drahkon Posted January 9 Posted January 9 Why use the word "rejigger" when you could simply use "change"? Anyways, the Xbox brand is in a terrible place. I'd be surprised if Microsoft will keep it going for more than one more generation. I think next gen will be their last attempt, maybe even chance.
Dcubed Posted January 9 Posted January 9 16 minutes ago, drahkon said: Why use the word "rejigger" when you could simply use "change"? Anyways, the Xbox brand is in a terrible place. I'd be surprised if Microsoft will keep it going for more than one more generation. I think next gen will be their last attempt, maybe even chance. Rejigger is a nice word, shush! Anyway, the lineup is starting to look pretty stacked already... My brain is howling at the thought that Microsoft could be the biggest publisher at the launch of Switch 2 though Could you imagine Nintendo's next console launching later this year with the likes of Sea of Thieves, Killer Instinct, HiFi Rush, Halo MCC/Infinite, Forza and Starfield all available on day 1? Would be a hell of a launch lineup and a hell of a way of introducing Game Pass on Nintendo platforms!
Hero-of-Time Posted January 9 Posted January 9 3 minutes ago, Dcubed said: Rejigger is a nice word, shush! Anyway, the lineup is starting to look pretty stacked already... My brain is howling at the thought that Microsoft could be the biggest publisher at the launch of Switch 2 though Could you imagine Nintendo's next console launching later this year with the likes of Sea of Thieves, Killer Instinct, HiFi Rush, Halo MCC/Infinite, Forza and Starfield all available on day 1? Would be a hell of a launch lineup and a hell of a way of introducing Game Pass on Nintendo platforms! They can stick that where the sun don't shine and keep it off a Nintendo console. 2
Julius Posted January 9 Posted January 9 21 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said: Yeah, those numbers are awful. Again, I don't know what Xbox can do as a brand moving forward. It will be interesting to see if the purchase of Activision will help increase their user base in years to come but at the moment it's just not happening for them. What do you mean? It's simple. They've positioned themselves ever so carefully with very thoughtful long-term planning over the last decade to land exactly where they are in 2024. They mess up the messaging of the Xbox One, tanking the console's sales prospects before it even manages to launch They continue to shoot themselves in both feet, the balls and the ass by bringing their games to PC, bringing console sales screeching to a halt. They continue to release their games in their tentpole franchises with so few changes that they become stale. They see a fairly steep drop-off from one gen to the next and their rival absolutely buries them alive. To turn things around, they announce two SKUs at the start of the next generation, one weak enough compared to the other that it completely botches any sense of ambition, with two stupid names to boot, and yet they still manage to go absurdly over budget on their Day 1 must buy green helmet man game which doesn't release until a year later - and in a month where no-one can even mention it in GOTY conversations. They bury the lede on their acquired smaller studios by putting them shoulder to shoulder with gargantuan acquisitions, the size of which have never before been seen in the industry. They buy up and revitalise Konami. They buy Square Enix. They buy Tencent. They buy PlayStation. They buy Nintendo. Then, they buy Asia. And finally: the moon. You know, I still think it's only a 50/50 shot that they see their numbers start to climb 21 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said: Is Game Pass even covering these development costs, as well as the deals for 3rd party games? There's simply no way. There's almost certainly some number fudging going on if Game Pass alone is covering things, and if it it at the point where it's beyond breaking even, I imagine those margins are incredibly slim considering that if they were reasonable/huge, they'd be screaming them from every rooftop. 21 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said: I wonder if we see Starfield jump over to the PlayStation ecosystem? I have zero interest in the game but I'm sure it would sell pretty well to PS5 owners. It could well do, but I think the problem now is, well, has that ship sailed? Maybe some of the general gaming audience might bite, but given the game is a known quantity filled with bugs, would likely lack mod support on PlayStation, It's certainly not helped by us living in a day and age where we consistently get more high quality releases per year than we did, say, over a decade ago back when Skyrim launched. So I'm not sure if Starfield comes over to too much fanfare, but I have to imagine their approach to the release of Elder Scrolls VI might change following Starfield's. I love BG3, but come on, an entity like Bethesda backed by Xbox shouldn't be having an indie studio wipe the floor with and overshadowing them on virtually every level. 