Final Fantasy XVI (22nd June 2023)

[Dcubed]

3 hours ago, Sheikah said:

  

 

FF15 was released on Xbox too, while FF7 is arguably the most popular/revered FF game of them all. FFXVI also was only sold on PS5 with a much smaller install base than the other games.

 

Those are not valid comparisons, and I'm pretty sure you knew that.

 

A brand new mainline game should not be getting outsold by a remake, end of.

Also FF16 being unavailable on rival platforms is not FF15’s problem.  Install base doesn’t scale linearly anyway; there’s like 45+ million PS5s out there now, plenty big to accommodate larger sales than what we’re seeing here (and indeed we’ve seen the likes of GOW Ragnarok pull off much bigger numbers on PS5).

No matter how you slice it and how many excuses you make, this is decline and significant decline at that.  And with dev costs only continuing to spiral higher? It’s an even more disappointing result.

The genre shift did not do FF16 any sales favours.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Dcubed

[Sheikah]

A brand new mainline game should not be getting outsold by a remake, end of.

Ah, so you're going to argue the remake angle.

Never mind that FF7 remake is hardly a remake at all, never mind that FF7 is the most popular game in the series by a country mile and people had been crying out for the remake, and never mind the colossal difference in PS4 versus PS5 install base at the time of game release (with PS4 being much cheaper to pick up at the time too, for people who wanted to buy the console to play the game).

Also FF16 being unavailable on rival platforms is not FF15’s problem. Install base doesn’t scale linearly anyway; there’s like 45+ million PS5s out there now, plenty big to accommodate larger sales.

It's quite strange on your part though, don't you think. Comparing a multiplatform game sales to a game released on a single platform. I thought it was daft, anyway.

No matter how you slice it and how many excuses you make, this is decline and significant decline at that.  And with dev costs only continuing to spiral higher? It’s an even more disappointing result.

The genre shift did not do FF16 any sales favours.

I'm sorry, but your take here completely misses the mark. Eurogamer had an article on this earlier today and made pretty much the same points and came to the same conclusion as me. FF16 sales are impressive, there's no doubt about it. Don't forget as well that Square-Enix have agreed a deal with Sony for PS5 exclusivity. By that reckoning, they don't need to sell as many copies as they would have if it was console multiplatform, as they received Sony's money.

[Julius]

10 hours ago, Choze said:

Also where is the soundtrack?!!!

Physical or digital? 

Digital, I have no idea. Square Enix have started to improve somewhat when it comes to releasing their OSTs digitally, but I still think VII Remake and XIV expansions took a good while before seeing their OSTs made available. 

As for physical...

...I believe it releases next month (well, this month now! How is it already July?!)

I've got myself down for the Ultimate Edition  also considering picking up the Torgal plush (the pup, not the big boy, because...money? And also size. Probably. Yeah let's say that), no idea what I'd do with a plush buuuuuuuut idk, it's calling to me 

10 hours ago, Choze said:

I think it will have good word of mouth as its genuinely good. The story and character moments are also great. I expect lots of combat 'build' and loot experimentation too.

I've not made any progress since my last post (I will this weekend though, I swear!!) but, honestly, it feels like a really solid foundation for more. Whether that's in the form of some DLC or a sequel, I'm not sure, but I remember Yoshi-P in the past saying he'll judge the game's success after 18 months, not it's first weekend, so...fingers crossed? 

10 hours ago, Choze said:

I'll write up a critique soon but my take is quite similar to Julius as a non FF fan.

Look forward to reading your thoughts 

*goes back to Valisthea*

[Julius]

Poster collection dropping next year:

[EEVILMURRAY]

I've done zero looking into this, because I feel you guys can answer/expand it better than a finished review.

My last recent Final Fantasy was XIII, which we all know sucked balls with its corridor action and bland-ish story/combat (I didn't get very far). Does this return more to the open world exploration stylie?

