Playstation 5 Console Discussion

[Sheikah]

TLOU 2 got delayed till May 29th (and apparently Ghosts of Tsushima also got delayed internally)
 
https://www.resetera.com/threads/jason-schreier-kotaku-the-last-of-us-part-ii-delayed-to-spring-may-29th-2020.148939/
 
I honestly don’t see why they should bother releasing them on PS4 at this point.  Why not just port them over to PS5 and make them launch titles? Hell, they could still have them as cross-gen releases! It makes no sense to release TLOU on PS4 just 6 months before the PS5 launch date (and GOT might not even land on PS4 before PS5 even launches now!).
 
The less said about Dreams as well, the better.
 
Edit: Looks like Ubisoft are getting in on the delay action...
 
https://www.resetera.com/threads/ubisoft-delays-watch-dogs-legion-rainbow-six-quarantine-and-gods-monsters-to-the-next-fiscal-year.148968/
 
If these don’t all become PS5 launch titles now? I’ll eat a PS4 controller.

What's the point in that, it's still been developed for PS4 so it will look and feel like a PS4 game even if it gets released as a PS5 game.

No point delaying it further, going back on their word about it being a PS4 title, pissing off the fan base and restricting its sale to new PS5 customers. Besides, PS5 gamers can still play it because PS5 will be PS4 backwards compatible.

[Sheikah]

It's so that they can release it on PS4, get tons of people playing it, then release a next gen version 6-12 months into the PS5 life.

PS5 is PS4 backwards compatible, so PS5 owners will still be able to play it.

[Ronnie]

2 hours ago, Sheikah said:

4 hours ago, Ronnie said:

It's so that they can release it on PS4, get tons of people playing it, then release a next gen version 6-12 months into the PS5 life.

PS5 is PS4 backwards compatible, so PS5 owners will still be able to play it.

Probably, you would hope so by now that they would have figured it out. I know a recent interview has it as fully compatible, but I'll wait and see till it's officially revealed.

Doesn't stop them releasing an updated GOTY Edition for PS5 owners anyway.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Ronnie

[Sheikah]

Probably, you would hope so by now that they would have figured it out. I know a recent interview has it as fully compatible, but I'll wait and see till it's officially revealed.
Doesn't stop them releasing an updated GOTY Edition for PS5 owners anyway.

If they do release it again later that's fine, no different from what they have some with games like Witcher 3. PS4 backwards compatibility on PS5 means that the "spank them twice" attitude won't really fly, if you're able to pop the same disk in the PS5 then a lot of the drive to buy the game again goes out the window.

[Dcubed]

13 hours ago, Sheikah said:

What's the point in that, it's still been developed for PS4 so it will look and feel like a PS4 game even if it gets released as a PS5 game.

No point delaying it further, going back on their word about it being a PS4 title, pissing off the fan base and restricting its sale to new PS5 customers. Besides, PS5 gamers can still play it because PS5 will be PS4 backwards compatible.

Because it would give them a killer exclusive on day 1 to sell their shiny new, super expensive console?

 

Doesn't even have to be PS5 exclusive.  Could be a day-and-date cross-generation release ALA BOTW/Twilight Princess.  The potential ramifications on PS5 launch sales (which is of course, priority No1 for Sony right now) are obvious.  It seems like a no-brainer move and ignoring the obvious benefits of this move seems like a huge mistake to me... Especially seeing as how TLOU 2 will be launching just a few months before the PS5 now (and GOT probably not even launching until AFTER the PS5 now!)

 

And even BC wouldn't stop it from being a huge deal on day 1; just look at Twilight Princess.  The GCN version was playable on Wii, but the Wii version still ended up vastly outselling its GCN counterpart (despite the Wii being much more expensive than the GCN was at the time, and despite the Wii being almost impossible to buy for two whole years!).  Sony are throwing away a big potential hardware mover at a time when they really need to be pushing out PS5 consoles as fast as possible.

 

I'm telling you, if the price is as high as we are all expecting it to be, this console is gonna really struggle out of the gate; especially if Sony are throwing away potential opportunities like this with their late game PS4 titles...