18 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said: [Sea of Thieves potentially coming to other platforms] Interesting choice, if true. Sea of Thieves would be a very interesting choice, and also make complete sense. I'd definitely be down to play it with friends online purely because of how unique an experience it is; it's by no means a console seller, but it does have a dedicated community who deserve to have more people to play with, and the game itself looks incredibly charming. Is it something I'd play weekly? Probably not, I'm sure it'll get stale at some point. But I'd certainly give it a shot! 2 hours ago, drahkon said: Why use the word "rejigger" when you could simply use "change"? But how else can I sound smart on my podcast? 2 hours ago, Dcubed said: Could you imagine Nintendo's next console launching later this year with the likes of Sea of Thieves, Killer Instinct, HiFi Rush, Halo MCC/Infinite, Forza and Starfield all available on day 1? Would be a hell of a launch lineup and a hell of a way of introducing Game Pass on Nintendo platforms! Watch it be the most Nintendo x Xbox move of all time and have Game Pass on Switch locked behind a third NSO tier that no-one will buy 3
Dcubed Posted January 9 Posted January 9 Xbox Direct incoming! 44 minutes ago, Julius said: Watch it be the most Nintendo x Xbox move of all time and have Game Pass on Switch locked behind a third NSO tier that no-one will buy If this scenario were ever to pass, that is exactly how I would expect Game Pass to be implemented on Switch 2.
Dcubed Posted January 9 Posted January 9 (edited) And there it is! https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2024/01/09/xbox-developer-direct-2024/ January 18th! Edited January 9 by Dcubed
Julius Posted January 9 Posted January 9 1 hour ago, Dcubed said: And there it is! https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2024/01/09/xbox-developer-direct-2024/ January 18th! Oh heck yeah, we finally get to see what MachineGames plan to do with Indy! Sure, I'll turn in for that (and then just play it on PC or something ) Some more details: Quote • Indiana Jones game: MachineGames, the award-winning studio behind the recent Wolfenstein series, will reveal their upcoming Indiana Jones game, an action-adventure that puts players in the leather jacket of the legendary archaeologist. Developer_Direct will showcase more than 10 minutes of game and developer insights, including details about the game's setting and story, how fans will actually play as Indy, additional details from his next globe-trotting adventure, and the premiere of the first gameplay trailer. • Avowed: The team at Obsidian will share the first deep dive into the gameplay experience fans can expect in Avowed, their upcoming fantasy action RPG, set in the fantastical, vibrant Living Lands. Learn more about how Obsidian's expertise in building worlds with deep themes, dynamic gameplay, and thoughtful reactivity come to life in Avowed where players will have agency to make choices to shape every step of their adventure. • Ara: History Untold: Hear from the leads at Oxide Games – a studio founded by veterans of the strategy genre and the creators behind classic strategy titles including Civilization V – as they unveil exclusive new gameplay and share more details about the inspiration, key features, and road ahead for their upcoming historical grand strategy game. • Senua's Saga: Hellblade II: Ninja Theory take us behind the scenes at their studio in Cambridge to give us some insight on how they are crafting Senua's Saga: Hellblade II. The team will speak to the ambition and meticulous care involved in creating Senua's journey of survival. Appreciate knowing what the plan is going into the show I guess, though I much prefer the thrill of the surprise and theatrics we see elsewhere. I wouldn't be shocked if all of these games are taking aim at 2024 releases (because if anything is 2025 or beyond they shouldn't be outlining what they're showing and they should have been "one more thing"s), and I certainly hope so, just to start taking a bit of pressure off Senua. At the moment, they're positioning it like a system seller, which it certainly is not. Also, they've confirmed no details on Activision Blizzard games during the showing: Quote Please note that while this show won’t have updates on games from Activision Blizzard, you can look forward to news from those teams later this year. You know, we've been talking about Xbox a bit as of late, but not only have they been generally lacking in must-buy titles warranting a console purchase, they also just seem to lack momentum between these events. I get excited about and see 50 minutes ago, bob said: What a horrendous graphic. Agreed. Also, marketing hat on here: 'Developer_Direct' is absolutely terrible branding for this type of thing, it makes it sound like I'm going to be watching a GDC talk rather than seeing a showcase of new games. 1
Dcubed Posted January 9 Posted January 9 Speaking of Indy... Xbox/Machine Games are in a pretty uncomfortable position with that game, considering that Dial of Destiny ended up being one of the biggest box office flops of all time. Can't imagine that they're feeling good about choosing that property to license at this juncture.
drahkon Posted January 10 Posted January 10 17 hours ago, bob said: What a horrendous graphic. 16 hours ago, Julius said: Agreed. I thought it was a mock-up from a leak made in paint... 1
Julius Posted January 18 Posted January 18 Developer_Direct roundup (which everyone should be doing for their events imo) Solid showing.
