Playstation 5 Console Discussion

[Dcubed]

On 20/12/2023 at 9:46 PM, Hero-of-Time said:

Reading the PS thread on Era and some are suggesting that if a studio is getting closed down then Media Molocule has to be high on the list. Gotta agree with that guess. Their games aren't big sellers and Dreams seemed to have be a big flop for them, especially given how long it took to develop.

You weren't far off.  It's a British studio alright, but it's not Media Molecule getting the axe... it's London Studio.

This seems crazy to me.  London Studio have always been a reliable workhorse, even though they've recently been lumped onto Move/VR projects, consistently putting out solid projects that make use of the full hardware capabilities of their respective Playstation consoles.  Singstar was always a huge series for them as well! How can they justify shutting down London Studio while choosing to keep Media Molecule running!?

Edit: Firesprite are getting hit by the layoffs too... including a cancelled Twisted Metal game that was in development...

... ironically, probably the one Sony IP that was a natural fit for the online multiplayer GAAS model!

Edited February 27 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

2 hours ago, drahkon said:

Yeesh...the industry is in a bad place...

Moe/Nintendo by like...

In all seriousness though, this is Iwata's warning coming around for a second shot. He warned about high development costs when HD development started, causing many layoffs and developers to close their doors. What we are seeing here is history repeat itself, except this time we have the added bonus of an oversaturation of games on the market.

Let's be honest, did we really need the PS5 and Xbox Series X? Not really. Yes, it's nice to have faster loading times but neither of these consoles have justified their existence in my eyes. The fact that so many games are still being made for the PS4 adds weight to this argument. It still feels like these consoles have yet to get off the ground and we have both Sony and Microsoft talking about their next offerings. It's nuts.

As someone who was born in 82, I got to see developers push things like the C64 and NES to the limits and also find creative ways around the limitations of these machines. How many of the consoles in recent years have been able to punch above their weight thanks to developers thinking outside the box or creating a game with limitations in mind? Not many and this was probably due to them not having the time to get to grips with the machines before the next one was announced.

[bob]

Moe/Nintendo by like...






In all seriousness though, this is Iwata's warning coming around for a second shot. He warned about high development costs when HD development started, causing many layoffs and developers to close their doors. What we are seeing here is history repeat itself, except this time we have the added bonus of an oversaturation of games on the market.
Let's be honest, did we really need the PS5 and Xbox Series X? Not really. Yes, it's nice to have faster loading times but neither of these consoles have justified their existence in my eyes. The fact that so many games are still being made for the PS4 adds weight to this argument. It still feels like these consoles have yet to get off the ground and we have both Sony and Microsoft talking about their next offerings. It's nuts.
As someone who was born in 82, I got to see developers push things like the C64 and NES to the limits and also find creative ways around the limitations of these machines. How many of the consoles in recent years have been able to punch above their weight thanks to developers thinking outside the box or creating a game with limitations in mind? Not many and this was probably due to them not having the time to get to grips with the machines before the next one was announced.

Surely it's better if there aren't barriers to being able to develop for a console? If it means more developers are able to bring their games to a console without having to code workarounds, isn't that a good thing?

[Hero-of-Time]

It depends on what you mean by barriers. There's nothing wrong with making consoles easier to develop for but these newer consoles aren't giving developers the chance to push them to their limits.

Back in the early days of console gaming developers could make multiple games due to how quick and easy it was. Each time they made a game they learnt new things which were then implemented in their next games. We aren't seeing that anymore because game development has become such a time consuming affair due to how big games have got. Most developers will only get a couple of AAA style games out per generation. Insomniac are the exception and not the norm. 

[Hero-of-Time]

Looks like Media Molecule were part of the conversation about closures.

Guess the flipped a coin to decide which UK studio got shuttered.

In similar news, Harada has spoke about the cost of development and resources needed to make the latest Tekken game.

For costs to have nearly tripled from one console to the next is mind blowing.