Edited October 25, 2019 by Dcubed

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, Dcubed said:

I'm telling you, if the price is as high as we are all expecting it to be, this console is gonna really struggle out of the gate; especially if Sony are throwing away potential opportunities like this with their late game PS4 titles...

I'm not expecting it to be a high price at all. I'm thinking £350-400. Certainly not the 600-700 you mentioned recently.

[Sheikah]

1 hour ago, Dcubed said:

Because it would give them a killer exclusive on day 1 to sell their shiny new, super expensive console?

Doesn't even have to be PS5 exclusive.  Could be a day-and-date cross-generation release ALA BOTW/Twilight Princess.

But with Twilight Princess, the Wii version used motion controls and the Gamecube one didn't, and this was before console patches. Here there is not much point in having separate versions. PS5 will have PS4 backwards compatibility so it would make more sense for them to have one game that runs differently between consoles. And if it does come out on PS4 as scheduled, with the PS4 having backwards compatibility, anyone who bought it on PS4 already isn't likely to buy it again 3 months later or so if their new console still runs the disc.

Also, having a killer exclusive to sell your console is Nintendo's style, not Sony's. Neither PS3 or PS4 had a killer exclusive at launch. They don't need it. Sony work by being the best at what they do in the long run.

Quote

 The potential ramifications on PS5 launch sales (which is of course, priority No1 for Sony right now) are obvious.  It seems like a no-brainer move and ignoring the obvious benefits of this move seems like a huge mistake to me... Especially seeing as how TLOU 2 will be launching just a few months before the PS5 now (and GOT probably not even launching until AFTER the PS5 now!)

If it's such a no brainer then why did the exact same thing happen with PS3 (TLOU released on PS3 a few months before the release of the PS4)? The install base of PS4 is much bigger than what PS5 will be on day 1, so from a developer's point of view they want to sell to as many people as possible.

Quote

And even BC wouldn't stop it from being a huge deal on day 1; just look at Twilight Princess.  The GCN version was playable on Wii, but the Wii version still ended up vastly outselling its GCN counterpart (despite the Wii being much more expensive than the GCN was at the time, and despite the Wii being almost impossible to buy for two whole years!).  Sony are throwing away a big potential hardware mover at a time when they really need to be pushing out PS5 consoles as fast as possible.

That's because Gamecube was a poorly performing console, whereas Wii was lightning in a bottle and people were enraptured by motion controls at the time. A lot of people would still buy TLOU2 on PS5 if there was a separate version, because a lot of people buy consoles at launch and need games to play, but the situation isn't the same as your example.

Quote

I'm telling you, if the price is as high as we are all expecting it to be, this console is gonna really struggle out of the gate; especially if Sony are throwing away potential opportunities like this with their late game PS4 titles...

I disagree. I think people are ready to buy a console on the slightly pricier side, as the mid-generation consoles have shown us. People do spend more on phones and gadgets these days. Ultimately if they can show games loading in a twentieth of the time (or whatever Cerny demonstrated) then I think that would justify the cost. I don't mind paying more than the standard console price if it's worth it. This system has to last us 7 years, after all.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Sheikah

[Sheikah]

11 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I'm not expecting it to be a high price at all. I'm thinking £350-400. Certainly not the 600-700 you mentioned recently.

I think 450 - 500 is fine, similar to what the Xbox One X was. PS3 launched at 425 back in 2007 so compared to that price it would be practically a steal.

[Ronnie]

6 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

PS3 launched at 425 back in 2007

PS3 was also ridiculed for its price. I think they'll have learned their lesson from this infamous moment

[Dcubed]

42 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I'm not expecting it to be a high price at all. I'm thinking £350-400. Certainly not the 600-700 you mentioned recently.

In that case you have no grasp of reality then.  That price is literally impossible.  The NVME SSD alone will cost around £150-200... never mind the rest of the hardware...

 

Hell, the Xbox One X is STILL retailing for $499.99/£449.99.  $499.99 is the absolute minimum that the PS5 will cost (and that's an absolute Hail-Mary!)

31 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

But with Twilight Princess, the Wii version used motion controls and the Gamecube one didn't, and this was before console patches. Here there is no point in that. PS5 will have PS4 backwards compatibility so it doesn't really make sense to have two versions released on the same day. More likely the PS5 will run the game at higher resolution/framerate with quicker loading.