[Julius]

13 minutes ago, EEVILMURRAY said:

I've done zero looking into this, because I feel you guys can answer/expand it better than a finished review.

My last recent Final Fantasy was XIII, which we all know sucked balls with its corridor action and bland-ish story/combat (I didn't get very far). Does this return more to the open world exploration stylie?

Kind of? It's certainly not an open world in the same way that XV was, or how games like Zelda BotW/TotK, Ghost of Tsushima, Skyrim, etc., are, but it's also not linear in the way XIII was (from my understanding of the game from documentary-style videos and just general chit chat about it). 

There are certain linear sections earlier on to ease you into the game's flow or to lead into key story beats, but I think it's most comparable to something like Dragon Quest XI, and would describe both as having wider zones rather than an open world (XV)/zone (something like Xenoblade) structure. There is a world map to access locations from, with local maps clearly defined in their borders, with some key landmarks peppered into a zone, and oftentimes open stretches to challenge the local fauna in. For reference –

Dragon Quest XI (world/local maps):

Final Fantasy XVI (world/local maps): 

Hope that helps  there's a demo available (with save transfer to the full game) which is roughly 2 hours long and I think gives a great taste of the game, would definitely recommend checking it out for yourself if you get the chance! 

[drahkon]

On 6/28/2023 at 4:11 PM, Julius said:

Heck, I don't even think @drahkon has dug in yet because he's busy living Diablo IV

That is correct
And it won't change anytime soon...

[Julius]

We got patches baby, and you know what that means? Finally? MOTION BLUR OPTIONS WOO LET'S GO

 

3 hours ago, Choze said:

I am past some key moments (Titan) and the game is quite over the top with the boss battles! Need to play more.

Around the same area, hoping to finish the game by Friday before I fly out on Saturday...please pray for me (and my burning eyes lmao)

The boss fights are honestly the most outrageously pure fun boss fights I've experienced in a good while. From Software bosses are the gold standard of what I would consider a fair, head-to-head boss fight, but this really takes the cake when it comes to pure anime-esque hype and spectacle. I've said it before, but it needs to be said again: I think the boss fights blow everything else out of the water when it comes to pure scale and spectacle, delivering in a way I think some were hoping Ragnarök would (and did at times! But maybe not quite this consistently)

Anyways, got a fair bit of game to go...so back to it! 

[Julius]

An EP, featuring five tracks from the game (including the previously released Find the Flame) has dropped on major streaming platforms ahead of the full OST release on 19th July:

Soundtrack hype  it's so good! 

[Sheikah]

I’m sorry to bring you down [mention=20895]Julius[/mention], but that’s actually a big decline for the mainline series…

For reference…

Worth noting that it took around 5 years for FF15 to sell another 5 million (and that was at bargain basement prices on multiple platforms), so don’t expect good legs for FF16 either.

This is not a good result.

Just to come back to this...posted on Eurogamer today:

(Square Enix): "With 38m PS5 consoles shipped globally (as of March 31, 2023), sales of Final Fantasy 16 surpassed 3m units worldwide several days after its release on June 22, 2023," said Square Enix.

"Taking into consideration the sales figures of the acclaimed Final Fantasy 7 Remake and the difference in size of the install base of the PlayStation 4 at the time of this title's release, we can see that the attach rate of Final Fantasy 16 is considerably high, given the PS5 install base.

"Square Enix considers the initial sales results of Final Fantasy 16 to be extremely strong, and we will continue to carry out a wide range of initiatives to encourage even more people to play the game."

 

Square-Enix, who are famously always disappointed with sales performance, are happy here, giving all the reasons we told you why they were good sales.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Sheikah

[Dcubed]

3 hours ago, Sheikah said:

Just to come back to this...posted on Eurogamer today:

 

 

Square-Enix, who are famously always disappointed with sales performance, are happy here, giving all the reasons we told you why they were good sales.

It’s PR spin, and you’re falling for it.