[Dcubed]

The thing is... Tekken 8's increase in budget was entierly of his own doing.  Nobody forced him to spend exponentially more on Tekken 8 than what was spent on Tekken 7.  People would probably have been just as happy with seeing a game with a similar level of visual fidelity as seen in Tekken 7, just with better resolution and performance.  Hell, the gameplay would've been better off for it; making it clearer and easier to read with better image quality, a more stable framerate (perhaps even a 120FPS mode for the super hardcore FGC enthusiasts), faster loading times and less visual fluff in way of the actual fighting gameplay.

And to take another example from the Harada book... Tales of Arise.  Its big selling point was that it was a big dick AAA budget expensive looking take on the Tales series; given 5+ years of development time.  Yet it barely outsold the previous "disappointing" series entry, Tales of Beseria; despite having orders of magnitude higher budget.

Instead of having these games release in a reasonable timeframe, made much cheaper with more focus on gameplay depth & content and "good enough" visuals, Harada is more interested in playing Keeping Up With The Kardashians for the sake of his own ego.

In a world where affordably made games like Balatro or Palworld can become a runaway hit, the only person to blame for your own mismanaged budgets is yourself as Producer.

Edited February 28 by Dcubed

[Hero-of-Time]

1 hour ago, Dcubed said:

Instead of having these games release in a reasonable timeframe, made much cheaper with more focus on gameplay depth & content and "good enough" visuals, Harada is more interested in playing Keeping Up With The Kardashians for the sake of his own ego.

In a world where affordably made games like Balatro or Palworld can become a runaway hit, the only person to blame for your own mismanaged budgets is yourself as Producer.

It's not just Harada though, it's most of the industry, which is why it's in the position it's in right now. 

The problem with examples such as Balatro and Palworld is that getting that kind of hit requires a fair bit of luck. A few indie developers on Era have spoke about just how hard it is now to get a break out hit. You could create the best indie game in the world and still not sell well because the market is so flooded. Not to mention that development costs have also gone through the roof for indie developers as well. In an ideal world the cream would rise to the top but it just ain't happening for a lot of developers.

[Dcubed]

10 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

It's not just Harada though, it's most of the industry, which is why it's in the position it's in right now. 

The problem with examples such as Balatro and Palworld is that getting that kind of hit requires a fair bit of luck. A few indie developers on Era have spoke about just how hard it is now to get a break out hit. You could create the best indie game in the world and still not sell well because the market is so flooded. Not to mention that development costs have also gone through the roof for indie developers as well. In an ideal world the cream would rise to the top but it just ain't happening for a lot of developers.

Same thing could be said about every video game sector, be it indie, mobile F2P, PC MMORPG or AAA console release.  Luck plays a huge role no matter which sector you work in.

Your risk is going to be a hell of a lot lower with a realistic, reigned in budget however.  And as has been shown countless times, budget has no direct correlation to your chances of success.  The only thing that does actually directly correlate with budget is your punishment for failure.

Now.  There is something to be said about a healthy rise in budget for a sequel to a game that has already been a success, but a 3x multiplier is certainly anything but healthy; especially when you have the luxury of having a ready-made game that you can build on top of and liberally pluck ready-made assets from.  That is overspend for overspend’s sake.

Spiderman 2 is another fine example of the exact same overspend.  If you were to look at the game side by side with its predecessor, would you have any idea that the sequel cost 3x as much to make? Even though it reuses the same engine and most of the same world map? I certainly can’t see it represented in the end product.

Edited February 28 by Dcubed

[drahkon]

I don't understand the problem...simply create infinite sequels for Slay the Spire and Balatro and the industry is saved

Edited February 28 by drahkon

[Glen-i]

21 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

The problem with examples such as Balatro and Palworld is that getting that kind of hit requires a fair bit of luck.

Helps cut down on costs if you nick models from another game, to be fair.

[Hero-of-Time]

Eurogamer has an article about what's been going on at Firesprite.

https://www.eurogamer.net/sony-studio-firesprite-has-been-shedding-talent-amidst-accusations-of-toxic-culture-staff-say

Not a good look.