Then they're missing out on the opportunity to use the game as a way of selling people on upgrading their hardware to play the better version of the game.  By the time the PS5 launches, the game will be old hat and already circulating bargain bins as people look to newer and shinier games.

Quote

Also having a killer exclusive to sell your console is Nintendo's style, not Sony's. Neither PS3 or PS4 had a killer exclusive at launch. They don't need it. Sony work by being the best at what they do in the long run.

 

If it's such a no brainer then why did the exact same thing happen with PS3 (TLOU released on PS3 a few months before the release of the PS4)? The install base of PS4 is much bigger than what PS5 will be on day 1, so from a developer's point of view they want to sell to as many people as possible.

Different situations and different times.  Sony wasn't nearly as reliant on 1st party games back then as they are now.  The PS4 also won by default, with the Wii U already having cratered and Sony getting very lucky with Microsoft shooting themselves in the foot with their hardware choices (which they surely had some insider tips about) and their always-online DRM disasterpiece.  That lucky scenario will not be repeating itself this time around.

 

2013 is not 2020.  Exclusive content matters so much more now; and streaming services now lead the way.  Netflix earned its success off the back of its original shows and now Sony relies much more heavily on its own first party heavy hitters than ever before in their history.  Taking a lackadaisical attitude towards your new console launch and expecting things to play out as they did before is exactly what they shouldn't be doing...

Quote

That's because Gamecube was a poorly performing console, whereas Wii was lightning in a bottle and people were enraptured by motion controls at the time. A lot of people would still buy TLOU2 on PS5 if there was a separate version, because a lot of people buy consoles at launch and need games to play, but the situation isn't the same as your example.

Agreed.  It's not exactly the same as it was before for Nintendo, but then the onus is on Sony to give people a reason to upgrade.  If the graphical upgrade isn't enough, then PS5 needs to bring something else to the table to make it worthwhile... It's still on them to lead the way and right now, they will have no major first party games ready for release alongside the PS5.  Going by their current developer schedule, none of their first party studios are due to release anything within the next year (except for Naughty Dog and Sucker Punch... too bad their games aren't releasing on PS5...).  Their only options for a first party release on PS5 right now are Bluepoint (who are almost certainly working on Demon Souls Remastered; there's a bit of irony for you) and maybe something from Japan Studio (who are a bit of a hot mess right now); though I suppose it's also possible that Insomniac might have something for launch as well, but considering that they only just acquired them? That's not terribly likely.

Sony needs major first party exclusives to entice people to upgrade.  As things stand, they will not have any.  That is a big problem in a time now where exclusives are what really matter.

Quote

I disagree. I think people are ready to buy a console on the slightly pricier side, as the mid-generation consoles have shown us. People do spend more on phones and gadgets these days. Ultimately if they can show games loading in a twentieth of the time (or whatever Cerny demonstrated) then I think that would justify the cost. I don't mind paying more than the standard console price if it's worth it. This system has to last us 7 years, after all.

I do agree that people have been desensitised to higher prices thanks to the smartphone market.  But without an incentive to upgrade? Why would they bother?

 

And if they don't explode out of the gate? Then that's gonna discourage developers from jumping on board early... which then exacerbates the problem (chicken and egg scenario).

 

It's not 2013 anymore.  That kind of thinking is long out of date.  Sony need to adjust to the current reality.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Dcubed

[drahkon]

I'm always amazed at how much insight into companies/businesses you lot have. This is not meant as a slight. 

From what I've read about the PS5 and considering the news about some heavy hitters on PS4 being delayed closer to the new console's suppoed launch I cannot deduce anything regarding Sony moving forward.

This is pretty much me right now when it comes to the PS5:

Edited October 25, 2019 by drahkon

[Ronnie]

6 minutes ago, drahkon said:

That's me at the inference Sony buys its SSDs from Amazon

[bob]

Consoles will all be sold at a loss now, as manufacturers will want people to buy them and then sign up for the online subscription anyway.

The offline experience will become so borked that you are basically forced to sign up, and that where they'll make their money. (You can include PSNow and Gamepass to this).

