Kirby and the Forgotten Land (March 25th 2022)

[Hero-of-Time]

38 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

Did somebody say guitars in Kirby games?

For me this is still the king.

Hell of a track from a hell of a game.

[Dcubed]

Guys! You can’t do a Kirby music tribute without mentioning C.R.O.W.N.E.D, that’s not allowed!

Oh, you want more electric guitars you say? Well then, the Rainbow Curse arrangement has got you covered

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Dcubed

[Glen-i]

5 hours ago, Ronnie said:

What. Have you done. 

If it's any consolation, as soon as I thought to mention that, it got stuck in my head as well.

Truly, the double-edged sword of music.

[Ronnie]

3 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

If it's any consolation, as soon as I thought to mention that, it got stuck in my head as well.

Truly, the double-edged sword of music.

Tbf, it's one of like 5 games that instantly take me back to my childhood so it's not all bad.

[Ronnie]

Dear lord the Parade level theme tune is catchy.

And I'll never get tired of the instrumentation changing between worlds but the same basic song staying the same. I think New Super Mario Bros started it, but I could be wrong. Or maybe Skyward Sword walking around the Skyloft bazaar?

[MindFreak]

7 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Dear lord the Parade level theme tune is catchy.

And I'll never get tired of the instrumentation changing between worlds but the same basic song staying the same. I think New Super Mario Bros started it, but I could be wrong. Or maybe Skyward Sword walking around the Skyloft bazaar?

I'm thinking Banjo Kazooie in that regard. 

[darksnowman]

Chrono Trigger and Mario World? When I was wee I thought it was lazy.   

[Glen-i]

7 minutes ago, darksnowman said:

Chrono Trigger and Mario World? When I was wee I thought it was lazy.   

Mario World kinda does it, but it's not a seamless transition like in BK and this game. (Except the Yoshi percussion)

I don't remember Chrono Trigger doing this at all though.

[Ronnie]

2 hours ago, MindFreak said:

I'm thinking Banjo Kazooie in that regard. 

Oh fair enough, I've not played it 

[darksnowman]

1 hour ago, Glen-i said:

Mario World kinda does it, but it's not a seamless transition like in BK and this game. (Except the Yoshi percussion)

I don't remember Chrono Trigger doing this at all though.

Maybe I didn't understand what @Ronniemeant then.

[Dcubed]

Super Mario Bros is the first game I can think of that did any sort of interactive music (music speeding up when time is running out).

1 hour ago, Ronnie said:

Oh fair enough, I've not played it 

This is absolutely criminal though!! Come on! It's right there on the N64 NSO service! It's an all time classic! You MUST play it!!

[Ronnie]

21 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Super Mario Bros is the first game I can think of that did any sort of interactive music (music speeding up when time is running out).

That's just cutting to a different tune though, I'm talking about the same music seamlessly shifting instrumentation as you walk into different areas. 

23 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

This is absolutely criminal though!! Come on! It's right there on the N64 NSO service! It's an all time classic! You MUST play it!!

I'll get hate for this and I should try it before judging but I get the impression those games haven't aged well. 

[Ashley]

For what it's worth Mark Brown did a video (seemingly his first in fact) on adaptive soundtracks which I think is what you're on about?

 

[Dcubed]

12 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I'll get hate for this and I should try it before judging but I get the impression those games haven't aged well. 

You are very wrong, and yes, you should try it before judging.  You'll almost certainly love it!

[Glen-i]

38 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I'll get hate for this and I should try it before judging but I get the impression those games haven't aged well. 

You know how Mario Odyssey shifted to have all its moons available at once and once you collected one, you carried on from right there to go get more?

You can thank Banjo for that.

The only thing I can honestly say has aged (other then graphics, duh) is that the button layout is not ideal for a more modern controller setup. It'll take some getting used to if you don't have an N64 controller, as some abilities are activated by holding Z and then pressing the corresponding C Button.

Other then that, it's still among the best of the collection based platformers.

[darksnowman]

2 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Oh fair enough, I've not played it 

You should try it if you have the Expansion Pack so you can form your own opinion, although if you aren't too bothered about it, it's totally fine and skippable as the likes of this Kirby game and Mario Odyssey have you more than covered.

If/ when I get around to it on NSO, my opinion could change (for better or worse...!) but here's what I remember from the late 90s anyway. Best things I can say about it is it has that Rareware personality, the music's decent enough and it's cool of them to have been exploring the possibility of stop 'n' swap. However, the camera's ropey at best and way behind Mario 64, and you have to combine button presses for your moves and find pads in the levels so you can do stuff so the gameplay's a pain. 

