB. I mean, there's definitely some levels that are challenging but I feel they're challenging in different ways, not through seriously tight/well planned level design. In terms of tight Mario levels, star 242 on SMG2 is definitely a contender for that! To end this post, let me just say, I think the design of the Mario Bros style was brilliant. Mario is iconic. Super Mario World was/is amazing. The truth is, as I've grown up, I feel like the NSMB games are basically offering the same game over and over, along with the themes/environments, and the gameplay isn't changing enough. I welcome tight platforming as it's more of a challenge for me and something new to play with.

Completely agree with this. Decades ago, Nintendo came up with a great concept that has now become their cash cow. It's just so cookie cutter in the way they churn out more games in the Mario Bros format. The new Rayman is a much fresher and relevant series. Unlike Mario which is pretty forgiving in how you tackle platforms, Rayman feels a lot tighter.

Hot damn, how do you afford all these collector's editions?

I'm just going to leave it there because unless you can explain your reasoning as opposed to 'it sucks', I fear we are at an impasse.