[Sheikah]

1 hour ago, Dcubed said:

Then they're missing out on the opportunity to use the game as a way of selling people on upgrading their hardware to play the better version of the game.  By the time the PS5 launches, the game will be old hat and already circulating bargain bins as people look to newer and shinier games.

Different situations and different times.  Sony wasn't nearly as reliant on 1st party games back then as they are now.  The PS4 also won by default, with the Wii U already having cratered and Sony getting very lucky with Microsoft shooting themselves in the foot with their hardware choices (which they surely had some insider tips about) and their always-online DRM disasterpiece.  That lucky scenario will not be repeating itself this time around.

But as stated, Sony have never needed to do this, people buy Sony consoles knowing it will be their main console for years to come, and that there are the sorts of games they want to buy on it. Annoying people who are waiting for the PS4 version by delaying it to tie in with the PS5 launch would not go down well with gamers, and it's questionable how much it would benefit from being a PS5 exclusive given how it was developed for PS4.

Quote

2013 is not 2020.  Exclusive content matters so much more now; and streaming services now lead the way.  Netflix earned its success off the back of its original shows and now Sony relies much more heavily on its own first party heavy hitters.  Taking a lackadaisical attitude towards your new console launch and expecting things to play out as they did before is exactly what they shouldn't be doing...

Sony will still have those exclusives whether they are there at launch or not. Sony have never really had strong launches and yet always seem to be successful, I don't think Nintendo's approach is necessarily right or needed for them. Console gamers will ultimately end up upgrading to continue to buy games for the next 7 years.

Quote

Agreed.  It's not exactly the same as it was before for Nintendo, but then the onus is on Sony to give people a reason to upgrade.  If the graphical upgrade isn't enough, then PS5 needs to bring something else to the table to make it worthwhile... It's still on them to lead the way and right now, they will have no major first party games ready for release alongside the PS5.

Again no different from the norm then.

Quote

Sony needs major first party exclusives to entice people to upgrade.  As things stand, they will not have any.  That is a big problem in a time now where exclusives are what really matter.

The natural course of time and gradual movement away from past generations entices people to upgrade. The real question is, what will cause PS4 owners to switch to an X2 rather than a PS5? From Sony's point of view, they've developed some really good exclusives on PS4 and people know if they want the inevitable sequels they will need a PS5. That is a very strong position to be in.

Quote

I do agree that people have been desensitised to higher prices thanks to the smartphone market.  But without an incentive to upgrade? Why would they bother?

Well with the several fold decrease in loading times I think that could be a very big reason to upgrade, as well as the inevitable improvements in graphics.

Quote

And if they don't explode out of the gate? Then that's gonna discourage developers from jumping on board early... which then exacerbates the problem (chicken and egg scenario).

Again, when have Sony ever exploded out of the gate?

Edited October 25, 2019 by Sheikah

[drahkon]

Quote

Sony's own studios and 3rd parties lining up PS5 games that "will satisfy game fans"

Ah yes. Knack 3, baaabbyyyy!! Another mastahpiece on the way.

[Dcubed]

Called it 

[Hero-of-Time]

Bluepoint be trolling. I'm guessing two of the games that they hint at here are what they are working on.

We've got Symphony of the Night, Resistance, Metal Gear Solid, Legend of Dragoon, Demon Souls and Syphon Filter. 

Any of those would be a winner.

[Hero-of-Time]

 

[Hero-of-Time]

Bluepoint are teasing again.

I love that they are essentially just winding Era up with this tweet.  

[Happenstance]

26 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Bluepoint are teasing again.

I love that they are essentially just winding Era up with this tweet.  

Shenmue 4 PS5 exclusive confirmed

[Hero-of-Time]

 

[drahkon]

"Hey, the thing I'm making...man, I'm so proud of it. Wanna know what it is? TOUGH LUCK, BITCH! Not telling you!.

JUST TELL US.  

[bob]

I reckon it's a game.

[Julius]

Official PS5 logo from CES:

And a pretty clean image detailing the little we know about the PS5's hardware so far:

[drahkon]

Sorry, folks. Console gaming is dead.