I don't have it for N64 however did borrow it soon after release and played up to Rusty Bucket Bay and was shown the ending, so hopefully, you'll see I'm not just being a contrarian for the sake of it. Plus being a Nintendo and Rareware fan you'd've thunk I'd've loved B-K unconditionally... but not so! If you've played DK 64 you know what to expect, sadly.

As I said, I'm open to firing it up some time since it's sitting there on the Switch but yeah it's not mandatory to automatically be on board with everything.  

1 hour ago, Ronnie said:

That's just cutting to a different tune though, I'm talking about the same music seamlessly shifting instrumentation as you walk into different areas. 

Ah, okay. Now I know what you're getting at. No examples spring to mind at the moment however I remember a lot of hoo-ha around Ocarina of Time because of the way it brings in the enemy encounter music and fades it back out again. You just couldn't do that on discs, you know!

[Hero-of-Time]

And my adventure is over.

Spoiler

I'm glad I came across those codes because I really needed those extra Star Coins in order to afford all of the gacha models. I still needed to grind about 2000 more but thankfully doing the food service mini game at the highest level nets you around 200 per run. 

Fantastic game and a very worthy entry in the Kirby series. I know a lot of the conversation around these games always revolves around the difficulty level but it's honestly something that doesn't really bother me. There's certainly a place for such games on the market and as long as they are fun then that's all that should matter. If you are looking for a laid back and cozy experience then this game will certainly up up your alley. I do think it's one of the easiest in the series though. I mentioned to drahkon and darksnowman that I think a lot of this is due to how open the levels are. A lot of the time you don't need to engage with the enemies at all and can simply scoot on by them. It's very similar to something like Super Mario 3D World/Land.

The soundtrack is amazing. It's very varied and it's always hilarious to hear epic tunes in such a cartoony game. One of my favourite tunes is from the 3rd level in the 3rd area. It perfectly captures the feel of the level you are playing in. 

Spoiler

 

I found some of the Kirby powers to be very OP in this game. A fully levelled up fire or ice ability can destroy bosses. The ice ability was my one of choice, mainly because it freezes bosses in place and then does a stupid amount of damage. You can also guard without taking any damage. This made the missions for not taking damage during a boss fight very easy.

Spoiler

I always forget how epic Kirby endings can get. It was hilarious to see him turn into a truck and I honestly had flashbacks of playing Halo 3. It was like when the Halo ring was blowing up and you had to drive the Warthog across an exploding world. This what was happening in this game, except the Warthog was a truck/Kirby. It was absolutely hilarious.

 

Spoiler

I wasn't too impressed with the post-game stuff. Having to replay the worlds again just to find souls wasn't that appealing. I'm happy that the game let you know if you missed some of the souls in area. There were still a couple of times where I had to replay a level due to missing one of these souls but once you aren't looking for all of the others you can make short work of the levels.

The game is certainly a return to form for the franchise. I enjoyed Star Allies but this one is a step up from that and should be seen as a template for the games going forward. This is another must have game for the Switch and well worth paying full price for if you want a cute, colourful platforming game. It may not test your gaming skills but it will most definitely bring a smile to your face. 

[Glen-i]

I was surprised at how quickly people were knocking out this game's "True Arena", but...

Spoiler

Yeah, definitely the easiest one in the series. Did it on my first attempt without any boosting items. Didn't even need the Maxim Tomato I stashed away.

It's not that the bosses aren't hard, because they have attack patterns bordering on bonkers. Especially the last one. I probably would've died in normal circumstances. (I did crack a smile when the last boss turned into a rainbow sphere and started trying to bounce on me, how very Canvas Curse!)

But Morpho Sword is anything but your normal ability!

Sword Beams at full health? A charge attack that rivals Hammer in damage output and then doubles the size of the damn sword for a bit afterwards? An utterly broken R dodge that's highly abusable, allowing for so much knock-off Witch Time? And you recover a little health with every attack you land!? Yeah, it's the best copy ability ever, yes, even better then Master from Amazing Mirror! You're mad if you don't use it!

All that's left is to get all the figurines now. I've got almost 30,000 coins saved up from my playthrough, so it shouldn't take long.

EDIT: And that's 100% done. Still have 19,000 coins left over.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Glen-i

[Ronnie]

21 hours ago, darksnowman said:

You should try it if you have the Expansion Pack so you can form your own opinion, although if you aren't too bothered about it, it's totally fine and skippable as the likes of this Kirby game and Mario Odyssey have you more than covered.