S-E have a vested interest in making their core business look healthier than it really is, and in puffing up their big new flagship game to make it look popular and appealing to the public.  Of course they’re going to say that their sales are “good”, despite being a huge drop from its predecessors.

Unless you really think that S-E are happy with spending more than FF15 to achieve less than half of its sales…

To put things in perspective…

Quote

Famitsu Sales: Week 29, 2023 (Jul 10 - Jul 16)
04./02. [PS5] Final Fantasy XVI # <RPG> (Square EnixPlatinumGames) {2023.06.22} (¥9.000) - 8.573 / 396.472 (-39%)

Famitsu Sales: Week 11, 2013 (Mar 11 - Mar 17)
14./11. [PS3] Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance # <ACT> (KonamiPlatinumGames) {2013.02.21} (¥6.980) - 8.484 / 420.069 (-54%)

FF16 is getting bitch slapped by Metal Gear Rising in Japan.  Meanwhile, FF16 is also on track to become the single worst selling mainline FF of all time in Japan, and the west isn’t picking up the slack.  Let that reality sink in…

Edited July 21, 2023 by Dcubed

[Sheikah]

46 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Of course they’re going to say that their sales are “good”, despite being a huge drop from its predecessors.

Of course they're going to say that... apart from the many times they have said they're disappointed with sales? That doesn't make any sense, does it?

You can't expect the game to sell as well as titles sold multiplatform or on systems with many more millions of consoles out there. They're right - the attach rate is really good. And remember that they've been paid off for it being exclusive, so that will have offset the cost of lost sales from it being exclusive.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Sheikah

[Julius]

Finally got back to this after a long time away (holiday, woooooop). 

Beat a boss this evening which might just be the most absurdly insane spectacle of a boss fight showpiece...and I've still good a decent chunk of the game to go according to the % story completion on the game's hub. 

Now, this game is far from flawless. I get some of the criticisms, from it's - at best - confusing handling of racial diversity (I've seen a lot made of their being few, if any, black characters, but this also seemingly extends to characters too?); to the lack of RPG-ness (very little depth in terms of choice beyond choosing three Eikon movesets to apply, made worse by the missing elemental weaknesses and status effects which are genre staples); or just some of the jank you'd expect to run into breaking the immersion (like a chocobo clearly jumping higher than the surface of a rock, but not being able to jump up onto it, despite it not being beyond a boundary line). 

But this game is absolutely and undeniably untouchable in the sheer thrill of the action in - and glorious presentation of - its boss fights, and the accompanying music only fans the flames of what I'm going to say next further: this is the most outright, video gamey fun I've had with bosses in a video game in a long time, quite possibly ever. Any other game which wants to be considered epic and of a grand scale in its showpieces and boss fights (in the fantastical sense) need to be looking at XVI for inspiration. 

I'm absolutely adoring this game. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Julius

[Julius]

This could be my GOTY. 

After 55+ hours, credits are finally rolling for me on Final Fantasy XVI. There's a bit left to do on this first playthrough to get it to 100% before I dive into NG+ and take aim at the Platinum, but this game has left me pretty much stunned. 

The music. The boss battles. The combat. The characters. Their interactions. The world. It's lore. It's scale. Did I mention the music already?

It's not without its flaws, and I'll get to those in due time, but for now: what a game, and what an achievement. It's the most beautiful summer blockbuster of a game I've ever played through. 

I wait on baited breath to see what Creative Business Unit III could do with its potential DLC, and perhaps more exciting, the lessons they'll learn from this game with eyes set on hopefully taking the reins on XVII. 

I wasn't fortunate enough to grow up on Final Fantasy, but this matches and perhaps even surpasses some of the most epic moments in the Final Fantasy games I have played through, all played out as a visual feast for the eyes and a plentiful earful for the soul. I'll give it some time so as to not get totally lost in my own excitement, but this could well be my favourite Final Fantasy, and perhaps even more telling for me, my favourite Final Fantasy soundtrack that I've experienced so far. 