[Choze]

Sad to see. My take is these lay-offs would have happened even if the last quarterly results were good. Look at Helldivers 2 success.

Sony is no stranger to this stuff. Affects morale and quality.

The main thing is I hope people end up OK. There needs to be more ways for these people to contribute to gaming.

[Hero-of-Time]

1 hour ago, Choze said:

Sad to see. My take is these lay-offs would have happened even if the last quarterly results were good. Look at Helldivers 2 success.

Sony is no stranger to this stuff. Affects morale and quality.

The main thing is I hope people end up OK. There needs to be more ways for these people to contribute to gaming.

That right here is the problem. If a product is a success and sells well then layoffs shouldn't even be on the cards but that just isn't happening in the gaming industry. It goes back to very old episode of the Jimquisition where he said the company/shareholders don't just want money but rather they want all the money.

To be fair, the article isn't so much about the layoffs but rather how Sony have handled things since coming in.

I'm very happy to see Helldivers 2 do so well and I had honestly wrote it off and expected it to bomb. However, the game took what, 5-6 years to make? Had it bombed then I imagine the studio would have really struggled to continue. This is where we are at with the industry, where if 1 release fails to meet expectations it could potentially kill a studio.

[Choze]

On 01/03/2024 at 7:14 AM, Hero-of-Time said:

That right here is the problem. If a product is a success and sells well then layoffs shouldn't even be on the cards but that just isn't happening in the gaming industry. It goes back to very old episode of the Jimquisition where he said the company/shareholders don't just want money but rather they want all the money.

To be fair, the article isn't so much about the layoffs but rather how Sony have handled things since coming in.

I'm very happy to see Helldivers 2 do so well and I had honestly wrote it off and expected it to bomb. However, the game took what, 5-6 years to make? Had it bombed then I imagine the studio would have really struggled to continue. This is where we are at with the industry, where if 1 release fails to meet expectations it could potentially kill a studio.

The status quo is this extremity that is actually exceptional historically (Millennials and gen z only know this status quo). Eventually, nothing can actually function on this path.

Lots of companies are doing lay-offs and using other means to shed workers. Removing work from home to excessive rules/culture to outsourcing etc.

[Hero-of-Time]

https://wccftech.com/gravity-rush-2-remastered-pc-ps5-summer/

Baffling, if true. The franchise is very niche and doesn't bring in new players. Not to mention that the sequel is way worse than the original. Gamers have been screaming for a Bloodborne update/remaster/remake and this is what they get instead. 

[Sheikah]

https://wccftech.com/gravity-rush-2-remastered-pc-ps5-summer/

Baffling, if true. The franchise is very niche and doesn't bring in new players. Not to mention that the sequel is way worse than the original. Gamers have been screaming for a Bloodborne update/remaster/remake and this is what they get instead.

They're playing the long game with Bloodborne I reckon. I think it could be a PS6 launch game, like Demon's Souls was for PS5.

[Julius]

4 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

https://wccftech.com/gravity-rush-2-remastered-pc-ps5-summer/

Baffling, if true. The franchise is very niche and doesn't bring in new players. Not to mention that the sequel is way worse than the original. 

Absolutely insane if true. Like you say, it's a niche franchise, and 2 is a sequel to an already very niche game, so I imagine it has even fewer fans than the first does. That you say it's worse than the original makes it an even more confusing move. 

The only reason they're doing this is because of the film, I guarantee it, and even that being in the works is a bizarre move considering, again, the IP being so niche. That they're remastering 2 as opposed to the first game though...were there any glaring technical issues with 2 compared to the first game?

The only other thing I can think of is that the first game was already remastered from Vita to PS4 and that's they're justification? But I think it's the film. 

More importantly, what a slap in the face to Japan Studio. Closed up shop because...? And then revive one of their niche IP with a film adaptation and a remaster.

Please, for the love of all that is holy, don't make a Shadow of the Colossus TV show or film...

3 hours ago, Sheikah said:

They're playing the long game with Bloodborne I reckon. I think it could be a PS6 launch game, like Demon's Souls was for PS5.