If/ when I get around to it on NSO, my opinion could change (for better or worse...!) but here's what I remember from the late 90s anyway. Best things I can say about it is it has that Rareware personality, the music's decent enough and it's cool of them to have been exploring the possibility of stop 'n' swap. However, the camera's ropey at best and way behind Mario 64, and you have to combine button presses for your moves and find pads in the levels so you can do stuff so the gameplay's a pain. 

I don't have it for N64 however did borrow it soon after release and played up to Rusty Bucket Bay and was shown the ending, so hopefully, you'll see I'm not just being a contrarian for the sake of it. Plus being a Nintendo and Rareware fan you'd've thunk I'd've loved B-K unconditionally... but not so! If you've played DK 64 you know what to expect, sadly.

As I said, I'm open to firing it up some time since it's sitting there on the Switch but yeah it's not mandatory to automatically be on board with everything.  

Thanks for this! I guess I always got the impression that Banjo Kazooie was basically "Nostalgia, The Game" and figured you just had to play it back in the day to fully appreciate it nowadays, in a modern context. But I'll give it a go, it's right there in my library anyway. The camera being a step down from Mario 64 doesn't fill me with confidence though haha.

[Ronnie]

Quote

Kirby and the Forgotten Land floated to the top of the UK Boxed charts in its first week, comfortably beating Tiny Tina's Wonderland.

The Nintendo Switch exclusive, which is also the first 3D Kirby game, is the biggest launch for the franchise in the UK ever. It sold 2.5 times the number of copies in its first week as the previous best, which was 2018's Kirby Star Allies (also on Nintendo Switch). It is Kirby's first UK No.1.

Its first week sales alone makes it the fifth biggest Kirby game in the UK, just behind Kirby's Adventure Wii and ahead of Kirby and the Rainbow Paintbrush on Wii U (data courtesy of GfK).

It's worth noting that Kirby is typically one of Nintendo's smallest franchises in the UK.

Good news!

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2022-03-28-kirby-and-the-forgotten-land-is-the-biggest-kirby-launch-in-uk-history-uk-boxed-charts

Edited March 28, 2022 by Ronnie

[Glen-i]

9 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

The camera being a step down from Mario 64 doesn't fill me with confidence though haha.

Outside of some fixed camera angles in some areas, the camera is pretty much free to move anywhere in BK. I don't agree that it's worse then Mario 64 at all. It's not perfect, but what 90's 3D game is in that regard?

Easy thing to overlook is that you can hold R to center the camera behind you.

Anyway, back on topic. I'm not surprised that Forgotten Land did so well. There are better Kirby games, but that Switch Effect doesn't account for taste.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Glen-i

[Dcubed]

Personally, I always thought that BK’s camera is better than Mario 64’s… at least in the original N64 version; the 360 version is a total downgrade in that regard.

[darksnowman]

18 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

The soundtrack is amazing. It's very varied and it's always hilarious to hear epic tunes in such a cartoony game. One of my favourite tunes is from the 3rd level in the 3rd area. It perfectly captures the feel of the level you are playing in. 

  Level From The 3rd Area Of The Game (Reveal hidden contents)

 

 

My adventure in the forgotten land remains ongoing, however, I've played enough to have enjoyed that tune.  Had to hold back from putting it in the music thread! The following world is another cracker.

51 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Thanks for this! I guess I always got the impression that Banjo Kazooie was basically "Nostalgia, The Game" and figured you just had to play it back in the day to fully appreciate it nowadays, in a modern context. But I'll give it a go, it's right there in my library anyway. The camera being a step down from Mario 64 doesn't fill me with confidence though haha.

To be sure, it would be interesting to hear fresh impressions from someone who hasn't played it before. I'll post somewhere with my updated thoughts when I eventually get around to it but I do genuinely remember the camera being a struggle compared to lakitu as it seemed to catch on things and not pan with your run the way it did in Mario 64. Or maybe I'm misremembering how naturally Mario 64 managed to frame the action--I'm not exactly replaying these things every week haha.  

 

EDIT: Returning to say that tune from world 3 is stuck in my head again.

Edited March 28, 2022 by darksnowman

[darksnowman]

Feels nice when you get everything in a level on your first pass through. 

[Dcubed]

The 3rd sword upgrade is quite possibly the most broken ability in Kirby history (It's certainly right up there with Archer!).  It makes absolute mincemeat out of everything lol.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Dcubed