Hero-of-Time Posted February 3 Posted February 3 Quote Metrics driven Internet discourse isn't 'considered', but concerns are valid re: 'considered' discourse, if looked at from a different angle there is missing information that you may not see Allusions to a very concise explanation by Xbox about the situation A secondary speaker mentions that other people 'who were concerned previously' are now saying we 'shouldn't be as concerned as we are' The 'Big 3' platform holders have the liberty of paving the road and laying the brick at the same time A lot of conversations around this kind of stuff, it's ongoing, everything discussed has been covered and/or has a clause around it
Dcubed Posted February 3 Posted February 3 So… this is basically the end of Xbox as a console manufacturer? Not much point in continuing to make consoles if you’re not going to have exclusive games. It’s just a big money pit that they don’t need if they’re going to transition into being a hardware agnostic 3rd party publisher.
Hero-of-Time Posted February 4 Posted February 4 7 hours ago, Dcubed said: So… this is basically the end of Xbox as a console manufacturer? Not much point in continuing to make consoles if you’re not going to have exclusive games. It’s just a big money pit that they don’t need if they’re going to transition into being a hardware agnostic 3rd party publisher. That's kinda how it sounds. It would make sense given how little their consoles sell compare to Nintendo and Sony. Ever since they started putting their games on PC there was always a danger of this happening. You are removing a reason to buy dedicated hardware when the games are available elsewhere. We may be well off the mark but I can't see MS wanting to keep throwing money at developing and manufacturing hardware if its not selling.
drahkon Posted February 4 Posted February 4 @Julius Are you gonna do the honors? Or are you also waiting for official confirmation? If the rumours going around right now are true, it's gonna be one of the greatest shifts in video game history. I'll believe it when it's official
Dcubed Posted February 5 Posted February 5 (edited) 6 hours ago, drahkon said: @Julius Are you gonna do the honors? Or are you also waiting for official confirmation? If the rumours going around right now are true, it's gonna be one of the greatest shifts in video game history. I'll believe it when it's official It would be the single biggest industry shift since the death of the Dreamcast in 2001 (or at least since the introduction of the Apple App Store in 2008). And while I wouldn’t be nearly as sad to see MS go as I was SEGA? I’d be a lot more frightened of the consequences this time around as it leaves Sony with what is essentially an uncontested monopoly in the traditional console space. Oh how ironic that the UK government tried to block the ABK acquisition on grounds of giving Microsoft a monopoly when the exact opposite is about to happen! Edited February 5 by Dcubed
Julius Posted February 5 Posted February 5 (edited) I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who bought an Xbox this gen, I remember saying not too long back that the time to make a drastic move like this (be it shifting away from consoles or exclusives) should be at the start of the gen, not halfway through one. Not the loud ones who flame the console wars, mind. I was listening to some old gaming podcasts the other day and they were talking about how at the start of the generation there's excitement around the promise of the console and the games to come, sure, but picking one up early, it's also like proudly backing a horse and the rest of the generation is the console manufacturer trying to prove you were right in your decision. Hopefully this opens some eyes up to Microsoft and Xbox, though, because at the end of the day this is a multinational company that doesn't give a damn. Very curious to see how this is received if and when it becomes official public knowledge, because if this early uproar in response to the leak is anything to go by, man is this not going to be received well. Got to imagine they pull the trigger earlier on that update now the news is out there. They'd be fools to sit on this for a few more months as was planned. On 2/3/2024 at 7:49 PM, Hero-of-Time said: Metrics driven Internet discourse isn't 'considered', but concerns are valid This bit to me screams that Starfield didn't move the needle for Game Pass and that they're happy to down tools in the console fight and just pick up the cheque. I, for one, am shocked, as I'm sure we all are, that a stagnating subscription service failed to get more people onboard with a game which wasn't received overwhelmingly well. I mean, as a business, it's hard to blame them. We've all said all along that taking guys like Bethesda and making them platform exclusive on the smallest platform was a stupid idea. Don't bother