One last time, and seriously: I think this is going to end up my GOTY. I will be shocked if I love a game released in 2023 - from top to bottom, beginning to end, first minute to the last - more than I have this. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Julius

[Happenstance]

Ok despite saying I needed to get back into Baldur's Gate 3 I couldn't help getting FFXVI when I saw it was this week's deal of the week on PSN. That discount along with a cheaper PSN card from ShopTo meant it was finally a reasonable price.

[Julius]

And thus our journey ends...Platinum retrieved! 

Throwing save clears in a spoiler tag as they show the order of key boss fights:

Spoiler

Love seeing it go from a ribbon for the demo clear, to a silver trophy for the standard clear, then to a gold trophy for the NG+/Final Fantasy clear  shame it doesn't list playtime for each, though! 

My initial playthrough was around 55 hours long, doing everything I possibly could, and then it took another 3 hours to clear everything I wanted to there in terms of the tomes, trials, and combat-related trophies.

For my NG+/Final Fantasy playthrough I completed only one quest to help speed things up a little, and otherwise just crit pathed, skipping the majority of cutscenes and destroying most bosses at the first attempt, and also had to do about an hour of grinding for AP to complete my collection of all of the Eikon skills, all of which took 21 hours according to the PS5's timer. 

So just under 80 hours in total, taking things at a casual pace in my first playthrough and charging through the second. And it was worth absolutely every penny 

Final Fantasy Mode/second playthrough thoughts: no real changes in opinion on the game following my second playthrough, though skipping cutscenes did highlight just how many there are, I think the worst it got was skipping through 7 cutscenes in a row towards the end of the game, and there were quite a few instance of there being 4 or 5 in a row throughout.

I weirdly came across way more slowdown during this second playthrough, I'm not sure if that's because of the mixed up enemy composition meaning some with attacks with more/heavier particle effects ended up in more demanding spots, but it was very odd considering my first playthrough was practically flawless from a performance perspective. The mixed up enemy composition in FF Mode is fun, but everything just becomes a sponge, and it's not really fun having even the smallest of enemy encounters stretched out just because.

Mandatory grinding for AP kind of blows and it's the least fun grind I've completed since Yakuza 6, and apparently even if you 100% in both your first and Final Fantasy playthroughs (so, including quests, hunts, etc.), you'll still end up with needing to grind things out a bit.

The lack of variety in the game just in terms of not having any mini-games does feel like the biggest missed opportunity in the game, while it's heavier most of the time, if VII Remake can have mini-games, then I feel XVI should too - especially considering just how much CBU III put into them in XIV!

To end on a positive note, though: despite skipping 90%+ of cutscenes the second time around, the ending still hit like a ton of bricks, and my favourite boss fights were still absolutely brilliant. 

Also just want to pop down a guide or two that I used to make the grind for AP that much easier for anyone else who plays and guns for the Plat:

Spoiler

Basically: hyenas + AoE Eikon skills + the best version of Wages of Warcraft you can get your hands on + teleport to checkpoint + save and reload to restore skills > hyenas + AoE...and so on. 

I've said it before, and I'll say it one last time: absolutely adored my time with XVI, it's definitely in the GOTY conversation for me, and I'm looking forward to hearing about other peoples' journeys in Valisthea! 

Edited September 2, 2023 by Julius

[Happenstance]

I’m about 10 hours in so far and really enjoying it. I was kind of expecting a much more grounded FF game but it sure can get epic at times. Starting to give me Witcher vibes at the moment now that the side quests are starting to feel a bit more important to the world building with the branded. 

[Julius]

A free update launches today (see video below: potential spoilers) and not one, but two, installments of paid DLC are coming to XVI – with an update on that coming later this year! Maybe TGAs? 

Free update

Quote

This video contains spoilers for the main story of FINAL FANTASY XVI.