This could totally fall into the launch window of the PS6 too, but I think they're waiting on the film more than anything else; work on a Bloodborne movie has been kicking around for years at this point and I think there were more solid rumours just a couple of months ago about who was working on it. 

Sony seems interested in pulling a reverse of game licensing like we had in the PS2 era and are basically looking for more synergy between their film and game arms, from the looks of things; yeah I'm groaning audibly about this and think it's a terrible idea too. I mean, we've had HBO's TLOU release not too far off from a remake of Part I and a remaster of Part II, Guerrilla have been working on a bunch of Horizon projects so one will surely be tied to the release of the show in some way, God of War is getting adapted too, the list goes on and on. 

These are weird times for PlayStation, that's for sure. 

[EEVILMURRAY]

Just got Jedi Fallen Order for £5.50 on ze store. Not bad I thought 

[Julius]

Insider Gaming yesterday reported on the PS5 Pro specs which have been floating around for a while now, with some additional details: 

Quote

Today's leaked documents also confirmed:

• Rendering 45% faster than PS5
• 2-3x Ray-tracing (x4 in some cases)
• 33.5 Teraflops
• PSSR (PlayStation Spectral Super Resolution Upscaling) upscaling/antialiasing solution
• Support for resolutions up to 8K is planned for future SDK version
• Custom machine learning architecture
• AI Accelerator, supporting 300 TOPS of 8 bit computation / 67 TFLOPS of 16-bit floating point

Insider Gaming, who was also shared documentation from the developer portal under the condition that it's not shared publicly or privately can also confirm that Devkits have been available to first-party studios since September 2023, third-party since January 2024, and from Spring 2024 Testkits will also be available which will be identical to the final product.

And, kind of hilariously, they think the Pro could end up being pushed out of this year into next with no major upcoming first-party games on the horizon: 

Quote

Insider Gaming understands that the PS5 Pro is currently aiming for a tentative holiday 2024 release, but the date could be changed due to the lack of first-party games released on the PlayStation 5 this year.

Where do you guys land on the Pro at the moment? For me, I think it's a pretty easy pass; as we've touched on plenty of times before, this gen only really now feels like it's starting to kick in, with so few true next-gen experiences up to this point. I think the only way I'd get a Pro would be if it was the only way to get 30th anniversary themed plates and controllers, but I have to imagine they'll be sold separately anyways, so 

[Hero-of-Time]

Yeah, easy pass for me. Developers have yet to get the most out on the standard model never mind an upgraded version. 

I generally don't bother with such mid generation upgrades anyway. I got a PS4 Pro due to my normal one eventually sounding like a jet engine and I never upgraded my Switch to OLED either.

[Dcubed]

I fear for the price tag… considering the current rate of price inflation on all electronics, and the fact that we’ve seen the first ever console price increase post launch with the current PS5? This is gonna get ugly…

$699+/£599.99+ is quite possible…

[CrowingJoe79]

Oh, yes. 

Wednesday ought to be fun...

 

[killthenet]

4 hours ago, Dcubed said:

$699+/£599.99+ is quite possible…

I think it might be even more expensive than that

[EEVILMURRAY]

On 3/16/2024 at 3:51 PM, Hero-of-Time said:

Yeah, easy pass for me. Developers have yet to get the most out on the standard model never mind an upgraded version. 

I generally don't bother with such mid generation upgrades anyway. I got a PS4 Pro due to my normal one eventually sounding like a jet engine and I never upgraded my Switch to OLED either.

Same here, the only exception is going for the 3DS XL. But I wouldn't bother shelling out for the home console  "pro" versions. The Switch is on the TV anyways, I've not had the need to pay for extra screen quality etc.

[Sheikah]

Whether I get one would depend on whether they start a trade in initiative like they did with the PS4 Pro. As I recall it was something like £130 for a new PS4 Pro if you traded in your old PS4 but it came with a physical copy of FIFA which just released and I got £50 for it. Can't see them being that generous this time!