bringing Game Pass to PlayStation, just sell the games there at full price, then sell Game Pass off the back of the games being rolled in and maybe being "Xbox first" - make them exclusive for a few months, if Switch 2 has Game Pass then have them there too (via Game Pass of course), before releasing them on PlayStation. The biggest risk I think is to realise your responsibilities then pivot from that of a console manufacturer first and foremost to that of a publisher and subscription service provider: don't be stupid and bring games out in a timely manner with timed releases so that everything in a calendar year can be out by the time GOTY conversations start in November/December. For example, let's say Indiana Jones (I don't know if they make the pivot this year so this is hypothetical) does make it out this year and everything was out in the open and set up about Game Pass and multiplatform publishing, and that for the sake of discussion, Switch 2 is already out there. You bring the game to Game Pass in October - Xbox, PC and Switch 2 - and then, depending on the release calendar, assuming the game gets nominated for awards, either time the release on PlayStation with the TGA nominations dropping OR shadow drop the game the day of the TGAs (which you can do now you're dropping physical media) to reap that buzz after your nom/win. I also can't help but wonder if this has anything at all to do with why Blade and some other game announcements didn't have Xbox branding plastered all over them during recent events like the TGAs? The news that they're thinking about Indy being multi-plat makes me wonder. 23 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said: We may be well off the mark but I can't see MS wanting to keep throwing money at developing and manufacturing hardware if its not selling. Yeah, agree with this. Unless they make a Steam Deck sort of transition they sound seriously done with this whole thing. Along similar lines, them giving up on physical games is going to make distribution a breeze, because I can see them going all-digital on everything but things like Call of Duty for now, but having that be all-digital too by the end of the gen. 6 hours ago, drahkon said: @Julius Are you gonna do the honors? Or are you also waiting for official confirmation? If the rumours going around right now are true, it's gonna be one of the greatest shifts in video game history. I'll believe it when it's official The honours...in terms of starting a topic or updating the console tags on certain topics about certain games? I'll wait. We were dead certain xCloud was coming to Switch half a decade ago and it seems like that's only just now about to come to fruition. I'm very curious to see what the timing is on this rollout if there's truth to it, and I'm also very curious to see what they want to bring over. Forza Motorsport, for instance, might clash too directly with Gran Turismo, but nothing comes close to Forza Horizon on PlayStation right now when it comes to that type of racing game. It's going to take some smart curation, that's for sure. 49 minutes ago, Dcubed said: And while I wouldn’t be nearly as sad to see MS go as I was SEGA? I’d be a lot more frightened of the consequences this time around as it leaves Sony with what is essentially an uncontested monopoly in the traditional console space. I'm actually scared about what this means for PlayStation too, not because I'm worried about them making moves to make more acquisitions than they might have otherwise, or to take advantage of the market in some way, but simply because lack of competition is bad - very bad - in a space like this. We've already seen them take their foot off the throttle a bit this gen in a number of ways, but if they suddenly didn't have another box to compete with AND had some of Xbox's games coming to their platform? If nothing else, it begs for them to become complacent. I don't really want to see how that would play out. Also, as an aside: anyone else find it interesting that Jim Ryan is stepping down to retire around the same time all of this is going on? Yeah, yeah, it's a retirement and he's not getting Lucius Fox'd, but still... Edited February 5 by Julius 2 1
Dcubed Posted February 5 Posted February 5 The industry dynamics are really going to change quite dramatically if Xbox gives up being a console manufacturer, because each industry player will essentially be competing in their own distinct bubble. Sony will have the traditional AAA console market on total lockdown. Nintendo will be competing alone in the handheld/hybrid space alongside the burgeoning portable PC market. Valve have a mostly uncontested dominance in the PC space. Apple & Google maintain an oligopoly in the mobile sector. There will be very little crossover between competitors going forward. It’ll be as if the industry is largely siloed off into little fiefdoms.