A FREE update for FINAL FANTASY XVI launches today, with alternate costumes for several characters (including the protagonist, Clive). We have also added a feature that allows you to change the appearance of Clive's weapons and a brand new weapon, the Onion Sword, to his arsenal!

DLC

Spoiler

• alright, Leviathan is turning up. 

• prequel episode/s perhaps about Joshua or Jill (during the gap between Phoenix Gate and the opening of the game) or Cid (before and leading up to his turn)? 

• would love to see/hear more on The Fallen, especially to do with their attempted uprising against Ultima. Alexander as a boss fight and some element of time travel to go back, perhaps? 

Really exciting stuff, already can't wait to get back to Valisthea. And you just know the music is going to kill 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Julius

[Julius]

How can you not love this cast? 

[Julius]

Just some trace hints at the planned DLC from Director Hiroshi Takai at the PlayStation Awards:

More at the TGAs?

[Julius]

DLC announced at The Game Awards: Echoes of the Fallen dropping today (!), and The Rising Tide dropping in Spring 2024. These will come in the form of new chapters taking place before the game's final chapter.

WARNING: Potential spoilers for the main game lie within. 

Quote

The epic story of FINAL FANTASY XVII moves ever onwards.

"Echoes of the Fallen" is out now. "The Rising Tide" is coming in spring 2024.

An Expansion Pass that contains both "Echoes of the Fallen" and "The Rising Tide" for a special discounted price is also available right now.

Good stuff  guess I know what will be tiding me over until Valhalla on Tuesday 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Julius

[Julius]

Some more details on the DLC courtesy of the PlayStation Blog:

Basically, Buster Sword and Away (Orchestrion Roll) are the special items for getting Echoes of the Fallen or the full expansion pass, and as seen in the trailer: Leviathan, confirmed. 

[Julius]

From what I'm reading, it sounds like the DLCs take place between the point of no return and the game's finale. 

There's also this Famitsu article which goes into each bit of DLC a bit: the first DLC is ~3 hours long, focused on battle content and new abilities and accessories; the second DLC is ~10 hours long and much more story-focused, with the new boss we saw in the trailer and new powers. The article also suggests that the PC version of XVI will bundle the main game and DLC. 

Reading through the Square Enix press release for the DLC, it mentions something which seems to imply something pretty big, so I'll stick this in a spoiler tag...

Spoiler

...it's sounding like completing the DLC episodes might result in an alternative ending where Clive survives, having assembled the powers of all of the Eikons? 

Quote

And finally… gaining Leviathan's power will mean that all the power of the Eikons has come together. What will happen to Clive when that happens?

Huh. It's interesting, I remember the plans for XV had DLC which seemed like they would potentially alter the ending from how Tabata & co. talked about them before they got cancelled, so it's curious that they'd follow a similar pattern here. 

I think I'm going to hold off until the second part of the DLC is released before once again taking up arms as Clive, what with Echoes of the Fallen being so short, meaning I'll be back for The Rising Tide in...spring?! 

The year of the JRPG continues to bloom  (and it hasn't even started yet!)

[Hero-of-Time]

I fired the game up this morning. What an opening!

Spoiler

The early story beats have been great, with the young Clive section being the most interesting so far.

His mother seemed to be quite a bitch, even during her first appearance. When the castle was invaded I thought she would have something to do with it. Sure enough the cow was in cahoots with the invaders.

I can't believe Clive's dad was killed off so early and in such a brutal fashion. This lead to Joshua snapping and becoming the Phoenix which was another cool moment. Heartbreaking that he got the hell beat out of him. Was it Clive who became Ifrit? On one hand it looked like it but on the other maybe not. Time will tell....

I'm very intrigued to see how Clive gets his branding. Again, I assume it will be his bitch of a mother that has something to do with it. I'm only a few hours in and I already hate her.

 

[drahkon]

I could get a new copy for 36€...

Ok....I'll buy it

Edited December 19, 2023 by drahkon