drahkon Posted February 5 Posted February 5 (edited) 4 hours ago, Julius said: The honours...in terms of starting a topic or updating the console tags on certain topics about certain games? The honours of spreading the news. You're usually on top of these things 4 hours ago, Julius said: at the end of the day this is a multinational company that doesn't give a damn. I always thought their acquisitions in gaming are a kind of "look at our portfolio now" situation... I posted this a few times and I feel it's still apt: But then again...Xbox/MS aren't really doing much Edited February 5 by drahkon 1
Julius Posted February 5 Posted February 5 (edited) 25 minutes ago, drahkon said: The honours of spreading the news. You're usually on top of these things Oh, nah, busy weekend. By the time I started to see the news drop it had already ballooned, and when I checked back in a few hours later it had grown some legs and feet, too it's kind of crazy to see that there's constant news getting added to the story, though, and every single bit - true or not - seems more damaging than the last, and calls for clarification from Xbox even more. I'm also not a huge fan about this seemingly stemming from a disgruntled employee who isn't happy with these plans, it just leaves a bad taste. I totally get it, but this story is burying Xbox alive right now, despite not really being a move I'd question if I were on their side unless I cared about the whole "it's us vs them" of the console wars. Either way, if Xbox were smart, I think they'd address this by Wednesday at the latest. There's no way they can afford to wait as long as they had previously planned. Anyways, away from all this, Final Fantasy XIV Online is going to need both a Game Pass subscription and a XIV Online subscription to play the full release. Considering that PlayStation Plus isn't needed to play XIV Online on PlayStation and that this would benefit Square Enix in virtually no way, seems like Xbox would be the reason for this being the case. This is after people have waited YEARS for the game to come to the platform. Rough weekend for Xbox, huh? Edited February 5 by Julius
drahkon Posted February 5 Posted February 5 8 minutes ago, Julius said: Anyways, away from all this, Final Fantasy XIV Online is going to need both a Game Pass subscription and a XIV Online subscription to play the full release. Eh, this will be changed after some backlash. But right now this is the least of their problems. 8 minutes ago, Julius said: Oh, nah, busy weekend. By the time I started to see the news drop it had already ballooned, and when I checked back in a few hours later it had grown some legs and feet, too Fair enough
Choze Posted February 5 Posted February 5 The rumours are everywhere. No denials by MS. The Activision acquisition looks worse and worse by the day.
Cube Posted February 5 Posted February 5 10 hours ago, Julius said: I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who bought an Xbox this gen, I remember saying not too long back that the time to make a drastic move like this (be it shifting away from consoles or exclusives) should be at the start of the gen, not halfway through one. Not the loud ones who flame the console wars, mind. For me, it's Xbox or nothing. I'm not sure if the PS5 will ever get a price drop to a place where I can afford it. If there's no Series S equivalent next generation, I'll likely be shifting to getting second hand consoles when the generation after releases. 1
Choze Posted February 5 Posted February 5 (edited) Odds are other companies will look at getting into the console market if this is confirmed. MS were the main reason companies like Samsung and Nintendo opted out. No one wants to touch an industry once large tech companies settle in. Sony doing well is a bit of an anomaly. The games side is easier and more profitable. I hope the industry can recover from the massive amount of consolidation. Tech companies should get more pressure to demonstrate the value they create. More importantly positive value and not just leeching off the world. Technological Innovation is quite slow nowadays compared to the past. Edited February 5 by Choze
Julius Posted February 5 Posted February 5 (edited) The list continues to grow: Gears of War is apparently being considered (reported by Jeff Grubb). So the list of games people are touting as being in the discussion to come to other platforms (with their original sources, or as close I could get to it) is currently standing at: Quote • Hi-Fi Rush [rumoured Q1] (reported by Nate Drake 05/01) • Sea of Thieves (reported by Jeff Grubb 08/01) • Halo (reported by Jez Corden 04/02) • Starfield [planned for after Shattered Point expansion launch] (reported by XboxEra 04/02) • Indiana Jones and The Great Circle (reported by Tom Warren/The Verge 04/02) • Hellblade II (reported by Shpeshal_Nick) • Gears of War (reported by Jeff Grubb) Obviously, some, like Hi-Fi Rush, seem to be much further along than others, what with more hard evidence being found since that initial news drop by NateDrake. And some of these are going to be bogus or early on in discussion, but still, that seems to be the list for now. But obviously, people are saying there's more to come. Feels like I'm watching people dance on someone's grave, this all feels pretty surreal (and wrong). And Xbox currently seem to have no intention in butting in to take control of the narrative. Edited February 5 by Julius 1
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